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Apr 06

To Boo Or Not To Boo, Is That The Question?

Seems like this is becoming a yearly question. Should we boo or not boo any Met player on Opening Day?

From booing Beltran to booing Santana seems like this year is why are Fans booing Castillo? Jessep over at Mets Merized Online wrote a nice post explaining why Mets fans should cut Castillo a break. Asking if dropping a pop up in a single game that turned out to mean very little is really a reason to boo him?

I wish I could articulate better my thoughts on Castillo but to me I don’t understand why boo a player on Opening Day but I know some wounds run deeper for some than others and you can make an argument that for some that dropped pop up cut much deeper than just another lost game.

To boo or not to boo? Should we or shouldn’t we especially on Opening Day? Who will we be booing next Opening Day I wonder?

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75 comments

  1. njstuckintx

    I am an anti-boo-er.

    I prefer to Moo.

    Mooooo-kieeeeeee.

    1. rustyjr

      That’s udderly respectable ! :)

      1. njstuckintx

        Your wordsmithy-ness is Grade A. :)

    2. Mr North Jersey

      lol

  2. DNDJohan aka kistics

    We should boo the people who boo on Opening Day….

    But then if Omar was introduced in the lineup, I would boo him too.

  3. njstuckintx

    On a serious note, if debating boo-ers is truely a serious thing, the booing does nothing to help a situation out. It’s not like its going to miraculously compel Omar to make a move for a new 2nd basemen or SP right away.

    I understand not being happy with the moves Omar has made, but booing a person on opening day… man, that’s rough.

    Say a person sucks. You know they suck. I know they suck. They know that they, too, do indeed suck. Pointing it out to them on a consistent basis is not going to change the suckitude. If they could be awesome, I’m sure they would opt for awesomeness vs. suckitude. But some people just don’t have it in them.

    We have a 2nd baseman that the outfield basically move in to play a deep infield. We have an Ollie who’s brain is somewhere wonderful, just not where his body is currently residing. These are the pieces we are going to battle with. Might as well give them some support. I’d love to see Perez gone, but I’ll cheer him while he’s out there, and secretly hope Mejia and Holt somehow speed the process on their development just a tad.

  4. GravediggerHebner

    Personally I don’t boo players (or managers, coaches, owners or trainers) when they’re being introduced to the crowd on Opening Day. To me it seems petty and bush league. I respect other people’s right to do it but it lowers my opinion of them because it makes me seriously question their judgment. It’s the first day of a new season, the slate is clean, everyone is 0 wins and 0 losses, 0 errors and 0 earned runs allowed, so why boo them? It’s just ludicrous to me.

    I do boo. I boo when I see what I believe to be a lack of effort. For example, had I been in attendance at the game when FMart popped a ball up in fair territory but didn’t run out of the batters box, I would’ve booed him. If two or more fielders are running toward a batted ball but then slow down or stop and the ball falls between them with none of them taking charge to try and catch it, I boo them. But that’s about it. I don’t boo a pitcher when he walks a batter or gives up a home run, and I don’t boo a hitter when he strikes out, and I don’t boo a fielder who is clearly (IMO) trying to make a play yet fails to make it.

    1. njstuckintx

      I’d have to agree with that statement.

      And that sums up why certain players who look very fluid and don’t seem to be trying hard (a la beltran…) tend to get booed for perceived notions of not really caring.

      1. GravediggerHebner

        Your last paragraph makes me want to clarify something. I have to “get to know” a player. I can boo someone and then realize I was wrong in doing it, and stop doing it.

        If I were seeing Beltran for the first time I might think “that lazy S.O.B.” but after watching him regularly for a while I would come to understand that he’s graceful and I would not boo him for as you say “being fluid.”

        I’m not sure I can define precisely what I mean by “lack of effort” but I try to be careful not to misinterpret grace for laziness/indifference. I have been wrong before and I’ll be wrong again but I’m not generally “a booer” so I tend to err on the side of caution.

