Now that Mike Jacobs is a Met, will Dan Murphy lose his job as the everyday First Baseman?
Feb 14
The Sunday Question
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62 comments
satishram
2/14/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
It’s a real interesting situation. If Jacobs gets a shot, and even Tatis gets a shot, then Chris Carter better get a shot too. Since we don’t seem to be signing anyone else, I’d rather see a little bit of Carter on that bench instead of Frank Catalanotto.
But will Dan Murphy lose his job…
I don’t think so. I don’t know what the exact stats are, but in my opinion, Jacobs isn’t gifted defensively. He can drill more HRs than Murphy, but I figure Murphy to post better numbers overall because he can hit for average and he’s a line drive hitter playing half his games in a pitcher’s ballpark.
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
As a writer here, may I welcome you!
satishram
2/14/2010-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
Thanks! I’ve been reading this blog for about two weeks now, so I decided to get my input in. In addition, I’ve noticed a lot of writers from here are actively commenting on MMO, so I figure i’d return the favor.
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Thanks again; the more the merrier here.
I do not totally disagree with what you say below.
I am a dedicated member of the Occasionally Irrational Optimist school; so, when I look at what Murph did in the minors without playing at AAA, and the way he started hitting late in the year in 2009, I personally want to give him a chance to play every day (well, Tatis can start once in a while against tough lefties) as I really think Murph can be a .300 hitter with a .375+ OBP, with 40+ 2B. Not the production of Howard or Tex to be sure, but perhaps eventually a very valuable and perfect number 2 hitter between Jose and our Met murderers row of Wright/Beltran/Bay.
GravediggerHebner
2/14/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Will he? I don’t know.
Can he? Yes, certainly.
Do I want him to? No.
I hope Murphy shows through his play that he has put his experience and his abilities together through practice and preparation to be an improved player and that the franchise has a pleasant problem next year of what to do with their abundance of wealth at the 1B position.
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Definitely with Grave here.
Tatis (lots of value as a reserve, very little as a starter) and Carter (did not get ANY better in four years in AAA—some stats got worse) are not serious options as everyday first baseman for a team which wants to compete, and a quick look at Jacobs’ career shows that other than a slight HR advantage–yes, slight; he has hit over 20 HR in a season exactly once–Murph is better at every single facet of baseball than Jacobs. BA, OBP, 2B, fielding, baserunning, etc.
satishram
2/14/2010-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
To be honest, It’s a little bit upsetting that after such a rough season, we’re debating between Murphy/Tatis/Carter/Jacobs at a position that fields great production from great teams.
I do wish we could’ve signed Laroche, but what’s done is done, and my choice is to go with Murphy into the season. I’m not sure if it’ll happen, but I hope it does.
joed1
2/14/2010-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
Hey Satish! As you know, I also wanted LaRoche. I’m not convincsd Ike Davis is a lock for 2011, so I had no problem with giving him 2 years. I like Jacobs more for the competition he’ll give Murphy in camp. Last time we simply handed an everyday job to Murph (LF) it didnt work out to well. Plus, theres even a chance Jacobs could beat him out. May the best man win.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
I agree of the list if candidates excluding Ike Davis since I really don’t expect him to make the team for Opening Day I’d rather have Murphy given the everyday job but with one exception Chris Carter.
If Carter can have a great Spring and I mean just head and shoulders better than Murphy offensively the Mets have to consider him at 1st. Especially if Murphy fails to show that he is just way better defensively around 1st than Carter is.
Carter was buried in AAA at Boston through no fault of his own all he ever did was hit but was never given a shot and I really want to see him take advantage this Spring and force the issue.
metsfan4decades
2/14/2010-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
I initially would have said the job is Murphy’s to lose right now.
But what do you think happens if Murph looks defensively improved, hits well and Carter does the same?
I know, good problem to have – choosing between two guys who look good.
I know one thing: Murph is going to give it all he’s got. I know this is a new year but you have to give the kid kudos for not only being one of the last standing end of ’09, but starting in LF when he was not an OF, moving to 1st when LF was a failed experiment and Delgado went down – and instead of getting an attitude, he just worked even harder at learning 1st.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
All things being equal?
I’d guess Murphy wins out.
Like you said though, it’s “good problem to have”.
