Well here we are one week into the 2010 season and our Mets so far have a record of 2-4. The Mets could have easily been 4-2 with a great play by Willie Harris on Saturday, and some head scratching decisions by Jerry this past Wednesday, but I guess when you are in sole possession of the National League basement you look at the what ifs and what should have beens.
And now we hear and read all the talking heads on the television, radio and print media trying to rile up the Mets faithful, pretty much beckoning us to sharpen our pitchforks and light our torches to descend on Citi Field and demand the carcass of Jerry Manuel for us to desecrate. But we have to ask the question – Has time started to tick away on Jerry Manuel’s tenure as Mets manager? I feel the Mets ownership and the front office have Jerry on a short leash, but not so short that he would be fired one month into the season. Jerry thus far has at least in the eyes of the public has done a less than stellar job at managing this season. Fans and even sportscasters alike are wondering why players such as Gary Matthews Jr is getting more playing time over the better outfield option , Angel Pagan. If anything, Angel is a fielding outfielder than Matthews, and his biggest strength is that he’s a pure hitter with speed. This brings us to the batting lineup. Why was Alex Cora utilized in the leadoff spot for the first couple of games? Hell I can run faster than him! Last season when Jose Reyes was on the d.l , Pagan proved to be a more than adequate replacement for the speedy Reyes. He hit many triples and a few homers – more than you would ever see from Cora, and I do feel that this might have cost the Mets at least one win during the Marlins series. Then there is Mike Jacobs. I love Mike Jacobs – I really do , but when you bat a career .250 hitter with a ob% that would embarrass Dave Kingman you know that your lineup is weak – or your manager is incompetent. I’ll leave you with this . I believe that it will take everything to go wrong with the Mets before Manuel and most of his staff are fired mid season. If the Mets play a mediocre season and finish at or slightly above .500 he will be dismissed after the season has ended. Jerry it s time to get your ass “prepared” , because I believe  Willie Randolph will have a better shot of managing again before you ever will !
Â
                                                                                                
           ” Jerry if you keep up this level of managing, not even Gandhi will be able to save your job !”
And with that said … HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!!
Happy Birthday wishes go out to the primary Mets catcher from 64-66, Johnny Stephenson .(1941) In a bit of trivia , it was John who made the last out in Jim Bunning’s perfect game against the Mets at Shea Stadium in ’64.
Mets reliever for a blink of an eye, Ricardo Rincon is 40.(1970). Rincon pitched four innings with the Mets in late ’08 , posting a e.r.a of 4.50 – but still us Mets fans preferred to see him over Scott Schoenweiss anyday.
And the Mo Vaughn tidbit of the day – Mo has just published a diet book. Its called ” A Fridge Too Far !”
Anyway Lets Go Mets !! Rock The Rockies !!!
117 comments
metsfan4decades
4/13/2010-7:14am at 7:14 am (UTC -4)
Well, if I remember correctly, they fired Davey Johnson something like 40 games into the season in 1990 so I don’t think it’s inconceivable they would do it again.
Let’s face it, unless you’re Bobby Cox of the modern day era, managing a ML ball club has to be the least secure job out there. It’s always going to be the manager who gets the ax first if a team isn’t playing well – whether deserved or not.
What won’t help this team is the constant speculation of the firing of the manager hanging over their head. We don’t want a repeat of the circus that was May/June of 2008.
I really do believe either this team starts playing up to their potential or the only thing we’re going to be reading/hearing about day after day is the ‘Jerry watch’.
rustyjr
4/13/2010-7:37am at 7:37 am (UTC -4)
Yeah I agree this is eeirily becoming a reduex of ’08
trs86
4/13/2010-8:20am at 8:20 am (UTC -4)
As much of a circus that the firing was in 2008 lets remember it was effective. Many point to the fact that we had a collapse but in reality it was a remarkable turn around.
rustyjr
4/13/2010-8:25am at 8:25 am (UTC -4)
Excellent point ! It’s a shame that the team essentially ran out of gas that last week of ’08
metsfan4decades
4/13/2010-8:28am at 8:28 am (UTC -4)
I’m not disputing that change was needed in ’08 – I agree there.
I’m saying the month leading up to that ‘midnight massacre’ was nothing but a Willie watch. And don’t you think that affected that team and their play? How can you play cohesively like a team with an ax poised over the skipper’s head?