        There is a reason why I’m not a booer, there is a very specific moment in my life when I went from “booer” to “non-booer” and I’ll bore you with it now. I was at an Independent League game in Lynn Massachusetts and a shortstop named Lopez was having a terrible, awful game. He made multiple errors in the field and failed to advance, let alone drive in, runners when at the bat.

        As he was walking off the field after the third out of an inning in which he had made multiple errors I yelled “you’re a real two-way player Lopez” at him. He looked up at me (I was maybe 20-30 feet away) with such sad eyes that seemed to be saying to me “dude I know, no need to yell it in front of everybody” and I had a very sudden realization that what I had just done to this poor man was the last thing he needed. I’ve pretty much never heckled or booed anyone ever since then.

        1. Kingman 26

          Great story Grave. Sometimes people forget these are people, and sometimes their families might be in the stands near the obnoxious boo-ers.

          As for lack of effort being the only good reason to boo, I agree with you 100%.

          1. GravediggerHebner

            It was a life-altering experience for me, an awakening of sorts. At that moment the “professional athlete” transformed from stat producing meat bag to human being.

            It also upset a lot of my friends. If I may say so myself I’m pretty quick witted and always good for a quip and I was somewhat famous for what I yelled at players at sporting events. People would bring me to games with them in part because I provided entertainment for them and the people sitting around us.

            Reggie Jefferson was so slow a runner that I once yelled at him after he was thrown out at 1B on a slow roller “Hey Reggie take the cheeseburger out of your pocket!” But after “The Lopez Incident” I stopped doing that and my friends were bummed that I wasn’t giving them the comic relief they’d come to expect.

  5. Kingman 26

    Bottom line is that some people are just plain unhappy losers and booing very successful millionaire pro athletes makes them feel better.

    Sure, the dropped popup was awful (but Luis’ reaction after the game was pro and first class all the way; in addition to how horrified he looked), as was the 2008 Slappy, who appeared to be out of shape.

    But from day one last year, he has been back in shape and largely has played precisely as can be reasonable expected; yes, he has lost a step or two in the field, but he is still a very good fielder of balls he can get to, he gets on base, he hits for average, he steals bases, and he legs out hits. He’s a good player; an aging and lesser version of what he was 6 or 8 years ago, but booing him yesterday was ridiculous, loser behavior.

    Booing Ollie before he throws a pitch? Last year he was out of shape and injured from the beginning of the spring, but this year, by all accounts, he has been in shape and spent the offseason trying to improve himself.

    Some people think “buying a ticket” gives them a right to boo. I disagree.

    My opinion is that lack of effort is the only justifiable reason to boo players on the home team.

    As Kistics says, booing the boo-ers is the best route!

    1. Mr North Jersey

      :-) Both you and Grave make good points indeed. I am not going to lie when he dropped that ball I blew a fuse and if you go back and look for my comments I am sure i was not kind at all to how Castillo felt during post game. But, the man played well for us and he played hard last year. Even if anyone still is not a fan of him, booing on Opening Day just seems wrong.

      Castillo is one of those guys I wanna be mad at because of his past but I have to recognize him because of how he has persevered through all of it.

    2. DNDJohan aka kistics

      on a funny note,

      if we boo the boo-ers, someone else will see us and boo us.. and others will boo them… and others… it will be sea of boos that never ends… :)

      1. Kingman 26

        HAHA!

        The original boo-ers would surely boo back at the anti-boo-ers who are booing the first boo-ers!

        BOO-YAA!

  6. GravediggerHebner

    I was just watching Brian Costa’s live chat and I read something he stated that surprised me. A questioner asked him “Did GMJ do anything yesterday to make you think he might take playing time away from Pagan?” and Costa answered “Well Matthews won the starting job out of camp so I don’t think he needs to take time from Pagan. He’s going to get enough of his own.”

    He went on to say that Pagan and GMJ would “split time” but it had never occurred to me that GMJ had “won the starting job.” Not sure what to think of that, or how it jives with them “splitting time.”

    1. DNDJohan aka kistics

      I thought it was more of Pagan’s job and that GMJ was only in the Opening Day lineup because he was a veteran guy. I know GMJ had performed surprisingly well in ST, but I don’t think he “won the starting job” over Pagan.

