A small but loud minority of Met fans seems to have taken to Nelson Figueroa as if he were pitching’s equivalent of Orlando “Gritty Mc†Hudson.
One visits Met-related sites and blogs and finds fans and commenters defending Figgy’s honor and demanding that he receive the respect he “deserves.â€
A respected colleague blog of ours had an article the other day which stated these themes, and in defending the piece the writer went so far as to insist that Figgy “badly out-pitched Pelfrey and Perez†last year. Comically ridiculous of course, and the very respectful author politely replied to the legion of folks who shot down this very silly assertion. Ollie was hurt from day one, and Pelf, while disappointing, was most certainly not out-pitched by the paragon of mediocrity that is Nelson Figueroa.
Our friend Brian Costa at the Ledger made the unforgivable mistake of misstating Figueroa’s stats in his 4 inning stint the other day. The first commenter rudely demanded that Brian “Get your story right and give Figgy the respect he deserves.†The always accessible Costa did fix the numbers. Of course, this 4 inning stint was in first week of March. And it was the LAST four innings, after starters were taken out or were about to be removed. Yes, this performance early in the spring against mostly minor leaguers surely is a sign of the next Bob Gibson.
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Nelson Figueroa is, by all accounts, a fine man. Seemingly a family man with lots of close relatives and friends. A hard-worker and a student of the game who has played all over the globe and whose dream apparently has been to be a Met. In 2009 he did indeed have a few good outings.
But a close look shows that one of the best of his few good games was the last day of the season, against a rotten Astro team with one foot on the golf course. Another of his good outings was a Sunday game in Chicago when the Cubs were swinging away and clearly mailing it in. His next start against the Cubs allowed 7 H, 2 BB, and 4 ER in 6 IP. Yes, he had one good game against the Braves, which followed a horrible one against them. And his one start against the Phils allowed 9 H and 5 BB in 5.1 IP. He threw 12.1 innings of relief in 6 games, and allowed 18 hits and 5 walks; this was nicely and evenly spread among all six outings, the last five of which were all quite mediocre.
Nelson Figueroa’s supporters are certainly not reminiscent of Richard Nixon’s Silent Majority. No, they are most definitely more along the lines of the great jazz saxophonist and arranger Frank Foster’s Loud Minority.
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Like Orlando Hudson’s tiny legions, Figgy’s supporters clearly ignore his near-decade of failure, in six organizations, as a starter and a bullpen arm. Figgy has been consistently bad as a starter and a reliever in all of his spots, except for a decent 2003 for the Pirates, in only 35 IP. Hudson’s Met fan backers continue to ignore the fact that for two consecutive offseasons, he had literally almost zero interest. The Dodgers could not even wait for the season to conclude before ending his on-field presence; just as when released by the Mets last year, Figgy had precisely zero takers. Now, Hudson is clearly a large class above Figgy, having had many fine years as a starter, and being an all-star and a Gold Glove winner, but his reputation as a “gritty†“leader†and a “great clubhouse guy†is about as real as the famous photo of the Loch Ness Monster.
Hence, the Figgy Flotilla of folks is even stranger; some of Hudson’s Met Fairy Dust has clearly been sprinkled on Figgy’s weary right arm.
Nelson Figueroa, in this writer’s opinion, would probably make an outstanding pitching coach someday. He has lasted many years, playing in many leagues and nations, despite marginal talent at best. He is a likeable, serious man who obviously knows his craft. Here’s hoping that if Bobby O or Randy Neimann do not eventually succeed Dan Warthen, that Figgy is given a serious look.
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As for his role on the 2010 Mets, let’s pray it is in Buffalo, and not Queens. In the comments section of TRDMB, this writer has challenged others to name one single pitcher with a record like Figgy’s who has become a seriously valuable member of a pitching staff at his age, after all the years of failure. No one has named one. The only one who comes to mind is Darren Oliver. Oliver was a truly horrible starter for the Rangers for years. Granted, they play in a hitters’ park and are among the least successful organizations in sports, but still, a look at Oliver’s stats as a starter paints a grim picture. Oliver did, however, keep at it, and has enjoyed a somewhat remarkable second career as bullpen depth for some very good teams. Could this be a role for Figgy? Perhaps; and surely the only one he can realistically aspire to.
