At this point things seem bleak at the MLB level. It’s early and you guys know I am the type to remain optimistic until the last shoe drops but man I can smell the dog crap on the bottom of the shoe already.  After reading the comments here and other places looking for how the Mets can get out of this mess it became clear to me, for the most part they can’t. However, if you do want some positives from your normally overly optimistic author here at TRDM I can do that too. I don’t want to hear how the solution I am going to give is giving up on the season and I will explain why that’s not the case in a moment.  My easy fix may not lead to wins this year, however I believe it will help to bring excitement back to the Mets and an over-all hope for the future.
- Fire Jerry. Yeah that one everyone knows but we have to turn a new page. I am willing to give Omar one more chance and my reasoning is simple. I believe that he has learned a lot of his lessons as is evident by not wasting tons of money on mediocre players last season as well as what seems like a new commitment to minor league development. For the first time in years there is excitement in our farm system.
- Fire Hojo. Look I liked Hojo as a Met and always picked the #20 as an athlete (Mostly because of Bryant Stith at UVA but I digress.) The Mets offense is not living up to its potential and someone has to take blame for it besides just Jerry.
- Fire Warthen. Do I really need to explain this? It may not be his fault our SP suck but he sure the hell is not helping anything. They need a guy that the pitchers have heard of and will respect.
- Call up Ike. I know Ike may not be ready but I am not sure he gets any more ready in AAA nor do I think that he will be worse than Jacobs or Tatis. Ike has been trained to be a professional by his father and is the heir to 1B regardless of what Murphy or anyone else does. Bringing up a young slugger like Davis could help revitalize the fanbase.
- Call up Tejada for 2B/SS. Let him give Reyes days off as well as phase Castillo out. Yes Castillo will put up better stats than Tejada this year but will his contributions after factoring in defense make a difference on the overall out-come of the season?
- Call up Fmart for CF. Problem here is that suddenly the Mets don’t feel he can play CF. If that’s true then might as well trade him because I think Frenchy is too good of a fit for a team in desperate need of chemistry. I say bring up Fmart and see if his CF abilities can be rediscovered.
- Call up Gee for #5. The kid was looked at as a potential #5 last year and has shown promise again this year. It appears his arm troubles are behind him. He’s known as a thinking pitcher so that would give us 3 pitchers with a brain in the rotation.
- Look to trade Reyes and even Beltran when he returns. I know I am going to get raked for this one but it just does not look like the current Mets team will be good enough. We are locked in on salary for the most part and don’t have really any open areas in the lineup to fix this mess. Beltran obviously would be difficult to trade due to his contract and NTC but with Fmart, Newie, etc I think we could survive if the return or the FA acquisition was sufficient.  Reyes would be the hardest for me to trade. I love Reyes and think he is one of the most exciting players in baseball, however he has not performed in September when we needed him the most and his contract is nearing an end. Tejada could most likely step in and give replacement level results which for a SS is not much anyway.  Could the trading of these two free up enough cash or net enough prospects to gain 2 quality SP? If not then forget #8.
- Stop messing around and retire some damn all-time greats #’s. At least remind us of when things were good.
- Stop pressing and have fun again. This team over the last few years whether their fault or not has sucked the life right out of the fanbase. It’s hard to win with no home field advantage. Perhaps after making some of these moves you come out and say that you screwed up and are moving in a different direction and need the fans behind you…
Look I know that many or most of these things will not happen. I also these steps appear to contradict the title of the post. However, as a frustrated optimist I started writing this as a 3 step process and just could not stop typing. LGM???? Please?
137 comments
rustyjr
4/14/2010-8:54am at 8:54 am (UTC -4)
Trade Reyes and beltran !! Sirni believe you have gone one toke over tge line – sweet Jesus !
trs86
4/14/2010-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
Why do you think I hid that one as #8? LOL. Last time I mentioned trading Beltran it was our most popular post of all-time. Don’t want that fiasco again.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
Agree with EVERY idea except trading Reyes. He is too young and has too little value at this moment.
The minute Beltran shows health and can bring prospects, trade him.
TRS—are you starting to get an inkling of what the point was of that piece of mine worrying about the awful pitching during the last week of spring training? I can explain it again if you like….
Starters: 36.2 IP, 26 ER.
rustyjr
4/14/2010-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
Remember Carlos still has a full no trade clause
trs86
4/14/2010-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
Yeah I mentioned that.
As for Reyes, he is very young I agree. But we also only have him at this point one more year and his contract gets more expensive.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
I am not concerned about our overall SP right now. I think that Johan, Niese and Pelfery will be fine and I have hope for Ollie. Maine has to go. I still don’t think ST has any value in determining this and needed to see what happen when the lights came on. As I said in the other thread, take Maine out and the SP is about league average.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
Take Ollie and Maine out, and we have a starter who has been great and hopefully can still be after another surgery, and we have Pelf and Niese, who I have always had high hopes for, and who need to step it up every time out.
Niese, with his curve, and Pelf, with his new splitter, are truly the crux of all hopes for this year.
Ollie and Maine topping out at an occasional 90-91 are useless, and poor number 5s.
We need Johan to be Johan, and Pelf and Niese to win 12–14 each at least to avoid utter disaster.
Also, I have one item to add to the above list—send Mejia down NOW to start throwing 6-7-8 innings every 5 days.
What the hell is the use of having him throw an inning like last night’s? We need starters, and we need them even worse than Grave and Oleo and Dark and others predicted.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
Agree on Mejia. Not sure if you have to send him down to do it though. But NJ will come in and start that debate again so I will just agree.
As for Ollie, his career average FB is only 91 and was only 90.5 in his best year here 2007. He just has to get his mechanics fixed but I think he will be fine for a 4/5.
Mr North Jersey
4/14/2010-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
njstuckintx
4/14/2010-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
Good read, TRS. Like the suggestions. I won’t go through every one, but cleaning house (staff and manager) should happen.
