It’s quite funny, maybe it was because in 1980 I was such a young pup ( I was eight that April) and has repressed memories of that god awful season, or maybe it’s from the heavy drinking of my mid-teenage years that helped me forget. But when watching Mets Yearbook 1980 last night I had a flood of memories rushing back to me like a tidal wave of sewage rushing down a New York City gutter. It was awesome seeing the old footage ( Hey Nelson Doubleday looked more like Lee Iococca and Fred Wilpon looked less like the Crypt Keeper!). Seeing the likes of Doug Flynn, Lee Mazzilli, Steve Henderson and Mike Jorgensen playing again put a ironic grin on my face – as if I still believed that god awful slogan that was ” The Magic Is Back” No folks we weren’t fooled , we knew that this team was at best mediocre and at worst they were a team that even the Washington Generals could beat ( and they were a basketball team!) The 1980 Mets would go a putrid 67 – 95 which landed them in the cellar for the third straight year. But it’s funny, the one thing that I forgot about were all the injuries that the team sustained, and that the team for the first few months of the season were actually competitive. It is eerily similar to the ’2009 season with that the exception that last seasons team were expected to be in the thick of the post season, while the ’80 team was still expected to be – well bad. But if you look closely you could see alot of parallels, three fifths of both teams starting rotations were decimated by injuries. Both the ’80 team and last years edition saw one of their superstars and top run producers get sidelined for much of the season – ( Beltran’s knee and John Stearns finger) Both teams were looking for fresh starts the 1980 Mets were bought by Doubleday & Wilpon and they made major upgrades to Shea Stadium while the 2009 team christened the new state of the art Citi Field. But both teams saw futility, with the 2009 Mets losing 92 games , just avoiding falling into the cellar for the first time since ’94. The other parallel that I saw was all the highly touted prospects that were brought up that season such as Mookie Wilson, Hubie Brooks, and Wally Backman – these guys helped form the core ( or in Hubie’s case helped to procure Gary Carter)that would propel the Mets to the promise land in ’86, just like we hope that Ike Davis, Josh Thole , Fernando Martinez and Jenrry Mejia will help bring us there in the coming years. . But 2010 brings us a bigger sense of optimism with yesterdays news that Jose Reyes may be back for opening day. along with the acquisitions of Jason Bay and the Rod Barajas signing . 2010 might just be our 1986 all over again !
And with that said ….. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!!
                                                                                   
                                                  ” Welcome back Jose !! – NOW STAY HEALTHY !!!”
Happy Birthday wishes go out to Moises Alou’s uncle, and Former Mets outfielder from the ’75 team ,Jesus Alou is 68. (1942)
One time Mets killer for the Cardinals and the Phillies, Garry Templeton is 54 .(1956) Many fans don’t remember but he did finish his career with a whimper on the ’91 Mets as a reserve infielder/outfielder , batting a paltry .228 in 80 games.
New York Mets traded one time Los Angeles Dodger Derrell Griffith to the Houston Astros for infielder ( and future Mets coach ) Sandy Alomar on March 24, 1967. Griffith never played one game with the Mets.
New York Mets traded Bud Harrelson to the Philadelphia Phillies for Fred Andrews on March 24, 1978. Its funny I always thought that Bud retired as a Met. It is funny how time erodes the facts sometimes .
And don’t forget – there are just 12 Ron Darling 12 days until the Mets open the 2010 season against the Florida Marlins at Citi Field.
46 comments
stickguy
3/24/2010-7:51am at 7:51 am (UTC -4)
I graduated HS that year. No wonder I don’t remember the details. I do know that I loved the late 70′s-early 80′s team. I guess it was just the fact that I “grew up” with them (OK, learned to drink beer with them).
Another key difference? As they sit, the 2010 team is vastly more talented than the 1981 team was. But, nice parallel about the new crop of young guys coming up.
rustyjr
3/24/2010-8:06am at 8:06 am (UTC -4)
I loved the fact they were hyping mark ” bombs away ” bomback lol
stickguy
3/24/2010-8:14am at 8:14 am (UTC -4)
With a nickname like “boom boom” he had to be good!
