Woe is you. Game two of a hundred and sixty-two game season and the 1-0 New York Mets come back from five runs behind to take a once-lost game into extra innings. You gave up in the second inning, and despite a surprise come-back, your team lost in the tenth. A 1-1 record is hard to come back from, I understand. I feel your pain and frustration as there is no way that a team can lose one of its first two games and still put together a respectable season. Fans of the 1-2 Red Sox, 1-2 Angels, 0-2 Cubs, 1-2 Rockies, and 0-2 Dodgers are all in the same boat. It’s time to move on to 2011 and never look back. Woe is you.
Last night I faced the unthinkable: a Real Dirty Mets Dugout (our patented in-game chat room) which was filled to the brink, nay, over the brink of despair. And it all began in the second inning of the second game of the season. I personally witnessed calls for John Maine to be placed on waivers, Omar’s head to be “offedâ€, and Jerry’s game management skills to be the immediate cause for his dismissal. And it all began in the second inning of the second game of the season.
I almost couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw normally positive and upbeat die-hard Mets fans rapidly morph into rabid “Nattering Nabobs of Negativity†(as coined by our very own Kingman). During the fifth inning, as John Maine was nearing the end of his very mediocre start, the negativity of those around me began to truly sink in. And it wasn’t just in the Dugout, but also on Twitter as nonstop negative tweets flooded into my browser. My eyes began to twitch, and my face slowly turned to a bright shade of red, and finally I just couldn’t take it anymore. I had to get out. So I ditched the Dirty Dugout and resolved to finish the game in full privacy.
I was rewarded by a late-game comeback, but was again subjected to the Nabobs on multiple occasions, despite the resurgence of my Metropolitans. When an ill-advised Tatis tried to take home on a wild pitch, every time Jacobs made an out, when Sean Green came into the ballgame, every time a Mets hitter didn’t come through with a man on base, and when Takahashi gave up the tie in the final inning. Each of these occasions led to a fleet of tweets rampaging through my browser and my already fed-up brain.
And that’s when it hit me. Right then is when the full impact of what this second game negativity means to optimistic and realistic Mets fans alike. We’re going to have to deal with this constant negativity for 160 more games this season. Every eye-twitch and every head throb I dealt with last night will inevitably occur 160 more times over the next several months. Now, I could explain why this is an overreaction of a fanbase on the edge of the cliff. Why if the Marlins had lost the game in the tenth, they could have chalked it up to the same “the other team handed us the win on the silver platter, but we failed to deliver†and it would have been equally ridiculous for their fans to react how ours did. Why we should give John Maine more than his first start in 2010 to prove his worth, and why the same goes for the rest of the rotation. Why this team will have an additional all-star in the lineup within the next week, and another one coming in May. I could go on with these “whys†forever, but I have a better solution.
If you want to jump, jump. If anything that occurs within the first two games of the season (and I don’t care if you’re a Nationals fan, a Red Sox fan, or a Mets fan) makes you want to jump off the cliff of positivity into the pit of negativity and despair. If a 1-1 record makes you sick to your stomach, and you just can’t take it anymore. If it makes you want to shout out to the world “Fire Jerry!â€, “Fire Omar!â€, “The Mets suck!â€, “This team has no heart!â€, etc etc etc. If any of those sound like you, and it’s only game two, jump. Please just jump off the bandwagon. You’re welcome to root for a team that better holds your interest and meets your desires. In fact, I insist on it. I insist because I can’t take 160 more games of the negativity. I understand what you’re going through, and after more than two games I’ll be happy to calmly discuss the faults of a losing franchise. But not now, not yet. If you want to jump, jump.
85 comments
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-7:32am at 7:32 am (UTC -4)
Well, it IS despair.
We all wanted Maine to come out and show he’s healthy, strong and can dominate. We all were disappointed he didn’t last night.
We’re all just a tad bit worried about tour pitchers.
7 Mets pitched last night. 3 pitched good: Pedro, KRod and Nieve. The 3 we were least worried about.
Maine, Green, Mejia, and Taka….not so good. For me, Mejia gets a pass because (a) he shouldn’t be in that BP and (b) even though he gave up a run, he has some promising nasty stuff.
We all knew this pitching was going to be questionable and was the weak point.
We all know this pitching is going to make or break the season.
I, for one, am real tired of looking at replacement players up and down the lineup but that just bad luck and nothing to be done there. Our offense, to me, is not a weak spot.
I really wanted things to break right for Maine. I’m not writing off his season – yet. But isn’t anyone but me worried about the big drop in velocity on his fastball?
And I’m sorry, Jerry’s game management decisions have to leave most of us scratching our heads….
Not jumping yet, Prismo….