Leave Tejada down. We’re stuck with Cora, so let him get his reps in the Minors.
Put Mejia down. Stretch him out now! There is nothing that Parnell or Misch couldn’t do at a comparable level that he can’t do.
Ike, why the hell not?
#11, Turn the USS Maine into an atrificial reef. At least he’d be some good then. Or even slap him in the bull pen. Anything than the starting rotation at this point.
As for the Beltran/Reyes comment… Whew, that is a big statement. I’m sure that Minaya is good at flipping a star for his talent. I’m not sure how he’ll be doing the opposite. I’d move Beltran if possible. He still has value, is still very good, but injury and such, I’m sure he’ll be trending down and shortly. Would he wave his no trade? I’m sure for the right $ he would. With Kirk, FMart and such in the wings, and Frenchy being Frenchy at the moment, Beltran is more expendable than Reyes is. Unless we’re ready to see Tejada thrown to the wolves, which I’m not ready to see, then I can’t see moving Reyes.
If the Mets started putting some kids out there who may develop into something wonderful vs. playing vets and retreads that we know what we are getting and most likely will not live up to the glory of past days, that would excite the fan base. Knowing Jacobs or Cat or even Cora for that matter are coming to bat, it can be awfully deflating.
And #9, while not helping the product, would definitely help the fan base.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
Thanks NJ. I guess my point with Reyes was that we have not gotten it done with him and his contract is in doubt. Can’t sign him to an extension now and if things continue to go south we are in danger of him just walking after next year.
njstuckintx
4/14/2010-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
If we think Tejada can be “the guy” or another prospect can be had and we fill the SS position with something better than Cora, then yeah, I can see trading Reyes. While not truly comparable, to get Beckett, the Botox, err, Bosox gave up Hanley. If we get it out of our minds that we need certain production from certain positions and can go with we have 8 starters and they provide really good production, then why not. Statistical Meat Bags!
That said, Reyes and Wright and Murphy and Maine and now Frenchy for me are fan favs. It’s tough to admit that they can do wrong. Or that they can be traded. They take a place in our collective hearts and when something is said to slight them, “OH NO! Theres goes the neighborhood!”. I don’t want Reyes traded. But taking emotion out of the equation, if -1 x Reyes = +2 x Future stars, I’d have to say it would be the smart or right thing to do.
For discussion sake, would you do Reyes for Gonzi?
trs86
4/14/2010-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
That one is a no brainer but SD would not do that. Makes no sense for them unless Reyes is going to sign a 10 year extension at 1M a year. LOL.
I could see the Red Sox making a VERY strong push for Reyes.
njstuckintx
4/14/2010-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
Agreed it is a no brainer. Just making a point that if the return for Reyes is right, you do it.
That said, Reyes, catch fire and stop our debating of you leaving and let’s start bailing the boat to get it back to floating!
udontmesswthejohan
4/14/2010-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
I won’t ever be able to advocate trading Reyes. We’ve spent the last calendar year waiting to get him back in the hopes that he would solve some or all of our issues, and now you want to trade him after 3 games. I get the drift of your suggestions here and agree with most of them, but Reyes is part of the solution and not the problem. Plus I think it’s a low blow to bring up his post season stats some 4 years after the fact. I could make the same argument about Wright.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
September, not postseason. Check out his September stats.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
.248 .307 .378 .685 for his career.
.205 .279 .333 .612 2007
.243 .314 .402 .715 2008
That’s a big decline.
Again, I love Reyes but we have to get something for him because right now I see no way he re-signs with the Mets. Things could obviously change but right now he has an option for next year at 11M.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
Wow, great point. I did not even consider the issue of him leaving as a FA.
And I did not think I could feel any worse about the Mets right now.
udontmesswthejohan
4/14/2010-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
“right now I see no way he re-signs with the Mets”
I’m not sure this is a fair sentiment. He’s never shown any inclination that he doesn’t want to be here for a long time.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
Udon’t that’s my opinion, that’s the reason I said “I see….”.
udontmesswthejohan
4/14/2010-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
And what happened in both of those years? To me, this just solidifies the argument that he is the most important player on the team. I love DW, but he hasn’t been able to carry this team alone either.
I won’t accept the fact that these two guys won’t or shouldn’t be playing together for a long time to come.
I agree there is something wrong, but build around these two.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
What happen in those years is we collapsed. Partly because of bad management, bad clutch hitting and terrible relief pitching. However, those September numbers are not an aberration but a trend. Just because Reyes is a great talent and a fan favorite does not mean that he can’t be traded if the return is worth it.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
There is something rotten at the core of this team.
It has been there since 2007 and appears to be metastasizing, not getting cured.
Maybe the folks who say Wright and Reyes and Beltran have no heart and will never win are right.
I know I have been all over the starters, but what has everyone done with RISP this year? Is the number even fit for print on a family website?
Even Bay seems infected.
Francoeur, ridiculous as it may sound, might be the guy with the most heart, hustle, and desire of the starting 8.
ceetar
4/14/2010-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
The idea that Wright Reyes and Beltran have no heart is just silly. They’re not that good of actors.
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
Bay is infected with being a streaky player.
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
Oh come on. What happened to:
1. Give our guys a chance.
2. The available SPers are crap.
3. We have a good team.
4. Omar can make mid-season trades to improve the team.
The team has only played 7 games.
I’d like to add:
11. Fire the Fans.
I hope the Mets have more guts than fans that are already giving up on the season.
There’s no doubt the team has issues, but it’s only April f’in 14th.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
The pitchers have been atrocious since the first week of March.
The starters have allowed 26 R in 36 IP.
After the last three years—when I TOTALLY stayed on the Optimist Float—this start has me officially woken up.
Jerry and Warthen are utterly incapable of motivating or improving this group, let alone getting the most from them.
Why the hell can no one get a hit with anyone on base when the game is competitive?
