Let me start off by saying I HATE SNOW !! I HATE IT!! I hate shoveling that cold wet white powder that impedes my progress when it just lies there on the road, making grown men drive like elderly women on their way to Sunday mass. I hate the fact that these little snot nosed punks with their Yankee gear on try to extort me to shovel my walkway and when I say thanks but no thanks in a polite manner I can hear them ridicule the Mets hat that I am wearing. And then I thought to myself this is a kind of a metaphor for being a Mets fan. You see to be a Mets fan is for the most part akin to be stuck in a blizzard, You are being beat down by the elements ( the wind, the snow, the freezing cold ) and when you are in the middle of white out conditions, you don’t know which direction will lead you home ( just ask Ryan Church! ). But there is a positive ray of light tucked into the avalanche of negativity that started with a promise to construct a winning team, to missing out on some much needed free agent talent, to injuries and yesterdays icing on the cake moment of Citi Field bonds being downgraded to junk status ( Gordon Gekko where art thou?). The little germination of hope is that we are only a week away until pitcher and catchers report to spring training. Oh yeah and they expect snow to hit us here in New York again on Monday !!!
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            ” Will the Mets embrace their Underdog status – and can they help me dig my Jeep out?”
And on that note …. HERE’S COMES THE INFAMY !!!
Happy Birthday to “Jack of all Trades – Master of None” utility infielder – Tom Veryzer (1953) .
Utility infielder ,Steve Springer is 49 (1961) .
Back up first baseman for the ’05 team, Brian Daubach is 38 today (1972) .
New York Mets traded catching prospect Stan Hough and third base prospect Randy Rogers to the Houston Astros for catcher Bruce Bochy on February 11, 1981. Bochy wouldn’t stick on the Mets roster that long, only playing 17 games with the Mets until being released in ’83. He later on became a successful manager of both the San Diego Padres and San Francisco Giants.
New York Mets signed free agent utility man Jay Bell on February 11, 2003.He played in 72 games that year for the Mets at hit to the tune of .181 !!
New York Mets signed free agent reliever Ricky Bottalico on February 11, 2004.
New York Mets signed free agent Tony Armas Jr. of the Pittsburgh Pirates on February 11, 2008. They shoulda signed his father instead – you would have gotten the same results, only Tony Armas Sr would have come cheaper !!
And while you are digging your car out dreaming for warm weather , just remember – there are just 53 days until the Mets open the 2010 season against the Florida Marlins at Citi Field.
82 comments
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-8:36am at 8:36 am (UTC -4)
Ah, Rusty, we have yet another thing in common!
After my decade on the west coast, even though I grew up in NJ and somehow survived the winters in Vermont while in college, I now HATE snow! I hate it as much as I hate the Knicks and almost as much as I hate the Yankees. Eh, I guess I don’t hate the Phils as much as I hate snow…sorry TRS.
I must sheepishly confess that somehow up here in the Albany area, we were completely untouched by last weekend’s and the earlier huge storm, and got an inch yesterday….not sure how the hell that happened.
Nice Gordon Gekko reference….as for the upcoming season:
“Give me guys that are poor, smart, hungry – and no feelings. You win a few, you lose a few, but you keep on fighting. And if you need a friend, get a dog. It’s trench warfare out there, pal.”
But hey, Mike Jacobs is back—let’s break out the champagne!!
darknova306
2/11/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Where abouts around the Albany area are you? I was out in Troy for 6 years for school before moving out to western NY.
I love me some snow, which is why it’s extremely disappointing that the entire eastern seaboard has waaayyyy more snow that we do in Rochester.
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
I am in Saratoga, and we have almost nothing on the ground, which is bizarre….last year we were buried all winter, and while I do not miss the shoveling, we are going to have a drought this summer if we do not get some snow here!
I was in Rochester for the very first time at a music conference in December, and I was pleasantly surprised–a cool city with a lot going on and even found a great sushi place downtown!
stickguy
2/11/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
I have family in Amsterdam (and went to school in Schenectady). We go over every year on a Saturday in August for the track. nice little town.
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
My bro’s house where my office is, and where I post my weekday working hours comments, is about 5 blocks down the street from the track!
stickguy
2/11/2010-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
Then I quite likely walked past it.