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-7:52am at 7:52 am (UTC -4)
Actually, I really should have said, not jumping at all. As a 40+ year fan, I’ve suffered through worse. For those of you who were regular readers here last year, you know I watch each and every game (save a few because of timing/obligations) and will continue to do so.
I love the NY Mets. I’ll never be a fair weather fan. And because I love this team, depending on their playing, I will either be elated at times or completely dejected. The nature of being a fan. And I feel there is something special about being a NY Met fan.
rustyjr
4/8/2010-8:01am at 8:01 am (UTC -4)
Atleast Jose should be back on sat and it was a exciting game yesterday – dome bad calls and some great plays but it would have been nice to see a consistant John Maine show up
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-8:36am at 8:36 am (UTC -4)
Can’t wait until Jose is back.
I can’t help thinking if the lineup currently had Reyes and Beltran in it, it would help the pitching.
njstuckintx
4/8/2010-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
I agree with you 4D. With that being the first time I’ve seen young Mejia, I like what I see. Little fireplug throwing gas! He’s just not ready for the bigs yet. Soon, but not yet.
I do worry (and it will cause my rolaids/tums/sierra nevada pale ale consumption to sky rocket) about a 2 fold problem. Our pen being an issue with some very capable pitchers but than some very UNcapable pitchers and Jerry feeling that it’s not a day at the ball park unless everyone gets a turn pitching. If M and/or O of the MOP feel the need to only go 5.0 to 5.2 IP consistently, we’re going to need the fresh AAAA arms to fill in for the BP arms that get worn out around July 20th.
Coiuld it be the Orient connection’s first time pitching in NY jitters? It could be, but then again, it might not be.
Kingman 26
4/8/2010-7:37am at 7:37 am (UTC -4)
Nice piece, and I sincerely appreciate the mention; I am proud to have introdued that oh-so-appropriate term. And that’s why I generally avoid game threads/the Dugout–learned the hard way from our old home.
As I said at the end of the game thread, a lot to like. The team fought and never gave up, took a lot of pitches, hustled, and looked crisp for the most part. And yes, we saw two very good young pitchers. And Bay and Barajas look like real good additions.
However, Maine, like Ollie early last year, is a clear problem, as his spring performance predicted. When you don’t have great control, and don’t have great breaking stuff, when your fastball largely clocks in at 89 instead of the 93-94 of the past, you aren’t going to win much in the majors. He looked a LOT like Nelson Figueroa last night.
Johan, KRod, Feliciano, and the offense have looked just as expected.
And of course 2 games mean little. The 86 Mets started off 2-3.
But the pitching clouds on the horizon look very, very ominous; no getting around it. If Maine tops out at an occasional 90 MPH, he’s not going to have much success.
Still, great comeback, a lot of excitement, and beyond those dark pitching clouds lurks a very bright future. Whether that future comes in 2010 remains to be seen, and I for one will certainly be watching without calling for the heads of anyone.
ceetar
4/8/2010-7:42am at 7:42 am (UTC -4)
(I’m going to yell Fire Manuel anyway, because he _is_ an idiot)
Maine’s velocity was a little disturbing, but I’m not ready to demand his retirement 1 game into the season. He did keep us in the game for our potent offense to have a chance to win (we tied it, that means he didn’t pitch us out of reach). Like Perez last year, you gotta give him through April. It’s not like we’re looking back 3 years to find stretches where Maine was good. He was good for parts of last year.
I still think Pelfrey should’ve pitched last night, and I really want to see a Perez start. I like Niese, but he’s a rookie and you’re likely to get rookie stuff from him, especially in April.
Kingman 26
4/8/2010-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
“we tied it, that means he didn’t pitch us out of reach”
Or you could imagine the possibility that a starter going more than 5 innings and/or allowing less than 8 hits, 4 runs and 2 HR in 5 innings might have given the team a better chance to win while scoring 6, as a team should virtually always win when scoring 6?
Maine’s velocity was alarming to anyone who is realistic, no matter how optimistic they are. Thinking otherwise is just plain being in denial.
Maine’s not going to be a winning pitcher with an 89 mph fastball. No chance.
ceetar
4/8/2010-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
Yes, probably not, but was his velocity a matter of it being early in April, just having a bad grip, a fluke of a pitching gun? (probably not since Mejia hit 97)
But it should be a little reassuring to Maine. Last year he would’ve thought “Okay, gotta go out there and spin a gem now.” because the Mets didn’t score. But now all he reallly has to think is “Baby steps. Make the adjustment, get better results. Even one pitch better and we may have won last time. And next time Reyes will be back too!”
It’s a huge deal, and is a huge part of why the Phillies haven’t collapsed under their pitching the last couple of years. It’s a huge comfort factor.