They will very likely come home from this trip with 3 or 4 wins on the season and already be 6 or 7 behind the Phils.
You are in serious, deep, and VERY impressive denial my friend, if you have indeed been watching this team play the last week.
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
Kingman, the whole world knew the rotation was a huge question mark, why would you expect them to be gang busters from the start. That’s why some of us wanted to add at least mediocre pitchers to the rotation. You and others argued that those pitchers were too crappy and we needed to give our guys another shot.
For better or worse, we signed off on this team. And now we’re acting like we were tricked or something. We got what we wanted.
We should be supporting the team, not acting like the season is lost.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
I for one am not saying the season is lost. I was one of those that said give these guys a shot. Now you have given Maine 2 shots and so far he looks like he IS shot and need to be taken out behind the barn and shot. Still plenty of time to fix that problem but can’t pretend it’s not there.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Fair enough to a degree.
But I felt VERY strongly that there was a large enough sample to show that the manager and at least Warthen and Shines were just plain awful, and the more time goes by, the more clear this becomes.
Many times we incorrectly think we know more than pros who have been in MLB for years, but batting Mike Jacobs cleanup is a joke; batting him ahead of Francoeur is a joke. Batting a fast guy with extra base hit potential like Pagan 8th is a joke. What have we watched with Parnell, Green, Maine, Ollie—they have all gotten much worse under Warthen. And why can’t anyone ever seem to be able to get a hit with RISP?
In addition Case, I DID NOT sign off on a team which would clearly be showing signs of lackadaisical and “unprepared” play before the end of week one!
As I have always said, all I ask is for maximum effort. I sincerely believe that that is all the players “owe” us as fans.
They largely seem to have now mailed in the last two games.
Perhaps my disgust with the pitching is clouding the clarity of my responses, but Manuel saying they are not prepared for game 7 Sunday–then last night suggesting that the players WERE given the proper prep for Livan but either did not bother listening and/or did not execute–is revolting to me.
There is rot in the core of this team and it is spreading. Manuel, Warthen, and Shines must go now, in order to stop this rot.
Get a new guy in here, rush some of the Junior Core, get Matthews off this damn team, get Jacobs off this damn team—they are castoffs!
Sorry buddy, but while I agreed with not overpaying for crap pitchers, I most certainly did not agree with keeping this terrible manager and coaching staff, which quite clearly are continuing to preside over sloppy ball and players playing FAR below their abilities and expectations.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
I think it’s too easy to say these guys are not trying, mailing it in or playing lackadaisical. That’s really impossible to judge. Hate that you feel that way. What I see is what I have since 2007 a team that puts too much pressure on itself and tries too hard.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
TRS I hate to feel this way too.
Seriously, we put SO much mental energy and time into this team, and after the sloppy crap baseball played all of last year, watching Jerry–two days in a row now–talk about being unprepared and then yesterday trying to blame it on the players–has me on the edge.
Regardless of what is true, there is something wrong.
Very wrong.
I can stomach poor play, but not unpreparedness.
What happened Sunday?
Did no one work on a game plan for hitting Livan?
Did Johan just think the Nats would lay their bats down?
Or did Jerry and the coaching staff work hard on a gameplan to hit Livan, and Warthen work hard on a gameplan for Johan to attack the Nats and everyone ignored them?
Clearly one of these things happened, and to me personally, it is just more than I can take.
I would rather watch Teufel or Backman manage a team of not-yet-ready youngsters who will clearly listen to the coaching staff and be prepared.
dirtysanchez
4/14/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Im not ready to write off the season but I do agree it would appear anyway that teams we are facing look way more prepared against our starting pitchers than we look against theirs.
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
Can’t argue with wanting new coaches, I wanted Jaramillo and Duncan.
Still, Maine’s crappy start yesterday and Santana’s the day before are more the result of the pitchers than any influence any coach may have had.
trs86
4/14/2010-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
Not sure on Maine. His mechanics are just a plain mess too.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
I guess it is a chicken and egg thing Case which we could go on about forever, but perhaps a better pitching coach could help Maine be effective even though he has clearly lost 4-5 mph.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
Case I said in the post I have not given up on this season but even you have to agree things don’t currently look great and some things have to change. The only drastic thing I would see in my top 10 is obviously #8 which is also the least likely to happen. I can take that out and make it 9 if you think he takes the panic off.
“It’s early and you guys know I am the type to remain optimistic until the last shoe drops but man I can smell the dog crap on the bottom of the shoe already. “
metsgirl31
4/14/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
I agree it is too early to give up on the season…no doubt there are issues but there is time to get it turned around.
I agree with the suggestions above except I’m on the fence about the trading Reyes idea. I guess it depends on what we get for him. I would still like to see them keep Reyes and Wright for the future. Beltran should go if they can get something for him and providing, of course, he wants to go.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
Yeah Metsgirl, I am not running Reyes out of town either. The return would have to be there but like I said I just get this feeling that Reyes may not be here in 2012 regardless.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/14/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
Is it because the Mets don’t want him or he would sign elsewhere?
trs86
4/14/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Maybe either. A lot depends on this year and how things go. If we fail to contend and the RSox offer him a huge deal would he stay?
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
As grave has pointed out before, trading star players almost never works out for the team trading the star.
If we don’t lock up Reyes to an extension, we should just offer arbitration and get draft picks.
Though, don’t hold your breath for developing another talent of Jose’s caliber any time soon.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
You are most likely right. I would hope for the exception there. I am not sure I am ok at all though with just getting draft picks for him. Hard to imagine how much he would bring in arbitration too. He would be coming off an 11M season.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Actually, there are more examples of trading stars which worked out, from Omar’s Colon deal to the Marlins trading Beckett.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
That one worked out for both teams. I think Grave cut off his list early because the results were hard to measure right now.
Just as stats show that many times a managerial change does not work that does not mean that it has to be that way.
