Yesterday I wrote a “test” post on our future site www.realdirtymets.com :What’s it gonna take?
The idea in the post was what is it gonna take to get Mets fans past the emotional damage of the last 3 years. 2010 is a new season that has already been a roller coaster ride. Starting out slow and then playing incredible through the home-stand, so well they were able to take the lead from the back to back NL champ Phillies.  Following the incredible run they lost 2/3 in Philly after having a great opprotunity to take the series with Santana vs Moyer. Now they have lost 2/3 yet again to the Reds, both losses coming on walk off homeruns in extra innings.
During the winning streak Mets fans had guarded high hopes but now after a 2/4 stretch on the road it’s back to gloom and doom for many. That is their right and I completely understand the frustration. My question today is how as Mets fans do we get past the trauma of the past 3 years? I know many disagree with this next thought but I can’t help but wonder if the fans not being able to view 2010 as a new season instead of a continuation of previous seasons is detrimental to the team itself? Is it fair to say that we will get past our trauma when the players do something to get us past it? Can the reverse not be true as well?
UPDATE:
Two of our valued readers, njstuckintx and stickguy have provided Mets fans the very 12 step process need to get you past your past.
- Sit back, have a beer and relax.
- Consider getting laid, that makes everything better.
- Realize this is a game to be enjoyed and if you aren’t enjoying it, consider other activities.
- Even the hated Yankees do not win every game, every series, every post season. To think all games are to be won it ludacrisp, as Iron Mike would say
- Stop listening to Mike Fatty or Big Head Kay. Just stop. Pod cast the Schmooz or just loop the “Meet the Mets†song over and over.
- Go have a game of Catch with your kid/brother/sister/buddy and realize why you love the game again.
- Get baseball package, watch just games involving the Pirates, Astros, Nats, Orioles… You’ll appreciate what you have.
- Watch your DVD collection of the 1986 playoffs, and remember what can happen, and what keeps you coming back.
- Go play with your dog. That cures all emotional ills. If you don’t have one, go get one from the shelter. Actually, get 2, they have plenty.
- Get out your Jerry Voodoo doll and stick pins in it. Always good for hours of good, clean fun.
- Be glad you don’t actually have to work for a living, so that you have time to hang out here most of the day.
- Be glad you were not cursed to have become a soulless Yankee fan.
- (A baker’s dozen). Go back to 1, and have more beers. Hey, can’t hurt!
157 comments
ceetar
5/7/2010-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
Most won’t be past it until at least the playoffs.
I think if they stopped with the gut punching losses would be a good start. Feeling like they gave the game away is what hurts the most, and most reminds us of Jerry Manuel’s unsuccessful tenure as a manager.
Other small things.. Santana pitching a perfect game, a couple of walk-off wins/homers..
trs86
5/7/2010-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
I know you and I have had this discussion but what will make the players get past it?
ceetar
5/7/2010-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
oh, the Players?
hmm. You know what I’m going to say, better leadership. And consistant performance.
njstuckintx
5/7/2010-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
I’m sure the players are over it. It’s the reporters and bloggers that keep bringing it up over and over and over. I’m sure Frenchy, Barajas, etc. don’t give 2 flips about what was.
Like Ceetar said about the small things… Perfect games, walk offs, etc. That would go to pacifying the fans to beleive that this isn’t the same bunch of losers and “almost winners” that’s been trotting on the field for the past 3 years.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
“I’m sure the players are over it. It’s the reporters and bloggers that keep bringing it up over and over and over.”
AMEN
trs86
5/7/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
So how do you get them over it? I myself am over it. I think 2010 is a new year and I am excited about this year and especially the future. We, however, know the fanbase as a whole is not.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
who the fans?
see below
trs86
5/7/2010-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
So that’s the only way? Win what? 100 games, make the playoffs? Win the WS? So as Mets fans we can’t just accept this team as a new team and move on? Until we win we will always think it’s the same team as 2007?
ceetar
5/7/2010-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
This is sad. I don’t understand how you can be a fan and think every curveball thrown to Beltran (I’d setting for any pitch thrown to him right now, but not the point) is going to strike him out, that David Wright will always ground out in a big spot. That it’s just inevitable that the bullpen is going to blow it if we’re up 5-4 in the 8th. That we’ll never come back.
Isn’t half the fun rooting for this stuff? If your’e so down on it happening, how do you have any fun?
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
This is not about a single season but rather a mentality. For fans they just need to win.
trs86
5/7/2010-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
I don’t get that thought though. So the fans can’t be get over 2007-2009 until we win a WS or just win? What if they win 100 games and then Wright does not come through in a big spot in the playoffs? Is it right back to whoas me this team is the same team as 2007-2009?
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
Like you said you don’t get that.
udontmesswthejohan
5/7/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
How do you get anyone over anything disappointing that has happened in someone’s life?
You deal with it and you move on or you brood over it and you never get passed it. These are grown men, who are paid a King’s ransom to play baseball for God sakes. I just can’t spend too much time worrying about their collective psyches.
trs86
5/7/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
OK so shouldn’t the same be said of the fans? Shouldn’t they deal with it and move on instead of brooding over it and never getting past it?
udontmesswthejohan
5/7/2010-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
Dude, the minute they start consistently winning ballgames, I gurantee you that the fans (fair weather and otherwise) will be coming out of the woodwork in droves. But again, it’s not incumbent on the fans to fix the mess that this orginization has been embroiled in for the last three years. That responsibility lies with the people who are getting paid to perform their jobs adequately. I think you way over value the effect that a fan base has on a team. Do you really think that a major league team cares about the reaction of the fans?
trs86
5/7/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
Do you deny that there is such a thing as home field advantage?