      I really wonder what Omar would do with GMJ once Beltran comes back. I guess it really depends on how he plays between now and then, but he has got to be a trade-bait one-way or another.

      1. GravediggerHebner

        I thought exactly the same “veteran” thing. I also thought if he got a couple hits or at least “played well” that he might start again in game 2. But it seriously NEVER occurred to me that as Costa phrased it he “won the starting job.” That comment threw me for a loop. I trust Costa he’s a very fair and communicative guy so I don’t think he’d say that if he didn’t have some reason for doing so.

    2. metsfan4decades

      I’m over there too, submitted a couple of questions myself.
      And I was surprised by that answer as well.

      1. GravediggerHebner

        I couldn’t think of anything good to ask so I went with “have you heard anything about when Blanco might play?” (not in those exact words) and Costa was kind enough to respond to my lame question with “Manuel wants to get everyone in a game this first week so we’ll probably see him during this homestand.”

        1. metsfan4decades

          LOL.
          I submitted the Franceour question and the one on how long will it be before Jerry replaces Jacobs as the cleanup hitter?

          I got the impression from his answers that he doesn’t know the NY Mets as well as some of us do. Did he just start covering them the past few years? I think he said something about that….

          1. GravediggerHebner

            I can’t remember. I have seen his bio somewhere but I can’t locate it right now. A few years sounds right.

            One thing I will give him credit for is he’s in the locker room every day. So in some ways he knows the Mets much better than we ever will. But he covers them for a living, he doesn’t follow them because he loves them per se. Whether that helps to explain what you’re getting at about him not knowing the Mets as well as some of us I’m not sure.

          2. metsfan4decades

            Good point about being in the locker room. Could be because he does cover the team and is privy to things we’re not, he’s cautious about some things he reports.

            I noticed that with Adam Rubin. That first long interview one of our authors linked to that he did – I listened to the whole thing. And he let go with a few more tidbits and insight we never heard before when he was covering the team for the Daily News.

    3. ceetar

      Interesting. Thought makes sense a little with trying to find some stability. Pagan likely will be the 4th OF for the whole season this way, and GMJ likely traded.

      I guess Matthews did decently enough this spring to earn it, otherwise maybe they would’ve considered bringing up Martinez for a short time regular role.

  7. ceetar

    Who will teh fans boo next Opening Day? That’s an easy one.

    The Phillies. (Since the standard is to have the WS team open up against their rival, I assume we’ll be raising a banner before booing them though.)

    1. Mr North Jersey

      :-) Very Nice…. :-)

    2. DNDJohan aka kistics

      I’m sure Ollie will get some boos next Opening Day too. Not much confidence in him.

      1. Kingman 26

        I wonder what uniform he might be wearing when he receives those Opening Day boos next year?

        :-)

  8. Mr North Jersey

    [OFF TOPIC] Has Francesa done anything on the Mets today?

    1. Kingman 26

      OK, now THAT is someone I WOULD boo!

      :-)

    2. GravediggerHebner

      To the best of my knowledge, no. I have it on low volume in the background. He interviewed Terry Francona a few minutes ago, before that I think it was mostly college hoops.

    3. metsfan4decades

      Well, I can tell you the 1-2pm hour was all about the Duke/Butler game last night. Not sure about the last hour but I don’t think I heard much about baseball at all yet. He’s just now starting to talk about the Met yesterday.

      Speaking of which – on a side note:
      Have a friend who was running a NCAA pool and had 4 boxes left. Talked my hubby and I into buying in for $5 bucks a piece. Random picks and two of them were W. VA and Duke. So we got our investment back as they paid for the final 4 and won the whole pot last night. Nice little windful of $300. I immediately asked: ‘can we take those winnings and buy some good seats for the 1 Aug HOF game’? LOL…..

      1. Mr North Jersey

        To which your hubby replied no, 1st we invest and then we reinvest and then we re-reinvest. We already have taken 5 dollars and turned it into 300 dollars. :-)

        In memory of the Great Jackie Gleason.

