Mar 18
I think most on this blog agree that Mejia needs more seasoning. Some of us disagree on the long-term effects of rushing him or bringing him up as a bullpen guy. What you don’t see is too many cases (other than Jerry Manuel) for bringing him up. Today, I present to you the other side.
–Kevin Kernan, NYP
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145 comments
stickguy
3/18/2010-8:19am at 8:19 am (UTC -4)
Keenan almost had me nodding my head, then he drops in this nugget:
“They also need to be careful not to overuse him. Jerry Manuel, who has been clamoring for Mejia since Day 1, needs to have a firm set of Jenrry Rules established so he does not use too much of a good thing.”
That right there makes it a non-starter. If the guy isn’t ready to pitch in a normal role (especially with a BP butcher like Jerry at the helm), he shouldn’t be up.
He also notes that Mejia “throws strikes” but that wasn’t really the case in AA or winter ball. Do 8 ST innings offset that?
Really, the bigger question to me is whether the potential benefit t othe Mets is greater having him perfect his craft as a SP in the minors, or become a 1-trick (FB) pony in the majors? Until Jerry burns him out at least.
They have plenty of other live arms to try in the pen before having to pluck their best SP prospect out of the lower minors.
I think that Sherman makes a better case (and it scares me to say that, even though he gets in the obligatory dig ont he Mets) “Relievers are volatile, up and down. So teams can luck into late-game solutions. You cannot say the same for elite starters. Put it this way: The Mets have a better chance of unearthing Francisco Rodriguez’s set-up man than finding an internal solution when John Maine, Mike Pelfrey or Oliver Perez inevitably break body parts or hearts”
Now, will having him in the pen for a year ruin him? opefully not. Does it mean he will never go back to starting? No. will it slow down or speed up his development? Well, you would think if he plays mini-mariano and just throws FBs, it isn’t going to help develop his full repetoire.
trs86
3/18/2010-8:21am at 8:21 am (UTC -4)
See what I don’t get is that for some reason if he comes up now as a reliever he will always be a reliever. That’s just silly. IF Omar and the Mets think he is ready then bring it on. If they screw it up then it’s their head too.
rustyjr
3/18/2010-8:30am at 8:30 am (UTC -4)
I’m just afraid that they will screw him up like tgey did with Parnell last season
stickguy
3/18/2010-8:34am at 8:34 am (UTC -4)
parnell screwed himself up I think. And the team was such a mess, they decided to just see if he was ready to go back to SP since they had such a gaping need.
trs86
3/18/2010-8:37am at 8:37 am (UTC -4)
Agreed.
trs86
3/18/2010-8:36am at 8:36 am (UTC -4)
Rusty, Parnell was not screwed up by the Mets last season. He was given a chance to be a starter, what he always wanted. He could not do it. It’s not like they moved him back and forth or sent him up and down. He was an average reliever at best that stunk as a starter.
ceetar
3/18/2010-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
Theycame close to moving him back and forth. He was getting stretched out, while learning how to manage pitching to big league hitters the second time through. How to manage his energy, a game, etc. Sure, he had some of this in the minors, but it’s not the same. You ask a guy to start a game knowing he’s basically starting the game as a reliever (i.e. lucky to go 4IP due to arm strength.) This also means that as he’s still adjusting to how to pitch to the same guy a second and third time through the lineup, is also when his arm is being pushed/stretched and is most tired. It was a bad idea for Parnell. It was a bad idea for Joba (nevermind that pitching like that feels very like goal-oriented rehab and very little like competitive pitching)
It was a bad idea. As for Meija, while i’m not against the idea, I think it’s too small a sample size to get all giddy about it and award a bullpen spot to him over some of these other guys that might very well do just as good. Send him down, let him get his innings in. (He’ll get 60-70 max, in the bullpen at the majors, if he goes down into May, we can get that over 100 where if/when we start him next year, we can push that yearly innings cap further towards a normal level, rather than risking doubling it.
trs86
3/18/2010-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
I agree about the sample size. I disagree about Parnell. He wanted to try and be a starter, Mets gave him that opprotunity and he struggled. Parnell just struggled with being hittable all year. WHIP by month: 1.45, 1.63, 3.00, .968, 1.667, 1.615. He had one good month.