I can’t show you statistically that cheering loudly for a team and trying to pull them through a tough spot helps. Can you prove it does not?
So win the Mets were winning 9-10 were the fans coming out of the woodworks? Were they saying this is a new team? As soon as we lost the first game to the Phillies it was “oh this is the same Mets team as ….”
So consistently winning games will help the Mets fan get over the past. I get it but I am not sure I agree with the premise. Why not get over it because you are a Mets fan?
udontmesswthejohan
5/7/2010-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
The reason that people are still hesitant to throw their full support behind the team, even with winning 9 of 10, is that because they played so poorly to begin the season. As you yourself said, it;s been a roller coaster ride. The majority of fans are not what you or I would call diehards, they are more casual, and they are afraid of being burned again, so they are hesitant to throw their full support behind the team.
As for me, when they were winning those 9 of 10, it was the first time in a good long time when I was really enjoying wwatching them. I had forgotten that feeling and loved it, but I also made sure not to get too carried away with it considering the type of ball they played at the very start of the season.
njstuckintx
5/7/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
A couple of silly wins in a row. Like, uh, how did we just win this game. It’s reverse the stigma. I am with you in that I’m over the past aura. This year, I wait to the game is actually over to conceed defeat where in the past few years, you just knew they would find new and interesting ways to lose or there was no chance they were coming back.
Now, granted giving up 2 walk offs in one series doesn’t help their case…
trs86
5/7/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
You would think that winning 8 in a row and taking 1st place would do it.
njstuckintx
5/7/2010-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
If winning 9 of 10 or whatever it was didn’t do it, I’m not sure what will, unfortunately. People forget about the Marathon of the season. Maybe one day they’ll see the forest through all those trees.
udontmesswthejohan
5/7/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
“My question today is how as Mets fans do we get past the trauma of the past 3 years?”
That’s easy – win. I don’t mean to be simplistic, but its the truth. I’ve been a fan of this orginization for close to 25 years and the fans have dealt with more then their fair share of disappointment, but nothing like the last three years. It’s been a tough pill to follow.
I will continue to support this team for the rest of my life, but right now, they have to prove to the fanbase, the rest of baseball, and most importantly, TO THEMSELVES that they can get past the last 3 years.
It’s not about the fans or our reaction to their play, its the TEAM that needs to take a look in the mirror and decide how they want to be portrayed. They can be the team that couched up two consecutive leads down the stretch and never regained their footing, or they can grow from those expierences and climb back to the top. I would like nothing more for the latter scenario to play out, but until it does, the fans are going to look at this team warily, and rightfully so. After all, we aren’t the ones making millions of dollars and living the charmed life.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
“My question today is how as Mets fans do we get past the trauma of the past 3 years?â€
That’s easy – win
AMEN again
trs86
5/7/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
I think you guys are missing the question. I know you guys don’t agree but I believe there is merit to the idea that get over it and maybe that will help us win?
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
who? fans or players?
trs86
5/7/2010-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
Yes. I just see no reason to treat 2010 as a continuation of 2007-2009. I don’t see how that’s productive. Why not get behind THIS team as it is evident that they are playing their ass off with the team that they have? Why think after an incredible homestand and some bad luck going 2-4 afterwards that it’s back to the same ole Mets?
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know what you mean by getting behind this team? If you mean going to games then I will say simply fans with the financial means will go if they believe this team can win. Clearly fans simply do not believe yet that to be so.
trs86
5/7/2010-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
So again the only way that fans will get over the past is for the Mets to win? I have no idea what that would feel like. To be miserable as a Mets fan this year because they did not win the year before. Must suck to be a Cubs fan.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
Clearly
ceetar
5/7/2010-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
from a fans standpoint? Maybe. Going into games with a positive outlook and not looking for the first excuse to boo might give the players a boost of feeling supported. who knows. Fan support is not something that can be sabermetricized.
I’m not quite over it myself. I try, but i see Manuel make the same stupid mistakes, see some of the same problems not addressed.
However, I don’t think the Phillies get a handicap. I don’t think it maens they’ve got an advantage. I don’t think “Pelfrey feels a little tightness” means he’s out for the season. Because there isn’t a pattern to the injuries and it doesn’t tie into last season.
trs86
5/7/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
That makes you a rational fan but we have a lot that are not. As evident by declining ticket sells and increased tension on blogs etc.
ceetar
5/7/2010-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Really, the only way we’re going to get past it is when the media and guys like Mike Francesa start talking about the Mets and how they’ve got a real shot at dominating thsi division.
udontmesswthejohan
5/7/2010-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
“Dominating” the division. Really? See you are the type of fan on the complete opposite side of the spectrum of those who constantly cry that the sky is falling. How anyone in their right mind could argue that the Mets could conceivably “dominate” this division like they did in 2006 is wholly beyond my grasp of reality. You need to be a lot more realistic Ceetar.
ceetar
5/7/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
I wasn’t making a statement about the Mets, merely what would need to happen before fans shook off the past.
It would need losers like Francesa and the mainstream media guys proclaiming the Mets as a powerhouse.