It’s hard to get behind a manager and play your heart out if all anyone is talking about – and all these beat writers are asking you about – is your loyalty to the manager, if this is affecting your play, the clubhouse, the team, etc., etc.
trs86
4/13/2010-8:32am at 8:32 am (UTC -4)
No doubt, it should have been done earlier. I agree the team most likely viewed the firing as a weight lifted off their shoulders. I spoke this off-season about the need to fire Jerry and or Omar. Either you have confidence in them or you don’t.
ceetar
4/13/2010-8:43am at 8:43 am (UTC -4)
Disagree. They didn’t immediately play better. T hey were winning before the change. The talent just naturally come though, which it is apt to do. Manuel then started mismanaging the team and very possibly cost them the season with his misuse of the bullpen. The team was much better than the ’07 team theoretically, given Santana, and yet still couldn’t seal the deal.
trs86
4/13/2010-8:49am at 8:49 am (UTC -4)
April 13 12 112 116 .520
May 13 15 140 136 .464
June 13 15 120 132 .464
July 18 8 153 100 .692
August 18 11 142 111 .621
September 13 12 125 118 .520
Pretty drastic to me. You can say it had nothing to do with Manuel but that’s not provable. Only thing we know is that from July on they were a different team.
trs86
4/13/2010-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
Willie Randolph (34-35) and Jerry Manuel (55-38)
ceetar
4/13/2010-8:56am at 8:56 am (UTC -4)
Managers are only loosely about records. I do think the change was probably needed, and did perhaps spark the team (although would Willie is the guy. 100%. clear cut, no firings. shut up. have done the same thing? Just firing the coaches and moving on from there?) Regardless if the record, Manuel managed the team to the same result as the previous year, made no brilliant moves down the stretch and gave away games and misused the bullpen. The Heilman game winning home run to Pujols still bothers me.
trs86
4/13/2010-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
Manuel is a bad manager, however if we are giving him credit for blowing the chance at the post season you also have to give him the credit for putting us in the position to blow it. It works both ways.
metsfan4decades
4/13/2010-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
I was at this game. My last game at Shea.
Sigh….
njstuckintx
4/13/2010-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
How does one go from what Manuel did to where he is now? I’m convinced it’s all smoke and tricked out gangsta mirrors.
trs86
4/13/2010-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
Most likely going to boil down to the fact that this team as currently constructed will struggle with pressure.
Kingman 26
4/13/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
The team had a lot more health and talent in 2008 than since then.
I think that’s where a guy like Cox or Bobby V or Showalter comes in, at least short term.
Change the culture, motivate the motivatable guys, NOT bat Jacobs cleanup which is grounds for dismissal in itself, NOT play the rotten GMJ, NOT bunt every 5 seconds, and generally get the most from what you have.
trs86
4/13/2010-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Kingman we may have to face that this group of players is just not going to be motivated for the long haul. It very well may not be the manager but a stark need in players. Perhaps that is why Omar has brought in guys like Frenchy, Barajas, Bay and Cora. For that matter maybe Jacobs is one of those guys, rather have him on the bench than in the lineup of course.
Kingman 26
4/13/2010-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
TRS you are reading my mind.
Perhaps the people who have said that Wright and Reyes just do not have the fire to win are right.
Sure they work hard and stay in shape and hustle, but maybe they just do not have an iota of Keith or Bobby O’s burning desire to win.
Sad to contemplate, but after hearing Wright spew the same meaningless, vanilla cliches for the umpteenth time, I am wondering about the Core for the first time.
Not a pretty thought.
But how the hell can you be a millionaire athlete who just had a 4+ month break and be unprepared in game 6 of the season? Are the Phils, Yanks, Tigers, Cards, etc etc etc unprepared? The Nats? The Marlins?
Again, maybe LoDuca, Floyd, Valentin, and even Endy and Bradford were much bigger cogs in 2006 than we thought at the time.
stickguy
4/13/2010-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
TRS, given the other turn over and missing guys, it seems like you must be saying get rid of Wright, sinc ehe is about the last “real” player left right now that didn’t miss huge amounts of time.