ceetar
3/18/2010-9:06am at 9:06 am (UTC -4)
Oh, I agree a lot of what he was was unpolished, and I don’t think he was ready to start, and shouldn’t have been allowed to, especially after being int he bullpen probably took some of the polish and work off the other pitches. He’d struggled with those pitches anyway, so he obviously wasn’t going to be successful in the rotation. But what I liked about Parnell is he seemed to understand pitching more so than most rookies. You could almost see a stubbornness with the walks, where he was trying to get the pitch he needed to throw to work, rather than going back to relying on the fastball which he felt would get hit due to the way he’d set up the batter. As far as the ‘head stuff’ goes, I like Parnell, and hope he can get the other pitches to come around.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. My problem is that for most of the year he was just not good. People are misguided by the ERA but that’s not a very good judge for a reliever, it’s more of a judge of the guys behind you sometimes.
trs86
3/18/2010-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
As for Mejia, I too think AAA experience would be better however as stupid as it may be I am willing to trust the Mets to make the best decision for him because they know more about if he is ready than we do.
stickguy
3/18/2010-8:33am at 8:33 am (UTC -4)
Their heads are irrelevant to me. I only worry about keeping Mejia healthy and getting him up as a fixture in the rotation as soon as they can.
Maybe if he had all his other pitches fine tuned, and they just didn’t want to put a full SP load on him yet it would be different.
But when you here about needing some work on secondary pitches and control, combined with his age, it concerns me.
And I doubt there will be any rules. It will be Jerry pitching him every damn day until he comes up lame.
I also don’t see the Mets as that desperate for a BP arm, since they haven’t really sorted out the backlog yet.
so what can it hurt to let the kid go down to AA and get regular SP work in, see if the ST results will carry over into “real” BB, and give the pen a month to settle in?
If May 1 rolls around, and Mejia is kicking keister and owning AA, and none of the other options in the pen are getting the job done, then revisit the idea.
trs86
3/18/2010-8:40am at 8:40 am (UTC -4)
I see both sides. I just don’t think there will be any long-term effects to bringing him up now. I am ready to turn a new page and trust the Mets FO. Again if they screw it up then so be it. I still trust that they know more about their players and baseball than we do.
I also think there is about a 10% chance he makes the team.
prismo
3/18/2010-8:34am at 8:34 am (UTC -4)
If the Mets plan on Mejia being a starter next season, which way will leave him better prepared?
1. A full season of starting in AAA
2. A full season of relieving in the majors
I would think starting in AAA would develop his starting ability more, but I’m willing to be corrected if that may not be right.
stickguy
3/18/2010-8:36am at 8:36 am (UTC -4)
I agree with you in theory. But who knows, maybe being up on the big club with brains to pick like Santana will help him more?
ALthough not having a pitching coach on the ML club could hold him back…
trs86
3/18/2010-8:41am at 8:41 am (UTC -4)
It’s not like the Minors pitching coach is Leo either.
trs86
3/18/2010-8:41am at 8:41 am (UTC -4)
I think it would hurt his stamina for sure. As for his pitches, I am not so sure.
stickguy
3/18/2010-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
well, he looks like a horse. And a 20 YO pro athlete shold be able to handle the stamina part.
Jerry having him up 3 times every game to warm up, then come in to pitch to 1 batter, might take a toll on him though.
ceetar
3/18/2010-9:14am at 9:14 am (UTC -4)
It’s not so much the stamina, as the whole ‘innings progression’ thought. Don’t nkow how much truth there is to the whole Verducci effect, but might not want to mess with it unnecessarily.
prismo
3/18/2010-8:42am at 8:42 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, seems like there would be positives to each. Maybe it all evens out in the end and it doesn’t really matter either way? (which would mean putting him on the big league club most likely)
trs86
3/18/2010-8:45am at 8:45 am (UTC -4)
I really don’t think there will be any LONG-term effects. However, I still think because of a numbers crunch already baring any more injuries then Mejia will not make the MLB club. I don’t see the Mets losing guys like Nieve, Misch or figgy for keeping Mejia right now. Also, I think the effects of keeping Mejia and demoting Parnell would be tremendous on Parnell.
stickguy
3/18/2010-8:51am at 8:51 am (UTC -4)
I still like my idea of sending Parnell to AAA, and giving him a personal tutor, putting him on a crash training program to become a closer.
Figure out what his 2nd “out” pitch can be, then work the hell out of him to master it. And play with his mechanics and/or grip to get a little movement on the FB.
Might not be pretty at first, but if it works, then you have something very useful (you need an 8th inning guy? We can build it!)
And no way they can work on a transformation in the Mets pen, so you will just get more of the same.