Kingman 26
4/8/2010-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
Well, I appreciate your optimism, and while I feel VERY optimistic about a lot regarding the team and about the direction of the organization, so far, the pessimism regarding about much of the pitching staff has held true.
I would think that in his first start, after not pitching all that much in the spring, and after saying how he is healthy for the first time in forever, AND considering the warm weather, that Maine would have been hitting his max on the gun. Which he very well may have. Sure hope I am wrong.
prismo
4/8/2010-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
I was actually more concerned about his location than his velocity. Many, many, many pitchers are effective with fastballs around 90mph. But Maine was laying them up in the strikezone over and over again. I don’t care if he threw 95mph heat in that location, it’s a meatball either way.
But, again, it was the first game. And he barely pitched last season. He might just need 3-4 starts to get in a groove.
Kingman 26
4/8/2010-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, but the successful pitchers who throw 88-90 have a great curve and/or a great cutter and/or a great change and/or have pinpoint control.
Maine has none of these.
Prismo, I am NOT giving up, and I am very glad I avoided the Dugout last night.
I looked at the positives too: the comeback, the plate patience of the hitters, and pretty crisp defense, etc.
There is a LOT to like about the direction of this team; we just might need a few more pitchers, that’s all I am trying to say.
ceetar
4/8/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Well, there are no pitchers, as evidenced by the Phillies taking Figueroa. But time will change that, and the Mets have the space and ability to get one if need be.
dirtysanchez
4/8/2010-7:55am at 7:55 am (UTC -4)
Cause kris kross will make ya, Jump, Jump!
well…one game short of a trip to the world series when we were the best team in the league, 2 collapses and one ridiculously injury plagued season…if you werent expecting some negativity, you were a bit naive. Some met fans handle it better than others. Im from cloth that treats each season independent from the one before it and thus last nights loss was a hard fought one but at least they showed some resolve and made it a game after a poor start from maine. This is a different ball club than years past and we simply have to come to realize that alot of clubs are better this year. Its going to be a good year for baseball imo and ya cant win them all. We have a shot to win the series, lets focus on that.
metsgirl31
4/8/2010-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
Great post, Prismo.
I agree it is too early to give up. Yea Maine was not great but he can still turn it around. He may or may not but I’m not giving up and calling for him to be released. It seems like Met fans all over are losing it. Come on, people!! We are tougher than this. What’s with all the vitriol being spilled? I agree with Prismo that some of the comments in the dugout were overly negative. No one says don’t be frustrated but its only game #2. They didn’t win but they showed some stuff last nite. Yea they didn’t get the “big hit” but they showed patience and they took what the Marlins gave them. There were times last year where a game like that they would have been up there swinging at the balls in the dirt cuz they were impatient.
Yes maybe I’m grasping at straws but I’m not jumping anywhere after 2 games and neither should anyone else. Crappy pitching or not, we’re fans of this team and we should stay positive. Positive energy is better than negative energy.
LGM!!
prismo
4/8/2010-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
LGM!!!
metsgirl31
4/8/2010-9:06am at 9:06 am (UTC -4)
I was reading some comments on the other blog and from their comments you would think those people are literally standing on the ledge. Talk about over the top comments…WOW!
People are saying its cuz of last year but come on if we can’t leave last year in the past how can we expect the players to do it? Turn the page…its 2010.
mrose
4/8/2010-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
I love the post Prismo…
I must admit I didn’t even look at Twitter or the Dirty Dugout last night, the wife and I (and puppy) are still settling into the new home so I had the game on as I ate dinner, then did some things around the house. When it was 6-1, I said “oh well, i’ll check back later” and went to do more around the new house stuff, but certainly wasn’t saying the season was done etc. I was also rewarded by patience of realizing its game two by seeing later them Mets had tied it, and did watch the final inning, but overall was proud of the offense and bullpen as a whole.
Finally, I must say, the Marlins announcing team SUCKS (MLB Extra innings living in Orlando, fl, so I had to watch it on marlins feed cause of blackout). First, that dang “His name is Dan Uggla” call is worse than any John Sterling call and according to their team, Beltran won’t be back until July, which actually made me recheck the news on him, to see its still hopefully mid may…so i’m not quite sure where they get their info.
oh well, one more game against the fish, then bring on the lowly Nats and bring back Jose!
metsgirl31
4/8/2010-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
I feel your pain…I live in So. FL and they are brutal. I ended up paying $19.95 for the season of Gameday Audio so at least I can mute the tv and listen to WFAN call the game. Those two morons make me want to throw stuff at my tv…they are beyond horrible.
stickguy
4/8/2010-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
I wandered by the dugout about 2 minutes before Pris decided to bail. I probably through out a few snide barbs, but they were just in jest. Mostly. SO I missed most of what put him over the edge early.