There certainly are teams in Japan, Mexico, and elsewhere which would be very happy to have a pitcher like Nelson Figueroa. He just does not have the talent to be a starter for an MLB team with serious aspirations. Fernando Nieve is much younger, throws harder, and is a product of an organization which has produced fine pitchers for decades. Should Niese not win the spot, it says here that it should and will be Nieve’s.
If Figgy and his agent are patient and savvy enough, perhaps they should wait for the next Bad News Bears reunion. This way, Figgy could stay in the US and play for a big market team, which for decades has had consistent fan support. And he would slot in perfectly as their number two starter, right between Amanda Wurlitzer and Rudy Stein.
14 comments
tommy2cat
3/7/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
Kingman: I think Nelson Figueroa has already earned a spot on this year’s staff based upon last year’s performance and his success in winter ball. I think he is best suited to assume the role Darren Oliver held in 2006 – long relief, spot starter. He has a rubber arm, has experience and is unfazed by his opponent or the game situation.
He’s had a long career. Here’s is true career stats courtesy of The Baseball Cube:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/Nelson-Figueroa.shtml
And here’s his game log from last year, courtesy of ESPN:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=4403
I think your analysis of his performance last year is a bit skewed to support your thesis that Figgy gets more credit than he deserves. If you analyze his performance against St. Louis, Philly, Atlanta & Florida from August forward, you will find a couple of uneven performances, but you will find many more quality performances, whether he was brought in relief or given the ball as a starter. And mind you, the statistics here do not include the 2.45 era and 1.03 WHIP that he carried for a dismal Bisons team last year.
Let me posit this question for you. Who would you rather have on your staff, Sean Green or Nelson Figueroa? Kelvim Escobar, who can’t wipe his … eyebrow, or Nelson Figueroa? And what if a brooding John Maine can’t overcome his shoulder weakness, or Ollie can’t throw a strike or Pelfrey, who gave up 7 hits and 4 runs in a 3-inning “quality” performance yesterday, turns every visitors parking lot into a mental health track? What if one of Niese or Nieve re-injures his leg? I really like all of these pitchers, but given last year’s debacle, a little insurance on the major league roster appears to be in order.
My suggestion is that we should keep Figgy on the roster this year as an experienced fireman to answer the bell when the next emergency inevitably arises. During the interim, he can teach the younger ones how to think about the game, how to bear down and strike out three guys with runners on 2nd and 3rd, like he did a day or two ago. One thing we cannot afford is to let him slip out of the organization because he’s out of options. If one or two starters go down, we may be out of options, too. Verstehen Sie Das?
darknova306
3/7/2010-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
In fairness, though, lack of options has meant nothing. We’ve sent him threw waivers repeatedly and he’s always cleared them.
And I’d rather have Escobar than Figgy, personally. He’s got way more upside.
Kingman 26
3/7/2010-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
Your citing winter ball and a 35-year old’s performance in Buffalo PERFECTLY sum up exactly what I was talking about.
“An experienced fireman?” Yes, just as Orlando Hudson is a “leader” and a “great clubhouse guy.”
“An experienced fireman?” Does he actually ride a fire truck in the offseason? Because this phrase in no way remotely refers to his performance on a baseball field.
He can teach the young guys how to “strike out three guys with runners on 2nd and 3rd, like he did a day or two ago”–in a late inning performance against minor leaguers in early March?
Have you ever LOOKED at his career stats?
Thank you for helping me make my case.
Wow.
Kingman 26
3/7/2010-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
“from August forward, you will find a couple of uneven performances, but you will find many more quality performances, whether he was brought in relief or given the ball as a starter.”
This is debatable regarding starts, and utterly wrong regarding relief appearances.
He had six relief appearances all year—the FIRST one was very good on Aug 5th against St L….he then had five more, the team lost EVERY ONE and EVERY ONE was mediocre to downright bad, allowing mutliple baserunners every single time.