Kingman 26
3/24/2010-8:45am at 8:45 am (UTC -4)
Wow, Stick is older than me by 4 years! I thought only Gategem and MF4D had me!
I sure do remember 1980 though, very well.
I remember the September callups, which were the best thing to happen since DDay in June 1977 when we traded Seaver and Kingman!
stickguy
3/24/2010-8:51am at 8:51 am (UTC -4)
Nope, I am old too. The float (how is that thing coming along anyway?) will qualify for AARP insurance soon enough.
Kingman 26
3/24/2010-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
The float is looking beautiful, really it is.
We do have sponsorships from Modern Maturity Magazine, Depends Undergarments, and a few retirement communities in FLA, so you will be fine.
stickguy
3/24/2010-8:00am at 8:00 am (UTC -4)
Got my fill of Met “bashing” (or in this case, total lack of respect) again today. Had on power alley on XM (pretty sure it was a repeat from last night, since the live shows don’t start until 7:00am).
Anyway, they were discussing the marlins needing to have to keep Hanley to have any credibility (and keep even their few fans) until the new stadium is ready.
The Met part came in when they mentioned the Phils too, and Seth Davis spouted off about the Phils, Braves and marlins “that’s your race right there. Just can’t give it to the Phils”.
No mention of the Mets at all as being in the mix (the Marlins? a few good players and a bunch of cheap). But, at least he didn’t throw the Nats in either!
rustyjr
3/24/2010-8:05am at 8:05 am (UTC -4)
Makes you wonder why we listen to sports radio at all – I think ne’er is the only dj that gives the mets a fair shake
Kingman 26
3/24/2010-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
I sure do wonder why you listen!
As the leader of my Seattle band used to insist we put on our CD liner notes, “For your safety and convenience, your stereo is equipped with an off button.”
CaseStreet
3/24/2010-8:06am at 8:06 am (UTC -4)
If anything, bringing up the junior core next year will allow Omar to extend the core and possibly bring in Lee or Beckett.
Kingman 26
3/24/2010-8:48am at 8:48 am (UTC -4)
Ah, the Junior Core! Use it well and use it often!
I hope it catches on along with my other catch phrase, about the Nattering Nabobs.
I also like the “Axis of Uncertainty” for MOP.
CaseStreet
3/24/2010-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
Soon we’ll need a TRDMB Lexicon
rustyjr
3/24/2010-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
Is that like the Klingon dictionary ?
metsfan4decades
3/24/2010-8:10am at 8:10 am (UTC -4)
The thing that sticks out in my mind the most about that ’80 season is how empty Shea was every time I watched a game. And probably good reason because that team was just awful. Their defense was so bad it was like watching the Keystone cops.
I remember the controversy too with the Wilpons buying the team outright. Doubleday had some really negative comments about Fred saying essentially he’ll just run the team into the ground. I remember thinking, ‘maybe, but how much worse could it get than it’s been the past 5 years or so?’
rustyjr
3/24/2010-8:14am at 8:14 am (UTC -4)
Yeah i remember my dad raking us those years and still buying upoerdeck nosebleed seats
rustyjr
3/24/2010-8:15am at 8:15 am (UTC -4)
*taking
stickguy
3/24/2010-8:19am at 8:19 am (UTC -4)
I loved being able to just show up 10 minutes before game time on a beautiful saturday, and being able to buy decent field box seats. And no line at the windows!
ceetar
3/24/2010-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
One of the downsides of the way baseball has gone, and the way the digital world controls things. (Not that I have much experience before that)
My father and uncle tell stories about jumping the fence to get into Yankee Stadium (pre-Mets days)
Kingman 26
3/24/2010-8:49am at 8:49 am (UTC -4)
I used to go with friends as a teenager to games with 5,000 people, and we would give the octogenarian ushers a few bucks and they would let us sit in the box seats!
stickguy
3/24/2010-8:13am at 8:13 am (UTC -4)
This I loved. I hope Jerry and especially Omar read it. And I would love to see Omar try to defend the other side!
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/3/23/1387075/jenrry-mejia-the-mets-and-the-media
I also liked the comment by this dude over on the Mets Minors blog. Some real strong stuff. I especially like how he calls out Jerry for pitching him back to back days in ST.