But, the modd of the bi-polar Met fans that stayed certainly swung to the other end of the spectrum later in the game!
anyway, it didn’t take until game 2 to have the negativity surface. It was there last year, and never went away in the off season and ST (hell, you think it was easy for me and Ceeter to be the last 2 optimists, after we lost Kingman to the dark side?)
Hey, anyone want to buy a positiviality float? Very low miles, and the back seat was never sat in!
Kingman 26
4/8/2010-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
HAHA!
Stick, as I told the official Congressional Met Optimist Hearings, I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Dark Side.
PLEASE put me down as being VERY optimistic about the offense, the defense, and the baserunning. I am VERY positive about the excellence of Johan, KRod, and Feliciano. I believe we may have more soon-to-be MLB talent that possibly any other team in AAA. Bay is exactly what I hoped—a good hitter, who gets on base and always hustles, and he is a GOOD fielder no matter what ANYONE says. Barajas looks like a real good pickup too.
However, what we saw yesterday, to the realistic optimist, was a John Maine who may be done as a serious winning prospect. He will not win games throwing an 89 mph fastball. Not going to happen. That’s 1/3 of MOP.
Being realistic about a guy whose whole game was a 94 mph fastball who has lost 5 mph is NOT jumping ship; it is being realistic after 35 years of watching baseball.
I loved the rally from behind, loved the walks and taking pitches, loved the hustling defense, and love the team in general.
The float is beautiful, and will be ready when this developing team starts winning, whether it is this month or April of 2011, which will be the latest.
stickguy
4/8/2010-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
anyhow, I am not jumping. I never would, since even though I spend way too much time here (and various other Met centric sites), it isn’t that important really.
I don’t think that any season without a WS title is the worst ever, or an abject failure. I love to see the young guys of the future get established, and prosmise for the future.
It is nice to see them win, but if they play hard and always seem to be in the game, that really is all you can expect as a fan
at least when the fickle fans jump, there will be more room on the ledge, and it will hopefully be a little saner around the blogs. Not counting on that of course, but one can always hope.
ceetar
4/8/2010-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
the fickle fans never jump though, they just try to talk you into jumping.
Kingman 26
4/8/2010-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
Stick, I agree with literally every word of this eloquent comment.
Seriously, this is PRECISELY how I feel.
“It is nice to see them win, but if they play hard and always seem to be in the game, that really is all you can expect as a fan”–this is great; really your whole comment is pretty much my entire attitude as a lifelong Met fan.
Thanks for this one.
I have the right co-captain for the float.
prismo
4/8/2010-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Agreed with both of you.
I felt almost dirty after last night’s game, because they lost…but I was fine with it. It was an incredibly exciting game, and my team almost came back from a five-run deficit. They fought until the bitter end and even the guys who wouldn’t expect were working the counts. Tatis’ baserunning flub was really the only thing that made me want to punch a wall, but I guarantee if he were safe no one would have called him out on it.
ceetar
4/8/2010-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
I was too invested on how big a win it would’ve been confidence-wise (and it might’ve been anyway in a loss) so I wasn’t “fine with it”, but it was good to see.
Kingman 26
4/8/2010-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, Tatis’ play, after thinking about it, wasn’t all that bad. He was hustling, and most of the time would have made it, especially against a poor fielding team.
Maine and the pen beyond the top two guys are the negatives. Everything else was a positive.
ceetar
4/8/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
yeah. Good play by Baker.
And even so, the percentages of Tatis scoring on a WP is a lot higher than Wright getting on base, just the nature of baseball.
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
I had no problem with Tatis trying to score there. It took a very accurate throw to get him.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/8/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
Agreed.
koose
4/8/2010-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
First of all negativity has nothing to do with it, realisim is what it is. The 2010 mets just are not a winning team at the major league level. I read all the posts on this site and admire allot of your optimism but the real facts are the mets aren’t good. This roster of replacment players like GMJ,Cora,Jacobs, Francour are a joke for a 120 million dollar payroll team.John Maine should be in AAA with Perez working on getting themselves right,not in the major leauges.You just don’t use major league starts to work on things, either your ready or not.If your not you go down to the minors and work it out the 4 or 5 starts that it will take to get right are a combined possible 8 losses for a team that will need every win it gets.
I laugh when I read the mets came back and scored 5 runs.Are you kidding me. 5 runs that were given to them by a team which is playing high school level defense.Against a good team the mets loose 6 – 1 no other way to put it, wax it shine it,its still a clunker.