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Unless grave’s article was incorrect, those are the exception.
Still, even if it did work. We wouldn’t see any impact from any prospects for a few years.
Teams that trade their stars are in rebuilding mode.
We’d still have Johan, Wright, K-Rod, Bay, Beltran and Ollie. Not exactly a rebuild team.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
Love Grave, and that was an amazing piece, but there are a lot more of those trades which did work out.
My brother pointed it out to me, I looked into it, and there are plenty.
I DO NOT want to trade Reyes or Wright. But pretty soon I would advocate trading pretty much anyone else.
Bring up FMart now to see if he is ready to play every day.
trs86
4/14/2010-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
That’s not always true Case. Again right now we have Reyes for 2010 and 2011. It just depends on what you think will happen in between now and then and what will happen after that.
GravediggerHebner
4/14/2010-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Case, both you and Kingman are right. Allow me to elaborate.
It was a lot of work to gather all the information for and then write that piece. I literally worked for over 24 hours on that (not in a row).
Because it was so much work and so much information, I broke it down into 5 year periods. 1990-1994, 1995-1999 and 2000-2004. I did not omit anything from those periods so what I shared with you was in fact an accurate representation that trading stars for prospects, the vast majority of the time during those years, did not work out for the team trading the star. There is really no disputing that.
I chose not to analyze the next 5 year period, 2005-2009 because I did not think it was fair to include trades for prospects that in some cases were still in the minor leagues.
But, during this period of time, trades such as Beckett/Hanley and others have occurred and a larger percentage of these trades have worked out recently than they did in the previous 15 year period.
So statistically, we have a 20 year period during 75% of which these trades worked out almost universally horribly, and then the most recent 25% of that 20 year period where more have worked out than did before.
I certainly did not mislead or mistate anything that I wrote at that time. I spelled out very specifically that I wasn’t going to cover 2004-2009 in the piece precisely because I felt it was too soon to analyze.
So yes, sometimes they work, recently more often than previously, but the percentage of failure in the last 20 years is still much greater than the percentage of success.
Just like mid-season firing a manager can wind up with Jim Tracy leading a team to the playoffs, yes it can happen. But more often than not, that doesn’t happen. So what you’re talking about is something that can work yes, whether it be a star/prospect trade or a mid-season manager firing. But the odds are not in your favor if you choose to do those things, and that was and remains my only point.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Grave it was an AMAZING piece, and I feel bad about seeming to criticize it, which I really wasn’t.
Overall, I totally agree with your thesis.
I was just surprised to find a few more that did work out, that is all I was saying.
I certainly did not mean to criticize or belittle your incredible effort on that piece, which is surely more effort than I put into my infrequent egotistical ramblings.
GravediggerHebner
4/14/2010-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think you criticized my piece really. I just think when you say words to the effect of “my brother told me and I looked into it and plenty worked out” that what you must be referring to is 2005-2009, and so I wanted to make very clear that I didn’t cover that period and why, and that I pointed that out at the time.
If you are in fact referring to things that happened from 1990-2004 I ask that you tell me about those trades so that I may learn about what I missed. I’m not perfect and I certainly could’ve missed something, if so I’d like to know it can only make me a wiser person/fan.
That’s all. We’re good man.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/14/2010-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
I’m okay with trading Beltran as much as I like what he can bring to the table. But who would trade for him? And the timing is not right at this time. There are lots of negatives working against the Mets if Beltran was traded that it might not be worth trading him.
1. His contract value. Only teams that can afford his contract is Yankees and BoSox. I think BoSox could be tempted to trade for him, but are the Mets going to get a fair value in return? Because
2. He’s just coming off the knee surgery and his speed/defense could diminish for a 32/33 year old CF. I’m sure other teams would be worried about his health.
3. A clause in his contract that prevents the Mets to offer him arbitration after his contract is up. So no 1st round pick in return once he hits the FA.
4. His NTC. I’m sure he’s more than willing to leave the Mets for a competing team, but you never know.
I think once Beltran shows that he can get back to his pre-knee injury form, his value might go up, but that kinda beats the purpose here.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, never said that would be easy. At this point it would be more like a salary dump BUT that being said 20M is a lot of salary to free up. Not sure anyone would take the entire thing. Also as for the NTC if it’s to a contender why would Beltran decline?
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/14/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think it’s impossible to trade him, but I just think it will be near impossible to trade him now (or when he comes back). And if the Mets wait till July or offseason to trade him, it defeats the purpose of trying to turn this season around.
trs86
4/14/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
Not sure my overall goal was to turn just this season around.
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
Look, if it were June or July, then I would understand the concern. But the fact is that teams get hot and cold many times in a season. Just like the team has started cold, they can get hot, too.
Yes, MOP has been stinky. But, Pelf and Ollie have started once and Maine twice. If MOP had pitched lights out in the same time span, would we be discussing how they will be competing for the Cy Young? No. So why are we now discussing the pitching like they should be “shot behind the barn”?
trs86
4/14/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Not “They” Case, just Maine. Obviously I don’t want him shot, LOL. But he needs to head to the minors or DL and figure things out. He’s a mess mentally and physically.
As for concern and panic those differences have been explained to me many times usually from the opposite side. I am very concerned about the team right now but that does not mean I think things are hopeless or the season is shot. If you are not concerned or worried then you have a stomach of steel.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/14/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
I would agree with you if this was any other team. But given last years debacle and what we all saw in MOP last season, I think we’ve seen enough of MOP to be worried. I realize that MOP could turn around and go back to ’07-’08 forms. But MOP are two years removed from their “prime” and they’ve had a lot of history in between. Surgeries and yips are couple things that I can think of.
I’m less worried with P and more inclined to say that P can come back to his ’08 form.
With M, he’s 3 years removed since his best season. Since then, he has had more than enough DL stints and looking at his velocity and command of his pitches, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him back on DL. And that’s why some of us are worried that we will never see the ’07 Maine, but he is what he is now.