The Mets are unlikely to dominate the division this year, barring a couple of guys stepping up to have insane career years. And Manuel getting fired.
trs86
5/7/2010-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
That’s really sad though. That Mets fans are that influenced by a negative media and can’t see past that.
ceetar
5/7/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
All fans are unfortunately. You could always extend that statement to pretty much every facet of life though.
udontmesswthejohan
5/7/2010-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
I misunderstood your train of thought. I apologize.
njstuckintx
5/7/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
I figured out how they get over it. It just came to me like a ray of sunshine through the clouds. The fans need to A. sit back, have a beer and relax. B. Consider getting laid, that makes everything better. C. Realize this is a game to be enjoyed and if you aren’t enjoying it, consider other activities. D. Even the hated Yankees do not win every game, every series, every post season. To think all games are to be won it ludacrisp, as Iron Mike would say. E. Stop listening to Mike Fatty or Big Head Kay. Just stop. Pod cast the Schmooz or just loop the “Meet the Mets” song over and over.
trs86
5/7/2010-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Hey good job. That’s 5, we need 7 more. A little help guys.
njstuckintx
5/7/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
F. Go have a game of Catch with your kid/brother/siste/buddy and realize why you love the game again.
G. Get baseball package, watch just games involving the Pirates, Astros, Nats, Orioles… You’ll appreciate what you have.
just need 5 more.
trs86
5/7/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Come on guys. I will add this to the post if we can get 12.
stickguy
5/7/2010-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
H: Watch your DVD collection of the 1986 playoffs, and remember what can happen, and what keeps you coming back.
I: Go play with your dog. That cures all emotional ills. If you don’t have one, go get one from the shelter. Actually, get 2, they have plenty.
J: Get out your Jerry Voodoo doll and stick pins in it. Always good for hours of good, clean fun.
K: Be glad you don’t actually have to work for a living, so that you have time to hang out here most of th day.
L: Be glad you were not cursed to have become a soulless yankee fan.
M: (A baker’s dozen). Go back to A, and have more beers. Hey, can’t hurt!
njstuckintx
5/7/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
my 86′ is a VHS tape.
stickguy
5/7/2010-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
buy the box set man. Good stuff in there.
njstuckintx
5/7/2010-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Does it still have the wild boys song with Wally and Lenny?
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Look I don’t know what you want fans to do but clearly if you think fans are the forgetful type then I have nothing further to say on that subject. Winning has always made things go away it cant get any simpler than that.
Why fans are staying away from games can be a number of things. Economy has to play a role and winning has to play a role also. Fans will go if they believe this team can win as long as they have the financial means. If Citi is empty you don’t need a degree in psychology to put 2 and 2 together as to why.
stickguy
5/7/2010-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
I don’t have any emotional damage or trauma. Every year really is a new start. ANd every team is different.
HOpe for the best, expect the worst, and take whatever comes.
ANd watch the games and root for the teams. That is one thing I never understood. “Fans” that abandoned ship as soon as they weren’t winning all the time.
trs86
5/7/2010-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. That I guess is my question still. There are some of us that have been over the past few years. It hurt but this team is not responsible for that, the 2007 and 2008 teams were.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
You have it wrong people that “abandoned ship as soon as they weren’t winning all the time.” are just people not fans. Don’t confuse the 2.
trs86
5/7/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Perhaps abandoned ship was the wrong word at least for me. I am talking about the fan that as soon as we get down 4-3 in the 8th they assume the worst or the fan that as soon as we lose one game to Philly in Philly say “same ole Mets”.
stickguy
5/7/2010-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
well, I think that the “same old mets” is often a defense mechanism. Don’t get your hopes up, and you won’t get disappointed.
The “abandon ship” theory was the people that claim to be rabid fans, but as soon as it looks like they might not cruise to the playoffs, they won’t go to a game, stop watching, etc. IOW, abandon their “fandom”.
I think they are worse then the ones that just don’t like heartbreak. At least they come back for the next game!
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
Fans come in all varieties there is no one way to be a fan some boo and some don’t some cheer and some don’t.
To try and understand why do certain fans do what they do is an exercise that I do not wish to use my time on. Safe to say Fans do what they do and will continue to do so long after this post.
The post asked “how as Mets fans do we get past the trauma of the past 3 years?â€
I continue to say that’s easy – just win
trs86
5/7/2010-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
I understand your position and say that it will take even more than that but should not take even that.
stickguy
5/7/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
well, I will take it a step farther than win.
Clinch a playoff spot.
Until that happens, you still have to hear about 7 in 17.
I think that would do it.
trs86
5/7/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
I am not sure a playoff spot even does it. If they make the playoffs and then during the 1st round nothing goes right it will be back to the same mentality.
stickguy
5/7/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
well, then some people are beyond help. So screw them.
trs86
5/7/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Think about how many people were booing opening day 2007 and were negative from the start. Seriously.
steveo
5/7/2010-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
This team has to find something that makes fans love them again. In the past few years it has been Reyes and Wright. Now maybe it will be Niese and Davis, a normal season not even a playoff season and I think the fans are back in it. New yorks a tough town but here out west the met fans, and there are allot of them are still proud and root hard for them.
trs86
5/7/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
Hmmm, interesting I love the Mets because they are the Mets. I root for the players because they are Mets. Perhaps you are right, just being normal for a year would help.
metsfan4decades
5/7/2010-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
I’ve moved past the last few disappointing seasons. You can’t change the past.
As Met fans, you can’t dictate the present or predict the future either.