Or paid $15 to park on the lawn. Quite the little industry some people in that town have going. All cash too.
ceetar
2/11/2010-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
I love the snow! I love snow days!
metsfan4decades
2/11/2010-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
I don’t hate snow. Just the hassle of having to remove it – LOL.
But…sorry Kingman, I hate the Phillies way more.
So, what do you all think of MC’s latest opinion on Pineiro?
‘the Mets dropped the ball with Joel Pineiro, it’s that simple… ‘
Not sure I agree with that statement and come on, nothing is ever simple with the Mets…..
prismo
2/11/2010-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
Most of the commenters didn’t agree either. I think Matt dropped the ball with his blog.
njstuckintx
2/11/2010-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
And you know when Piniero is 5-11 with a 4.88 ERA, there will be some poll stating “did the Met’s dodge a bullet or knew Piniero would pan out this way? A. Yes, B. No, C. Maybe, D. All of the above, E. Onions, F. None of the Above.”
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
E!
HA!
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
Sorry MF4D, I certainly do respect your Philly hatred! And I guess it is the cold I hate, not necessarily the snow.
Folks—the recent story about the Mets “not having the money for Torrealba” is almost certainly TOTALLY false and made up by Olney I think it was.
“Dropping the ball on Pineiro?” I refuse to read Cerrone’s high-school level utterances any more, but does he examine Pineiro’s career? Has anyone looked at what Pineiro did every year for five full years before his good year last year?
Matt is, as most of the folks here agree on, a person who is concerned with quantity, not quality. He writes “Mets have no money” and “Mets drop ball” stories, because he sees the Olneys, Klapishes, Francesspools, etc. doing it and being in high places making lots of money.
No matter what Pineiro does this year, having faith in a return to form of our young starters was a far better move than signing the perennial underachiever, and usually pretty lousy pitcher that Pineiro is.
It is like Marquis–Marquis has NEVER been in the top ten in ANY positive pitching category, and his career is littered with being in the top ten in every negative category, which is why team after team is thrilled to see him go. And we should have signed him because he is from the NY area?
OMG, can the games PLEASE start already??
Thank you, and have a nice day!!
metsfan4decades
2/11/2010-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
There I agree with you. I just cannot wrap my brain around the fact that the Mets didn’t get Torrealba b/c they’re broke. That just does not make sense, especially given the money they were going to give Molina and others, such as Pineiro.
For the record, I’m not the least bit upset that we didn’t get Pineiro. Lackey however, is another story…
prismo
2/11/2010-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
Well the story came out about the Mets not being able to sign Torrealba for a little under $2MM because they’re broke…but just a couple days later they sign Mike Jacobs to a deal that amount to about the same with incentives. So either they’re not broke and it’s just terrible reporting, or the Jacobs signing is fictitious.
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
HAHA! Wow, I did not even THINK of it that way, which makes this story even MORE inane!
Olney is a liar, and I have heard from several sources that he is unwelcome in several MLB clubhouses because he is so utterly dishonest.
njstuckintx
2/11/2010-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
I’d claim to be broke too if it meant I would not get Torrealba either! Yeah, these stories poor attempts to generate webhits/buzz in the dead time between the busy part of the offseason and pitchers and catchers. With all his access, he could be doing some indepth stuff on the stadium, new coaches and their philosophies, or something other than this. I officially boycotted that site about a month or 2 ago. I’ve decided to make obstinance and ignorance obsolete, except when I’m guilty of it!
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
“I’ve decided to make obstinance and ignorance obsolete, except when I’m guilty of it!”
Count me in on that!
LOL!
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
Agreed on all counts! Not to mention the grievance issue with Torrealba–would he even WANT to be a Met?
I know it may be hard to accept, but these reporters really are a bunch of liars trying to get attention.
Costa at the Star Ledger, the more I go over there, is a HUGE exception—he even regularly interacts with the commenters on his stories–one day he trashed the Los Mets people—man, that was cool!
I think, thougt, that it is entirely possible that Lackey just wanted to stay in the AL, and wanted to play for Boston….that really could be the case.
metsfan4decades
2/11/2010-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
I agree about Lackey. From everything I read, the Mets made some kind of initial contact. Were going to call back end of that week. Before that could happen, he signs with Boston.