With O, again, he’s 3 years removed since his best season. In ’08 we saw flashes of brilliance, but we also saw how bad he can be in ’09 season. I think he has the least desire and drive out of the MOP. And that’s what worries me. I know he’s in good shape and seems to have gotten his stuff together, but I also think he can break down just as easily.
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
After 7 games of 162 game season, no I’m not concerned.
If Pelf and Ollie’s next two starts are bad, are you taking them out back, too?
I do eat steel cut oats, try some, it’ll make you very gritty.
trs86
4/14/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Case how you can not be concerned is beyond me. Again, big difference in concern and panic. It’s ok to be concerned after 7 games, not very good idea to panic.
trs86
4/14/2010-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
Hey if you can stand to read it MC actually did a decent job here:
“keep getting the same thing: people telling me ‘it’s just six games, it’s just seven games,’ etc., and this is true… i get it… but, to me, this is just seven additional games added on to what has been a long two to three seasons… so, while it’s just seven games in 2010, it’s been like 400 games since the middle of 2007, and i think it is that which is grinding me down… in my mind, yes, i know it’s a long season and anything can happen… i do genuinely believe that if the Mets can just put together a small winning streak, and start believing in themselves, with their pitching staff and the key talent in the lineup they can be exciting and successful and we can all have a fun season… but, they’re pressing right now… and so are we… and the media is pressing everyone for answers… and the pressure is high, very, very intense… and so there is no room for error… a new manager would only end up inheriting the same players and a different set of pressures… and so, emotionally, i can’t help and react and be dejected, because, despite it being just seven games, and though i can say out loud that it’s early and i know things can turn around, i have been conditioned over the last few seasons to expect the worst… and i hate that… i really do… and, judging by the attendance last weekend, i am not alone…”
njstuckintx
4/14/2010-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
He must have a Speach to Text function or something, cause if this is his writing, uff da… my brain hurts.
tkfj
4/14/2010-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
11. Fire Omar. If you are going to clean house, get rid of the crap alll the way. It’s starting to stink in here.
Game 170 of the 09 season today…..
trs86
4/14/2010-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
I addressed Omar in step 1. I think that considering our minors finally has excitement and the fact he did not go out and sign Pineiro or Marquis to 3 year deals gives me hope for Omar.
tkfj
4/14/2010-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
While I semi-agree with you. I think Omar needs to be the sacrificial lamb, the attitude around the team is a complete 360 from 05-06 when Omar was GM and working magic. It may not be completely his fault, but I feel it may be neccessary. Just my opinion.
tkfj
4/14/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
180.
trs86
4/14/2010-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
But in my opinion bringing up the youth that he developed can return that magic.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/14/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
I also think $$ issue is there with Omar. It’s Omar’s first season with his new contract. Wilpons would have to pay him 2 more years after this season. Not that Wilpons are cheap, but it doesn’t make sense to fire him now.
trs86
4/14/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
I just don’t think other than the media issues he has done that bad of a job. Perhaps with manager issues…
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/14/2010-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
I agree.
njstuckintx
4/14/2010-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
Maybe Reyes just needs a haircut.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/14/2010-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
LOL
fongy2
4/14/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Having read the above 30+ posts, all I’ll say is…Welcome to
the dark side of reality!
There is no doubt this team has suffered from terrible luck the
past year+, however bad luck is no excuse for the F.O. at this
point.
I’m not one for “change for change sake”….BUT this team has needed a serious shake-up for some time.
Really replacing Delgado with Bay AND Putz with Escobar…THEN
praying for good health and growth wasn’t a recipe for success.
Firing Jerry at this point and bringing in one of his coaches or
one of the minor league Mgrs who was around all spring wont
change much at this point. The change must come from further up
thus sending the message no one’s safe and the uninspired,sloppy
approach will not be tolerated.
Bringing up an Ike Davis a week and a half into the season would
only send the message that he’s a savior….Which he’s not.
The only other thing I could see which might have some effect
would be to simply move Maine AND Ollie to the Pen and bring
up two starters from Buffalo. See if Maine and Ollie can work out there problems in the Pen while seeing if the likes of Gee
and Misch could at least keep us in games and provide some innings in a further effort to hide the deficientcy that is the pen.
trs86
4/14/2010-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
I think replacing Delgado with Bay was a huge step. I would not look at Escobar as Putz’s replacement. I also don’t think you have to move Perez yet. I think he showed hope last time and at various points in the spring. As for Davis, again it’s how you approach it. Right now bringing him up he’s not seen as the savior, just a replacement for Jacobs and Tatis. You can even say that your plan is to send him down when Murphy returns. If he lights it up then you deal with it then.
prismo
4/14/2010-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
You want to trade Reyes before firing Omar!?!?!!?!?!?!!?
FIRE OMAR!!!
fongy2
4/14/2010-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Agreed!…Trading Reyes is not an option.
Clue one should be how bad we are when he’s either slumping or hurt.
trs86
4/14/2010-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
Yup, very bad. Only problem is that he slumps every September when we need him the most.
Again, Reyes is here from now until 2011 right now that’s all we got.
prismo
4/14/2010-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
If the Mets are in a position in September for Reyes to screw it up, I’ll be a happy Mets fan.
whataputz
4/14/2010-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, hopefully David Wrights 8-0 solo shots can put us in that position.
trs86
4/14/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
I don’t understand why any time someone brings up Reyes difficulties that someone has to say something about Wright. Like these guys are in some eternal struggle with each other for fans respect. LOL.
udontmesswthejohan
4/14/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Because I think that most fans, as much as we love and respect Wright, realize that Reyes is really the straw that stirs thsi drink and its unfair to advocate trading him without making any mention of DW.