You can either choose to:
(a) root for this team, no matter what the outcomes of every game.
(b) Watch the games but complain about every at bat, lost opportunity, strike out at bat, runners left on, losses, FO, etc…
(c) step away from watching until you yourself feel they’re a team worth watching.
Me? I’m an (a) kind of person. I watched every game last year (and it doesn’t get any worse than that) and I’ll be watching every game this year, rooting them on. Doesn’t mean I’m not emotionally invested and I won’t be either very elated or disappointed or even sometimes just downright angry. Just means I’m a fan of the NY Mets, I love baseball and the Mets are my team.
Goes without saying I’d be getting a whole lot more enjoyment if they are a contending team all year…..
trs86
5/7/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Damn that’s well said.
metsgirl31
5/7/2010-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
This sort of ties into the whole fans booing them at home issue. People can rationalize it all they want and say fans are booing cuz of last year or the cummulative effect of the last 3 years, or that they pay their money so they can “express” themselves however they want. I don’t buy either of those things. Get behind your team no matter what happened last year or the year before, etc. Positive energy beats negative energy any day of the week. Booing at home and feeling like the sky is falling with every loss doesn’t help anyone. Its a new year and if the players should have short memories then so should the fans. Just my opinion.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
I asked this before and I will ask it again. Why do people focus on the small amount of people that boo at games? Why don’t you ask why don’t more people cheer?
If people simply cheered they would drown out the small minority that boos. Yet people always focuse on the booers when the real issue is why don’t fans simply cheer more?
njstuckintx
5/7/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Squeaky Wheel Syndrome.
stickguy
5/7/2010-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Let me try this one.
I think that most fans have 2 settings. Cheer and quiet. Cheering is for when something good/exciting/special is happening. The rest of the “down” time, they rest, chat with neighbors, drink their beer (hey, is it noon yet?), stuff like that.
But, the booers work at the opposite time, so you really notice if a small number of loud mouths boo when “normal” people are just quiet.
I cheer enough that I am usually horse when I get home. But you can’t keep that up the entire game, and it seems silly to do it when a batter is striking out with a man on 3rd!
trs86
5/7/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Good point, why would you cheer Ollie when he comes off after 4.2 innings of 3 run ball?
stickguy
5/7/2010-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
because I have seen much worse?
trs86
5/7/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
LOL, true. However, if I see a car wreck on the interstate that only involved 4 cars I don’t cheer because there were not 5.
trs86
5/7/2010-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Hmmm, good question but I would differ that it’s a small amount, while it may still be smaller that population grows every week based on what I can tell, that may be completely off.
As for cheering I am not sure. I have not been to many games in NY but of course the media always makes it sure that it emphasizes the boos because it’s a better story.
ceetar
5/7/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Well the sitautions aren’t similar. I’m not goingto cheer Oliver Perez giving up a walk. Or a pitcher getting pulled after blowing the game.
I _did_ Cheer for Perez and Castillo during the openingday announcements though.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
It’s not about cheering an out it is about drowning boos.
I can care less if a fan boos far be it from me to tell a fan what they should or shouldn’t boo.
I only bring it up for those that are bothered by the boos. When Yankee fans come in to Citi Fields and cheer the Yankees Mets fans that are bothered by it try cheering the Mets louder. The same should apply to people that hate it when fans boo.
trs86
5/7/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
I understand your point but should we really try and cheer over the boos for a guy that strikes out?
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
Like I said I could care less. I merely bring it up for those that are bothered by the booing.
Kingman 26
5/7/2010-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
For me, the last game of the first week of the season, on top of the lackluster spring, really hit me hard.
Getting mowed down by Livan after the early grand slam, Jerry’s “unpreprared” comments, Francoeur’s “motions” comments…..enough of the 2005–2009 Mets.
This group needed two weeks of rotten play and another callup to light a fire under them so that they could play well and with purpose. Their atrocious manager needed daily firing talks before he would get Mike Jacobs out of the middle of the lineup.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this team clearly came north from Florida in the same precise manner they have now for the last 3–4 years—poorly led, in mediocre shape, lazy, unprepared, and ready to start off the season slow as hell. Again.
And the injury situation has not been overcome; Reyes is not yet Reyes and Beltran is still VERY much Beltran. Maine and Ollie and Johan are either hurt or healthy; if they are not hurt, their strength and velocities should have been built back by now. Hopefully soon we will know. Is Castillo finally breaking down?
I am just sick of all of it. I definitely have a very healthy balance in life, but I put too much time and mental energy into this team to again watch it play like a bunch of sloppy, mismanaged, tight slugs as they did the first two weeks.
We need change, we need youth, and we need health. Davis, Mejia, and Niese have been a refreshing start of something which must keep flowing. These players are like a fountain of youth for this group of guys (Wright, Reyes, Castillo, Johan, Maine, Ollie, Pelf, KRod, Feliciano) who have been prematurely aged the last few years.
The Pedro/Delgado/Beltran/Willie/Jerry era is OVER.
I am sick of players like Mike Jacobs. And it is time for a minor leaguer in CF, Pagan on the bench, and the terrible GMJ as far away from this team as possible. As soon as Murph is healthy, he takes Cat’s place. Keep the new blood flowing in. Gee replaces Ollie or Maine when one of them goes.
A few more new Junior Core members in, plus liberation from the horrible manager we are saddled with, and the transition will be nearly complete.
The Pedro/Delgado/Beltran Met era is over.