Comment by Not4Nuttin
2010-03-23 12:22:38
The Bob Feller comparison and Omar’s recently attributed quote about Johan Santana being a reliever to start his career fall more under the category of “Things I’ve read and HATE!â€
Lets start with Omar first and in no particular order (and to be clear, I am not an Omar basher, though he does sometimes absolutely confound me and as time goes by, I have less and less faith in his ability to run an organization
1. Pointing to an isolated example (Johan) of when it arguably worked, does not provide support for ignoring the general rule of coddling a 20 year old pitcher (who has been pitching all of 5 years?).
2. Johan only pitched in relief because he was a Rule V selection and had to be kept on the ML roster the whole season.
3. Even as a reliever, Johan was basically coddled, pitching every several days on average. For instance, he pitched on April 3, 7, 12, 22, 30, then May 5, 15, 21, then June 3, 6, 14, 17, 18, 23. Why does Manuel have a need to see whether Mejia is capable of throwing back-to-back days in mid-March? And why is Minaya letting him do so? Protect the kid first for crying out loud! If you are really going to rely on the Twins’ using Santana in relief in 2000 as precedence, how about actually paying attention to exactly how they used Santana?!? Mid-June is the first time he pitched back to back games. Then he did so again in back-to-back-to-back games in early July (2nd, 3rd and 4th) followed by a 10 day break, then back-to-back in mid July (14th, 15th) and never again the rest of the season – July use (2,3,4,14,15,22,30), August use (1,10,16,30) and Sept use (5,10,16,21,27).
This one really gets me. How lazy to point to an example and ignore the details behind it? This does not reflect someone who is taking a long term or thoughtful approach to his job.
4. Whether you agree with it or disagree with it, teams basically coddle pitchers, at least compared to how they treated them in the past, with pitch counts, and innings counts, etc. They do it because they apparently believe that it increases their return on investment by minimizing the stress that is put on a pitchers arm. Funny thing is that much of the coddling disappears once a pitcher is thrown into the bullpen. Relievers, by and large, are thrown out to pitch as often as they can, so long as they are effective. While I have found pitch counts and the disappearance of pitchers finishing what they started, I find it more perplexing that teams seemingly just abandon this coddling approach to pitchers once a pitcher proves they cannot start and are “only†relievers. Some pitchers have rubber arms and can throw many days in a row, but generally that is not something you ask of young pitchers, especially starters who are elite prospects. So all this begs of the question of JUST WHAT THE HECK IS MEJIA DOING PITCHING BACK TO BACK DAYS IN MID-MARCH? AND WHY WOULD YOU PUT HIM IN THE PEN?
There is more, but I’ve already stretched this too long.
How many other stud young pitchers in the past 10-20 years started out in relief
Pitching in relief Johan prove anything, other than that perhaps that isolated example is the exception to the rule. In other words, play the odds for crying out loud.
»
trs86
3/24/2010-8:41am at 8:41 am (UTC -4)
Didn’t say much that we have not already said.
Again, I don’t like the idea but I don’t think it’s damaging at all. I am actually to the point of being tired of discussing it. If Omar and the METS feel he is ready he will be here. If not he won’t. Like we said yesterday if Escobar and Iggy were lights out this is not even a discussion.
ceetar
3/24/2010-8:48am at 8:48 am (UTC -4)
Omar does this a lot, points to an example to support the question. However, it’s not something he always believes, it’s more a way of saying “Hey, this isn’t Totally Evil, things like this have been done before.” That’s not to say they’re going to do things like that, just that they’re not ruling it out.
As much as I think Mejia should be starting in AA, I want my GM to consider all options.
And, the big thing here, is that they completely bash Omar for using a past example to make a decision, but ..
“does not provide support for ignoring the general rule of coddling a 20 year old pitcher”
IT’S NOT A RULE! It’s a theory. Just like moneyball is a theory/strategy but by no means the only way to do things. or the best. And each pitcher is different! Don’t apply a blanket set of rules or ideas to everyone and assume they’re going to work (Peterson’s problem with the Mets pitching staff, IMO). Some guys, even some young guys, could probably throw 100 pitches every 3 days when they’re 20 and have no ill effects. Some ‘properly progressed’ pitchers at 27 could throw 90 every five and develop pitching problems.
trs86
3/24/2010-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. All of this bashing of the idea like it’s the most stupid idea in baseball and only a buffoon would think of it garbage has actually almost persuaded me to go in the other direction and support it. LOL.