Well, him and Castillo, and you know I support ditching him.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
No I don’t think Wright needs to go at all. In-fact I still think he is one of the guys you build around. However, I would not be up in arms if they dealt Reyes, Beltran, Castillo, Maine, Perez, if they did it with return in mind.
udontmesswthejohan
4/13/2010-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
Yes, effective in the short term, but we see what has happened in the long term. I was thinking about this last night, and the reason I think the Mets are in this position right now is because they inserted Jerry in that posisition because he had a track record with the White Sox, and he was there. More often than not, a team will respond to a new manager simply because he isn’t the other guy who just got canned.
The problem is that I’m not sure everyone within the orginization was convinced that Jerry was the long term solution, couple that with a collapse and a year to forget last year, and you have the situation we are in now.
According to Fatty, brenley is the one who is next in line for the job should they make a change. I think I would explore some other options, but the most important thing the Mets need to do if they give him the job is make sure that this is the guy you want to be the managere for at least the next 3 years. Otherwise we will be back in this same situation a year and ahalf from now calling for Backman, Valentine, whoever to take over the job from him.
Kingman 26
4/13/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
Agreed all around.
They must NOT hire Collins or Melvin, two mediocrities.
If not Bobby V or Showalter or Teufel or Backman, then yes on Brenly.
trs86
4/13/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
I am not sure that Brenly is that much better than Melvin.
Kingman 26
4/13/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
I disagree. I think Brenly is more of a guy to motivate this seemingly unmotivated group.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
Why? I don’t know enough about him to think he is a better motivator.
trs86
4/13/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I guess nothing in baseball is effective long-term. Thus why managers get fired left and right.
njstuckintx
4/13/2010-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
That’s right up Manuel’s alley! If it was Right, Right, Right, Left, Left, I would know you weren’t talking about the General.
udontmesswthejohan
4/13/2010-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
I’m sorry, I meant to say Bob Melvin in the post above.
TRS,
By long term, I’m not saying it has to be Bobby Cox long term, I’m talking 3 years. This orginization is in dire need of stability. For the sake of the team, and for the sake of the fan’s sanity.
All I’m saying is that they need to make sure that the next guy they bring in is the one they are willing to give 3 years to.
trs86
4/13/2010-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
I agree. I guess at this point they are closing in on that with Jerry. Wrong guy but…
trs86
4/13/2010-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
As for Brenly instead of Melvin yeah I herd the Melvin rumor but I thought you might have had something new. We do know that Brenly wants to get back in.
udontmesswthejohan
4/13/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Ha, no, no inside info on Brenly, just always get those two guys confused for some reason. Not sure why. My bad.
Kingman 26
4/13/2010-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
“A Fridge Too Far.”
HA!!!
One of your all-time BEST! That’s great!
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Anyone who puts a career .250 hitter as a cleanup hitter is not a smart manager.
I just wish Jerry would put up a consistent lineup out every day so the players are more comfortable with their spot. I’m just sick and tired of his tinkering. Lefty-Righty match up is way too overrated. Phillies did just fine with Utley, Howard, Ibanez.
In 6 games, Jerry probably had 6 different lineups. C’mon. Stop effin’ around and stick to one lineup. Stop platooning players and stop putting Jacobs in 4/5 spot.
njstuckintx
4/13/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
Amen to that.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
I’m just sick of constant tinkering of the line up. You mean to tell me that the only reason you put Jacobs in 4/5 spot is to get him to hit a lot of HRs? That’s all fine and dandy for Jacobs, but what about the lost scoring opportunities for Bay and Frenchy? What is more important here? Jacobs hitting HRs or Bay/Frenchy driving a lot of runs? This is a team game and not an individual stats game.
I personally don’t give a crap if Jacobs hits 1 HR or 1000 HRs as long as the team wins. So what’s best for the TEAM? I just cannot imagine Jerry/Omar are not realizing this. All I see is incompetence.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
I would think that if the Mets wanted Jacobs hitting 7th or not playing at all they would take care of it.
trs86
4/13/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Gotta platoon 1B. No way around it. I guess you could start Tatis everyday but Jacobs has shown to be better against RHP. I don’t think the platoon is part of the problem at all.
As for Jacobs, I guess the thought was that he would see better pitches mashed in between Wright and Bay. It has not hurt Frenchy for sure but at this point you have to change it up.
metsfan4decades
4/13/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Normally, don’t you put your struggling batters lower in the lineup?
Last year aside – like when Murph or Tatis batted cleanup b/c there was no one else….why should Jacobs even be considered a cleanup hitter until if/when he starts hitting?