I welcome the Mejia/Davis/Niese/etc era.
I gladly will watch enthusiastic youngsters make mistakes. I simply cannot watch Mike Jacobs and Gary Matthews Jr continue their awful careers while wearing the Met uniform. I would much rather watch Nick Evans and Kirk Neuwenhuis and Fernando Martinez.
And RA Dickey can throw 12 no-hitters in AAA. Keep him and his kind AWAY from this team. He is garbage, and old, rancid, stinky garbage.
Wright and Reyes and the pen and the Junior Core. That’s the ticket.
trs86
5/7/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Well that’s something. Completely disagree with much of it but it’s something. If you feel that way it’s no wonder you have taken a step back, I would too.
stickguy
5/7/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Wow. How long have you had this pent up inside? Or hitting the wild turkey early today (Hey, TGIF Baby!)
I do agree with the youth instead of the decrepit old guys like Cat and gm). And for sure, the Delgado days are over.
Too bad Omar or Jeffy insists on saddling us with Jerry for (I guess) all season.
I also disagree about CF. Pagan is fine for now (he is not part of the problem). And I got no problem with getting a helathy/productive betran back!
trs86
5/7/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Agreed about Pagan Stick. While longterm he is not a starter for a team with hopes of winning a championship he certainly holds his on and is one of the few Mets who are currently hitting. Defensively he has been much more solid this year than I expected.
My thoughts were on taking what players say in the media as actual truth that you should go by. As someone who understands how media guides a lot of opinions we also don’t know how truthful players are in the media nor often the context in which the statement was made. I myself have seen a completely different team this year that has played with a ton of emotion and fire. Kingman has not seen that. I have to wonder if it’s because we are looking for something that we find it.
Kingman 26
5/7/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
I DO see the fire since Davis came up.
The first week was silly, the second week was a little better, then they started to play hard when they were 4-8 and Ike came up.
trs86
5/7/2010-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
Like I said I am not sure I buy that they were not playing hard. Forget comments made in the media I saw a team that was trying too hard. Again, I guess it’s what you are looking for.
Kingman 26
5/7/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Maybe so.
I saw a team which, for at least the third year in a row, came out of spring training utterly unprepared for the season.
And that certainly was not what I was looking for.
Sloppy play, guys not healthy, and a rotten start. Again.
ceetar
5/7/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
Jerry honestly makes me angry. I can’t even listen to him anymore. Theo nlyt imes is Wednesday with Francesa when I drive home, and even then It sucks. Even after 9-1 I was infuriated with what he was saying and his attitude and poor managerial skills.
trs86
5/7/2010-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Obviously, but Jerry has gotten to the point with most of us that we are looking for things that he does wrong. I wonder if we have a lot of fans that are the same way about the team?
Kingman 26
5/7/2010-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Alas, I never really get to hit the bourbon early; except when I am in Vegas baby!
I just saw too much of the same old, same old the first two weeks.
I am glad they had a great 10 games, but still, despite the close losses, they have played 9 series, and lost 6 of them. And the three they won were with opponents who looked horrid.
I am watching, I am paying attention, and I love the pen and the new guys. It just makes me literally nearly ill when a guy like Mike Jacobs or GMJ plays. It makes me ill watching and listening to Jerry.
But I have been through worse and know better days are actually really close.
Why bother with Pagan? It is not Sept 15th. Let’s see more of the Future Core!
trs86
5/7/2010-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Why bother with Pagan? Because we can win this year and he can help.
stickguy
5/7/2010-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
as much as I am hoping that Kirk N. becomes the real deal, right now, Pagan is the best CF option the mets have.
I am actually more worried in the ST about 2B than CF. At least we (theoretically) have Beltran coming back at some point.
I think Castillo is crumbling right now, and getting so many days off due to bad wheels that they are trying to nurse along.
GOod thing there isn’t much (any?) turf left in the NL.
trs86
5/7/2010-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
Also another question, did those teams look horrid because of the Mets? It’s not like that 9/10 came against scrubs.
ceetar
5/7/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
No, the Mets don’t make teams look sloppy and stupid. It’s just how the league is in gneral. The playoffs last year weren’t exactlyclean and smooth.
Pagan is a good player. Assuming we get the other pieces together, we can win with Pagan as the CF.
trs86
5/7/2010-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
I was just saying you can’t use the excuse that the Mets got lucky during the streak because the teams played horrible.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
In King’s defense he never said lucky just that the three series the Mets won were with opponents who looked horrid.
Kingman 26
5/7/2010-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
Thanks; definitely not saying luck, and we have lost several games we could have easily won.
Those teams we beat really looked bad.
stickguy
5/7/2010-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
that, and wasn’t it the only time all year that Bay hit?
Makes a ton of difference.
metsfan4decades
5/7/2010-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Thing is though, we could have looked just as horrid as those teams and not have taken advantage of their poor play.
We did and to me that points to we do have talent on this team to get it done.
Now whether we can do that consistently, with Jerry at the helm, is a whole ‘nother question.
metsfan4decades
5/7/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
I understand the mindset about the Junior Core. I too like the youth movement. Problem I see is going too much ‘out with the old’, in with the ‘new’ is the jury is still out on how some of these young ones will perform in the majors.
If we have too many rookies breaking in at once, it’s a big chance we’re taking. Have to be ready to write off the season to do that. Reason is they have as much chance to fail as they do to make a difference.