I still don’t like the idea but it’s not cut and dry.
We have accused Omar and the Mets of not doing everything possible to win THIS season and now when it’s possible they believe that adding Mejia to the pen will help THIS season we crucify them for it. Just settle down and lets discuss this idea more when we first know if it’s going to happen and 2 under what circumstances it will be allowed to happen.
Everything I read goes under the premise that starters are more valuable than relievers and or this could hinder his development. Neither has to be true. Mejia as a RP on this year’s Met team is worth far more money than Mejia as a AA SP THIS year. Down the road it could cost you one year of SP on the major league level at a higher price. We are the Mets why should we be worrying about an arbitration clock for a kid that they believe can help this year. So to me that one is out.
Now the development issue. IF they leave him as a reliever all year and do not send him back to stretch out he can still get his innings in winter ball. Innings are not a concern. They should not use him often on back to back days in my opinion but there’s most likely no actual study that we have hands on that proves this damage. I know that Leo had his starters throw everyday. They should let him develop his off-speed pitches but who says that they won’t? Jerry’s quote was in my opinion completely taken out of context by people looking for a reason. Jerry did not say that Mejia should not use his breaking pitches, he said that he needs to rely on his cutter and not the breaking pitches. He should throw MOSTLY cutters not ALL cutters. Well duh? That does not hinder his development. Do you think he should be throwing 50/50? LOL.
I am just growing weary of this argument. I want him to start in AA but stop acting like this is the end of the world and some vast mistake that only the Mets would make.
Kingman 26
3/24/2010-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
He could be the organization’s most important young arm since Kazmir and Gooden.
Why let him sit in the pen and be used potentially irregularly?
He DID NOT light up AA ball or winter ball, and is being judged by 11 March innings.
It is pretty nutty.
He should–even if for just 2 months–pitch every 5th day, and go 6, 7, 8 IP.
Then, if he is 10-1 with great stats, sure, bring him up and ease him.
trs86
3/24/2010-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
I agree he SHOULD be but lets not pretend that it’s illogical for him not to be. It’s a baseball decision that could go either way and is in the gray area not white or black.
ceetar
3/24/2010-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
I still think the Mets should grab Leo, for that matter.
no, not 50/50. But I don’t want him to never throw those other pitchers, in fact, not throwing them would make him less effective. I’ll play the wait and see game. Just like I didn’t crucify Omar for every free agent that signed el sewhere, I’ll wait until the chips are down before I evaluate.
trs86
3/24/2010-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
Exactly, we will have some many things to crucify Jerry for later. Why do it for something he has not even done yet?
ceetar
3/24/2010-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
well, it’s at the point that I just assume Manuel will make the wrong decision. I went into last season being skeptical and willing to give him a clean slate. He failed me.
Why the Mets need a captain (incoming post later this week!)
stickguy
3/24/2010-8:17am at 8:17 am (UTC -4)
This line I just had to pull out of the above and give it a special post: ” How lazy to point to an example and ignore the details behind it? This does not reflect someone who is taking a long term or thoughtful approach to his job.”
Zing baby. Hope that gets tossed out at the next presser!
Man, this has me real annoyed this AM. Could get ugly if the wrong post comes up!
stickguy
3/24/2010-8:22am at 8:22 am (UTC -4)
Oh well Last rant on the Mejia topic.
I dare you to find any other team that would take their best SP prospect, only age 20, still a little raw and with only a handful of starts at AA, and turn him into a middle reliever to start the season.
No other team would be that idiotic.
Different story if they are nearing their innings max later in the year, and they come up to help out a little in the pen (getting minimal use).