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
Well, it would be a good problem to have if Murph’s competitors were not an aging bench player, a terrible all-around player whose only reason for being in the majors is his minimal ability to hit a few HR on mistake pitches, and a career minor leaguer who has shown zero improvement in four years at AAA.
We are making this sounds as though we have a race between all-stars and phenoms. We don’t.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
Career minor leaguer who has shown zero improvement in four years at AAA?
I assume your referring to Carter. little improvement? what else do you want from him?
In 2006 in 136/games 23/yrs old
.301/ba .395/obp .483/slg 19/hr 97/rbi 87/r
In 2007 in 138/games 24/yrs old
.316/ba .377/obp .504/slg 19/hr 88/rbi 80/r
In 2008 in 121/games 25/yrs old
.300/ba .356/obp .515/slg 24/hr 81/rbi 65/r
In 2009 in 116/games 26/yrs old
.294/ba .358/obp .465/slg 16/hr 61/rbi 50/r
What exactly are you looking for? For 3 years the kid held his own at AAA showing he was no one year fluke. Last season he had a down year by his standards so what? You want to use that against him?
In the last 2 years he was given all of 26 Major League games to play in.
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, I am on the board of directors of the Irrational Optimists, as you know.
How many guys spend FOUR years at AAA?
And as the stats I had viewed and you so courteously posted above show, he has not improved AT ALL in four years in AAA.
I fully understand that he has been blocked in Boston by Youkilis, but still, if he was good, I think his AAA stats would have gotten better, not stayed largely the same or declined–his OBP the last two years at AAA was almost 40 points lower than in 2006–and many of his other stats the last two years were down as well….this, my estemmed colleague, is absolutely not the sign of a guy who is ready to be a serious MLB player.
And I look for him to have a GREAT spring–that is what guys like this do. He will excel in the spring, be very good in AAA, and hopefully we will not see him on the Met roster much if at all.
I want Murph to play every day. As a comparison, look at Murph’s across the board dramatic improvement in his two years in the minors.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-3:47pm at 3:47 pm (UTC -4)
I fail to see what is it you wanted to see get better?
He is a 300 hitter you expect him to eventually become a 350 hitter?
He avg 20 hrs just because he is in AAA for 3 years is he supposed to eventually hit 40 hr’s?
I mean if you told me Murphy would be a career .300 hitter that averages 20 hr’s a year and drives in on average 80 rbi’s a season I would sign up for that right now.
That is what Carter has given you at AAA so again what more is it you expect from Carter?
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-3:54pm at 3:54 pm (UTC -4)
Mr North, I DO NOT expect a guy to EVER spend 4 years in AAA…this is highly unusual.
Carter’s OBP went DOWN significantly from his first year in AAA.
I am not sure what you are not getting here—a player should improve throughout his 20s, if he is an MLB-caliber player and spends four years in AAA.
Not only has Carter NOT improved, his stats have either leveled off or declined– the OBP declined significantly.
In any event, we won’t be talking about Carter for long.
He is Val Pascucci and Crash Davis.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-4:06pm at 4:06 pm (UTC -4)
As far as Murphy’s last 2 years cmon King seriously?
Murphy played all of 1 game in his career at AAA. He played 135 games in A ball in 2007 and 95 games at AA in 2008.
Your talking about A ball and AA King. I wonder if Murphy played in AAA for 2 season as of today if he could put up comparable numbers as Carter.
Murphy never played in AAA except for 1 game let that sink in for a minute.
You want to tell me Murphy’s progress from A ball to AA ball means a lot?
Murphy skipped AAA which unless I’m mistaken is supposedly the hardest level on your way to the Bigs. In his 1st full season in the bigs he hit what .266? So what if he was at AAA he would of hit better than .308 which is what he hit at AA?
Again Murphy deserves a chance but in his career he has never shown the power that Carter has and unless Carter is a dog at 1st I really would like to see him shine this Spring and be that trade that Minaya made where people will look back and say WOW who knew this kid could hit like this.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
Your right maybe all this is for not maybe he will be another bust a AAAA player that could never cut it in the Majors.
Another Val like you said. Time will tell in any event I will be rooting for him as a dark horse I mean I like the underdogs.
Murphy is a nice kid that deserves to start every day over a Tatis or Jacobs imo. They had their time.