I’ve said many times in the past, and will continue to do so many times int he future, that both of them are untouchable. You keep bringing up that Reyes’ contract is up at the end of 2011 (two friggin seasons from now) as some sort of reason to consider trading him when everyone has a contract that will at some point be coming to an end. The 2011 contract is a weak argument.
trs86
4/14/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
They have nothing to do with each other in this situation. Reyes has not been good in September and has an expiring contract after next year. Just because of those two statements does not mean you need to bring up Wright or Johan or Krod or Jerry to make Jose look better. Reyes does not need any help in looking good nor does Wright.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
If only we had Mark Reynolds at 3rd base, we’d be 7-0!!
fongy2
4/14/2010-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
His best baseball is likely i/f/o
him! We’ll trade him and he’ll go on to win MVPs and Championships somewhere else.
This team has screwed around with this kid since almost the first day. Rushing him to the majors,changing positions,changing
his running style,never finding a
veteran leader and professional to team with @2B,misdiagnosing his injuries,not paying enough attention to his rehab and on and on.
Trading him would simply be an All-Time bad move.
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
damn, when you put it that way, now I’m concerned they will trade Reyes
whataputz
4/14/2010-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
God I hope not. SS is a hard position to fill. I think they need to bring back both Beltran and Reyes. I know they haven’t won us a ws yet, but they are two guys that play positions that are really hard to fill, and both have speed, defense, and power. It’s so puzzling! We have so many talented players, so many of them, and yet we don’t win. Wright, reyes, beltran have been here for a long time, and they are all incredibly talented, and yet nothing. We need to go yankee style and sign two big pitchers next offseason.
stickguy
4/14/2010-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Right now, I agree they should try to extend reyes. But not beltran.
I lean toward letting him go, at most offering arbitration to get the picks.
He will be what, 34 by the time the 2012 season starts (that’s when the new contract would kick in, right?) with a history of chronic knee problems.
the odds of him staying close to what he was, or even not declining severly, are low. so IOW, very unlikely he comes close to earning the money on that deal.
trs86
4/14/2010-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Don’t you think it’s a dangerous time to extend Reyes? Problem is I still think if he reaches FA he’s gone. I hate to feel that way.
darknova306
4/14/2010-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
FIRE OMAR!!
oh…. and FIRE JERRY!!
darknova306
4/14/2010-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
Good read, TRS. I think we’re all in agreement about cleaning house. Jerry, at the very least, has to go. Warthen and HoJo I would be happy to see go, too.
I’m totally against trading Reyes, as I don’t see us getting back nearly fair value for him. Beltran… if he could prove healthy and get his trade value back up, maybe.
Mejia absolutely should never been up in the first place, and now there is even less reason for him to stay. Why waste his talent without at least giving him the chance as a starter, especially when we desperately need all the starting pitching talent we can get.
As for bringing up the youth, I’m softening on Ike and F-Mart coming up. I think they could benefit from a full, healthy (for F-Mart), season in AAA, but since we’ve got little going on with respect to playoff chances at the MLB level, they could learn a lot with the big club with little pressure. Plus, the fans would have something to cheer about with those guys. Some of the biggest cheers on opening day were for the new guys, especially from our minor league system (Mejia and Tejada), so it could cut down on the booing.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
And again, we can go on and on, but the Ledger’s Costa said, and reiterated, that Francoeur said the team was “Going through the motions” Sunday.
Case and TRS—THIS is what I mean.
It is absolutely unacceptable after the last 3 years, and especially after last year.
“Going through the motions” at the end of WEEK ONE??
How can anyone support this utter horsesh**??
If it is true, fire Omar, Jerry and his band of jokers, and trade everyone but Francoeur, Reyes, and Wright, and bring up the Junior Core.
trs86
4/14/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
I think players need an excuse for their play but not sure that his comments are true.
darknova306
4/14/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
I think this team broke Kingman.
Jerry hasn’t prepared them properly, they’re going through the motions (against a lousy Nats team)… this has disaster written all over it. If the players don’t care, why should we?
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
I’m broke, I admit it.
I at least expected all-out effort and crisp play.
I can deal with losing; I grew up watching the Mets and Nets in the late 70s and early 80s!
Cannot deal with lack of effort and going through the motions, and a manager who it is becoming nearly impossible to describe without a string of vile profanity.
fongy2
4/14/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Friggin’ nattering nabob of negativity!
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
LOL!!!!
fongy2
4/14/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
I see Milton Bradley’s made himself a
fan-fav in Seattle.
Also, I haven’t forgot you on the potential Mets-Phils tix for later in the season. My Bride is pissed at me right now
b/c I turned down 4 behind the plate box seats for Saturday’s Phils-Fish gm.
She wanted to go, no Mets I’m not driving
2+hrs each way on a Saturday night!
I would have considered it if Halladay was
Pitching BUT to sit through Jaime Moyer…
Not much fun there for me.
I am going to see the kid Strasburg pitch
Friday across the river,I’ll provide a
report over the weekend.
Gotta run, see ya’ll!
It ain’t easy but remember…….
Lets Go Mets!!!
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Fong I was thinking about that the other day….I will check out the schedule and we will be in touch…you can always email me through the site…can’t wait!
stickguy
4/14/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
I’m free and local too!
dirtysanchez
4/14/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
The problem is that there is no silver bullet to fixing this team. Thats the frustrating part. Yea sure, you can fire omar and jerry but will that actually improve the product on the field. Now there is a new dynamic of getting used to the new managers way of managing and if the players respond to it. Im totally with you that this is unacceptable for the amount of talent that we have but I truly believe there is no silver bullet to fix this team
fongy2
4/14/2010-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
Agreed Dirty BUT I think part of the problem is simply accepting this group is what they are.
Not good enough to win AND the likes of Omar and Jerry ain’t the ones to fix it for down the road
be it the 2nd half or next season or the one after
that. Bottom line is something needed and needs to
be done and it should start from the top.
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Let’s be realistic. No one is getting traded.