So, you spin it as a positive, since you are grooming him as the closer of the future.
trs86
3/18/2010-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
LOL, perhaps. But to me if you are Parnell and you get ditched for a guy who is 20 years old and had 1/3 season in AA you gotta be a mental mess.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
if he is that unstable and mentally weak, he isn’t cut out for short relief anyway.
prismo
3/18/2010-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
But that describes 95% of closers!
trs86
3/18/2010-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
Very true.
ceetar
3/18/2010-8:56am at 8:56 am (UTC -4)
Both. Half a season starting in AAA, end the season in the Mets bullpen (if needed, etc.) This way he increases his yearly innings pitched, is stretched out and capable when he’s in the bullpen and gets the experience of pitching to big league hitters, in a pennant race, late in games.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
See I don’t like that order. My problem when you bring a guy up late in the year during a pennant race when he is pushing his limits for the first time it’s bad news. Instead of worrying about the kids arm you are worried about the game or perhaps the other way around.
ceetar
3/18/2010-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
If you bring him up at the right time, I don’t think you’re worrying about his arm.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
I just don’t know. I mean the kid has never pitched 100 innings in a season. Say you get him his 100 innings in AAA and then bring him up. Would not not be afraid his arm would start to tire in the middle of a pennant race?
ceetar
3/18/2010-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
Depends. He’s gonna have a targeting innings pitched anyway, so if you get him to what he had last year, send him to the Majors for the ‘extra’, hopefully he won’t really tire, although who knows right? suddenly pitching every day or every other day after starting..
and if we need to bring him up at that point in the bullpen, we’re probably in trouble.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I just never have liked it as a mid-season addition from SP for a kid at or near his innings limit. To me it’s too much for a manager to manage.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
we don’t need to give Jerry any more complications either.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
I agree, even an great manager struggles with that situation because you have all kinds of FO guys watching over your shoulder.
trs86
3/18/2010-8:49am at 8:49 am (UTC -4)
Here’s a question. Should they be considering bringing him in as the #5?
ceetar
3/18/2010-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
I’d rather consider that, except for the idea that if you ‘leap frog’ Niese, it probably wouldn’t be a good thing.
njstuckintx
3/18/2010-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
No. He’s shown a few months at best of finally having gained control of his pitches. Show me he can do that for a year and I’ll consider it. Plus, having never been stretched out, you can’t figure he would last the season as the #5. You’d prob. get half a season out of him and then he would dead arm out with all the work.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
Having NEVER been stretched out? Or do you mean this year?
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
obvoiously this year, after just pitching short relief in ST and then in the pen.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, so far. I am just saying in theory if they think he is ready should he be stretched out for #5 instead of setup.
njstuckintx
3/18/2010-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
This year. I know he’s started in the minors for a little while, but he’s young. I would rather him build up some stamina for another year in the minors in preparing for a 175+ inning year. Not thrusting him into the starting position and have him flame out after 135-145 innings. Yeah, I used thrust & flame in the same sentence. Sorry about that.
I fear going all Joba Rules on him will streamline him for being a bull pen guy. Granted if he turns out to be the 2nd coming of Mariano, I’d take it in a heartbeat, but I’d take the 2nd coming of Doc, sans the coke, in a fraction of a heartbeat.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
Yeah you would not be able to use him as a starter all year. Perhaps though you could send him to AAA to stretch out and then use him for 140 innings knowing you would have to replace him later.
njstuckintx
3/18/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
There is logic in them thar words.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:06am at 9:06 am (UTC -4)
I mentioned that on one of the earlier posts. If he is really ready, then let him be the #5. If he isn’t ready to handle that, he shouldn’t be in the pen either.
njstuckintx
3/18/2010-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
I’d say that having him around the big club would teach him some things, but the boy needs work. Getting 3 innings a week isn’t much work.
prismo
3/18/2010-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
He’ll warm up multiple times each day though, as Jerry has no idea how to manage a ballgame/bullpen.
njstuckintx
3/18/2010-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
He might actually get more innings of work in the BP then if he started a whole year in the majors!
trs86
3/18/2010-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
I guess we also have to factor in what he could learn from the big leagues during his side sessions.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
I didn’t think short relievers got side sessions? Don’t they just warm up all the time, even when they don’t pitch (at least with Jerry they do).
Sps get side sessions.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
I think relievers still throw too. If not used. I remember them talking about Krod’s sessions last year when he went like 10 days without being used.
saltygary
3/18/2010-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
There are plenty of arms to choose from in the bullpen, so I would rather not rush the kid. Put him in Buffalo and if he’s doing the same thing for a month then bring him up. That way the administration can say they didn’t rush him. Plus we all know one guy in the pen isn’t going to work out and this gives the team a little time to flesh out the right person to give the boot.