And the best part of it all is I keep reading that Reyes and Beltran are comming back and things will be better.Thats wonderful the great saviors for this team are 2 guys that will have missed a combined 230 games in the last 2 seasons wow that’s inspiring. So call me a natering naybob or whatever I call myself a realist who was at last nights game and saw the same bad Met team that I’ve been seeing since 2007 same results never learning.
Kingman 26
4/8/2010-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
It’s Nattering Nabob, and you most certainly are one.
The Mets were not anything remotely close to “bad” in 2007 and 2008.
Francoeur is not a replacement player. Jacobs, Cora, and Matthews are ONLY playing due to injuries. NO team has all-stars on the bench; expecting this is symptom A is being unreasonable.
They were down 5 to a VERY good pitcher, took a lot of pitches, hustled, and came back. And if the Marlins had not made a GREAT and PERFECT play to gun down Tatis at the plate, we very likely win the game.
Maine was awful and Green and Takahashi weren’t good. Those are the ONLY reasonable and rational negatives to take from last night.
ceetar
4/8/2010-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Reyes is 100% healthy and had one injury plagued season in a half-decade of which he’s more than recovered from. So yes, that’s a savior. If it Reyes is in the lineup maybe they score one more run in the 8th and win the game.
All pitchers ebb and flow and grow and falter. even the aces. So if it takes Maine April to get into the flow of things, it’s hardly the end of the world.
GMJ, Cora, and Jacobs are exactly that, replacement players. Francoeur isn’t great but he’s a good role player, has shown some good signs of improvement, and can help out in this lineup. That’s fine.
Sure, the Marlins played like crap which was a big reason why they came back. but plenty of bullpens and pitchers are crap, and the Mets have the talent to come back on them. they also play these crappy Marlins 16 more times. You can beat up on bad teams to 90+ wins which wins you the division, it’s not unheard of.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/8/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
Nice post Prismo. It’s just 2 games and I was encouraged to see that the Mets fought back despite falling behind (and Frenchy drawing a walk from 0-2 count).
I don’t really blame Tatis for doing what he did. I think many of us yelled “Go! Go! Go!” when we saw the ball kicked out of Bako’s glove. I’m not overly concerned about Maine’s velocity thought if he keeps this up, I will be worried. I’m okay with Mejia or Taka giving up runs as this game was their major league debut and coming out of BP. I think the offense could have done a better job in situational hitting, but still too early to tell the “clutchness” of this team. I really liked what I saw in Bay in overall. He really hustles and doesn’t seem to get fazed by whatever the situation is. I liked what I saw in Barajas offensively compared to what we’ve been seeing past 3 years in Schneider.
I don’t understand why Castillo was taken out of the game, but that didn’t matter all that much.
Now can someone ask Jerry this question? “Are we done with Jacobs batting clean up???” To me, it just kills the flow of the game with Jacobs squeezed in between Wright and Bay. And can we please have Pagan play CF and leadoff? One of the strength of this team is the speed, but when you take out Pagan, Castillo and stick Jacobs in the middle of the lineup, it kills the speed.
Having said all of that… it’s just 2 games…
fongy2
4/8/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
Got home just in time to see our Mets tie it @ 6 and thought
we were on tyo something with this group should they come back.
Was thinking its a nice way to build a season, coming from
5 down, the second game of the season to go 2-0.
Let down…..As usual…
Didnt see anyone else mention, Jerry’s bonehead move in letting
Wright steal second, thus taking the bat out of Bay’s hands.
Unreal HOW BAD a field Mgr this guy is…..Did he not know The Marlins would go after GMjr instead???
The combo of bad pitching and bad managing isn’t a recipe for success……
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
I don’t understand all the complaining about those of us in the Dugout.
To me, the Dugout is a place to watch a game and converse (lament? lol) with our fellow Met fans. Much like being in a sports bar together minus the cover charge.
Many of the comments made there are ‘of the moment’ variety. Like when Tatis failed to score. Sure, we were like ‘WTF Tatis’? Doesn’t mean I believe Tatis made a huge error, was responsible for the loss, sux, the 2010 team sux, or many of the other comments I believe we’re being accused of. And actually, IMO, I didn’t have a problem with Tatis trying to score there. It took a very accurate throw and quick thinking to get him.
There is one member – who shall remain nameless but those that frequent the Dugout know who I’m talking about….- that flits in and out torturing us with all kinds of negative comments. He changes his name/id depending on who he has a problem with during any particular game. And for me, I find it more entertainment value than an annoyance. He did go over the top a few times last year and at one point was kicked off.
