More innings for Mike Pelfrey only meant more hits for the Cards as St. Loo roughed up the big man today at Tradition Field. It has been an ugly spring training for Mike as he raised his ERA to 7.97 giving up 6 ER and 12 Hits in 5 2/3.Â
I think there has to be a lot of eyes on Pelfrey especially in the beginning of the year. Pelf needs to show he hasn’t lost his mental toughness and that he can rebound from the poor season and the criticism he received along with it last year, after winning 13 games in ’08.Â
Frankly, I think I am a little tired of hearing the Mets camp rave about his “potential” and his so called “tools”, and need to see actual improvement from our #2.   We expect a #2 to go deep in ballgames on a fairly consistent basis, often dominate the game rather than just keep us in it. Pelf hasn’t distinguished himself as anything better than a back end starter since he has been here.Â
I am not saying Pelf will not turn into a great pitcher, the jury is still out, but his leash is growing shorter and shorter here in NY (NY leashes are notoriously shorter than most) . If Met fans don’t see better results this year the boos could rain down. If Pelf gets off to a rough start we might hear his name involved in a few mid-season trade rumors while he still has some worth. It is going to be an interesting first half of the season for the Big Guy.
47 comments
njstuckintx
3/28/2010-6:23pm at 6:23 pm (UTC -4)
It’s scary to think Pelf is our number 2. I’m just as guilty as most here in thinking he could be a #3 pitching as a #2 (for those who put a 1-5 on pitchers). He may be no better than a 4. MOP are going to increase my Tums intake this year, for sure.
Mr North Jersey
3/28/2010-7:33pm at 7:33 pm (UTC -4)
Would Pelf’s homers that he gave up today be gone at Citi Fields?
Kingman 26
3/28/2010-7:40pm at 7:40 pm (UTC -4)
It doesn’t even matter…he fooled no one and looked abominable, with one remaining spring start.
He has no out pitch, and I still have yet to understand how a big, strong guy who throws so hard can get lit up like this so often.
rustyjr
3/28/2010-8:30pm at 8:30 pm (UTC -4)
He did suffer from weak defense
njstuckintx
3/28/2010-10:53pm at 10:53 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe not in Citi, but what about when he’s pitching in Cincy, or Philly?
Kingman 26
3/28/2010-7:37pm at 7:37 pm (UTC -4)
As co-sponsor of the Parade of the Purveyors of Partial Positiviality and as a charter member of the Catatonic Optimists, I must say that I am now extremely worried about our pitching.
We have Johan, KRod, Feliciano, and a group of large question marks of various size, speed, and nationality.
I love our offense, our speed should be excellent, and our defense will be surprisingly good I feel as well; Wright looks ready to return to his pre-2009 form, Jose should be the most eager he has ever been to succeed, Bay and Frenchy look good, Pagan and Matthews look good, Slappy looks good, and the bench should be strong.
Pitching is going to kill us. Pelf looked like crap today; spring or not, he has one more spring start, and he looks like garbage with a capital SUCK.
stickguy
3/28/2010-8:12pm at 8:12 pm (UTC -4)
do you like him even less than Carter?
remember the mantra: ST doesn’t count. Still working on things.
the regular season will be much better. Trust me. i got your back on this one.
Kingman 26
3/28/2010-8:41pm at 8:41 pm (UTC -4)
LOL! Hey, I don’t dislike Carter; I just think he may be the offensive version of Figgy.
And I am going to pour a large glass of Woodford’s, and repeat “ST doesn’t count. Still working on things” until I believe it applies to Pelf today.
Hazmet
3/28/2010-8:17pm at 8:17 pm (UTC -4)
Not that this is going to help since the line was so ugly but in his comments to Burkhardt the statements were that the past 2 games he’s been working on all his secondary pitches he’s been adding this year. Today he didn’t throw any Sinkers. So Pelf a Sinker ball Pitcher didn’t throw any Sinkers today. On the secondary pitches he was using he was trying to pound it into the strike zone and was getting all the foul off’s for strikes then the HR’s were hit when after the foul off’s he went to his 4 seam fastball and got them up in the zone and they were hammered. Not trying to be Polyanna here but a) at least he had a plan, and b) at least he’s using ST for what your supposed to which is working on adding improvements. Also, as bad as it was he was at 90 odd pitches in the 6th while working on stuff.
No, I’m not happy with the line and yes his last 2 performances scare me too. But if he hasn’t been featuring his feature pitch well I don’t know what to think. What I’m expecting next is he will feature his sinker and he’ll be too strong and it won’t sink, stay up and whamo. Let the rollercoaster continue.
Kingman 26
3/28/2010-8:43pm at 8:43 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks for this! Was half-paying attention to the game while working.