Most of the team is not the same that went through 07 and 08. Bay, Barajas, Francouer, and whoever our 1B are new. Cora is new. Blanco is new. Even GMJ and Jacobs are new.
Most of the pen is new. Niese is new.
So if you believe there is something wrong with this team since 07 and 08, then the blame lies on Santana, MOP, Wright, Reyes and Castillo.
Of course, you could also blame Omar, but since the Junior Core is close to joining the Mets, maybe not.
Of course, there’s Jerry to blame. We’ll see if firing him will make a difference.
I wouldn’t blame the fans, since most professionals don’t pay much mind to the fans.
ceetar
4/14/2010-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
and that makes the problem hard to believe is so big. Perez hasn’t been great before last year, but certainly acceptable. Maine has been so injury spottled it’s hard to even figure it out. Maybe he just needs to get his reps in, and maybe that should be in the minors. who knows.
Pelfrey will likely be fine. But you weren’t going to jettison a young pitcher like that anyway. I like what I’ve seen from him so far.
whataputz
4/14/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
Can we please flop Maine and Nieve’s roles. Nieve is younger, throws much harder, actually had success until Jerry went with his “He’s succeeding, so I’m going to make him pitch until his arm falls off” technique. Both these guys were highly touted guys, and very similar, except Neive still has an arm, and John Maine is clearly in need of some minor league starts.
njstuckintx
4/14/2010-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
I could purchase that for a dollar, robocop style.
dirtysanchez
4/14/2010-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
I believe nieve should be the replacement for anybody who is injured or underperforming. This is a lesson of patience because had figgy stuck around, he most likely would have been up here for a spot start at least..possibly more because its obvious maine is not ready.
Mr North Jersey
4/14/2010-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
***PATIENCE***
You are on point with that.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/14/2010-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
They both loaded the bases with 2,000 walks last night. There’s a similarity.
whataputz
4/14/2010-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
yeah, but Neive has is on pace to pitch in like 150 game this season the way jerry is using him. Neive has looked good this season, whereas Maine is just godawful at the moment. He’s inaccurate, flat, and topping out at 90 as a fastball pitcher. At least Neive has velocity, and some success. Listen, Neive, Maine, your comparing a pile of feces to a pile of vomit, but i’d rather have the vomit right now.
Mr North Jersey
4/14/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
All I have to say is TRS is suggesting the Mets clean house after 7 games.
I have to agree with Case. What happened to
Give our guys a chance.
We have a good team.
We can make mid-season trades to improve the team.
7 games in and we get posts talking about trading Reyes and Beltran?
You want to say that Reyes numbers are bad in September so what he has given us overall isn’t enough to validate keeping him?
The starting pitching is what it is I remember when me and some others were screaming at Minaya for how he handled the starter situation. It is what it is Minaya decided to go with what we have.
Many said we can always make a mid season trade for a starter well it isn’t mid season yet so buckle down.
It’s 7 games. Is there cause for concern? Yes but it was there way back when Camp opened also.
It’s not like we didn’t know this could happen. This for many of us was our greatest fear.
It’s 7 games though it may be just a bit early for the fire everyone posts and bring up the farm.
Just saying.
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
this
Mr North Jersey
4/14/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
No “this”.
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
If they really were unprepared and going through the motions in the 7th game of the season Sunday, then there should be a massive housecleaning today.
Not being good enough is one thing; not being into it and not giving full effort at the end of the first week is absolutely outrageous, and should be criticized and booed.
And looked at as a disease which must be treated before the season dies.
Mr North Jersey
4/14/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Let’s just keep in mind these are grown men were talking about. The going through the motions talk is something that I hold the player equally if not more responsible for.
Any player that admits they are just going through the motions should be ashamed of themselves.
The unprepared line is something that Jerry said that as soon as he said most rational people knew it was a very poor and even stupid choice of words.
trs86
4/14/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
NJ I mentioned trading those 2 last season. Similar stance and results. Nothing to do with panicking about THIS season. Of course Beltran and Reyes have performed well enough to keep them. My question was ” Could the trading of these two free up enough cash or net enough prospects to gain 2 quality SP? If not then forget #8.”
metsfan4decades
4/14/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Clean house? I have no problem with that.
Trade Reyes? Uh….no. Not now. And no, I don’t care if it makes more sense down the road and we get less return for the investment at that time. It’s a chance I’m willing to take. Reyes is one of those players that hates to lose – actually pouts – when they’re losing. I’m not using that as an excuse but he seems to really lose something when things aren’t going well. Right this ship, he’ll be an important part of it.
I’m not opposed to trading Beltran. But right now? I don’t think we get anything in return and there is the no trade clause.
To me, they have to make changes and make them now. Not little ones either. If that includes replacing the manager – and GM – then so be it.
No matter how each fan feels, I think I can safely say for all, we have lost patience. We suffered through a collapse, a bad BP and a season full of injuries. There is no patience left.
fongy2
4/14/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Agreed…..Except it was actually TWO collapes, the
first being an all-time epic one.
koose
4/14/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Wow and I thought I was the poster child for negativity.
Let’s face it maine and ollie are not ready yet. Will they be ready anytime soon,who knows.But right now this team sucks. They can’t pitch. at least there starters can’t but more importantley they can’t hit.WTF is up with the decision makers on this team,Catelanano and jacobs are the most useless players on this team with a guy like Carter just wasting away in AAA the great Omar has these pieces of sh– in a major league line up getting playing time,are you kidding me. Release these guys now send a message to the players and the fans that someone in the front office is alive. Bring up Mish he can’t be worse than Maine is right now,I actually think Maine wants to be sent down. I know its only seven games but there has to be some sign of concern in the Mets front office and they need to show it.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/14/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Wow I did not know Longoria is only getting paid 950k this season. His salary is crazy.
08:$0.5M, 09:$0.55M, 10:$0.95M, 11:$2M, 12:$4.5M, 13:$6M, 14:$7.5M club option ($3M buyout), 15:$11M club option, 16:$11.5M club option
Who was his agent?