For the rest of us routinely there for most games, I truly believe it’s a venue to discuss the game as it’s ongoing and to either cheer or vent, depending. I wouldn’t say anyone other than our young poster above, is overly negative – on the whole.
saltygary
4/8/2010-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Yea I completely agree with everything you said and didn’t see it as too negative. I wasn’t in there all night but when folks are commenting pitch-by-pitch and the Mets are having a crappy game, it’s not going to be all that positive. When the Mets have a great game then the dugout will be just the opposite. And with your comments of “he who shall not be named” he’s funny and all that he does is expected. If he started to become positive then I’m building an Arc and getting my but outta town.
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
LOL!
gipperpdx
4/8/2010-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
I agree 4D…I had to leave for awhile and caught the comeback on DVR, but while I was there, it wasn’t too bad. Just instant reaction!
prismo
4/8/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Sorry, I didn’t mean to call anyone out.
saltygary
4/8/2010-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think you called anyone out I think your perception was different than some of the others.
It was a frustrating game last night and TK is a Jester besides that all good in the hood, or dugout.
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
No apology necessary. I was just trying to put the Dugout in the perspective I see it in. Didn’t want to scare anyone off from joining…
CaseStreet
4/8/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
Post of the season prismo, Congrats!
Mr North Jersey
4/8/2010-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
1st let me say nice post Prismo.
Now let me say I think I was in the wrong dugout.
I saw when you left last night Prismo and your line of having enough with the negativity. I was surprised because I think it was TK that was the bulk of expressing emphatically his disgust with the situation. I may be wrong but I felt it was more like many were just openly saying what they were concerned about. For example is Jacobs really the right decision to be 1 on the team and 2 hitting in the 4-hole?
Also the Tatis play I believe people were reinforcing what the guys in the booth said that Tatis made a mistake. Where Maine was concerned it was Spring Training is over but Maine has yet to show why fans should not be worried about him.
It was like you said his location left much to be desired and even though his velocity is yes a concern having topped out at 91. Even if he threw 95 it was his location that was more concerning. As Mejia proved with his 97mph fastball getting hit for base-hits.
Maybe I am overreacting and I apologize if I am but you made it seem like the dugout was so unbearable when in reality people were mostly saying what many already have heard before regarding their concerns with the team.
For the record if anyone is curious about the chatroom I invite you to come in and check it out
you will find it is a cross section of all types of Mets fans. I can assure you it will not be all positive or all negative but it is a respectful room with many TRDMB members that have no reservations of expressing their views some good some bad.
Mr North Jersey
4/8/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
I see 4d already expressed some of my same concerns.
gipperpdx
4/8/2010-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Amen!
GravediggerHebner
4/8/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
As often happens, I see more than one side of this situation.
I appreciate that people use the chatroom as a place to blow off steam, a place to react with suicidal thoughts on one bad pitch and with orgasmic thoughts on the good one that immediately follows. Some people react that instantly and in that manner, that’s their thing and good for them.
Where I agree with Prismo, or at least where I find my views similar to what I perceive his to be, is that I can’t stand that kind of environment. I do not have the emotional strength to deal well with instant-group-rollercoaster reaction. I have learned that about myself and for that reason precisely I do not participate about 99% of the time in in-game chats/threads. I just can’t deal with it.
But that’s my problem, and I handle it my way, which is to avoid others who handle their problems in a different way by expressing them instantly and thoroughly. I internalize mine and take the long view, and that just doesn’t work in a pitch-by-pitch environment.
So to each his/her own and may we all enjoy the games in ways that best suit us.
Kingman 26
4/8/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
I am with you for a change.
I don’t think it is an issue of strength, I think it is an issue of emotional silliness; I feel that I just don’t need that nonsense in my life.
Last night was a bad loss and Maine looked awful, but there were loads of positives.
This team has a great core and lots of great prospects. The future is bright.
Mr North Jersey
4/8/2010-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
You see that is the point the roller coaster you mention is what I failed to see. What I saw was what you call expressing concern not the sky is falling approach or we will win the W.S. approach one sees when using the roller coaster analogy.
I understand if there was a roller coaster approach but other than 1 person who the roller coaster is always falling I failed to see anything like that.
Mr North Jersey
4/8/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Again I apologize if I am overreacting but in the dugout what was said was nothing more than what is expressed on this blog everyday. I welcome all to come see for themselves. If you can handle with differing views you will find the dugout can be a good place to hang out if you are looking to be around Mets fans.
GravediggerHebner
4/8/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
I wasn’t there so I can’t comment on this specific instance. I can only say that based on numerous past experiences in that type of “instant reaction” scenario, I do not handle it well, so knowing that I no longer participate.
Again I can only guess because I wasn’t there, but I will guess that you failed to see something that I would’ve looked at differently (not rightly or wrongly, just differently) and I would’ve seen it and it would’ve annoyed me.
If what I see that I find depressing/annoying rolls of your back that’s great for you, less stress, longer life.