        1. metsfan4decades

          hahahaha – to his credit, he did offer to take me to a game this year if we can manage it. Also, he’s the one who randomly picked all 4 boxes so it really is his good luck we won.

          Neither one of us knows much about college basketball but we were excited when we saw we had Duke ’cause we knew enough to at least know they’ve won this championship several times….

        2. gategem

          “A little traveling music please…”

          “And….Awaa-aay We Go”

  9. metsfan4decades

    IMO? No good reason – or otherwise, what-so-ever to be booing anyone on our team on opening day. We want them to turn the page on last year, but we start off remind them of it by booing?

    And personally, for me, I would never boo anyone on the team at the game, for any reason. The Grave example above with Fmart not running out the pop up? I would come out with ‘awwwww’, which might sound like ‘boooo’, but I would not be booing.

    I might not applaud certain players, or applaud as loudly, but I just can’t do the booing.

    Now, booing the opposition? I don’t have a problem with that. It’s part of the game and I highly doubt the opposition players take that personally since it’s from the opposition’s fans.

    Booing the trainers? Yeah, I get the sentiment. Fans showing their frustration at all things medical/injury last year. I just don’t know how much of that blame is on the trainers vs Mets management and the decisions made based on medical advice given.
    Hope those guys can take a joke – because really, where else but the Mets do the fans actually know the name of the head trainer? LOL.

    1. ceetar

      The one guy I saw (no idea who it was, an assistant trainer or something) was definitely saying something to his neighbor and chuckling.

  10. GravediggerHebner

    “Oh Curtis, you’re something sorta Grandish.”

    Only John Sterling. I think it’s safe to say none of us correctly guessed what his HR call for Granderson would be.

    1. ceetar

      That’s so lame.

      1. GravediggerHebner

        What makes it even more lame? It’s the title of a song from a musical called “Finian’s Rainbow” that starred Fred Astaire and Petula Clark.

        Something Sorta Grandish

        According to Yahoo: It was a Broadway musical more than 60 years ago and involves “a bigoted southern Senator, a credit crisis, a pesky leprechaun and, of course, a complicated love affair that gives birth to some of the most witty, charming and heartfelt songs ever written for the stage.”

        1. metsfan4decades

          Ha! I knew that. I sang in the chorus back in High School and during my freshman year, the play we did was Finian’s Rainbow.

        2. gategem

          Just to show my age the original play starred Ella Logan as Sharon, Donald Richards as Woody and Albert Sharpe as Finian. I have the album on something called an LP. :)

          BTW Michael Jackson studied Fred Astaire who might have been the greatest dancer that ever lived.

      2. njstuckintx

        It’s better than Seeeeeeeee yah! But not by much.

        Give me Gary’s It’s Outta Here!

        I have the baseball package, so I don’t always get GKR for every game. I think we take for granted sometimes how good they are. Cause when you get the Nats or the Rockies or the Diamond backs announcers… yikes.

        1. ceetar

          Luckily I’m in the home area. :-D But yeah, they rock.

        2. GravediggerHebner

          The only other announcers I’ve heard that I like are the SF Giants. Perhaps it’s because they’re both players I grew up watching, Duane Kuiper and Mike Krukow. I think Krukow is great at color analysis, on par with our Keith and Ron.

          1. njstuckintx

            Houston ain’t too bad either. Milo Hamilton is old, but if you imagine his voice sounds as it does cause he’s 3 sheets to the wind, it makes it ok.

          2. GravediggerHebner

            I just looked up their announcers and to my surprise former Met catcher Alex Trevino does their Spanish radio broadcasts.

            Astros broadcasters

          3. gategem

            Vin Scully does the Dodgers’ telecast by his lonesome. He sounds like he is doing a radiocast as he speaks incessantly. I remember him back in his Brooklyn days and the Dodgers back then used 3 announcers that did both television and radio (similar to the Mets in the old days). I also remember him doing the L.A. Dodgers games with Jerry Doggett. Does anyone know why Scully does the games these days by himself?

            BTW my favorite homerun call was Russ Hodge’s “Bye-Bye, Baby!”