Carter should be hungry and this may be his last chance I will be curious to see what he does with it.
njstuckintx
2/14/2010-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
I do not agree with the statement that certain production needs to happen from one position or another. If the lineup has a nice progression does it matter if the 3, 4, 5 positions are covered by specific positions? If the Pitcher could jack the ball like Micah Owings and hit for .345 average, I have no problems with my Pitcher batting cleanup.
I think that most power hitters are not super speedy and, as such, they are relegated to 1B, 3B, corner OF or C positions. Hence, there is a greater propensity to have more power hitting players to choose from those positions. With that larger selection (not necessarily better), maybe that is why people can’t understand why we are “stuck” with Murphy and his production at 1B. I feel Murph will continue to progress, provide decent production and provide what I feel is his greatest asset to this team: Salary relief (IE He’s Cheap!). He’s no A-Gonz, Pujols or even a Youk, but I have no problem with what we have in Murphy.
So, to actually answer the question, Murphy will be the everyday 1B.
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
What a great analysis!
We did not miss HRs at first when Keith played there.
We shall soon see, but I really think with his work ethic Murph can be a very valuable offensive player, maybe even a perfect number 2 hitter in a year or so.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-4:19pm at 4:19 pm (UTC -4)
Dude Keith was an rbi machine.
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
Duh! No kidding–and he did it without slugging a lot of HR! That was my point—a first baseman can be productive without hitting loads of HR….if Murph hits 6th or 7th and hits 45 doubles, he will drive in plenty.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-4:28pm at 4:28 pm (UTC -4)
Do you expect Murphy to be an rbi machine?
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-5:00pm at 5:00 pm (UTC -4)
I am not sure what your game is today, as this question, like the ones posed above regarding Carter, is also NOT regarding what I was actually saying.
So, Mr North, have a great evening, and we will debate another day when you more clearly read what I actually write.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-5:08pm at 5:08 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry a I don’t follow would of been suffice.
I was replying to your comment of the Mets not needing HR’s when Keith played 1st. Which I took to suggest the Mets don’t necesarrily need Murphy to hit HR’s at 1st.
Which I replied with Keith was an rbi machine.
You followed with a duh and said that is your point a 1st baseman can be productive without hitting hr’s.
Which I replied do you expect Murphy to be an rbi machine?
Since you seem to suggest Murphy can drive in a lot of rbi’s without the need of the longball.
I hope that helped clear things up better.
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-5:19pm at 5:19 pm (UTC -4)
Actually, YOU are not following!
“I was replying to your comment of the Mets not needing HR’s when Keith played 1st. ”
Uhhh, I did not write that, nor have I ever THOUGHT that.
What I DID write was “We did not miss HRs at first when Keith played there.”
Meaning that Keith contributed so much in other ways that we did not miss not having a home run hitting first baseman there.
Again, I DID NOT say we did not NEED HR then, I suggested that with everything else he contributed, Keith more than made up for his lack of power in other ways.
Hence, I believe there is a chance that Murphy MIGHT evolve into the kind of player who could hit just 15 HR but might do enough otherwise that his lack of power would not be a big negative factor for the team overall.
And yes, if Murphy hits 6th or 7th and hits 45 doubles, I think he will drive in 80–90 runs at least. An RBI machine? Maybe not. But a productive player for a 2nd year guy hitting in the lower part of the lineup? Yes, I hope so.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-5:28pm at 5:28 pm (UTC -4)
My apologies i took that when one says they did not miss something they by the same token meant they did not need it.
Sorry my mistake. I’ll try to remember to ask if I interpreted you correctly before assuming I know what you meant by a comment.
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-5:39pm at 5:39 pm (UTC -4)
Well, no apology necessary….I thought you were messing with me, and as I was apparently wrong, I apologize to YOU!
njstuckintx
2/14/2010-4:32pm at 4:32 pm (UTC -4)
I think that is more a product of the time than it was Keith, per se, regarding the HRs.