But since it is close to a guaranteed certainty that Jerry will roll him out 3 days in a row sometime in April, how can this possibly be a good ide?
rustyjr
3/24/2010-8:26am at 8:26 am (UTC -4)
If he does break camp with. The mets I hope he dominates but we all know he belongs in AA or AAA to start the year
metsfan4decades
3/24/2010-8:29am at 8:29 am (UTC -4)
To answer your last question: IMO, it’s not….
I basically said the same thing you are when I saw those quotes by Omar yesterday. He can’t compare Johan’s situation with Majia’s – it’s not even remotely the same. And the fact that he did is scary. Either it is laziness – as you pointed out – or he really thinks the average fan is clueless. Many of us Met fans already knew the basic facts on Johan’s background so when he made that statement, we went back to the stats to confirm somewhat what we already knew.
Does Omar really think most fans just watch the games and take at face value everything that FO is spouting? If yes, just goes to show you how out of touch they are with the fans….
trs86
3/24/2010-8:44am at 8:44 am (UTC -4)
I think the Johan comparison is a broad one, I don’t think he is saying that this kid is Johan. I think he is implying that their long-term intentions are on him being a starter but feel like he is ready to help the team in the bp this year. We can disagree with the logic but we have to admit that there is logic there. It’s not some hair-brained idea that has to go wrong just because we don’t like it.
ceetar
3/24/2010-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
no. Obviously the kid is Mariano. Geeze, get with the picture.
stickguy
3/24/2010-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
If he non-FB pitches are actually ready enough for prime time, then he should be getting looked at for the rotation.
The only real logic for the Pen was having a lights-out FB but weak secondary pitches. If that isn’t the case, why waste time screwing around with the pen?
trs86
3/24/2010-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
Because he can help them win and is better than anyone else not named Krod in the pen? Again I don’t know this to be true but perhaps they believe this.
Also, no one ever said his secondary pitches were ready but no one ever said he could not work on them with the MLB team either. It all depends on how he is used. If you want to assume he will be misused that is your right but it is not predetermined.
metsfan4decades
3/24/2010-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
Agreed – that really wasn’t my argument though.
More that Omar makes these types of comments that I believe sometimes are not really well thought out. He either needs to stop defending himself, or…if he’s going to make sure his argument is sound. ‘Cause IMO, what he said yesterday about look at Johan, he started out in the BP, was flawed thinking that we’re all just going to say ‘Oh, O.K., everything will work out then’….
ceetar
3/24/2010-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
Omar definitely thinks (and is right in many cases) that he’s smarter than us.
Kingman 26
3/24/2010-8:54am at 8:54 am (UTC -4)
Using Mejia as a 3rd or 4th guy out of the pen, especially the way Jerry uses the pen and taking into consideration that Jerry ADMITTED last year making decisions based on his job status, is alarming, revolting, and wrong.
So instead of Mejia pitching on a regular schedule, every 5th day, and going 6 a few times, then stretching out little by little to 7 and 8 inning stints over a few months, he is going to be in the pen, used irregularly, NEVER get to pitch more than 1-2 innings, etc.
Absolutely insane, and shockingly irresponsible, even for these guys. I do support Omar and think he gets a bad rap, but trusting Manuel and Warthen to even have input into this situation is ludicrous.
Even if Mejia COULD be the next Mariano, wouldn’t it be preferable if he was the next Bob Gibson instead?
ceetar
3/24/2010-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
I have to wonder if this all thing is a way of trying to challenge someone else to step up. In the end, i still think Mejia goes down.
Kingman 26
3/24/2010-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
Nice analysis….let us pray it is correct.
rustyjr
3/24/2010-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
Totally agree btw kong I need a discount on the return to forever DVD lol
Kingman 26
3/24/2010-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
We have live at Montreux 2008, ALWAYS at a discount at ejazzlines.com!
rustyjr
3/24/2010-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
Free copy ?
CaseStreet
3/24/2010-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
true. Jerry’s idea of leadership is asinine.
GravediggerHebner
3/24/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
I agree with your point about the injuries Rusty, I had completely forgotten about them which is really odd because at that (sad, pathetic) stage of my life I kept a composition notebook in which I scored EVERY game that I could from either TV, radio or the rare in person visit, and yet I just didn’t recall these guys being gone. Must be because I was experimenting a lot with drugs and alcohol.