DN did an article on him as well:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2010/03/18/2010-03-18_mejia_blows_away_sox.html
njstuckintx
3/18/2010-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
And on a side note, there is no reason to start the ML clock on him until it’s necessary. I know that money shouldn’t be an issue for the Mets, but there is also no sense starting the clock earlier than necessary. We do have other somewhat capable guys to handle a spot in the bull pen, for sure.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think he is on the 40 man roster yet either, is he? If not, that means losing another guy off of that.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
I think there is still some dead weight there or guys who can be removed without consequences.
As for the ML clock it does not really matter that much if you believe he will be up for something this season.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
OK, some people are making the agruemnet that the Mets have a “hole” in the BP. I am not so sure, since they haven’t really sorted out the rest of the crew yet. But put that aside.
What about the SP though? So far, Johan, Pelf and Ollie look strong, and have pitched solid to excellent outings recently. So, that is a good sign, and 3 spots firm.
Taka2 has looked quite good, pretty much the only one of the #5 contestants that has. But, let’s assume that the 5 hole is covered OK.
That leaves Maine, who has not really looked good yet (although he professes to feel good). TRS has said a few times that he thinks Maine is hurt (or at least not quite right), and some reference was made elsewhere yesterday (MB maybe) about rumors of a “dead arm”.
So, say Maine does go down, suddenly you need another one of the spare parts in the rotation (or of course, you go out and find another SP).
Well, if there is a real possibility you might need a #6 (if not #7) not that far down the road, doesn’t it make sense to have your stud pitching prospect down in AA or AAA, getting stretched out, and finishing development of his full arsenal of pitches?
That way, if say Maine flames out on 6/1, you potentially have Mejia dialed in, and can call him up for a rotation audition.
is that more valuable than taking a shot on him working out as a short reliever?
I do know that on the open market, even a mid-rotation (say #3 with upside) SP is worth 5-10X what a set up man is worth.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
Very good point.
njstuckintx
3/18/2010-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Valid concern indeed. We’ve all seen how quickly one can put together a bullpen. And we’ve all seen how difficult it is to find SP of quality. Being prepared for the above scenario would be nice. Even if Maine starts throwing like Bob Gibson Incarnate, having a Mejia knocking on the door as another starter would be wonderful. I’ve never been a big fan of the bullpen to starter progression.
ceetar
3/18/2010-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
I think Maine is fine. Not hurt(I think his issues are fatigue and strength..please…i hope they manage him properly..), and won’t be, but we’ll see.
I don’t know if Meija gets first/6th call up, but..from the Mets stand point.
It’s June. Maine’s flamed out. The team is either
1. overinjured like last year and struggling.
2. behind the Phillies significantly and not pitching well.
3. leading the division.
If it’s 1. Fans are pissed. The only way to get people to the park at this point is prospects. June is too early to call it quits, but if guys are hurt and struggling, get use Davis, Martinez, Meija to watch.
2. is the only one I would consider not bringing up Meija, and looking to work the trade market for the missing pieces.
3. What better to energize the second half by bringing up our star prospect to get his feet wet?
trs86
3/18/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
When is his next start? Is it today?
ceetar
3/18/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Maine’s? or Meija’s? Not sure on either case. assume someone will tweet that shortly.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
Maine’s. Mejia just pitched yesterday so I would expect him to get the day off?
ceetar
3/18/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Tonight, Oliver Perez gets the start, followed by Hisanori Takahashi, Ryota Igarashi and Francisco Rodriguez.
night game.
trs86
3/18/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Hmmm, so I guess that would mean Maine is Saturday.
Mr North Jersey
3/18/2010-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
I think Jenry Mejia based on 8 inning of work has shown that coming out of the pen pitching no more than 1 or 2 inning at any time or better yet 1st time through the order he is hard to hit.
I do think that people are starting to get carried away with him. If he is this prized prospect that has the tools to be great shouldn’t the Mets make the best effort to be sure his 8 inning of work is not a fluke by letting him show he can do it at least through a month in real games in AA or AAA whatever they deem best?
Mejia has only now in Spring Training has showed the control the Mets are seeing having given up 0 walks so far.
As recently as Winter-ball Mejia’s control was still in question his numbers in the Arizona Fall League pitching for the Surprise Rafters as a starter was
14.1/IP 20/ER 13/BB 16/SO 2.65/WHIP
In Binghamton as a starter they were
44.1/IP 22/ER 23/BB 47/SO 1.51/WHIP
Unlike a player like Ike Davis who has shown growth from last season through Winter-ball and now in Spring Training one could make the argument for him to make the club if it wasn’t for the Mets commitment to Murphy being on the team.