          4. Kingman 26

            I have heard that Scully just likes it that way.

            I am old enough to remember when Kiner, Murphy, and Lindsay Nelson used to do all the TV and radio among the three of them, and how one of them would switch every three innings if I remember correctly, so there would always be two guys on TV and one on radio.

        3. DNDJohan aka kistics

          Now we have “Kiss it Good Bye!” by Hagen… not too bad.

          But I will take the “Put it in the books!” over anything, even Gary’s “It’s Outta Here!”

        4. Kingman 26

          I still miss Ralph’s old “It’s going going gone goodbye!”

          Dave Niehaus is a Seattle legend and I believe is now in the broadcaster’s wing of the Hall of Fame, and is a great part of Mariners’ history and has been since day one in 1977, but I never got used to his grand slam call:

          “Get out the rye bread and mustard, Grandma, it is grand salami time!”

          1. njstuckintx

            I miss ralph too. I’ve been searching for his call of a kevin mitchell homerun from 86 or 87. It’s the call where kevin crushed the ball, but basically straight up in the air, and it goes some like, “There’s a high fly ball the second baseman is going back, the right fielder is in, the right fielder is going back, going back and it’s gone!”.

            Oh, and i was looking on http://www.unitedstatesofbaseball.com/. Some pretty funny Kiner quotes on there.

  11. metsfan4decades

    MF doing what he does best – yelling over a caller.
    Caller was trying to make a point about the Yankees being cautious going into the season with some of their acquisitions/trades. For some reason, MF took offense to that.
    ‘You don’t think if the Yankees find they need a $20 MIL pitcher mid season, they just won’t go out and get him? Of course they will. They’re not cautious’.

    Uh….of course they will. It is, after all, the Yankees.

  12. ceetar

    btw, Mejia and Tejada are the two youngest players in the Majors.

    Tejada is the youngest since Tim Foli in 1971, Mejia since Gooden. (to appear on OPening Day Roster)

    1. stickguy

      I am guessing that right now, the Mets have to have one of the younger teams in BB. Although I bet that most everyone “knows” that Omar only builds a team of anceint guys (and of course, their window has passed them by, being so old and all!)

      1. Kingman 26

        I think we have way too many 30+ guys for that; but next year, when the Junior Core comes a-rollin’ into town on the Junior Parade Float, we will be young indeed!

        No Blanco, Tatis, Matthews, Catalanotto, and maybe no Slappy will dramatically lower the average age when Thole, Ike, FMart, etc are here to stay.

        1. darknova306

          Junior Core has me really excited for next year. I’d volunteer to swing by Buffalo to give them a ride to Citi if need be :)

          1. ceetar

            Planning on a Bing/Buffalo trip this summer possibly, I could help if we need more than your car fits.

      2. GravediggerHebner

        I don’t know exactly when or exactly how this is compiled but ESPN has a category called “roster analysis” and among the categories is “age.” The Red Sox are number 1 (being oldest) at 31.2 years old. The Mets are number 8 at 29.8 years old. The youngest team is Oakland at 27.2 years old.

        ESPN Roster Analysis

        Apparently the A’s don’t have a single player over age 32 on their team.

        1. DNDJohan aka kistics

          Is this based on the 25-man roster? or 40-man roster?

          1. GravediggerHebner

            25-man

        2. saltygary

          What has happened with that organization. They used to be run like the Twins and now their run like the Pirates.

  13. darknova306

    We all have our opinion on when it’s justified to boo, but I think we still have the right to express ourselves. Sports are entertainment for the fans, and expressing ourselves about things is part of that. That said, I’ve only booed twice (including yesterday). I think it’s only really justified occasionally, but I don’t think less of someone that expresses themself more often (though i’d like people to give Luis the respect he’s earned).

    I’ll admit I booed Jerry (very quietly) yesterday, but was silent for Ollie and the other bums that irritate me. I left the players alone because I agree it’s silly on Opening Day.