If true, then hell yeah, forget what I wrote above.
Stick, PLEASE accept my apologies–after all, I have been saying “ST doesn’t count. Still working on things†for a month now!
Hazmet
3/28/2010-8:47pm at 8:47 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with your comments above also to a large degree. Under the category of “just because your working on stuff you can still get guys out”. Rusty’s right too a couple of play’s were kind of bleechh behind him. He also got squeezed on a couple of strike 3′s on the outside corner but you gotta expect those kind of things at anytime.
stickguy
3/28/2010-10:20pm at 10:20 pm (UTC -4)
no problem. We’re all good.
metsfan4decades
3/28/2010-9:55pm at 9:55 pm (UTC -4)
Oh, and reading Marty Noble’s latest post about Pelf’s performance today and his post game comments – goes along with your thoughts above.
The Cardinals produced three hits in the first two innings, but two were the ground ball variety, the kind more consistent with the pitcher’s resume. Pelfrey threw two-seamers and the splitter he now embraces as his primary offspeed pitch.
“He changed to four-seamers after that,” pitching coach Dan Warthen said. “Probably not a good idea.”
By the time his pitching coach explained, Pelfrey already had testified in his own belhalf. “I’m so pleased with secondary pitches,” Pelfrey said, “I thought I’ll work on my four-seamer. Not because I’m going to throw it a lot, but just so I can make it better … much better. You know, I’m gonna face these guys pretty early [the Mets and Cardinals are to play three games April 16-18.] I don’t want to give away any secrets now.”
metsfan4decades
3/28/2010-8:35pm at 8:35 pm (UTC -4)
Not sure how much more I can add to all the comments from you guys before me. You’ll get no arguments from me NJstuckintx, Kingman or Hazmet….
All are legit concerns. About the best thing I can say right now is at least they all look healthy.
Why is it so hard to find good pitching these days? And I’m not looking for 4 aces just some consistent, solid, keep us in the game type pitching.
As Hazmet commented above, here’s hoping they all used ST to ‘tinker’ and they’ve got a plan come opening day.
Hazmet
3/28/2010-8:40pm at 8:40 pm (UTC -4)
If we’re counting on my thoughts were dooommmmeed.;)
But thanks.
Last thought, we play the Cards the second week of the season. I just assume Pelf showed them nothing today so they have less to go on in a couple of weeks. This is also why Santana is pitching against the minor league squad on Tuesday instead of the Cards. They don’t want to give the Cards anymore of a look then they’ve already had this spring.
metsfan4decades
3/28/2010-9:36pm at 9:36 pm (UTC -4)
Good point. I heard the SNY booth discussing that the other day during a game – limiting the ‘look-see’ these teams get with Johan before the season. Keith said it was different back in his day b/c there were about 8 teams there on the east coast within driving distance. Now there’s like 4.
I’m just bummed b/c with the team Omar put together this year, youth, talent (like a REAL LF for a change), major league experienced catchers – it’s going to come down to pitching that will make or break it. I just hope if the MOP isn’t doing well, we can stay in the race until mid season. Hopefully Omar will be able to make a deal for a pitcher that he wasn’t able to during the off season.
Of course, the problem then will be maybe having to sacrifice one of the prospects we’re looking forward to seeing next year.
ceetar
3/28/2010-9:39pm at 9:39 pm (UTC -4)
That’s all spring is about. Health. That was a big question mark going into the season, and it’s one that’s basically been put to bet in the case of Reyes, Santana, Maine, Perez, Francoeur, Cora, etc.
It’ll count soon enough. We’re gonna be in the mix.
metsfan4decades
3/28/2010-9:46pm at 9:46 pm (UTC -4)
Hmmmm……According to MC’s latest post, Adam Rubin reports Parnell and Green will likely start in AAA which means speculation is Taka2 and Figgy make the BP.
I don’t know how I feel about Figgy making it over Parnell. Best case scenario now is Parnell goes to AAA for some much needed tinkering, gets command over a secondary pitch or two and control of the 96 mph fb and rejoins the team in a few months.
However, Green not making that BP come opening day is absolutely the right choice.
DNDJohan aka kistics
3/28/2010-10:16pm at 10:16 pm (UTC -4)
MC also says the last spot will be between Mejia and Calero..
so….
KRod
Iggy
Feliciano
Taka2
Nieve
Misch
Figgy
Huh???? That’s already 7
Does this mean Nieve or Misch will get cut too? what the heck?
stickguy
3/28/2010-10:25pm at 10:25 pm (UTC -4)
add in calero, and subtract 1 of Misch or Figgy. preferably figgy, but their call.