Mejia’s body of work is 8.1 innings out of the pen. I think the Mets owe it to themselves to be sure they are not jumping the gun and allow Mejia to go down and show that he can continue to pitch like this in AA or AAA for a little longer before the Mets decide on bringing him up.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
excellent summary. I agree 100% with him going down for at least a couple of months to prove he is now for real.
Mr North Jersey
3/18/2010-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Thanks for the comment. Glad to see we are in agreement Stick.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
I think FANS should all be tempered with the small sample size. I think FO most likely would be looking at much more than just the results of the 8.1 innings. I would think they would be basing the discussion on his entire camp.
Mr North Jersey
3/18/2010-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
I’d hope so
trs86
3/18/2010-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
See I know we love to bash Omar and Jerry a lot. We have every right to. But we also have to assume they know more about their players and baseball than we do. It’s fine to criticize them but we have to admit if they are doing it then it’s because they feel like it’s the best move for the team.
Mr North Jersey
3/18/2010-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
???What are you talking about bashing jerry and omar???
???Criticize???
This is simply about do we feel Mejia is ready for the big club.
Everything they do I would hope is because they feel it’s the best move for the team. I’d hate to think that they are doing moves to hurt the team. That doesn’t mean every move is right.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
I am just saying that if they feel he is ready then we have to trust that he is.
Mr North Jersey
3/18/2010-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
see below
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
well, there is always the debate about ST and LT.
so maybe they are trying to “help” (get more wins) the 2010 team, even if it greatly decreases the odds of the 2011+ clubs being good.
Slamming Mejia into the pen now is not much different in concept from trading top prospects for a 1-year rental veteran.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
In the end they see and hear a lot of things we don’t that would help you determine if he is ready. Thus they are more prepared to make this decision than we are.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
I think we should just ask Rubin and see what he thinks, and go with that.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
LOL, our future player development guy? Sure.
Mr North Jersey
3/18/2010-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
The point is in the end this is Spring Training for Mejia he is a great talent for the Mets that deserves the time needed to show he can be consistently good. Especially with his control so let him go down and pitch in real games in the minors to see if he has finally got his control situation in check.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
And my point is that if the Mets feel he is ready then it will be based on much more than just these few innings that WE have seen him. Like it or not we will just have to trust that they will make the best decision.
Mr North Jersey
3/18/2010-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
Exactly we have to trust they make the right decisions we don’t have to agree with their decisions.
You hit the nail on the head.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
Right, but the problem is that we think that we know more about if he is ready or not when the only thing we have seen is most likely about 40 of the 100′s of pitches he has thrown this spring as well as the conversations he has had with coaches, players, managers, etc. I just think there is no way WE can tell if he is ready based on 8 innings but perhaps the METS can.
Mr North Jersey
3/18/2010-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
Again I would hope the Mets decision whatever it may be is the right one.
As a fan all anyone here does is make judgments on what we have seen.
If from now on we just did not comment on any player decisions because the club knows more about their guys than we do.
You would have very little to write or talk about.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think this is the same NJ. But you have a right to disagree obviously. For most players WE have a lot more information because we have seen them and have stats to back it up. MOST of us have seen Mejia throw about 40 pitches at most and some of us none.
Mr North Jersey
3/18/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Exactly having not seen Mejia enough we don’t know if he is ready or not. All we have is his numbers and based solely on that it doesn’t look like he should be up yet.
If the Mets feel differently we will soon know and hopefully they will make the right decision based on what they see overall.
As fans all we have is his stats and based on that it seems he deserves a little more body of work to show this Mejia we are seeing is no fluke.
trs86
3/18/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Yup, that is what I have said all along. Based on what WE have seen he needs more seasoning. Perhaps they will see something else based on much more than just 8 innings. I still think there is very little chance he makes it.
Mr North Jersey
3/18/2010-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
I’m glad we agree as fans based on what we have seen he needs more seasoning.
trs86
3/18/2010-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
How much have you got to see him NJ? I have not even seen him pitch other than youtube videos.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
and most likely in this case, if they botch it (either by keeping him up and having it be a disaster, or blowing him up by misuse (jerry), then one or both of Omar and Jerry will lose their jobs over it.
If anything, they safer move (job wise) is to start him in the minors. You can always call him up, but if you break camp with him, the bed is made.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
You could be right. That is why I am 90% sure he does not make the team. It’s just a story.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
It won’t be hard to find out.
Give him 10 games/60ish innings in AA (taking you probably into early June).
If he is dominating (10+K/9, a WHIP around 1.00), then you can probably say he is ready, and you might not want to waste more bullets in the minors. Then of course yo uhave to figure out where he fits on the Mets.