1.2 IP, 2 H, 2 BB
1 IP, 3 H 1 R
2 IP, 3 H, 1 HBP, 2 ER
1 IP, 2 H, 1 BB
2.1 IP, 4 H, 2 BB, 2 ER.
This is the last 5 of his 6 relief appearances—not one good.
Again, your argument is the epitome of the argument of the Figgy supporter.
metsfan4decades
3/7/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
We’re not debating here Figgy as the 5th starter, are we? Because I’m not seeing that, not for opening day.
As long man in the BP, he’s got good credibility. Doesn’t take him long to get ready at all. I believe I saw him come in a couple of times when there was a pulled starter early in the game and/or an injury. And he’s a guy that can come in early and pitch 4 or 5 innings, if need be.
Also, he’s good for that spot starter if you’ve got that double header (mostly make up games added to a weekend game) or if a starter needs to miss a spot but not necessarily be on the DL.
It’s going to be interesting to see who they decide to take north come opening day.
darknova306
3/7/2010-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
Good point, though I’d rather see Niese get the 5th spot and Nieve get slotted into that long relief/spot starter role. He’s versatile like crazy and has much better stuff than Figgy.
metsfan4decades
3/7/2010-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
Good point as well and that’s probably what they’re leaning to – Niese as 5th starter and Nieve as long man.
Both Nieve and Figgy are out of options and if we have to take a chance at losing one, I’d rather it be Figgy. Nieve is still young and from what we saw last year, Figgy might well wind up back in the Met organization anyway….
stickguy
3/7/2010-1:50pm at 1:50 pm (UTC -4)
figgy could go through waivers. Neive won’t, unless he has an amazingly bad spring.
Also, look for the traditionaly DL sleight of hand to hide someone out of options.
metsfan4decades
3/7/2010-2:23pm at 2:23 pm (UTC -4)
The SNY booth is interviewing Figgy during the game today.
He says ‘it sounds like it should be my spot to lose’, speaking of what are his goals this spring training. Said he’s just going to keep working hard, going to prove once again that he can be a ML starter on a ML team. Said he welcomes the challenge.
Kevin asks him what it’s like coming int ST camp fighting for a spot on the ML roster as opposed to knowing you have a spot. He says ‘I don’t know, ’cause I’ve never been on the other side of the fence, knowing ahead of time I had a spot’.
CaseStreet
3/7/2010-4:13pm at 4:13 pm (UTC -4)
I agree w/ the Figgy in long man/spot starter role.
K-Rod
Nieve
Igarashi
Calero
Feliciano
Beimel
Figgy
I’d be just as content with Misch for the long man role.
metsfan4decades
3/7/2010-4:30pm at 4:30 pm (UTC -4)
Well, not sure Beimel is signing with us yet so….
Takahashi looked good today. 3 innings, gave up nothing and struck out 6 of the 9. Considering their new mantra this year of ‘throw strikes’, he merits a long look in ST. I’m not talking about starter but maybe the 8th inning guy?
Looking at your list above, wouldn’t Nieve qualify as the long man?
CaseStreet
3/7/2010-4:49pm at 4:49 pm (UTC -4)
yeah, but since Nieve has only been mentioned as either a starter or a late inning guy, I didn’t consider it.
I also want to see Parnell make the team.
brianmangan
3/7/2010-7:40pm at 7:40 pm (UTC -4)
I plan on reading the above comments in a minute, but I wanted to respond to the challenge the author made of finding a pitcher who was similar to Figueroa who made a contribution late in his career.
I did a quick search on baseball-reference for players who:
a) posted a 110 ERA+ or better
b) between the ages of 33-39
c) when those years were within the first five years of his career
d) as a starter
e) since integration (1947)
I came up with four names that I could see w/o a subscription: Sal Maglie, Connie Johnson, Willie Ramsdell, Al Brazle, Jose Contreras, and Ellis Kinder.
Sal Maglie, as some may know, was not out of the major leagues of his own accord – he was banned from baseball until age 32 – so he may not be a good comp.
Either way, the author is right in that this is a rare occurrence.
Kingman 26
3/7/2010-10:32pm at 10:32 pm (UTC -4)
Welcome here and thank you for taking the time to make this contribution!