…. Kirk Nieuwenhuis. Yes while David Wright may be the unofficial Team Captain down on the farm another Baby Met quietly on the verge of possibly surpassing Fernando Martinez if Martinez continues to be injury prone (currently Martinez is day to day with a lower back strain) as the Mets #1 outfield prospect is the Mets 100th pick in the 3rd round of the 2008 MLB Draft Kirk Nieuwenhuis.
Nicknamed by many “Capt Kirk” for the obvious Star Trek reference, Nieuwenhuis has gotten off to a very good start down in AA with the Binghamton Mets. He is currently hitting .313/AVG .835/OPS 2/HR 7/2B 11/RBI all out of the leadoff spot. He is a big 6’3â€/210 lbs 22 year old Center Fielder that has been described as having “defensive chops in center and a well-rounded offensive game with some speed, patience and power.”
Recently Adam Rubin wrote a nice article on him where he talks about the former Big 12 football recruit. It is a must read of a player that just may be the Mets next Center Fielder sooner than you may think.
43 comments
rustyjr
4/29/2010-6:48am at 6:48 am (UTC -4)
Either that or he will be captain tradebait
stickguy
4/29/2010-8:48am at 8:48 am (UTC -4)
I don’t really see him getting traded. If F Mart is being considered a CF option (but, this is the same group that decided a 20 YO live arm shouldn’t start anymore when he could become a mop up man in the pen), they have no other apparent CF options in the system.
I really don’t want to think about what happens if Pagan goes down.
And I think any games that Beltran plays again are like finding a $20 on the gound. It can happen, and be thankful for it, but don’t expect it to happen very often!
trs86
4/29/2010-8:51am at 8:51 am (UTC -4)
Agreed and a shame. We are incredibly lucky to have Angel Pagan. I know that is hard to admit. But how many teams have a backup CF as good as Pagan? I know he is not a starter and we may need a long-term replacement but like you I am terrified of what happens if he goes down.
I still don’t understand why they are not trying to get Fmart to ‘learn’ CF. You would think if nothing else it builds trade value.
stickguy
4/29/2010-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think he has to learn CF. He already knows it. That is where he grew up playing, including all the way through last year in the minors (at least the 1st half), and a lot when he was called up to replace Beltran. He seemed to play it well enough.
I thought moving him was due to “projecting” him to ultimately not quite having the speed/range to play the position? So if that is the case, they could stick him back there tomorrow (or as soon as his back feels better!) and probably be just fine.
trs86
4/29/2010-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
I hope/wish that was the case. To me if your top prospect has been a CF then you leave him in CF until needed. I just don’t think they believe he has the ability to play CF.
ceetar
4/29/2010-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
We’ve had this discussion before, but I just assumed they were hedging their bets with Frenchy not being worthwhile the whole season. And even if he was, F-Mart in RF for 2011 anyway.
njstuckintx
4/29/2010-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
I’m not sure I agree with this. I think I’m done with annoiting people to positions until the stake claim to it. IE, Ike. With Frenchy being the club house presence and playing as he’s been, I can’t see him not being in RF next year. Should he start sucking like a hoover vacuum, well, that’ll be a different story then.
trs86
4/29/2010-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
I don’t get that at all though. There were plenty of reports coming out saying they no longer projected him as a CF.
Not only that but if Beltran is out if Frenchy stunk couldn’t Pagan play RF? Seems to me if the Mets though that Fmart could play CF then they would have him there.
stickguy
4/29/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
I would not be surprised if they were gunshy after last year, and wanted to give him some time to prove he was ready in AAA.
They got GM before F Mart was able to prove ehalthy and productive in ST. And Pagan was going to be here anyway.
So, similar to ike (but without the service time issue), they let the others have a shot to see how it went. And 1B didn’t go, so a change was made.
I still think the same thing could happen in the OF, but right now, Martinez isn’t even on the field.
trs86
4/29/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Interesting question, why would they think that CF was not a question mark but RF was?
metsfan4decades
4/29/2010-8:18am at 8:18 am (UTC -4)
I’m wondering what the FO has in mind concerning CF going forward now.
I can’t help but think if Omar realized last Oct. Beltran would be having additional surgery that would have him out the first half of the year, if he wouldn’t have made a different deal – one that didn’t involve GMJ. I’m assuming GMJ was insurance bought for only a month – not the first half of the season.
trs86
4/29/2010-8:28am at 8:28 am (UTC -4)
That is what really concerned me about how Fmart is being used. Frenchy is healthy and can play everyday. Bay usually plays the entire year. CF has not been stable for the Mets for a year now yet Fmart is playing the corner in AAA. The team has no faith in him as a CF. So our most ready OF prospect is doing us no good.