I hate this constant tinkering – whether it be in the lineup or the BP.
If I’m not mistaken that was one of Jerry’s main downfalls in Chicago.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
I think you are right. A lot of managers will use different spots in the order to “try and get a guy going”. Willie was famous for using the 2 spot to do that. I don’t know if that’s better or worse.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
It’s one thing to “try and get a guy going” when the team is winning. But it’s a completely different issue when the team starts off 2-4 with the season you had last year. I mean who really cares if Jacobs gets going or not as long as the team wins?
The point of this season should be to win and not “Let’s get Jacobs going so that he can hit 30 HRs”.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
I think that’s a catch 22. If things are going well you don’t have to get him going. LOL. I don’t like the decision just saying there is rational for it in breaking up the RH and low OBP guys as well as the “try and get a guy going”. We may not like the rational but it’s there.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
I understand the rational. But don’t you agree that it does not work here? I know it’s only been a week, but I just don’t see the potential that this lineup is going to work at all.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
I can’t blame it on Jacobs entirely though. Having Cora, Jacobs, and GMJR in the same lineup is not going to produce regardless of the lineup order unless the others get really hot.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
I agree.
Kingman 26
4/13/2010-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
Well, I think Jerry is basing his decision on Jacobs’ outstanding OBP and the fear he instills in pitchers.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
Yes his very insightful and intelligent analysis.
stickguy
4/13/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
cool, as post to sink your teeth into!
I agree with TRS that it seems they put Jerry on a short leash this year, giving him one more shot. But, IMO, if you have that little confidence, and see obvious deficinecies, then you should have fired him in the off season and been done with it. Sometiems it seems the FO just needs to grow a piar, and make a freakin decision and go with it.
SO, a week in this case actually is enough time to come to the realization that you goofed, and he should have been cnned. So if you do come to that, there really is no reason to wait 40 games or 3 months, or some other arbitrary amount of time. Just get the death watch over with, and move on.
and as nice as it would be to see a great, LT guy put in place, I think they very likely end up with one of the in house guys (Melvin) in a quasi-interim role. But, that also relates to Omar being on a short leash, in case they have to clean out the FO too. Unless, of course, they already know which guy there will replace Omar, and let him sign off on the manager.
metsfan4decades
4/13/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
I’m leaning more and more towards this mindset too.
As others have said, I think they should have done this in the off season. They used the ‘injuries’ card to convince themselves Jerry deserved another chance. Question is, how long will they go with him?
And the longer they go with them and this team is still struggling, the more we’re going to hear about the ‘Jerry watch’ everyday.
Very distracting to the players, IMO.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
Yup, you come out and say baring a Willie like melt down in the press Jerry will be our manager this season.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
Or you fire him now.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
I agree Stick. I have never understood the idea of well we don’t have any confidence in you but we will give you one more shot. Either you are what we want or you are not. If you think after 50 games you may have to fire Jerry then you should have taken care of it to start with.
stickguy
4/13/2010-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
unfortunately making quick decisions and acting on them has not been a hallmark of this management team lately.
However, if the ticket sales (or lack of same) gets to be too much of an issue to ignore, hitting the owners where they live, then that might spur them into action.
Remember, that was not any kind of a factor in 2008.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
Or the owners are more willing to just ride out the contract to save some money rather than going out to spend on a new manager/GM.
stickguy
4/13/2010-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
forget omar for a minute. They have plenty of other cooks in the FO kitchen.
So it is just Jerry, and the ~1mill they owe him. Relative chump change, even for a cheap owner (and not saying the Mets have one). Maybe it is more the principle of the thing? Stubborness?
But money wise, no real cost if they jus tplug in someone on hand (well, maybe a raise for th eyear). SNd if they project an uptick in ticket sales (new manager bounce, or better record), then it might make them money to ditch Jerry.
At least it will shut up the critics that claim they don’t care about the team or winning.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I don’t see the Wilpons being anything close to cheap either. Closest thing is abiding by the rules with the draft and it appears that MAY change as well.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think the Wilpons are cheap either. But I also think they are business minded people first.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
If they were business minded first couldn’t they get buy with a 90M payroll and still make more money?
ceetar
4/13/2010-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Like I said yesterday, this is fine if the manager has had success. I can understand, though I didn’t agree, with giving Willie the two months of ’08 based on getting them into the NLCS in ’06. But Manuel has no resume or success here to say “well, he did it once so we know it’s possible..”