GravediggerHebner
3/28/2010-10:31pm at 10:31 pm (UTC -4)
Apparently the rumor is the team is going to cut Misch at the last possible moment before rosters must be established, limiting his chances to be claimed elsewhere because all the other teams rosters will be essentially set too.
I wonder how he feels about that? Either way, to me it’s a choice of poking myself in the left eye with a pointy stick in keeping Misch, poking myself in the right eye with a pointy stick by keeping Figgy, or poking myself in both eyes with pointy sticks by keeping both of them. Yay!
stickguy
3/28/2010-10:35pm at 10:35 pm (UTC -4)
yeah, teams try that every year. Sometimes it even works. I figure Omar will screw it up, or even if he times it just right, some other team will still take him.
Really not that big of a loss, but I still think I would take Misch if I had a choice of the 2.
metsfan4decades
3/28/2010-10:38pm at 10:38 pm (UTC -4)
LOL
So if this rumor is true, we’re looking at?
KRod
Pedro
Iggy
Nieve
Taka2
Calero
Figgy
Outside of KRod and Pedro, this BP is almost as uproven as the starting rotation after Johan
Scary times….
trs86
3/28/2010-10:41pm at 10:41 pm (UTC -4)
Eh, like I said earlier today we trotted Parnell and Green out almost 150 times last year. Neither are good enough to make this year’s pen. Doesn’t that say something?
Calero as long as he is healthy is very proven. And how can you say that Figgy is unproven. He is very proven….
metsfan4decades
3/28/2010-10:46pm at 10:46 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll agree about Calero. Where I was going with him is health.
But Figgy? I just keep going back to if he was proven ML talent, he would have stuck somewhere about 10 years ago….
I don’t hate him all together like some do….but I just have a real hard time associating Figgy with solid, consistent arm for the BP. I hope I’m wrong. If they’re going with Figgy, I’d like nothing better than to see him put together a year he keeps telling us he’s capable of.
Maybe their thinking of going with Figgy is b/c of MOP. One thing Figgy does do well is gets ready in a hurry if need be…..
stickguy
3/28/2010-10:47pm at 10:47 pm (UTC -4)
Calero was perfectly healthy last year. And I think was fine in 2008 too 9but don’t quote me on that). he also has no current injuries, so not really sure why you need to worry about him any more than any other pitcher.
metsfan4decades
3/28/2010-10:58pm at 10:58 pm (UTC -4)
O.K. – even better.
Thought I read when we signed him he was coming off some minor off season surgery. I obviously have him confused with someone else we were thinking of signing for the BP.
GravediggerHebner
3/28/2010-11:02pm at 11:02 pm (UTC -4)
My understanding of the Calero situation, which could be completely wrong (I can’t locate material to back this up), is that the Marlins “fear” his shoulder acting up so they decided to part company, but there is nothing actually wrong with him right now, unless you consider his signing late and thus being behind in building up strength to be something wrong.
I liken it to a very cheap team’s version of the Red Sox refusing to re-sign Bay because they “fear” his shoulder/knee/personality will break.
trs86
3/28/2010-11:06pm at 11:06 pm (UTC -4)
Calero did not sign until late this off-season because of injury concerns.
“Calero lingered on the free-agent market over the winter after a terrific season with the Marlins because of concerns about his right shoulder, which he injured in 2007.”
“Marlins are cautious about signing Kiko Calero because of risk that the veteran’s right shoulder may not hold up like it did in ’09″
“Two execs I asked about Kiko Calero last week said his medicals were trouble.”
Just various things I pulled from his MLBTR files. For sure one of the low risk high reward guys.
asod75
3/28/2010-11:42pm at 11:42 pm (UTC -4)
He missed 18 games before the All-Star game last year with a shoulder problem. He’s hurt just about every year. Very effective when in there, but injury-prone nonetheless. And Igarashi looks awful.
trs86
3/28/2010-11:00pm at 11:00 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, my point with Figgy is that he has proven over and over again to not be MLB caliber.
Anyway, as for Calero yeah there are some injury concerns. That is why he was not signed until the last minute. There were concerns to finish the year last year.
metsfan4decades
3/28/2010-11:14pm at 11:14 pm (UTC -4)
lol – yeah, I figured that’s where you were going with Figgy. Anyone who reads here regularly knows your stance on the man Amazin Ave is now calling ‘SwingBlade’….
stickguy
3/28/2010-10:46pm at 10:46 pm (UTC -4)
having 3 proven guys is actually pretty good for a pen.
and when some of the others actually seem to have talent or “stuff”, it doesn’t really concern me that much.
trs86
3/28/2010-10:34pm at 10:34 pm (UTC -4)
Looks like it’s going to my gun to the head scenario that NJ ripped me for.