But, once you are into mid-June, you should have a handle on the overall pitching staff. And quite possible, someone has gotten injured our played themselves out of a job.
Opportunites have a way of opening up for talented players.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
Oh no doubt I agree. And based on what I have seen he needs to go back to the minors. Most likely AA as a starter. My point remains that the Mets FO gets to see a whole lot more than we do and if they feel he is ready it is based on much more than just these 8 innings.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
shouldn’t they count his winter league results too, complete with an ugly WHIP?
trs86
3/18/2010-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
Again, I don’t think the FO is really considering the “results” of any of those innings in ST or winter league. They may know if a pitcher is ready or not just by watching him pitch, talking with him and his teammates.
ceetar
3/18/2010-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
Yankees Tickets on sale tomorrow at noon. Guess I’ll try to score some Subway Series tickets, should any be available.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
I still think we are all making a bigger deal out of this than needed. I really believe he has about a 10% chance of making it and most of this is just hype. Keep your best pitching prospect up while he is doing great in ST to build interest by the fans and trade value for other teams.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
If they trade him now, unless it is something like Kirk N, Stoner and mejia for A Gon, then I think the fan base may riot.
The blogshere might explode if they trade him even up for Harang.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
Not saying right now Stick. For later purposes. Anytime a prospect does well infront of a lot of eyes they gain value. Not just because another team sees them but because of fan approval too.
Think about it this way, SD decides to trade AGonz. Not a very popular move in SD. They get back 2 guys in Davis and Mejia. Imagine if those guys had no media attention. Their fans would be rioting. However, because of the great spring those two have had and the hype surrounding them it makes it more likely another team would request them because it would appease their fanbase more.
njstuckintx
3/18/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
I’d hate to see those 2 go, but I’ll get them a nice card and a travel mug for their trip if it brought in the Gonz. Heeeeeyyyyy!!!
trs86
3/18/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
That would be a tough trade for sure. It would be a win now move for sure. I would try and expand the trade enough to get Young back too. But the thoughts of having Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Agonz, and Bay in the offense for at least 2 years is very appealing.
njstuckintx
3/18/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
I like Young. He’s definitely got some talent. I could see them moving Meija, Davis, Parnell + 1 other for Gonzi and Young.
I’m just not sure that Boston isn’t going to go all in on Gonz though. We’d prob have to go 5 for 2 and not sure they’d want our guys over Bostons. Time will tell…
And yes, that lineup would be ridiculous.
trs86
3/18/2010-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
Really if Boston is heavily involved I would rather stay out.
njstuckintx
3/18/2010-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
That would be one match I can’t see the Mets winning. They realize they really need another stick, and Mauer will re-sign, so that’s going to be their #1 target, I’m sure.
trs86
3/18/2010-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Perhaps, but they also have Beckett coming up. Depends on how Vmart does and what they do with him.
stickguy
3/18/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think their fans will get that upset. All 15 probably went to the beach anyway.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
LOL, you get my point though.
ceetar
3/18/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
Minaya’s said he’s going to AA, but Manuel contridicted him. Maybe this wasn’t so much insuborination as a calculated plot to get people talking about Meija making it, the positives of Mets prospects, and not about other stuff? I could see Minaya thinking that when not assigning him to the minors camp, but seems to shrewd for Manuel.
trs86
3/18/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
I agree and very much think this is the case. Really do we see the Mets rushing Mejia and losing some of the guys who are out of options?
asod75
3/18/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Hello all. Sorry I haven’t been on here in a few months. Was out of commission for awhile with a health ailment, but I’m back. I live in the Fort Myers area and attended the Mets-Red Sox game yesterday. I’ve written about it quite extensively in my blog here: http://asod75.wordpress.com/2010/03/18/report-from-mets-sox-game/
I address the Mejia situation and other Mets observations in detail. Hope everyone has had a wonderful winter and is ready for baseball (I know I am). I’ll see you guys soon back here in Real Dirtyland.
ceetar
3/18/2010-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
welcome back. glad you’er feeling better. I’ll take a gander at the post in a bit.
metsfan4decades
3/18/2010-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Same here, Asod.
trs86
3/18/2010-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
Asod? Who’s asod? Oh yeah I remember. LOL. Hope you are feeling better and welcome back.