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
I think firing Jerry was more of money decision than anything. I know it’s only $1M for his salary, but I just don’t think Wilpons wanted to pay another manager while you have Jerry on your books. Mets have been paying Willie’s salary till last year, so I just don’t think Wilpons would want to pay salaries for 2 managers this year again.
Same thing with Omar. His contract begins this year. I highly doubt that the Wilpons will want to get rid of him this year or the next for that matter.
fongy2
4/13/2010-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
If true…Thats a sad statement give the tens of millions Omars been allowed to waste on guys who never helped much AND who were unlikely to help
much when signed.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
yup
trs86
4/13/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
I just don’t think money has anything to do with it. Perhaps they are looking for that stability thing you are talking about. I keep saying that if we don’t make the playoffs this year there will be a huge shake up no matter what, managers, players, etc.
udontmesswthejohan
4/13/2010-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
And one other thing that I think this team, orginization, and fan base needs to get over is this constant sentiment that “once we get Reyes back, we will be all right” or “once we get Beltran back, we will be all right”.
Yes, once Jose gets back into form that will undoubtedly help, and the same for Beltran, but the guys who are healthy and out there now, need to do their jobs as well. There can’t be this constant feeling of, “Well once we have out full compliment of players back we can flip the switch on”. It doesn’t work that way. Stop worrying about who isn’t here and worry about the guys you have on the field. Hell, you can put 1998 Mike Piazza out there, but that ain’t going to have an effect on the bad baseball (base running mistake, mental errors on defense) that these guys have been playing for the last year and a half.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
Especially if they are “unprepared” to face Livan the Great.
fongy2
4/13/2010-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
The thing about Managing in the bigs is, it ain’t that complicated. The most important thing a Mgr has to have is
the respect of his players. Does Jerry have that? Doubtful.
He wasn’t a great former player, doesn’t have a great record
of success AND frankly has done things to undermine himself
like having a dog house for certain players…
Look, this guy as I’ve said before is someone who thinks hes the
smartest guy in the room, while having done nothing to actually
show that. He is a below average Manager, most of the coaching
staff is below average with no great track record, the starting
pitching is bad and the bullpen not much better.
Again, how was this gonna add up to a success??
Throw in Omarwho is a shaky GM, now on shaky ground AND no Beltran….Contention seemed like a pipe-dream coming in….
AND this group hasn’t done anything to change that.
Kingman 26
4/13/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
The team worshipped Gil Hodges, most of the guys seriously respected Yogi Berra, Davey was respected by most and loved by some, Bobby V was also respected by most and loved by quite a few, and even Willie I am sure was liked and respected more than Jerry.
Jerry’s “unprepared” comment was, to me, reason for dismissal TODAY.
Whether he meant he and his rotten coaching staff, or whether he was again stabbing his players, it was a ridiculous and moronic thing to say. After SIX games!
I am starting to agree with those who say Jerry carefully feeds the media so that they do not attack and call for his empty frigin head.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
I think Jerry was trying to put the blame on himself and off the players but just like most things it did not work.
fongy2
4/13/2010-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
Ya know I get to see ALOT of Phils down here
and Charlie Manuel really is a big goober BUT
he’s also a simple,old school,worldly,very experienced baseball man. Because of these things and the fact that he trusts his players to play and act like men AND treats everyone the same….
His players love him.
Far cry from what goes on in Met land.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Thing is based on what we know the Mets players “love” Jerry too. Interesting that before the Phillies had talent running out of their ears (had it there already but not clicking) they almost ran Goober out of town.
metsfan4decades
4/13/2010-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
Well, I can’t agree with ‘the BP isn’t much better’. After the first week, it’s just about the only star shining.
Hard to dispute the rest of your points though.
saltygary
4/13/2010-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
Dream Shake up…
Bobby V. back at the helm, Cliff at 3rd (sorry that yahoo at 3rd falling the other night waving the dude home is grounds for dismissal) and Wally as the bench coach.
It’s time to get some accountability and attitude on the team and show others that the Mets will stomp a mud-hole in anyone that wants to challenge them.