My second thought with this is long term how will we replace Beltran’s offense. Neither Fmart nor Captain Kirk really look like they will be plus power guys. I know CF does not have to be, however, one of our advantages has always been getting power from unlikely spots like CF and SS. IF we do end up going with Kirk in CF to me that means that 2B will have to develop into a more power position. Stick celebrates. I keep reading, and I am guilty of it too, comments about how the Mets will have Kirk in CF, Fmart in RF, Tejada at 2B, Thole at Catcher. That’s all nice but where will the power come from?
stickguy
4/29/2010-8:54am at 8:54 am (UTC -4)
projecting what guys will become, especially with “power” (and in this case, I sense that you are using it as a euphonism for jacking HRs). I don’t know if anyone projected Utley to hit anywhere near the amount of HRS he did. Probably not Wright when he first came up (well, when he used to hit in the 30s!). And lot more examples.
So, while I doubt Kirk matches Beltrans big years of hitting 40, I am stil surprised Beltran was able to do that. Was he really a 40 HR guy 10 years ago either?
Even if he hits 20 (certainly projectable to that, given what he did last year), I’ll take it. Mets will just be a balanced team. Lots of 20 guys maybe, but not a huge 40+ bat. Unless Ike becomes one!
Bay/davis/wright/reyes/RF/CF will all hit some HRs.
trs86
4/29/2010-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
Yeah true we don’t know what these guys will become but that still leaves us in a tricky position.
Also with Beltran, I hate to admit it but I would not be surprised (ducks) if those results were not for real.
stickguy
4/29/2010-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
also, my take on the plan for F Mart this off season?
I think they were expecting Beltran back by the spring (after a nice off seaosn of rest), since he was back playing in september. And they were also still crossing their fingers, not knowing what Frenchy they were going to get in 2010.
So, while Beltran was a risk of being out due to injury, it was probably just as big of a risk that Frnechy sucked in 2010 and needed to be replaced. And for 2011, a way higher chance that Frenchy would be gone than that Beltran would be gone.
Combine that with feeling Martinez wasn’t going to stick in CF, and might as well get him learning to play the corners.
trs86
4/29/2010-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
Then once it was known about Beltran why not move him to CF? It should not take a CF long to learn how to play the corners.
I really believe that just think he would stink in CF.
stickguy
4/29/2010-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
possibly. I also believe they don’t always make the right decision, and you don’t know until you try!
njstuckintx
4/29/2010-9:06am at 9:06 am (UTC -4)
Well, as currently constructed, you’ll have power from RF, LF, SS, 3B and 1B. (and pitcher when santana is playing!
)
ceetar
4/29/2010-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
Pagan isn’t worthless in my opinion, power wise. you forgot C.
and I’d like to see Jose actually pop one soon..
njstuckintx
4/29/2010-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
True for this year. Next year, sans Beltran, I’m not sure we see much (read: a lot of) power from CF, 2B or C unless we resign Barajas for 1 more year. With Thole and Castillo/minor leaguer, I can’t see we get much pop from them.
Pagan… Yeah, I’ll conceed he has pop. He’s one of those he hits home runs but I don’t think of him as a power hitter, which is weird cause Reyes does the same but I view him as more of a power threat.
Barajas is on a 1 year, right? Do I need more coffee?
stickguy
4/29/2010-9:19am at 9:19 am (UTC -4)
both catchers are on 1 year deals.
Can’t help you with the coffee issue!
trs86
4/29/2010-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
Yeah current construction was not what I was talking about. More long-term if Kirk, Ruben, Fmart and Thole are placed in the lineup.
stickguy
4/29/2010-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
see below. I don’t think Tejada will be the starting 2B in that scenerio. I could see the other 3 all in the line up by 2012 though.
njstuckintx
4/29/2010-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
Even future-ly constructed, I’m still not sure I see Frenchy not being there next year, and he has pop. Tejada, Thole and Captain K could develop power, but not likely in the first year up in the bigs, assuming they make it.
Assuming kids play as they do and Beltran’s knee forcing major loss of playing time, (barring major trades, blah, blah) you figure Bay, Fmart/Kirk/Pagan, Frenchy, Wright, Reyes, Tejada, Ike, Thole/Barajas(?), Pitcher. Log jam at center.
Again, as stated, if Frenchy starts playing like a 24-25 year old in atlanta, that would solve all log jams…
trs86
4/29/2010-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Interesting what they do with Frenchy.
Say he is a .280, .320, .800 guy with 18-20 HR and 90 RBI while playing solid defense. Those are pretty solid predictions don’t you think?
Would that production be worth the 7-8M he is likely to receive next year?