Thanks for the link.
ceetar
3/18/2010-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
Rambling..Is there going to be anything worth listening to on the radio today, or am I stuck with music because it’ll be all pathetic amateur basketball stuff?
trs86
3/18/2010-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
Hey ACC country here buddy. That’s treason.
ceetar
3/18/2010-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
I don’t even know where the ACC is. I know Buffalo is in the MAAC and didn’t make the tournament. And that Cornell made it and is playing Temple. I filled out a bracket on Yahoo with ‘random’ and promptly forgot about it. bring on real sports. 18 days.
stickguy
3/18/2010-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
I saw that you aren’t big on college sports.
So, adopt Cornell and root for them to go to the sweet 16. That is an order.
stickguy
3/18/2010-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
don’t mess with with TRS and his ACC (atlantic coast conference) teams.
Those southern good old boys are big on their college sports.
Probably because they don’t have any pro teams to root for.
And yes, that was a dig on Atlanta.
ceetar
3/18/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
heh. Screw Atlanta. I just can’t get into rooting for college kids and high-turnover teams and things like that. And the system seems so unfair.
I could go on for days about how messed up the college sports system is. or NASCAR..can I just mock that? My new thing is to proclaim driving around Manhattan at rush hour takes more skill than race cars. (really, it’s just a different skill, but whatever)
trs86
3/18/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Don’t care about Atlanta at all. I don’t see the point on the system being unfair in college and although I am in the racing capital of the world I only take a passer by’s interest. Although I do disagree on the amount of skill needed. Just ask Danica.
ceetar
3/18/2010-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
I know it takes skill, It’s just fun to poke fun at. I think it draws interest because people can relate to it more, because everyone drives.
What also bothers me is when people say kids shouldn’t sign with the NFL/NBA and stay in school and get an education. So many of them get guarenteed money worth more than they’d make in 20 years of working with their ‘education’, even if they were truly studying and learning the (usually) b.s. fluff major they’re getting.
trs86
3/18/2010-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
The stupid rules that the NFL and NBA have that require kids to go to college should be unconstitutional. Either you require a DEGREE or you do not.
ceetar
3/18/2010-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
saw something about wanting them to graduate 40% of kids now. This just leads to more classes like “Calculus for Athletes” and this underhanded auto-A type classes to skirt the rules.
I’d rather they just pay the kids.
trs86
3/18/2010-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Hmmm, here is the true question though Ceetar. For the most part do you use that much of the classes you take in college in your normal job anyway? While they may take fluff classes and get a degree the degree matters much more in reality than the classes taken.
As a fan of UVA I will say after seen countless players being removed for academic reasons I think that some schools do a great job with these issues.
Most issues in college sports are caused by the pro sports.
ceetar
3/18/2010-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Hard to say, not having much insight into the specifics of many of these schools and what they do.
Personaly, I do use a lot of the skills, if not the specific knowledge, but my degree is more of a technical nature. And yes, the degree is what’s important because it’s all about name recognition. But there is something to the education, and if you’ve coasted through on fluff courses that you basically ignored and then spent three years trying to become a basketball player, and failed, are you really prepared to do anything successfully in the real world? and would you be hired? (Maybe in a good economy, but there are three years of fresher, more studious students out there now) I run/ran into a lot of this myself before landing this job (which won’t improve the situation), and it’s very very depressing. the General skills i learned in college are helpful, but people want fresh, new, and recently used stuff, and any excuse to not hire you works these days.
stickguy
3/18/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
ceetar, for the kids that only at a BB school to play BB, but are wholly unqualified to otherwise be at that school, what are they really missing? That is, many would not have gone to any kind of college (and sadder, often times not into a viable trade), so that group really doesn’t lose anything, and are probably still better off than if they just drifted off after HS into hanging out.
trs86
3/18/2010-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Agreed Stick. So much of college for an athlete is about motivation which if they develop that it is just as or even more important than anything they will learn in the class.
ceetar
3/18/2010-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
And that’s fine. But let’s stop pretending then. It’s a basketball ‘school’. It’s the minor leagues. Pay the kids. If they want to also get an education, make that available, but everyone makes a ton of money except the actual players. These kids are recruited solely to make the school money. They schools (the better ones at least) seek out the kids for the school, whereas college is generally the other way around.
trs86
3/18/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Ceetar a kid going to Duke for free is making more money a year than I do. LOL.
trs86
3/18/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Hey the Bobcats are making the playoffs baby.
trs86
3/18/2010-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
LOL that is just so foreign to me to not know where Duke, UNC, WFU, NCSU, UVA, Maryland, etc are.