Every night Bobby will get Wally really drunk on JD and have him put on of the those spiked rottweiler collars and attach it to the field entrance on the dugout. Every time someone like Victorino even dares to look at someone the wrong way Bobby V. goes to release the collar and unleash hell.
Kingman 26
4/13/2010-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
That last paragraph is HILARIOUS!
I appreciate you injecting some humor into this sad and annoying situation!
Cliff as bench coach!
metsfan4decades
4/13/2010-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Thing is, I believe if they fire Jerry now, or mid season, we’re looking at an interim manager for the rest of this year. No way do they give another manager a 2 or 3 year contract this year. And if it’s not a multi year deal and only has ‘interim’ attached to it, I don’t believe Bobby V. is taking that job.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, interim gets a guy like Jerry back at the helm.
metsfan4decades
4/13/2010-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
Exactly. Which is why this should have been done at the end of last season.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. At least, as much as I am not the biggest fan, there is a chance they could bring in Bobby V. He does have an out and it would appease a fanbase that if the losing continues will need appeasing. Perhaps look at it as a mid-season trade.
njstuckintx
4/13/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
I would like for them to bring him back, but I think that they are willing to travel back on that bridge. I get the feeling that they like burning bridges. No Billy Martin Situation here.
saltygary
4/13/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
What brought you to this conclusion? I think it’s naive to think that the team doesn’t have this step already mapped out and I’m sure they have had discussions with some folks. If a change is going to be made this season it will either be early and fit in a non-interim peice, or they will let the team fail for the sake of saving a couple million on a manager contract. The Mets have enough money to float another fired manager.
The writing has been on the wall for a while, this is not something that has just started to brew after the first week. It is also known that Bobby V. is personal friends with the Wilpons and it would be easy to bring him in. If they wanted another direction Wally can step up as well. They didn’t re-align the minor league coaching to make Jerry fell safe.
metsfan4decades
4/13/2010-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
I could be wrong, but how many times have you seen a manager fired and the next manager brought in on a multi year contract?
I think the Wilpons will be cautious with this next manager because they don’t want to end up paying multi managers after a firing. They’ll want to see how the new one does, if it’s a good fit. Especially if they’re going to bring in a rookie manager.
koose
4/13/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
I think if anyone gets fired its Omar first.There comes a point in where a GM has to sit down with his manager and go over strategy on what’s working, and if Omar is not doing that (which we don’t know)then he’s the first one axed.Look jerry is a bonehead we all agree, the players seem to like him but he didn’t put this team together he didn’t sign Jacobs,Tatis,Cora or tade for Matthews all of the players in my view who aren’t getting it done. And it might be Omars decision to play Matthews over Pagan to get his trade value up, also jerry didn’t make the decision to not get a legit starting pitcher.My choice is Omar for fire.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Lets be fair to Omar here Koose. He had no intentions of Jacobs, Tatis, Cora or Matthews starting long-term.
fongy2
4/13/2010-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Yeah BUT he DID intend to have Maine,Ollie,Pelf
as our 2,3,4 SP….AND no clue as to who might
Pitch the 8th….If we ever got there with a lead.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
I think he had lots of clues in the pen. He made gambles on setup men in a setup man barren FA list. He was praised all in the press for the Escobar adn Iggy signings as well as Calero. You may not like the idea but I am guessing many felt he had depth there to handle that spot.
As for MOP true enough that he did not address them. However, Pelfrey and Perez were going nowhere like it or not. Perhaps they did rely to much on Maine but that being said Omar did look into a few pitchers this off-season and I thought did a good job restraining himself from guys like Pineiro and Marquis.
fongy2
4/13/2010-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Bottom line, he allowed/built this team(2010) With 4 question marks
in the rotation and even more in the pen. THAT, combined with the
Mgr/coaching staff HE hired, the
questions about the health of Beltran and Reyes…AND everything
else which can easily be questioned
about this team didn’t look like
a recipe for success to me.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
You may be right. Still disagree with the pen. Also, how do you fix the questions of health with Beltran and Reyes? Can’t go get guys to replace them.
fongy2
4/13/2010-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
There wasn’t one really viable,even
quasi-sure thing
in the Pen outside
of feliciano and KRod coming INTO S.T..
You can disagree all you want,God Bless American….
BUT as I’ve posted many,many times
when you have 4 SPers who you can’t count on getting
through a line-up
more than twice,you
NEED a real strong pen since theyre gonna be in there all the time.