    People in my section replaced booing for Jacobs with “we like Ike” chants. :)

  14. saltygary

    Booing is completely counterproductive but then there are guys like Bonilla and Looper. I booed the crap out of them and have now problem with that. For guys like Castillo it is a little ridiculous because he was the one of the few players that stuck it out day in and day out in such a crappy season.

    And i I ever see Kenny Rogers, I would probably need to start a fight even though he would kick the living crap out of me.

  15. saltygary

    Hey on ESPN NY they have a tool where you can make the all time Mets and then see where everyone rated the players:

    http://espn.go.com/espn/newyork/greatestteam/index/_/teamId/5055650/the-new-york-mets

    1. saltygary

      OF Jones, Beltran, Straw
      1B Hernandez – Had a tough time with this because I was a huge Olerud
      2B Alfonso – My favorite Met and the best 2 strike hitter around
      SS Reyes
      3B Wright
      C Piazza – This was the toughest since Carter was my fav growing up and it wasn’t just his name.
      P Seaver, Cone, Gooden, LEiter, and Franco
      Coach Valentine

      1. prismo

        I did that earlier today – we had almost the same team.
        Difference were in P: Seaver, Santana, Gooden, Koosman
        Manager: Davey

        1. saltygary

          I just couldn’t pick Santana yet. He needs more time and quality wins with the team. Leiter had the team on his back for a bunch of years and that sudden death game against the Reds to get in the playoffs will always be huge.

          1. Kingman 26

            I was in Las Vegas for that 1-game playoff vs the Reds, and I bet $200 on the Mets. My greatest ever baseball betting moment.

            If Al could have just gotten an out or two in Game 6 vs Atl….

            :-)

    2. gategem

      LF – Kevin McReynolds (People didn’t like McReynolds because of his attitude and lack of emotion. His wife didn’t help matters by calling WFAN and explaining that Mc was trying to beat the traffic home. But Mc was an extremely gifted ballplayer. It was obvious the game came easy to him and his style of outfield play was very similar to that of Carlos Beltran).

      CF – Carlos Beltran

      RF – Darryl Strawberry

      1B – Keith Hernandez

      2B – Edgardo Alfonso

      SS – Jose Reyes

      3B – David Wright

      C – Mike Piazza

      SP – Tom Seaver, Dwight Gooden, Johan Santana and David Cone

      CLOSER – Jesse Orosco (Most people here only remember Orosco as the curveballing left hander late in his career. They don’t realize that Orosco, early in career, had an outstanding fastball. Orosco had nasty stuff.)

      Manager – Davey Johnson

      1. njstuckintx

        For all those reasons you stated, that’s why I was anti-Mc. Plus, I know he was all gangster and stuff, I really wanted Mitchell to take over in Left.

    3. Kingman 26

      Your All=Time Met 25 Man Roster:

      1B-Keith Hernandez
      2B-Edgardo Alfonzo
      SS-Jose Reyes
      3B-David Wright
      LF-Cleon Jones
      CF-Carlos Beltran
      RF-Darryl Strawberry
      C-Mike Piazza

      SP-Tom Seaver
      SP-Jerry Koosman
      SP-Dwight Gooden
      SP-Johan Santana
      SP-David Cone

      CL-Tug McGraw
      BP-Jesse Orosco
      BP-John Franco
      BP-Roger McDowell
      BP-Nolan Ryan
      Long Man/Spot Starter-Rick Aguilera
      Long Man/Spot Starter-Sid Fernandez

      Bench-Mookie Wilson
      Bench-Rusty Staub
      Bench-Bud Harrelson
      Bench-Howard Johnson
      Bench-Gary Carter

      MGR-Gil Hodges
      1B Coach-Bud Harrelson
      3B Coach-Davey Johnson
      Bench Coach-Bobby Valentine
      Pitching Coach-Rube Walker
      Hitting Coach-Keith Hernandez

      1. njstuckintx

        The 1B and hitting coach! Who says the days of player manager are over. :)

  16. Hazmet

    I have nothing to add tonight other than this really frightening sight I just channel surfed past: Rick James on the A-Team from 1985. It’s super freaky.

    1. saltygary

      F YOUR COUCH!!!!

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