I would also like less stress and a longer life so knowing my stress buttons, I (skillfully?) avoid them.
Mr North Jersey
4/8/2010-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
If I have to choose I choose Long Life indeed.
I know you are only talking about your personal experiences. I just don’t want people that have never been to the dugout to get the wrong impression based on 1 person’s experience. You are right some can handle things better than others and I welcome all to come see for themselves and decide if it is for them.
GravediggerHebner
4/8/2010-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
I agree completely with what you’re saying here Mr. NJ.
Anyone curious should experience the environment for themselves. No one is going to be harmed.
I just know that the environment is not for me. I also know that it is precisely what many people enjoy and even thrive in. Just not me.
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
Well said. This is what I was trying to express. Just didn’t want anyone scared off from joining.
If it’s not any one’s personnel enjoyment, that’s fine. Nothing wrong with that. I’m the type Grave has defined as letting a lot roll off my back so what I find amusing, some might find really annoying. And again, there is no right or wrong as it’s personalities and that’s what makes the world go ’round.
As jerz pointed out, just didn’t want anyone to get the idea we’re all always doom and gloom in the Dugout. We actually have a lot of laughs most nights.
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
And let me just add….as far as living a longer life, may I live long enough to see another NY Met WS championship!
ceetar
4/8/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Better than the panic room over at hotfoot anywy.
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
I got the impression that room doesn’t exist anymore at hotfoot. There was a Dave somebody or other on Monday in the Dugout asking about it. Apparently, he was a regular there and thought the Dugout was the ‘new’ Hotfoot bleacher room.
prismo
4/8/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Honestly, it’s the strong negativity of a couple specific people who drag everyone down. I’m not going to name names (though it’s no one who’s posted anything today), but I think a couple people being consistently negative can take a toll on everyone in the chat room.
I think most everyone else was reasonably negative for what was going on in the game at the time, but it was still too much for me as a whole.
Am I banned from the Dugout now?
GravediggerHebner
4/8/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Not banned but your percentage of votes in the election for Dugout moderator may suffer
prismo
4/8/2010-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Haha, I know you’re joking, but let me say the following.
I typically refrain from posting strong opinion pieces, because of a fear of rejection I guess. I know our members are hardcore fans and no matter what opinion you take, there will be some of those fans on the opposite end of the spectrum, and they’ll call you out on it. I can’t tell you how many pieces I’ve written and discarded in the past year…well maybe I can – a couple dozen or so?
I felt like this one I really needed to get off my chest though; I felt especially strong about it. And look, I still got a few people who are semi-offended by it (no offense NJ and 4D). I mean, I can take it, but I’d rather not have to.
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
No, don’t get me wrong. I’m not offended. It’s your opinion and that’s fine, I respect that.
I just wanted all who were reading, who haven’t yet tried the Dugout, to see it from another perspective – or rather from my own which is obviously the opposite of yours. And that’s O.K. I truly wasn’t trying to ‘call you out’ on your post.
darknova306
4/8/2010-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
You can’t please everyone all the time, Prismo. Be vocal about your opinion and enjoy the discussion it starts.
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
And now I feel bad. Because last thing I wanted to do is make anyone of our great authors think twice about posting any of their opinion pieces.
I cannot tell you how much I’ve enjoyed this blog from day one, the many different opinions from my fellow Met fans and the ensuing debate on many of those. To me, this is a far better and enjoyable place to both read and post than the last place I was doing that at….
prismo
4/8/2010-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t worry 4D! I’ve thought twice about this stuff from day 1!
Honestly, if I write something and you disagree with it – I’d rather you call me out than stay silent.
I don’t even know how to properly describe why I think twice about making strong opinion pieces. I certainly never get offended or hurt by responses though. So no worries, I promise.
Mr North Jersey
4/8/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
None taken I am of course saddened that you came away feeling the way you do but I respect your feelings on the matter and I hope you know you are always welcome there. In the end I just didn’t want people to come away with the impression that the dugout is not a good place to go to pass the time while watching the game. On the contrary if you read this blog and enjoy the differing comments then the dugout is a place you should definitely check out.
Yes you will find those that will focus on what is wrong but you will also find those that focus on what is right and you will find that on those occasions that the game gets away from the Mets we can get pretty funny with side discussions. Ranging from is it true that people that have sex live longer to learning Spanish 101.
prismo
4/8/2010-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
Trust me, no need to apologize. It takes more than this to get to me (for example: extreme cases of negativity). I feel just fine – I promise!
Anyway, I’ll be out of town for the next couple days, so treat the Dugout as you wish!
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
LOL –
I’ve only seen the banning of posters who are deliberately crude (and good, b/c that’s one thing I can’t stand) and consistently over the to top with the negativity of the team sux, etc. etc.