I saw where the Brewers had the least amount of IPs
by SPers last season
with close to 900.
As I’ve said,a good team 95% of the time
needs ALEAST 1000ips
from their starters.
Where was this gonna come from???
And Reyes and Beltran are one thing…Another Omar
fiasco I’d argue
BUT bold moves needed to be made
somewhere in the line-up…Not just replacing Delgados
.280/30/100 with Bays.
trs86
4/13/2010-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
Look at other pens in the majors, they are all crap shoots. Look at Atlanta, Philly, FLA, Nats they are all just as or even more suspect than ours.
fongy2
4/13/2010-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Yeah BUT the good teams have more than one SP they can count on to
get through an order
more than twice.
trs86
4/13/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
Really? Giving that much credit to the Nats and Marlins?
njstuckintx
4/13/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
It really feels like it’s Jerry telling Omar what to do, doesn’t it?
stickguy
4/13/2010-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
yeah, many of the reports were that Jerry wanted, and was getting, these guys.
So while it is hard to interpret the truth sometimes, there seems to be enough smoke to believe the fire that Omar didn’t just foist these losers on an innocent Jerry.
and while Jerry is kind of stuck with jacobs, it still doesn’t explain his love affair with GMjr.
njstuckintx
4/13/2010-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
I forget who it was that said it was “omar giving Jerry enough rope…” Let’s see what transpires.
ceetar
4/13/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
That’s what disturbs me the most.
But by all accounts what Omar has actually done has been pretty good. It’s so hard to evaluate when you suspect he’s not being allowed to do everything he wants. (Francesa floating this yesterday to, but can’t respect what he says)
Based on Omar’s comments I believe he did want to sign another pitcher, but I believe he had faith in Niese as well (only one spot in the rotation to sign for) He just wasn’t sure if Niese would be ready right off. I think he has faith in Mejia and Familiga and all the other guys (Holt, Gee, maybe even Parnell?) to make it to the rotation this year or next year, and didn’t want to get locked down with long contracts on bad or risky pitchers. He floated one year contracts out there on the guys he liked, didn’t get a bite, and figured they’d go in-house and look for a rental halfway through.
njstuckintx
4/13/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
I admit, the future looks bright, and if Omar is planning for the longer haul, then yes, he’s doing well for the team down the line. I’m very excited to see this team in 2011, now, just to make it through 2010…
As for the above plans, it does NOT help this year at all. And that’s what we are unfortunately in. We have flexibility for the futre, are not locked in, but what we have overall isn’t bright. Some very shiny point, but some very dull ones to boot.
Do you mortgage the future for the present? Knowing what is out there, I think Omar does have this long term vision in mind (with his brand new contract giving him some security). Not jumping for Lackey may in hindsight prove to be wise. But even a Wolf or Piniero for 2-3 years wouldn’t have killed the Mets $ wise and provided a (depending on how you want to view it) proven starter, allowing for Niese to mature and have someone ready to jump into the starting rotation, if (or when) MOP breaks. I guess we all feel that an exception GM could do both the long and short term.
trs86
4/13/2010-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
Actually it appears he made a very strong offer for Lackey but was outbid by the Sox. No one wanted to give him the years he wanted considering his injuries. Give the Sox credit for getting creative with the contract.
metsfan4decades
4/13/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
My choice was to replace both of they by last November 1. If I was a ‘betting man’, I was placing my bets on that. Still surprised the Wilpons didn’t do it.
fongy2
4/13/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Orrrr…..Betting Women???
I agree though. A bold move was needed…And none
were taken. Sad. Prime years of Santana,KRod,
Wright and Reyes are being wasted.
saltygary
4/13/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Completely agree, these guys are connected. If there is a change Omar and Jerry go first and once the manager comes in probably a couple mroe changes will be made in the coaching staff. Jeff can easily fill in for Omar while they find another poster boy.
stickguy
4/13/2010-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
with ricco and krivichky (sp?) floating around, I think they have enough GM depth to weather the strom of losing omar mid-season!
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Again I point towards $$. Omar is beginning his new contract this season. He is under a contract till 2012 season. I highly doubt he’ll get axed this season or the next season for that matter.
trs86
4/13/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Could also be the lack of a decent replacement or just faith in Omar.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
Probably some combination of all.
metsfan4decades
4/13/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
I just cannot believe it’s 14 April and the main thing we’re reading about and talking about is firing the manager. It’s like 2009 never ended.