No matter what we fans feel about this team as currently constructed, I can guarantee the FO doesn’t remotely think we can’t contend this year. I have to believe that’s the biggest reason why Mejia is still in the BP and not in the minors working on secondary pitches.
stickguy
5/7/2010-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
there is a difference though between the old “break up the core” idea (dump some of your best players for rookies), and wanting to clear some broken down corpses off the bench for young blood with more talent.
I do agree that if the FO thought this was a rebuilding year (even if they would never say it), Mejia would be at AA where he belongs.
ceetar
5/7/2010-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
Angels numbers as a Met, prorated to 162 games (He’s played 146)
171 Hits, 35 doubles, 16 triples, 8 HRs, OPS of .792 batting .293 OBP .346
Not saying that’s super or anything, but it’s a nice compliment if the other guys in the offense at least reach career numbers.
stickguy
5/7/2010-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
more than acceptable for a CF, even a starting one.
Want a good comparison? ALmost identical numbers to shane Victorino. HRs down slightly, but that has more to do with VIcky taking advantage of the bandbox.
2006 – 2009, his years as a FT player, his OPS has been .760, .770., 799., 803. And OBP ranged from .346-.358. BA .287-.292.
Angel even had a much higher OPS last year (in fewer ABs though) at .837.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Found this on MLBTR
The numbers have been pretty ugly so far. Bay is hitting just .238/.345/.376 in his first 119 plate appearances as a Met. And it isn’t like he’s been particularly hit-unlucky, with a .338 batting average on balls in play in 2010, above his career BABIP of .327. He’s walking and striking out about as much as he did in 2009, and is actually hitting more line drives this year than last year. So is it simply that Bay lost all of his power? Unlikely. It simply appears this streaky hitter is in a slump.
It went less noticed last year because of his strong start, but Bay had a remarkably similar period in his 2009 season. From June 3 to July 31, 2009, Bay hit .214/.349/.341, with just four home runs in 212 plate appearances over that time. However, he balanced that out with 222 plate appearances from the start of the season to June 2 hitting .286/.410/.632, and finished the season from August 1 on with 204 plate appearances of .301/.392/.631 hitting.
Most likely, Mets fans will feel awfully silly about Bay fretting once he goes on this type of extended tear. And fortunately for the Mets, the concerns about his defense have largely proven to be unfounded so far, with Bay hovering right around average in left field.
darknova306
5/7/2010-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not worried about Bay. I saw that streak last year, as I watch a lot of baseball at a local bar with a Red Sox fan, so both games are usually on in front of us. It’s just a really unfortunate time for him to be in one of his slump streaks. It was still a good signing by Omar.
trs86
5/7/2010-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Changing subjects for one post:
It went less noticed last year because of his strong start, but Bay had a remarkably similar period in his 2009 season. From June 3 to July 31, 2009, Bay hit .214/.349/.341, with just four home runs in 212 plate appearances over that time. However, he balanced that out with 222 plate appearances from the start of the season to June 2 hitting .286/.410/.632, and finished the season from August 1 on with 204 plate appearances of .301/.392/.631 hitting.
From MLBTR.
ceetar
5/7/2010-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
Jinx, you owe NJ a beer.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
stickguy
5/7/2010-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
hey, it is after noon! I’m in!
trs86
5/7/2010-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
Damn you freak me out sometimes NJ. LOL.
metsfan4decades
5/7/2010-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
On another note, this from David Lennon:
‘The next step for Carlos Beltran may be much more significant than running on a baseball field, which he plans to finally do Monday in Port St. Lucie, Fla. As long as Beltran continues to show only marginal improvement after the January operation on his right knee, the odds of his needing microfracture surgery steadily increase.’
ceetar
5/7/2010-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
Queue all sorts of “Mets doctors suck” reports for not taking care of this immediately. (although jumping into microfracture surgery is beyond dumb)
We’ll see how it goes. The reports feel like a game of telephone lately, and I’m not the one looking at the knee and the bruises. One bruise is definitely getting better, the other not so much.
However, the good news out of that post: (Beyond that it was just a random doctor, and none of Beltran’s) It’s certainly possible he could play on them. And if he did there is no real guarentee that he’d wear down and need surgery soon or any faster. The bruises aren’t always painful or hurting anything. It’s entirely possibly that he would never know they were there. It’s reported that he hurt after a minute of running (something he won’t do in a baseball game right?) but no word on which bruise it was causing the pain. If it’s the one that’s healing, he could be 100% next week.. The brace should help with all that as well.
I didn’t take the overall post as good news, but I’m refusing to make any judgements at this point. It does seem likely that we’ll probably see Beltran either by July, or not at all.
stickguy
5/7/2010-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
that is why I had 2 sets of odds. back by the ASB, and not at all.
Right now, neither one surprises me. And from what I saw of basket ball players that got microfracture, very real possibility it would spell the end of his career, almost certainly he would never play again for the mets.
and after almost 3 full years off, what are the odds that he would be coming back when he is about to turn 35, and be able to function in CF?