For me, who doesn’t get to games, who doesn’t get out much at all, who watches games on TV by my lonesome, it’s just a venue to enjoy those games with some of my fellow Met fans.
prismo
4/8/2010-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Why should I have to change my policies? I’m right!
ceetar
4/8/2010-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
It’s frustrating, but what annoys me is when people take it “out of game” Maine gives up a home run it’s fine to call him a loser say he sucks wahtever, but that’s not the time to talk about releasing him, replacing him in the rotation, etc. talk about pulling him in thegame, but don’t bring up Figeuroa and say he should be starting that game.
And the pre-negativity. I don’t want to hear “He’s gonna ground out here” when Castillo walks to the plate in a big moment like it’s a forgone conclusion.
tkfj
4/8/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
Hmm. I know my antics can be annoying but most of the time it is an attempt to have some fun and get a reaction. But, because of the annoyance I will tone down my “woe is me” behavior.
Woke up this morning and determined that it isnt much fun to be a fan when you are constantly criticizing every little move. Time to just be a fan and enjoy watching some baseball.
prismo
4/8/2010-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
That’s a very mature post Tkfj! Did your mom hack your account?
lol..just kidding. Thanks for understanding, and I appreciate your candidness.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/8/2010-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
Wow…
metsfan4decades
4/8/2010-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
Ha! There’s our young friend.
Hang in there…..you’ve got a lot of years ahead of you to see the Mets right the ship and win a championship.
saltygary
4/8/2010-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
Off to build the ARC…
TK please don’t change your approach, these goody too shoe positive folks around here need a good dose of gasoline and fire sometimes.
njstuckintx
4/8/2010-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
It’s like Extreme left wing/right wing politics. You pay them no mind and search for something more towards the middle, as that will be closer to the truth (preferably leaning more towards the optimistic side for me, personally).
In this day and age of instant gratification, it’s tough not to get swept up in the here and now.
saltygary
4/8/2010-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
One thing I kept stressing in the offseason, is how the media will be crushing if the team is slow out of the gate. After reading the articles this morning they are sitting in the shadows waiting to pounce on the wounded. We know what the issues with the team are and after the last couple of seasons it is hard not to overreact. If the assumed issues come to light we just need to take a step back, take a breath and let the heads roll and look forward to the future while not getting too crazy. If if our assumptions are incorrect then sit back, enjoy the ride and look forward to the future.
njstuckintx
4/8/2010-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
I always enjoyed nice little 3 hours tours…
ceetar
4/8/2010-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
The mainstream media’s catching on. Adam Rubin:
“am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. But”
(re: ignoring Pagan)
Do you think if the Mets are average ~5 games over .500 mid-may) that the Mets could be pressured to release him anyway?
tkfj
4/8/2010-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
Release who? GMJ?
Kingman 26
4/8/2010-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
Manuel?
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/8/2010-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
Jacobs and Cat!
tkfj
4/8/2010-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
Wow. Yea, reading comprehension fail. I think you are right. I guess thats what happens when you have to wake up at 8:00 AM for a Physics lab.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/8/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
Good blog by Rubin. I completely agree with what he says in the article.
I understand the move to start Tejada tonight, but to hit him in leadoff spot while you have Pagan or Castillo? I really don’t understand where Jerry is coming from.
Jerry, if you want to tinker with the lineup, do what makes sense. Not just flip a coin and see who leads off or hits clean up. Ugh!
njstuckintx
4/8/2010-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
With the few Gansta’s that I’ve had dealings with, they were not what you would describe as educated. Maybe we could put Manuel under that umbrella, or dare I say under that bandana of a specifc color?
gategem
4/8/2010-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t generally participate in chat rooms or game threads since I don’t want the emotional rollercoaster ride of most of the fans ruining my enjoyment of the game. And, Prismo, if attending an in game chat room affects you to where you feel compelled to write an alternately whining and ranting article about the chat room guests then you should avoid in game chat rooms also.
As I said last night and for the reasons I enumerated last night I didn’t like Tatis trying to score there. The pitcher had the ball waiting for him so the play was not that close. But it was an error caused by aggressive play and I rather have that then an error caused by the player being too passive. And the team did bounce back last night and showed some good plate discipline. In the past plate discipline was not a quality we have seen from this club in abundance. OTOH the game illuminated the weakness caused by some of the lesser talented bullpen pitchers (and I’m not including Mejia in that group). However, the most important issue from last nights game is Maine’s lost velocity. A drop of 4 to 5 mph in fastball velocity is not a trivial issue. Let’s hope that it’s a mental thing caused by Maine being reticent to let it loose (so to speak) for fear of re-injuring himself rather then a physical problem.