Every blog post out there has some type of comment on this theme.
It’s been my experience in the work place, that change in management – whether good or bad, takes a while to make itself known. So if you got poor management stepping in the door (whether in this case it’s Omar or Jerry or both), it takes a while for poor decisions to manifest themselves. And when you finally ditch the poor management, it takes months, if not longer, to right the ship again.
It’s gonna be a long season…..
fongy2
4/13/2010-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
The reason is simple, really.
The off season and especially Spring Training brings hope
and lots of it. As fans we can look at and spin things
to the positive, thus furter building that hope…..
BUT when you actually see the product and compare it to
others….Hope diminishes quickly.
saltygary
4/13/2010-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
I am not surprised one bit. There were many times during the off-season where I said this would happen if the team was slow out of the gate. The media are sharks and need a story to sell advertising. Nothing sells more in NY then the death clock for managers. Worked for Bobby, Art, and Willie and it also worked for years on Torre.
The team had a hard time justifying the potential firings because of the injury excuse. Now week one if players aren’t prepared for a game, then they won’t be prepared for the rest of the season.
stickguy
4/13/2010-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
then don’t believe it, since it is only the 13th!
trs86
4/13/2010-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
LOL, nice catch.
metsfan4decades
4/13/2010-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Dang. You guys are right – lol.
trs86
4/13/2010-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
I think it’s time to dump Castillo for what we can get. You know I like Looooie but I really wonder what having Reyes and Tejada on defense would do for guys like Pelfrey? It also solves another problem. Castillo can really only hit in one (2 spots but the Mets won’t hit him lead-off). Tejada could hit 8th and you end up with something looking like this
Reyes, Pagan, Wright, Bay, Francouer, 1B, Barajas, Tejada. When Beltran returns you slide him into the 2nd spot and you don’t have to tinker with the lineup.
Thoughts?
fongy2
4/13/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
A little late for this post.
ceetar
4/13/2010-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
No. Castillo is nowhere near as bad as anyone makes him out to be. His defense isn’t even as suspect as we like to make out. Reyes and Murphy have good range which helps. (provided Murphy is back in 6 games like he says..)
Castillo top 25 in OBP. That’s a big deal for runs scored. Tejada just would be too much of a drain on the offense right now.
Castillo probably leads the team in BA with RISP since he’s been here. While that’s still a problem, you don’t replace him. (btw, that number for the team is always going to be lower when you try to manufacture runs with bunting, which also suggests sending guys up there with a philosophy of ‘hit it to the right side’ or ‘hit it in the air for a sac fly’. Those are outs. making outs is bad.)
CaseStreet
4/13/2010-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Um, I think Omar tried this winter, to no avail.
I wouldn’t do it yet. Castillo extends the lineup because you could hit him in the top of the lineup while Tejada has to hit 8th.
saltygary
4/13/2010-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
I am satisfied with our 2009 MVP staying on this year. There are other areas I would rather have the team focused on.
tkfj
4/13/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Was just watching SportsCenter and the top plays came on. The number 3 top play was a Brandon Inge diving catch on Guillen. The anchors proceeded to mock MF and his “I like Inge” quip, with terrible MF accent and all. I laughed for a good minute.
trs86
4/13/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
At least we did not get this ignorance on our team: “You see guys like Dye without a job. Guy with [27 home runs and 81 RBIs] and can’t get a job. Pretty much sums it up right there, no? You’ve got some guys who miss a year who can come back and get $5, $6 million, and a guy like Jermaine Dye can’t get a job. A guy like Gary Sheffield, a first-ballot Hall of Famer, can’t get a job. We both know what it is. You’ll get it right. You’ll figure it out. I’m not gonna say it because then I’ll be in [trouble].”
Gritty McHudson Ladies and Gents.
trs86
4/13/2010-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Seriously, has he not noticed a general trend of guys who can’t play a lick of defense are not getting signed? Perhaps he could notice that one of the reasons he does not get signed is because his pride will not allow him to take a 1 year deal until that’s the only options. Perhaps he would also note his sliding defensive numbers.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/13/2010-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Trade Castillo for him?
trs86
4/13/2010-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Not now. LOL. At least Castillo keeps his mouth shut.