Most agents would be contacting back teams that had interest, to see if they wanted to top Boston’s offer. Either Lackey told his agent not to bother, he wanted to sign with Boston – or the Mets said no thanks to topping the offer.
I’m inclined to go with the former. Lackey wanted to stay in the AL and with a chance to pitch for Boston, well it was an offer he did not want to pass up.
As far as reporters…back in the day, credibility meant everything. Now…not so much.
ceetar
2/11/2010-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
I was going with the latter actually. I assumed Omar told Lackey “We’ll negotiate price, but under no circumstances are we giving you that long a contract” Boston did, and Lackey went there.
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
I could see that.
And yes, I am in Catatonic Optimist mode for now, but as Lackey had injuries each of the last two years, perhaps this was not a bad move??
stickguy
2/11/2010-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
I was concerned about the combo of mileage on the arm and the forearm/elbow issues to start both of the last 2 seasons.
I know he came back mid-may and got through the rest of the year, but those just seemed to be red flags that screamed “pending TJ surgery” or some other elbow problem in the near future.
a 1 or 2 year deal? Sure. But 5 years, and probably being the only big signing of the off season? not so sure about that.
trs86
2/11/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Right, and what people forget is that most likely the Mets would have not only had to match but exceed the offer to get him to come to NY instead of Boston. Who knows what it would have taken.
I am just not sure it would have been wise at all to have that much money wrapped up in two pitchers both frankly having injury concerns. Imagine losing Lackey and Santana to TJ and missing 40M from your roster for a year.
GravediggerHebner
2/11/2010-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
Every pitcher, hell every athlete has injury concerns.
Imagine trying to convince your fanbase you’re a legitimate contender when the dropoff between your 1st and 2nd starting pitchers in both talent and salary is so precipitous. The talent dropoff is obvious and needs not be elaborated on, the salary dropoff is $21 million to $500,000.
You want a better shot at legit contention you bring in the necessary talent instead of being ruled by fear that a big contract is going on the DL.
If you’re unwilling or unable to spend the money necessary you damn well better develop the cheap talent yourself. So far, note the caveat so far, the Mets are 0-2 on the pay the expensive 2nd starter or develop the cheap one front.
trs86
2/11/2010-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
It’s not the one year cost Grave. It’s the 5 year cost. Taking a risk on one pitcher for 5 or more years is bad enough. For 2 pitchers in my opinion that is just not wise.
trs86
2/11/2010-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
But hey if it makes you feel better, the salary drop off between our #1 and #4 is not that bad.
trs86
2/11/2010-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
Check out this link. It’s from 2008, but I don’t think anything has changed. I don’t think it is a 100% knockout but it does raise some concerns.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/john_donovan/11/05/ccsabathia.longtermdeals/index.html
GravediggerHebner
2/11/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
I don’t even have to read the link to understand your point, which is a fair and reasonable one.
I just feel like a team has to provide the talent one way or the other and as I said above, so far, that hasn’t happened. It still can via either method (cash/development) I am not closed minded to that, as I’ve said for months now after the last few years and all the money already spent to not quite get there, I was just hoping for a bit more certainty. I’ve known for weeks now that I’m not going to get it the cash route before spring training, I’m going to have to hope it develops.
Mr North Jersey
2/11/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Grave once again articulated himself very well. I agree of course with Grave. The argument on the 5 year not the one year contract that TRS suggested is fair but then why did they sign Santana?
He too it had been rumored by teams that they were concerned with his arm and lack of velocity yet the Mets signed him.
You can find reasons not to sign any player as we have seen this off season. You want to win but don’t want to spend the money then you better develop your farm system.
The Mets prospect that comes closest to being a possible #2 is Pelfrey and right now it is not looking good if he can now if ever fill that hole.
trs86
2/11/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
See below, I am not sure signing Lackey to 5 years gives you that much more certainty.
trs86
2/11/2010-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
True there were rumors about Santana but at that point we needed an ace. I also think you can make a case that Johan is a MUCH better pitcher than Lackey. From the stats I collected so far it looks like the only sure 5+ year contracts (and even that is early) may be CC and Johan. They are the only 2 with 5 year contracts to be in the top 20 of SP for the last 3 years. Perhaps, next year Lackey joins that group. I also think it’s telling that only 2/7 pitched 200 innings last year.