Actually, if if came down to a choice of play on it or do the microfracture, might as well see if you could manage (with judicious rest and treatments) to play through it, since the team has a shot at the playoffs?
worst thing that could happen is he can’t do it, and gets the surgery anyway!
and if he does get it, the hope of another big payday in 2012 has to be a pipedream.
ceetar
5/7/2010-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
I have a feeling he’ll at least try to play on it if he can run first to third, dive for a looping liner with no problem.
trs86
5/7/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
All the more reason to question why the hell Fmart is playing RF, the one guy who I am not really afraid at all of significant time missed.
trs86
5/7/2010-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
While not necissarily his fault, even though he can’t stay on the field, I am just about to the point of just saying trade Fmart and get it over with. The Mets seem to have no real plan on how to use him or any time table that it will occur. They have him playing the corner OF spots in AAA when the Met with the most question marks around him plays(ed) CF. Amazing. Was he that bad that he can’t even play CF in AAA?
metsfan4decades
5/7/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I wish I had the answers to those questions too.
Depending on Franceour’s year, he might find himself w/o a position on the Mets in the year you would think he would be breaking in…
trs86
5/7/2010-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, at this point even if Frenchy hits .260 with 18HR and 85+ RBI and plays solid defense the Mets will bring him back. He’s not coming up for Bay so why the hell are they playing him in RF and LF? He started the season as the Bisons LF. Seriously? Our top prospect starts the year in AAA at a spot blocked for the foreseeable future.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe he just can’t play center?
trs86
5/7/2010-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
Possible, then what is the plan?
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
for who FMart?
Be the best Right Fielder he can.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/7/2010-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed with NJ. If FMart can hit for power like he was advertised AND stay healthy, he should have a lot of value.
But at this point, I’m not sure what his capabilities are. Is he a .280 25-30HR with 35+ doubles? Or is he .300 15HR 25+ doubles? Or is he s bust? I don’t think anyone knows at this point.
trs86
5/7/2010-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
If that is so then to me he has no future on the Mets.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
The future is a funny thing. You never know what it may bring. All we can do is hope FMart can get better and the rest will take care of itself.
If that means he is traded for what we need then so be it. That will mean that whoever is playing RF must be having a good year and Fmart’s services are not needed.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/7/2010-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
He’s certainly the Mets’ #1 trading chip. Maybe they didn’t like what they saw in his work ethic/personality?
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/7/2010-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
Could it be that FMart doesn’t have the typical CF body/speed? He’s not lean or speedy, but has the body type of corner OFs. Combine that with his so-so defense, would equal corner OF.
I’m not saying I agree with the thought process, but I think this could be one of the reasons.
stickguy
5/7/2010-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
who knows what they expect. But, plans tend to change quickly, since you never know what will happen with individual players. My guess is they really don’t think he is good enough, and want to get him ready where he would have to play. ANd maybe save soem wear and tear on his body?
Right now, it is a moot point anyway until he starts hitting the way some people still think he can. Mediocre numbers and no walks (something like 1 in 75 ABS) isn’t going to get hi mout of AAA.
Hell, bring him up as the 4th OF if they want, and let him split time with bay and frenchy to keep eveyrone fresh. Or trade him, which is starting to seem more inevitable.
and I really don’t think Frenchy is the best LT solution in RF, but maybe it will really click for him at a later age, like Werth.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/7/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed on FMart needing to perform.
trs86
5/7/2010-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe, if so then he does not have much value to the Mets.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
How can you possibly know how much value to the Mets he has?
You have no way of knowing what his worth is based on him merely not playing CF.
He may play well enough in RF that he is key in getting a player that helps Mets get into playoffs.
Just cause he may not have a spot on our team does not mean he has lil value.
trs86
5/7/2010-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
When I say to the Mets I mean to the team as a player this season or more likely next. Of course he has trade value, we could debate on how much…
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
Yep I would love it if FMart was a 2nd baseman but sadly he is not. I get it. What can you do it is what it is.
That’s baseball.
stickguy
5/7/2010-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
gee, that should be fun!
trs86
5/7/2010-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
NJ he did not play 2B in spring training or a few starts this season in AAA did he?
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
No he didn’t play 2nd but the point still remains. It would be nice if we can fit him where we need him most but maybe he just isn’t a Center Fielder.
trs86
5/7/2010-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
Then why have him there in ST and occasionally in AAA?
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
You really are hung up on this aren’t you?
He played how many games in center again 2?
As far as ST goes I said this below but maybe they just wanted to see what he looked like.
ceetar
5/7/2010-1:38pm at 1:38 pm (UTC -4)
We’ll see on Fmart. I think we may see him in CF if Beltran is down, but right now there is still the possibility that he’ll be back. We’ll know more if he runs.
trs86
5/7/2010-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
Ceetar right now Beltran IS down. There is no reason for Fmart to be playing LF or RF this season IF he can play CF.
ceetar
5/7/2010-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
I meant down the whole season. We’ve got that running date next week. Good, then fine. Bad, even if it’s a minor setback, it’s tiem to reassess the plan for the second half of this year regarding CF.
trs86
5/7/2010-1:58pm at 1:58 pm (UTC -4)
Still if he can play CF what is the point of him not doing it already. Which is more likely right now. Beltran being out long term or Frenchy being benched?
ceetar
5/7/2010-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
The third option is still probably the most likely, Beltran/Pagan being better options for CF and Beltran healthy for 2011.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
If he can play CF is correct.
Maybe the Mets don’t feel he can play Center or maybe they want him to play RF because they don’t see Frenchy here long term.
Whatever the reason he is not in CF and we will just have to wait and see what the outcome is.
trs86
5/7/2010-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
I suspect they do not feel he can play CF. Although they had him there in ST. The kid started the year as the LF so I have no idea what their plans are for him. My point is that it seems the Mets have pushed Fmart to be ready this season and to me if he can play a passable CF until we know what is going on with Beltran that is the position he should be playing.