Different upbringing. When I was in school it was an excused absence on the Friday of the ACC tournament. From 12:00 on the moved a big-screen tv in the hall and all the classes came out and watched.
ceetar
3/18/2010-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
I did go to a division 1a school. basketball team even made the NIT once while I was there I think. Went to two halves of a football game too.
trs86
3/18/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Went to school at a small DI school 8 miles from Virginia Tech. We made it one year and traveled to Arizona and lost to Duke by 40. LOL>
ceetar
3/18/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
I think Buffalo made the tourney once a couple of years ago. I don’t recall really, and I’d imagine they got slaughtered by whoever they played.
As stickguy says above, I almost do have a rooting interest. Cornell, and they play Temple (second cousin goes there), which is in my #1 most hated city.
ceetar
3/18/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
in fact, I’m going to go look up when they play.
stickguy
3/18/2010-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
Friday, 12:30, jacksonville.
Go big red!
GravediggerHebner
3/18/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Big Red?
No little gum freshens breath longer than Big Red.
So kiss a little longer, hold hands a little longer, hold tight a little longer. Longer with Big Red.
That Big Red freshness lasts right through it. Your fresh breath goes on and on while you chew it. Say goodbye a little longer; make it last a little longer. Give your breath long lasting freshness with Big Red.
Kingman 26
3/18/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Tomorrow 9:30 PM, GO U of Vermont Catamounts vs Syracuse!
Hey, we beat the Orange in 2005, let’s do it again!
Plus, Wynton Marsalis’ son Simeon is a freshman reserve point guard for us; does not play much, but hey, we got the jazz on our side!
GO CATS!!
ceetar
3/18/2010-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Big Red. It’s a bear.
I have to say though, some of the college mascots are completely ridiculous (And the names)
darknova306
3/18/2010-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
Few things bring me more joy than watching Cornell lose at something on the national stage. Even if I couldn’t care less about basketball.
stickguy
3/18/2010-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
then for your sake, I hope they make the sweet 16. And the Hockey team wins the NCAA championship too.
metsfan4decades
3/18/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
As much as I’d live to see Majia make the team in April for purely excitement purposes, I still believe he needs to start in AAA to work on his secondary pitches. Not often you have a pitching prospects who might turn out to be a top pitcher. How will he truly be given a shot to realize that if he works out of the BP this year?
Not sure our BP as currently constructed has as many holes in it as some are suggesting. I think this all depends on who gets the 5th starter role and who winds up in the BP. We’ve got options there so I suspect if some are struggling, we’re going to see the Heath Bell shuttle being utilized lots during the first two months…..
oleosmirf
3/18/2010-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
personally I think he should start in AA not AAA. He only had 10 starts in AA last year. I think he should start in Binghamton and then if he’s pitching well there call him up to AAA.
If the Mets are in the playoff race in august then you can call up Mejia and put him the MLB pen
stickguy
3/18/2010-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
agreed that he should start in AA.
after a couple of months and 10 starts or so, you should have a pretty good idea where he stands, and what the needs are on the higher level clubs, and go from there.
metsfan4decades
3/18/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
Good point about AA vs. AAA.
GravediggerHebner
3/18/2010-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Given there are at least 130 comments already (which I’ve read swiftly, not thoroughly) I imagine others have pretty much covered my thoughts/feelings on Mejia breaking camp with the Mets.
For me I know it’s not an absolute that covers all possibilities but I am cautioned by the example of Joba Chamberlain. The Yankees wanted him to be a starter long term but out of necessity made him a short reliever and for whatever reason, coincidence or not, he’s much less viable as a starter now.
If the Mets truly feel that long term for them Mejia is to be a starter (IMO a more valuable, difficult to find/develop commodity than a set-up man) then they should continue him on the development path to being a starter for them in a couple years.
In 2007 he threw 43 2/3 innings, 2008 71 2/3 and 2009 94 2/3. So he’s been making a nice slow steady progression building up. I would prefer they don’t stop that now largely because Kelvim Escobar turned up lame and Ryota Igarashi hasn’t set Port St. Lucie on fire. If counting on Escobar was a mistake, don’t compound it with another one.
Now if the Mets organization has at this stage determined that Mejia will not be a future starter for them, if they think his future is late inning relief and perhaps eventual successor to KRod, then I support their bringing him north April 5th and putting him in the set up role.
stickguy
3/18/2010-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
add his winter innings in too, and I think you get up to about 109. So, he likely goes up to about 130-140 this year. About 20-24 starts say.
still gotta be better than pitching 60 innings in 70 games.
metsfan4decades
3/18/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
I agree. My feelings though is no one has actually determined one way or another he won’t be a viable starter.
If we believe Omar, he goes back to the minors.
If we’re listening to Jerry, he’s got a shot at going North in April.
If we believe MF at all (which I heard yesterday) he’s going North as a reliever.