Citi field may be well suited for the double RBIs, so here’s to hoping!
njstuckintx
2/14/2010-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
All we have to do is get Murph to kick the 80′s ‘stache. That alone should be worth an additional 10-15 Rib Eye Steaks.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-4:29pm at 4:29 pm (UTC -4)
That and maybe he better get that Jobu doll from Major League.
njstuckintx
2/14/2010-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
But Jobu can’t hit a curve ball.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-4:41pm at 4:41 pm (UTC -4)
True, maybe then it will at least give Murphy a reason when he doesn’t hit the curveball.
njstuckintx
2/14/2010-4:42pm at 4:42 pm (UTC -4)
Better stock up on the Sambuca and Stogies then.
Mr North Jersey
2/14/2010-4:43pm at 4:43 pm (UTC -4)
lol
rustyjr
2/14/2010-2:04pm at 2:04 pm (UTC -4)
doesanybody think that the mets might get desperate and re sign delgado by mid season if neither murph or tatis distinguishes themselves as adequate?
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-2:09pm at 2:09 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, that could happen I guess if Delgado shows he can move.
I just think Murph is going to arrive this year. I really do.
But then again, I liked the Ollie signing before last year….
rustyjr
2/14/2010-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
i hope so too kong – but what happens in ’11 if ike is ready >?
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
Then Murph learns to play second base once and for all in winter ball?
Or, if he is good, then we have an excellent piece for a serious trade?
THOSE would be nice problems to have!
I hope Mrs. Staub is resting nicely and recovering–please give her my best!
njstuckintx
2/14/2010-2:23pm at 2:23 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with King, I’ll deal with that problem any day of the week. Also, if Ike’s bat is that great, just keep Murph at 1B and put Ike in RF. Give him the Berkman treatment!
njstuckintx
2/14/2010-2:33pm at 2:33 pm (UTC -4)
I’m wondering how long it would take Delgado to get into form if they did. And I hope that it’s something we never have to find out!
stickguy
2/14/2010-3:08pm at 3:08 pm (UTC -4)
I’m thinking that he just doesn’t have more form to get into. Can’t relaly see him getting the range and flexibility back to be a decent 1B.
Just go for a DH slot and be done with it.
Would have been interesting to see him on the Yankees instead of Johnson. Maybe when Nick gets hurt (should be what, May 1 at the latest?) they will sign him as a replacement.
stickguy
2/14/2010-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
I really need to stop reading any off season recap, winer/loser articles.
At the least, there is a double standard for 1 team (guess hich one).
I really can’t wait for the season to start so we can critique and actual team, not fantasty land.
njstuckintx
2/14/2010-4:05pm at 4:05 pm (UTC -4)
Soon enough, soon enough. If you consider 50 some odd days until opening day to be soon. It is going to be sour grapes and all that crap about the Mets until they start playing and start winning. I wish that there was something to fast forward through the spring training. If we see Murphy putting up good numbers, Pagan or F-mart mashing the ball and serious competition for the 5th spot, we may see more silver in the lining. So, maybe things will turn around in 35-40 days. yippee…
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-3:57pm at 3:57 pm (UTC -4)
From the Post:
“Report: Cardinals ending pursuit of Wang”
Hmmm, I wonder if Heyman, Rosenthal, Olney, Klapisch, and the foul-mouthed 8-year old at Kranepool Society are preparing pieces about the Cards being out of money???
njstuckintx
2/14/2010-4:07pm at 4:07 pm (UTC -4)
What do the pundits say of how the Cards offseason was? Do they say it’s a push? A bad offseason? All they did was sign Penny, right? They didn’t open up the wallet for anybody.
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
Matt Holliday……
gonzowill
2/14/2010-4:31pm at 4:31 pm (UTC -4)
I guess that would be a failure, according to Heyman
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-4:58pm at 4:58 pm (UTC -4)
No, the failure there is clearly the Mets’ failure to sign Holliday too!
But, there is only so much a team can do when they are clearly broke and out of money….
njstuckintx
2/14/2010-4:37pm at 4:37 pm (UTC -4)
I know that. My attempt at humor there. And exactly how people all seem to forget about how the Mets signed Bay. It’s like “oh, the Mets offseason sucked! They signed no one!” “um, they signed Bay…” “Uh, OK, other than that, their offseason sucked!” “sigh…”
GravediggerHebner
2/14/2010-4:54pm at 4:54 pm (UTC -4)
I kind of thought you were joking, but you could also have been very serious in that the Cardinals didn’t “add” Holliday, they already had him. So all the Cardinals “did to improve” was sign Penny, hardly a game changing acquisition.