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
Hey the Mets had Murphy in LF at one point. They make mistakes this we know all too well.
Maybe this is another mistake or maybe this is them fixing a mistake.
In a pinch I guess he can always be thrown in CF but right now they have 2 Centerfielders Pagan and Matthews with Beltran trying to get back.
trs86
5/7/2010-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
Right now if you HAD to predict his future with the Mets do you think he has a long-term role as as a corner OF?
I do not.
Right now do you think there is more need in the organization for him to play CF or corner? I think CF. Obviously if he can not then he can not, but why put him there in ST and occasionally in AAA? If he can play a passable CF then keep him there until Beltran returns. If nothing else doesn’t a CF have more trade value?
Mr North Jersey
5/7/2010-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
Again, the future is a funny thing this season once all is said and done may see a lot of changes once it’s over.
Predicting where i see FMart is like betting on where Minaya will be in a year. Too hard to predict.
ST is all about trying things out I would think if they ever wanted to see him in CF it would be in ST. Maybe they didnt like what they saw and tada now he is a corner outfielder.
The fact is he is not playing CF so all we can do is hope he can be the best RF he can be.
trs86
5/7/2010-2:55pm at 2:55 pm (UTC -4)
He is Pridie’s caddy in CF. LOL
Perhaps they really like Pridie?
trs86
5/7/2010-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
.300 .353 .427 .780 with 9SB and 9 extra base hits?
stickguy
5/7/2010-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
I think that too much is being made out of where he is playing on any given day. He has played a lot of CF, and is certainly capable of doing th ejob. maybe not the pure range you want for a LT option, but he certainly knows how to play the positin.
Same with LF and RF now. Bu moving him around the OF, it gives him a chance to get more comfortable seeing the ball from different angles.
But, other than the need for more speed in CF (and arm in RF), there is not that much of a difference. Plenty of guys move from one to another depending on the need that day. And they do just fine at it.
Say F Mart gets hot and smokes the ball for the next couple of weeks, at which time Pagan goes on the Dl (and also assuming that GM still stinks).
In that scenerio, I got no problem throwing F Mart into CF every day, and expecting him to do an acceptable job.
But, same thing if the DL guy is Frenchy. F Mart should be able to step into RF. Or LF for Bay.
so, very likely, having him play all over is a GOOD thing, and it gives the Mets a lot more felxibility (and makes F mart more valuable I guess)
trs86
5/7/2010-2:59pm at 2:59 pm (UTC -4)
But really he is the RF. It’s not like it’s even at all. He’s played maybe 2 games in CF total.
trs86
5/7/2010-3:00pm at 3:00 pm (UTC -4)
I just still ask IF he can play CF then why the hell is he not doing it right now?
stickguy
5/7/2010-3:05pm at 3:05 pm (UTC -4)
he doesn’t have to, or they have someone else they rather have out there?
I try not to spend too much time trying to figure out the logic of what the Mets do. It gives me a headache.
or maybe, he is what he is, and it doesn’t really matter?
gategem
5/7/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
TRS, is writing this thread one of the twelve steps you are following?
Reminded me of a friend that in an effort to realize item number two tried to join “Over-sexed Anonymous.†He felt it was the best way to meet hot babes that were always giving. Me and my gf (she’s 22 years younger than I am) went out with the friend and one of the girls he met at their meeting and before we are even introduced she asks me how I feel about oral sex. I quickly answered “giving or receiving?â€
trs86
5/7/2010-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
Uhmmm, glad I could remind you of such pleasant memories. LOL
Yeah, I have already put those year behind me. I did last year for sure when I realized how lucky we DID have it in 2006-2008.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/7/2010-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
22 years younger than you? Wow.. you’ve got some skills… hop you are over 40 though.. :p
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/7/2010-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
hope*
ceetar
5/7/2010-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
There is a news-related joke here, that I’m going to leave unsaid.
stickguy
5/7/2010-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
for a change of topic. And to show ow much of a crap shoot putting together a BP can be. From Toby’s MiL blog:
Something awful: Kiko Calero – 0.1 IP, 5 H, 6 R, 6 ER, 0 BB, 0 K. That’s 22 hits and 18 runs allowed in 15 innings this AAA season with eight walks and 14 K. I liked the risk in signing Calero, but right now, he doesn’t appear even close.
Something awesome: John Lujan – 1 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 3 K. Striking out the side is sweet. Lujan pitched himself out of AA with 11 K and 3 BB in 9.1 IP, and he’s not far away from Citi if (rather, when) the Mets need another bullpen arm. The Mets AAA phase rule five pick from the White Sox reportedly has been throwing his fastball 94-96 mph with a low-mid 80s slider. Binghamton manager Tim Teufel called him “aggressive.â€
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/7/2010-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
When are you guys switching to the new site?
trs86
5/7/2010-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
Most likely sometime next week. Gotta get some bugs out first.
ceetar
5/7/2010-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
i make a comment (or 7) on the latest post.
trs86
5/7/2010-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
I saw the duplicate issue. That’s on the list.
ceetar
5/7/2010-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
The log in issue is curious. Somehow it’s trying to log in (sorta kinda successfully?) when you redirect realdirtymets -> to wahtever the fanvfan website is and back.
trs86
5/7/2010-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
I know they have it where you will be logged in on all of their sites when you return. It’s interesting that once you have logged on it very rarely shows you are logged out even when you are.