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Santana and Lackey is an utterly meaningless comparison.
First, Santana is an ace, not a good number 2 or 3.
Santana was younger when we signed him.
In his 4-year career as a starter for Minnesota he threw 34, 33, 34, and 33 starts. Did he miss ONE start? Lackey missed a good chunk of the last two years.
NO arm injuries for Johan for years before we signed him, and the “rumors” about his “injuries” probably were about as valid as complete horse***t like “METS HAVE NO MONEY FOR TORREALBA” and “METS ABOUT TO SIGN MOLINA FOR MULTIPLE YEARS ANY SECOND” and “METS BLOW IT ON PINEIRO AND MARQUIS AND EVERYONE ELSE.”
Mr North Jersey
2/11/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
Is Lackey a Santana? I hope you don’t really think that I was trying to compare them?
The point is Reasons to not sign players to long term or even short term contracts are never in short supply.
Again we been over the Mets moves or lack thereof so I think we know my thoughts on that.
Now all we can do is wait and see if the Mets made the right moves.
trs86
2/11/2010-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Wow, accidentally woke up the sleeping giant. Sorry Kingman.
My OPINION, is that so far only CC and Johan are worth the 5 years. Again that’s based on my opinion using the stats I have looked at.
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
Actually TRS, I was totally responding to Mr North.
trs86
2/11/2010-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, I know. It’s just I think I most likely started it.
ceetar
2/11/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
I don’t understand why people think Pineiro decided “No thanks, I don’t care that the Mets may give me more millions of dollars if I wait a couple of days, I’ll just sign a contract now because I don’t feel like waiting.”
darknova306
2/11/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
“dropped the ball on Pineiro”?
Wow, the idiots out there are making me look like an optimist with these stupid comments.
Not getting Pineiro made no statement other than that the Mets weren’t interested enough to overpay and that he may have wanted to play elsewhere. Nothing in that situation showed anything negative about how the organization is run. I’m so sick of these things.
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
+ 1 million.
njstuckintx
2/11/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Jay Bell… man, that gave me the cold shivers. yikes.
stickguy
2/11/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
Saw this line over on MLBTR. Just had to post it. For some reason, I found it tremendously amusing.
12:37pm: Heyman now tweets that the Dodgers have “pulled out of the Wang derby.â€
CaseStreet
2/11/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
Pretty cool article by John Harper about catching Santana in a bullpen session.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2010/02/11/2010-02-11_almost_back_to_speed.html
metsfan4decades
2/11/2010-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
Loved this article. Thanks for the link, Case.
Johan: ‘”You have to outsmart hitters,” he says. “You have to have a game plan.”
Man, if he can only drill that into Ollie’s head…..
‘
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
You’re going to need a pretty big drill.
stickguy
2/11/2010-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
Piniero? The only logic to the “dropped the ball” comment (and what I think MC was getting at, but it is always hard to tell for sure) was that, while we mostly think he is not good, the Mets liked him and wanted him.
So, if the MEts did want him, and did make an offer, but couldn’t/wouldn’t get back to his agent when he came in with a counter offer (if that is turly how it all went down), then you could say the Mets dropped the ball.
Different idea entirely if the Mets did not really want him, or had made their final/last/best offer. Then no Castillo (short hand for dropping the ball) occured.
GravediggerHebner
2/11/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
I love snow! But I don’t live in a big city, or even a city at all and when I did I was always a renter so someone else was responsible for shoveling it. In the country the snow is not always light and fluffy but it is always white, not a mix of yellow and black, and going outside to shovel it is good exercise followed by delicious hot chocolate. The only thing I don’t like is having to find my decapitated mailbox-head in a snowbank and put it back on after speeding snow plows blow it off.
No snot nosed Yankee hat wearing kids are around to offer to shovel my driveway, but in general the ratio of baseball caps around here is roughly 25-1 Yankee-Met, so whenever I see another Met cap there is always a meaningful look and a quick thumbs up followed by “Lets go Mets!”
Bochy had one of the biggest heads I’ve ever seen. Still does.
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Nice stories and images!