The Mets “added” Bay.
njstuckintx
2/14/2010-6:59pm at 6:59 pm (UTC -4)
Ever the one splitting hairs…
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-5:05pm at 5:05 pm (UTC -4)
Gotcha….and I vehemently agree that Bay’s hugely improtant signing is overlooked, in the media frenzy to criticize the Mets.
Hey, it is just another deal worth tens of millions for an all-star player that those broke, small-market, penny-pinching Coupons give out on an annual basis.
But it is FUN to pretend they are broke and cheap!!
Alas, there are many fans with IQs below 80 who eat it up…check the comments at the Star Ledger and Mets.com sometimes….yikes!
njstuckintx
2/14/2010-6:57pm at 6:57 pm (UTC -4)
I, myself, have almost forgotten about Mr. Bay. When we, as a collective, slam the Mets for not addressing the rotation (which they slyly did with the Takahashi#2 signing), we get very myopic. There were other holes that the Mets had. And they did fill them (well, a few of the many).
- Catcher = changed out a supposed 5 million dollar defense specialist with actual defensive guys that are much cheaper
- LF – Mr. Bay, come on down, you’ve been chosen…
- Pen = revamped that with GMJ. Kidding.
- Bench = Got all the potentials covered with OK guys. We’d like more pop off the bench, for sure, but overall, the fill in’s are ok.
- Starting pitching… ick.
It’s that last point everyone goes super-focused on and forgets the rest. Yeah, it is going to come back to haunt, possibly, but it was not a case of complacency with the other holes.
prismo
2/14/2010-5:39pm at 5:39 pm (UTC -4)
Over at MB, Baron says “i think 81-90 is a realistic range for this team.”
Ah, so your prediction is they they could range from a below .500 team to a practically guaranteed playoff-spot team. Thanks for the analysis.
Kingman 26
2/14/2010-5:40pm at 5:40 pm (UTC -4)
Did he specify “wins” or is he REALLY covering all bases!!
metsfan4decades
2/14/2010-8:37pm at 8:37 pm (UTC -4)
I really, really wish I didn’t read the comments on this post you referenced.
Some of the Met fans over there…well I just have to wonder why they even follow this team. They sound like they’ve given up before the season even starts.
Hazmet
2/14/2010-8:57pm at 8:57 pm (UTC -4)
FYI – On right now.
IMO – Bobby V making mince meat out of the other analysts on ESPN Baseball Tonight Special.
Love it, go Bobby.
GravediggerHebner
2/14/2010-11:43pm at 11:43 pm (UTC -4)
So I hope you’re sitting down if you’re reading this.
I was just checking out the Mets page over at cbs sportsline and apparently they’ve signed a catcher named Luke Montz to a minor league contract and invited him to spring training. If you already knew this, sorry for wasting your time. If you didn’t, pencil in another catcher to the spring training mix.
This image of him apparently kicking Chutley in the shins wins me over:
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/06kw12vbrE7cm/610x.jpg
stickguy
2/15/2010-8:46am at 8:46 am (UTC -4)
I have decided that either the MEts are the Toyota of MLB, or Toyota is the Mets of automakers.
stickguy
2/15/2010-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
Probably could have expanded on that just a bit…
Big name, became successful, and competitiors and press get jealous and/or just like to beat up on the big guys.
Then when anything goes wrong, they love to pile on, sensationalize, and kick the giant while he is down.
That, and a bunch of their problems are self induced, either from poor management practices, or bad decisions.
But, both have a lot of resources and remaining talent (the product), and can rebound quickly if they can avoid shooting themselves in the foot again, and get a little basic good luck (staying healthy for the Mets, and not having any more models implode on Toyota).
hey, if I am going to be involved with a car company and have to go through some rocky times, I would rather do it with Toyota, that has the resources to survive and come out better and tougher, than Mitsubishi, that would just disappear from the US market entirely.
Same with a ball club. The Mets still have enough on field talent and payroll to weather the storm and come out of the lst few eyars better off (likely with a rebuilt FO and management style), unlike a bunch of other teams that would have been sunk for years.
njstuckintx
2/15/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
that does provide insight to the takahashi signing…