Krod, Iggy, Pedro, Calero, Taka, Nieve, Figgy/Misch
It makes NO sense to me at all to keep Figgy over Misch. I can’t find one stat that shows Figgy to be a better pitcher. What we do know is that Figgy does not get claimed when released yet we do know there is a good chance Misch will.
I refuse to believe this until it actually happens. I could actually justify keeping Parnell up and losing both Misch and Figgy before I could even begin to justify keeping a 35 year old journey man over a 27 year old journey man with equal at worst stats.
asod75
3/28/2010-11:43pm at 11:43 pm (UTC -4)
I see no real reason to keep either of them, but oh well. Don’t like the looks of this pitching staff, but at least it looks like they’re doing the right thing and sending Mejia down. That’s a very sound decision.
stickguy
3/28/2010-10:33pm at 10:33 pm (UTC -4)
Jeez, MOP might just put a few of the regulars into the ICU. Gotta take a step back and relax a little.
Right or wrong, but these are the guys we are starting the year with. Who knows who we finish with though! If I had to guess, by September, the rotation will have 1 guy currently in the minors, and 1 from outside the system, playing big roles. Just don’t ask for names yet.
but, as noted above in various ways, you can’t read too much into ST. The primary goal is to stay healthy (and for pitchers, build up pitch count and arm strength). And the “big 4″ (big 1 and medium 3?) seem to have done just that. So from that standpoint, the team is ready to go for the season (just short Beltran, and hopefully at full strength by May 1).
And no, I do not know what MOP will produce this season. I do have higher expectations it seems than many others. But bottom line, we need to actually play some games to know, and at least IMO it would be good to get a month into the season before writing it off due to ineffective pitching!
anyway, if ST really is a barometer to the season, for the Phils Hamels is going to make Pelf’s 2009 look good, and Moyer is going to win the Cy Young award.
When the Mets start the season 10-2, remember you heard it here first.
trs86
3/28/2010-10:35pm at 10:35 pm (UTC -4)
I am hoping for 7-5 myself. LOL.
stickguy
3/28/2010-10:37pm at 10:37 pm (UTC -4)
7-5 doesn’t sound that spectacular, but if they can keep up that pace, it works out to 94 wins.
I will take that!
GravediggerHebner
3/28/2010-10:39pm at 10:39 pm (UTC -4)
10-2? Don’t forget the “pass” part of puff, puff, pass.
I always have and will continue to marvel at and admire your optimism, but when the first 12 games are:
3 vs. FLA
3 vs. WAS
3 @ STL
3 @ COL
even if sweeping WAS (likely Maine, Niese & Santana vs. Mock, Livan & Marquis) I don’t see 10-2…
stickguy
3/28/2010-10:44pm at 10:44 pm (UTC -4)
fine, mr. wet blanket. 8-4 worst case.
GravediggerHebner
3/28/2010-11:04pm at 11:04 pm (UTC -4)
Give me my wet blanket back. I threw it on you because of all that smoke coming from you when you forgot to pass.
Kingman 26
3/28/2010-10:47pm at 10:47 pm (UTC -4)
“Don’t forget the “pass†part of puff, puff, pass.”
HAHAHA!!!!!!
trs86
3/28/2010-10:36pm at 10:36 pm (UTC -4)
By the way Gaudin signed with the A’s. Don’t know if we caught that or not.
GravediggerHebner
3/28/2010-11:32pm at 11:32 pm (UTC -4)
Saw that. Was much more concerned with the Mets waiving Chris Coste off the 40-man roster. Hopefully it’s to make room for someone other than Mejia. Maybe one of Carter/Jacobs/Cat? Probably Takahashi. Also maybe indicates Santos is not being traded/released. Not enamored of the idea of Santos tutoring Thole. Shawn Riggans power, activate!
trs86
3/29/2010-7:42am at 7:42 am (UTC -4)
Honestly I expect Coste to clear and report. Most likely just giving him the vet option of trying to pursue an MLB gig first.
stickguy
3/29/2010-7:58am at 7:58 am (UTC -4)
saw something before that the Nats might have taken him?
What is it with them and former Met catchers?
stickguy
3/29/2010-7:57am at 7:57 am (UTC -4)
related to Pelfrey, I saw a post elsewhere that said Ronnie was commenting during the game that Pelf wasn’t finishing his pitches (using his big body to drive through them essentially). This caused his pitches to stay somewhat flat and hittable.
Quite possible. I coached little league, and some of the kids (my son loved to do this) had the same problem. You don’t drive through, and you really don’t get any action on the ball.
Makes you wonder though if the Met’s lump of a PC sees it, and if so, obthers to try and do anything about it.
Sometimes I think if the Mets canned the coaches, and just let Ron and Keith handle the team for a couple of weeks (to get the guys straightend out) that we would be better off!