Of course what that does not factor in and what we can only speculate on is how much the clubhouse factor is worth.
njstuckintx
4/29/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
I agree, it’s going to be interesting with the French-miester. With that line, it’s a stretch for 8 mill, prob closer to 6, but they’d settle at 7ish. And with the grit/club factor sprinkled in, I can’t see him not being there. If they’ll pay 2 mill for cora cause he’s a good guy/presence, how do they not pay for Francouer, who will only be 27 next year.
trs86
4/29/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
Cora is a bench player though. His lack of production would not hurt you. Those stats cash wise would not be worth 7M but again I have no idea how much the clubhouse factor is worth.
stickguy
4/29/2010-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
I think TRS mentioned 2B in a comment. Ideally they find a way to add hitting (and hopefully some opwer) out of that spot. Havens of course would have been able to do that?
But if Kirk came u pafter beltran is gone in 2012, Castillo is also gone. And with kirk and Ike (and maybe F Mart, thole), they should be able to afford to buy a 2B that can hit.
If beltran is done this year, and Kirk took over next year, they might have to make the decision (that I think they do anyway) this off seaosn to upgrade the bat at 2B. With 1 year left, Castillo is very tradeable or cuttable by eating a relatively small salary.
trs86
4/29/2010-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
Thing is 2B may come open before the other spots. I am not sold on Havens yet. I got nothing on his defense and while his bat projects to be good I will have to see him do something above A ball.
stickguy
4/29/2010-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
got play to show what you can do, but he has put up very solid production while he has been on the field (other than BA not being great). SOlid OBP and power numbers.
but unless he gets back soon and stays back, can’t put him in the conversation even for 2012.
trs86
4/29/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
Agreed
stickguy
4/29/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
To hell with Kirk. Can Wilmer learn to play Cf? How about 2B, we need a future there! If he is too big for SS, let him be the next big 2B.
Currently has a snappy .960 OPS. Might only be in low A, but he is also only 18, so still impressive. Especially since he hardly ever Ks, even while putting up power numbers.
Flores is fourth in the SAL in batting average (.357), sixth in slugging (.560), third in hits (30), fifth in doubles (9), and third in total bases while maintaining his spot the fourth-toughest hitter in the league to strikeout. Hitting Coach Ryan Ellis has raved recently about the improvements Flores has made
trs86
4/29/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
He will have to for sure develop patience at the plate. Although that is misleading because you should not stand there taking pitches when you are hitting everything. I guess once his reputation develops and he stops getting pitches to hit that will be a bigger test. Hopefully they move him along the ranks. As far as switching positions I think you keep him at SS as long as he can play there. There is no guarantee that Reyes is our long term solution at SS and it increases his trade value.
prismo
4/29/2010-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
We should be thankful that we have these options! I think Mets fans are feeling really good about our minor leaguers these days, which is awesome.
trs86
4/29/2010-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
AGREED.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/29/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
I think it’s exciting to talk about the home grown prospects, but how many of Kirk, FMart, Tejada, Thole, etc do you expect to become a legit starter in the majors?
I could easily see the Mets re-signing Beltran for 2 yr contract and/or getting Brandon Phillips via FA. Personally I’d like to see the home grown guys succeed, but I also wouldn’t mind trading for SP as well.
stickguy
4/29/2010-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
they will never resign beltran. It would be idiocy to give the guy, at age 35, a multi year deal.
metsfan4decades
4/29/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Since Beltran technically has a no trade clause, is it fair to assume he’ll be playing CF for us at least through next year? If yes, I would think an 80% healthy-knees Beltran is still better than most options for the time being. This gives them a year to come up with a replacement.
I’ve been seeing good thinks on Kirk but I don’t think he projects to be a Beltran. Then again, very few CFs are…..
Didn’t I see somewhere that Havens is out with an oblique injury?
trs86
4/29/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
4D I hate to approach it this way but until I see Beltran back in CF and even 80% healthy I will continue to think past him.
DNDJohan aka kistics
4/29/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Even 2 years down the road, I still think 35yr old Beltran might be a better option than a lot of CFs out there.
I know it’s still early, but it might not be a bad idea to sign him for another 2 years. Especially that the Mets don’t get anything back if he walks.
trs86
4/29/2010-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
Right now DND he can’t even walk.
metsfan4decades
4/29/2010-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
Well, I agree we have to. But given the contract he has, I’m saying I doubt they trade him. When the contract is up, I think they’ll move on to other options.
CaseStreet
4/29/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
yeah, I just don’t see Capt. Kirk in the mix at all.
Either Beltran is back playing like a MVP or Pagan continues to make the case that he’s a everyday player.
I say keep the prospects in the minors until we really need them. With the way Pagan and Frenchy are playing, F-Mart and Kirk should stay comfy in the minors.