OK, it is the cold I hate more than the snow…but I could deal with the Seattle or Las Vegas climate much easier than this semi-Arctic Capitol Region of good ole NY.
ceetar
2/11/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Vegas is harsh. But better that than SoCal or Florida. The hot and humid stuff wears on me after a while. Give me some real weather and not that stifleing heat crap.
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
True, but from about October till May, Vegas has amazing weather….July and August are indeed pretty damn hot.
One year I was there for July 4th and it was literally 116 degrees.
With or without humidity, that’s hot. I did manage, however, to stay close to pools and large drinks….and oh the eye candy at the pools….
GravediggerHebner
2/11/2010-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
I hear what both of you (Kong and Ceet) are saying. I don’t know why, I guess it’s because I was born and raised in the northeast, but I like having 4 distinct seasons. I make it through the winter because it’s only really 1/4 of the year, then spring, summer and fall (my personal favorite) follow.
Please lets not now escalate this into a discussion on climate change, fact or myth?
I’m late to the party have the Mets done anything noteworthy this morning?
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Grave, before I moved to Seattle in 1989 I felt precisely the same way about 4 seasons. But the west coast mostly has two seasons, summer, and the rest of the year. I am afraid to say that I prefer that. With the exception of fall–I do love the leaves falling and the feel of that time of year.
As for warming, I do not want to get banned, so I have NOOOOO comment.
metsfan4decades
2/11/2010-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Except for in this case, after the last two snowstorms within a week or so, it’s way past good exercise. This morning finds hubby and I fighting over pain pills and heat packs – LOL.
Betty Davis said it best: ‘Getting old ain’t for sissies’…..
darknova306
2/11/2010-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
I don’t mind the shoveling, and that’s after spending most of me life in or near NY’s snow belt. It’s a really good legs workout that lets me justify not going to the gym.
It’s really the commute to work that’s the rough part for me.
Either way, I could never live without having four distinct seasons.
Visiting some friends in Troy last weekend, I was immediately on the defensive as my Yankee and Red Sox friends started dumping on the Mets. But I defended us vigorously and drunkenly!
GravediggerHebner
2/11/2010-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
Vigorous and drunk are really a great combination for defense purposes.
stickguy
2/11/2010-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
Saw this blurb over on MC’s place (quoting Harper about Johan)
““I know this team is looking for me to lead the way, and I’m up to the challenge,†Santana told Harper. “That’s why they brought me here. We all know what happened last year… I really believe the pieces are in place, that you are going to see guys like Ollie and Pelfrey and Maine pitch at a high level this season… I believe we’ll have a great year.†”
Hey Kong, Looks like Pelf will have to slide over to make room for Santana on the “rotation is going to carry the team” bandwagon!
metsfan4decades
2/11/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
And I pulled a quote from Johan on that link you provided above too.
(Johan: â€You have to outsmart hitters,†he says. “You have to have a game plan.â€
Man, if he can only drill that into Ollie’s head…..)
Johan is the Man. He has the confidence necessary to win, in spades. When he talks, I don’t get the opinion it’s just platitudes he’s spitting out for the fan base. He believes in himself and sounds like he believes in that 1-4 rotation.
Can if really be? He’s an ace pitcher so he ought to know what he’s looking at when he mini evaluates other pitchers. Maybe, just maybe, we’ve got something to really look forward to……
GravediggerHebner
2/11/2010-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
I’m not going to pretend what kind of talent scout Santana might be but I do give him credit for speaking from experience. Here’s a glimpse at the post season pitching staffs he’s been a part of:
2002 – Rick Reed, Kyle Lohse, Eric Milton, Brad Radke, Santana
2003 – Radke, Lohse, Kenny Rogers, Reed, Joe Mays (Santana relieved 27 times, started 18)
2004 – Santana, Radke, Carlos Silva, Lohse, Terry Mulholland
2006 – Santana, Silva, Radke, Francisco Liriano, Boof Bonser
They are listed in order of most starts made, not necessarily order of deployment.