GravediggerHebner
4/14/2010-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Paul Cohen. He signed that contract the day he got called up to the major leagues for the first time. So in essence he got $17.5 million spread over 6 years the day he came up. He basically took that money as a hedge against a career ending injury (in my opinion). Most rookies are faced with being renewed by the team for a year or two, then a few years of arbitration hearings until free agency. He avoided all that.
Mr North Jersey
4/14/2010-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
Ted Berg’s post sums it up with the following,
“What’s most puzzling about the drumming is how much of it appears fueled by shock, as if anything happening in front of us is surprising. The 2010 Mets feature several excellent players who have not been good enough to carry too much dead weight in the lineup and on the pitching staff; a top-heavy roster poorly constructed and too frequently mismanaged.
This is a new thing?”
http://www.tedquarters.net/2010/04/14/the-drumming-of-restless-mets-fans/
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Ah, “THIS”!
udontmesswthejohan
4/14/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
ATTICA!!! ATTICA!!! ATTICA!!!
Kingman 26
4/14/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
AL PACINO!
Mr North Jersey
4/14/2010-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
Mr North Jersey
4/14/2010-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
LoL
oleosmirf
4/14/2010-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
im sorry but Reyes and Beltran are better than any player we could possibly get in return. Reyes and Beltran are not a problem.
If we had a 1B that gave us .270+ 20+ HR 80+ RBI and at least average defense our lineup would be perfectly fine.
The problem is and has been starting pitching but Omar would rather give Ollie and Maine one last chance than spend money on average players.
ceetar
4/14/2010-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
so yes, if Murphy hadn’t tripped, we’d be fine offensively.
Ollie is better than pretty much all the random pitchers that we had chances at. Maine could’ve been, and he didn’t pitch all that badly in ’09 considering. It was for depth that I wanted one of those mediocre guys.
oleosmirf
4/14/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
i disagree with Ollie. I think hes gonna be like what he was last start over the course of the season…
stickguy
4/14/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
wow. I couldn’t even find time to read all the comments. TRS certainly knows how to stir things up!
Actually though, you could probably defend any one of these items, but no way you see all (or even more than a couple) of them. Especially this early.
Me? For sure you dump Jerry and the coaches. And depending on who comes in to manage, they might appease the loyalists by keeping hojo (if he wants) as a base or bench guy. So 1-3 are fine. As is keeping Omar for the moment.
ANd something has to be done with maine. Option him, at minimum skip his next turn, something. If he can’t get his acto together, and if Gee keeps it up for a few more starts, then maine to the pen or something and Gee as the #5 sounds wonderful to me.
Beyond that? Beltran can’t go anywhere, since it will be the trade deadline at least before he proves himself healthy and productive. And Reyes? I am not against trolling him to see what bites, but it better be a big fish coming back. From the bosox, a solid SP (#2-3 ready right now) plus a stud prospect where they need help, and a spare SS to tide them over? Have to consider it. But I think it is more likely they keep him, try to extend LT, and hope he matures enough to not fold in September again.
I actually am OK with F Mart in CF, to see what the hell you got. Either he or Frenchy will be gone next year, although I would be fine with a 3 man OF rotation, giving every one plenty of work, and the older guys enough rest.
Frenchy, bay and F Mart could all play 5 games/week, and beltran 6. Boom, 7 games @ 3 spots. Plus great bats on the bench to PH. ANd of course, DH time.
Ike will be up. Not until that first contract milestone (20 games? EIther impacts arb or FA somehow, but he will be up later in the month). Should it matter to the Mets? Probably not, but teams do it anyway.
oleosmirf
4/14/2010-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
why would Bay not play everyday?
GravediggerHebner
4/14/2010-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
“The top 17 percent of players with at least 2 but less than 3 years of Major League service. These are known as “Super 2†players. To qualify as a Super 2, a player must have accumulated at least 86 days of service in the previous year. Historically, the cutoff point for Super 2 status is 2 years, 128 days of service, though the requirement has been as high as 2 years, 140 days in years past.”
My basic understanding of a Major League season is it’s “162 games in 183 days” so extrapolating that, to avoid Super 2 arbitration status with Davis the Mets would have to wait until May 15th (in the 2 year, 140 day scenario) or until May 27th (in the 2 year, 128 day scenario).
So if their motivation with Davis is to avoid Super 2, then we won’t see him until the second half of May at the earliest.
stickguy
4/14/2010-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
OH, forgot the other obvious point. Get Mejia back on the starter training program. Now.
whataputz
4/14/2010-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
It’s not complicated. You’re not going to win without pitching. Our line-up will get there once Reyes gets back to 100% and Beltran comes back in the year 2025 (we will be told every week he is just about ready). With Ollie Maine Pelf, you’re pretty much guaranteeing one terrible start a week, and 1 bad one. Undoubtedly one of those guys is going to get shelled. It’s hard to build momentum when you have no pitching. Plus it would be nice if Bay could start to hit.
trs86
4/14/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Guys you are getting too hung up on one part. Should have left it out I guess. I am not sold myself on trading Beltran and Reyes. Just saying they should look into what the return is.
” Could the trading of these two free up enough cash or net enough prospects to gain 2 quality SP? If not then forget #8.”
CaseStreet
4/14/2010-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
but what’s the need to trade Reyes or Beltran (and make a hole in our lineup) when Omar has an emergency fund for a mid-season acquisition or better SP free agents this winter?
Or was I on another site when that was the excuse for not signing mediocre pitchers?
Mr North Jersey
4/14/2010-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
I agree what’s the point to even bring up trading 2 players one of which has a no trade clause to begin with.
Trading Reyes now is pointless he is just starting to play everyday and the book is still out if his legs are all the way back or not. You are better off saying why not trade Wright instead and we know that has a snowball’s chance in hell of happening.