I always was a fan of Radke and Reed but none of these guys are exactly stars. Santana is used to leading a staff of the unproven and unwashed. I would’ve liked to have provided him with a bit more of a cushion but he seems unconcerned and I can’t argue that I would know better than him (just that I might know better than you guys
)
ceetar
2/11/2010-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
I think the Mets have as much of a shot at the playoffs with anyone, and I’d take Santana-Perez-Maine happily. Big game pitchers.
GravediggerHebner
2/11/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
Big game pitchers? I admire the optimism of the self-proclaimed Optimistic Mets Fan ™ but isn’t that a tiny iota of a stretch?
I mean what big games are you referring to? Surely not game 4 of the NLCS which Perez won despite giving up 5 runs because the Mets scored 12. Yes he pitched well in game 7 but they lost, so what does he truly have to show in big games other than a 12 run win and a well pitched loss?
I was at Maine’s big game in the NLDS, if one can refer to a start of 4 1/3 innings as a big game. Game 2 of the NLCS, only 4 innings and 4 runs (3 earned). Game 6 at least he managed to get into the 6th, pitched well and won. So he’s 1 for 3 in big games in my book.
I guess I will give you credit for referring to them as big game pitchers as opposed to big game winners.
trs86
2/11/2010-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
I am guessing he is using the larger sample of big regular season games.
GravediggerHebner
2/11/2010-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
In 2006 there weren’t any, so that season is out.
In 2007 Maine undoubtedly had a fabulous one but he also had a 2-0 lead after 1 inning, a 5-0 lead after 2 and an 8-0 lead after 3, not exactly pressure packed.
In 2008 he wasn’t around for any big games.
In 2007 Perez pitched well and won on my birthday when the Mets were up 1 1/2 games, then his next and final start tied for the division lead with 3 games left in the season he gave up 6 runs in 3 2/3 and lost.
In 2008 he had a good start no-decision with 2 weeks left in the season, then his last 3 starts which were all also no-decisions only one of which met the bare minimum literal definition of a quality start.
I reiterate, big game “pitchers” OK, big game “winners” not a true tale. So I give Ceet credit for calling them big game pitchers, which seems to me to be as much giving them credit for simply existing in the rotation as it does anything else.
Please can we stop this? The more I examine this and defend my position the more my optimism in this pitching staff wanes.
Mr North Jersey
2/11/2010-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Poor Grave, Just when you thought you was out… they pull you back in.
Next thing you know you’ll find a horse’s head in your bed.
GravediggerHebner
2/11/2010-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Or a horse head bookend. “Student Bodies” funny, campy low budget horror spoof from the early eighties.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWQm8EvfTJw
ceetar
2/11/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
True, and it was Perez who flamed out in the last game of 2008, but that was hardly the only reason they lost.
Perez has usually had a pretty good record against the Yankees and Phillies, but maybe that’s just because they’ve been fairly lefty-power oriented?
In 2006 while they didn’t win, they did keep things nice and tight, and the good bullpen won the game. Willie managed that perfectly, milking them for everything they were worth early, turning it over to the old reliables in the bullpen, and taking the win.
they have the capability of pitching big games and have had some iota of success at it somewhere. If the Mets are in the playoffs and they’re in the rotation, it likely means one or both is performing well, and I’d definitely be comfortable with that going into the playoffs. I also thing Pelfrey has the right attitude for it and if he’s got a postseason start on top of the good regular season I’d be happy as well.
I guess i’m not trying to overrate anyone’s “big game” ability, just that I think if it comes down to the 2010 postseason that I don’t think I’ll be worried about the pitching.
stickguy
2/11/2010-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
perez did not pitch that badly in the last game of 2008 (I was there). For sure better than Glavine the year before!
He was on short rest, and just kind of tired out after 5 pretty good innings, and Jerry probably should have left him out for another (given the BP quality and options).
It was good old Scotty S. that tossed that one away, along with the non-existant offense (other than the Beltran HR).
Perez ptiched plenty good enough to win that day.
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
Stick, I have already contacted the factory and told them to change the bandwagon into some sort of large parade float, so the whole rotation can stand, and have those things to lean on, like models in the Rose Bowl parade, and they can hold on with one hand while pointing out the rotation doubters in the crowd for the roving squads of Positiviality Enforcers to deal with.
CaseStreet
2/11/2010-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
Like I said the other day, Santan is my man.
I mean, I like the way he handles himself on and off the field.
Actually, I have his mets.com wallpaper up on my desktop. My 2yr old saw it and said it was Daddy. I wish.
Still, I was thinking of getting a Beltran Jersey, but I might just get another Santana Jersey.
Anyone else want to join me at the Santana Love-Fest.
gonzowill
2/11/2010-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
Big fan of the Underdog Picture!!!!!!
trs86
2/11/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Grave, I would make this into a post but I am not sure where it really fits on the site.
Of the 7 pitchers in the majors with a contract of 5 or more years (CC, Johan, Zambrano, Zito, AJ, Oswalt and Millwood) only the 2 Yankees pitched 200 or more innings.
Their values according to Fangraps values for SP ranked out the following (in the order above)
10,50,33,59,44,45,57
Their 3 year rankings are: 1, 13, 33, 52, 20, 21, 36
I have more to follow. None of these show it would have been a travesty to sign Lackey for 5+ years but it does have to add some risk.
Mr North Jersey
2/11/2010-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
TRS I was reading up top but I missed it. Is someone saying that signing Lackey to a 5+ year deal has no risk?
I think that is absurd if someone is suggesting it of course their is risk but like the Pedro Martinez contract you have to weight the risk long term vs the reward short term.
I don’t care how healthy you are no one can foresee 5 years down the road Look at ARod and the contract he signed you think the Yankees are not worried he won’t stay healthy for the full contract? Yet they did it anyway because the reward is much greater than the risk for them.
trs86
2/11/2010-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
Not at all. I am saying that signing pitchers to 5 year deals so far has not produced the desired effect.
Ranking of innings pitched over the last 3 years
CC 1
Johan 12
Oswalt 17
AJ 19
Zamby 24
Zito 28
Millwood 38
Only 3/7 have averaged 200 innings per year during the last 3 years.
trs86
2/11/2010-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Wins ranking
CC 1
Johan 6
Zamby 14
AJ 17
Oswalt 23
Millwood 40
Zito 44
Perhaps this one leans toward 5 years being ok. 5/7 in the top 25.
GravediggerHebner
2/11/2010-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
Unless you’re really interested in investing the time for yourself don’t bother doing it for me. We’re just rehashing stuff we’ve been over all off season, IMO there’s no need. I am aware of the concept of risk/reward, and I am also aware the Mets this off season leaned heavily away from it.
I’ve been in a good, optimistic mood regarding the Mets recently. This thread today is pushing me in the other direction. Can we please not do that?
I’d much rather debate who we think comprises the best bench or how we think the bullpen will shake out than go over (again) our differences of opinion on the starting pitching which will only serve to crush the bit of optimism I have.
If you guys want to stay on that course I respect the majority and I’ll just bow out.
trs86
2/11/2010-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
LOL, you may just have to bow out. I think there are some interesting stats here. Not sure they prove one way or the other. It’s not a matter of saying one is better than the other. I think that it’s more than just risk and reward. It’s also a matter of there are only a few pitchers that appear to be worth a 5 year contract to start with.
Mr North Jersey
2/11/2010-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
I can’t find the Piniero comment over at MC’s you guys keep talking about.
trs86
2/11/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
http://www.metsblog.com/2010/02/10/buzz-heyman-on-mets-barajas-and-washburn/
Mr North Jersey
2/11/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Thanks TRS wow so
“…the Mets dropped the ball with Joel Pineiro, it’s that simple… ”
“…they clearly wanted him, and needed him”
At least he put himself out there and gave a declarative opinion. Did that sound right?
He got one part right the Mets dropped the ball but I don’t know if I would say it was Piniero that they dropped the ball on.
If the Mets needed him then can someone tell me what that need is that he was supposed to fill?
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
“If the Mets needed him then can someone tell me what that need is that he was supposed to fill?”
The need for a perfect righty version of Oliver Perez!
A guy who can be counted on for one or two good years every 5 or 6!
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
We officially signed the next Takahashi…..
trs86
2/11/2010-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
Cool, can you make a post about it?
Kingman 26
2/11/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
Done!
I am out for a while, but stopped to get this up—THAT is how much I respect you and this here site Chief!
Mr North Jersey
2/11/2010-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
Speaking of chief where is Dirty?