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Fernando Martinez to Buffalo DL; Valentino Pascucci returns http://bit.ly/9nl8p6less than a minute ago via TweetDeckToby Hydetobyhyde
5/14/2010-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
5/14/2010-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
Make way for the Mets Top Outfield Prospect.
5/14/2010-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
Kirk has made F-art all but an afterthought for CF.
5/14/2010-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
that he has. and the way he is going, if he keeps mashing and starts working a few walks in there, he could end up playing in AAA before F Mart does again!
5/14/2010-1:58pm at 1:58 pm (UTC -4)
eh, who cares. He is only 20 and there are no immediate plans for him. Let him heal up.
5/14/2010-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
You sir get the “Every Cloud Has A Silver Lining Of The Day” Award.
5/14/2010-2:05pm at 2:05 pm (UTC -4)
Besides for the fact that he is more injury prone than Nick Johnson….I guess there is no big deal.
5/14/2010-2:11pm at 2:11 pm (UTC -4)
id rather him get that out of the way now than when he has a full time position up here. Reyes was often hurt early on in his career too. Again to me its not a big deal because he wasnt really an option anymore to come up this year so as the saying goes…out of sight, out of mind.
5/14/2010-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
not really. he just seems to keep getting little strains and stuff like that. Not that uncommon for young guys that are still basically growing into their bodies.
hopefully as he finishes growing, and maybe gets better stretching/care advice, he will get past it, like Reyes did.
5/14/2010-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
Looked kinda like Ollie there.
This from Metsblog
Big Dirty May 14, 2010 at 2:05 pm
we have to wait unitl beltran gets back. We wont know this team potential until carlos is playing and if he is healthy.
While pitching is important, this team needs a bat in the worst way. it needs someone in th middle of the order. A starting pitcher who goes 7 innings is nice but maybe an arm or 2 in the pen and a bat in right would be the solution.
I wonder about baltimore and the availability of a player like Nick markakis? baltimore seems to have depth in the outfield and markais seems to be getting closer to free agency. Maybe a deal can be made for him??
DirtySanchez is there something you want to tell us?
5/14/2010-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
THATS COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!
and there is no way that was me lol…nick markakis…really…does this guy really think baltimore is going to let that guy go?
5/14/2010-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
Clearly, that is not you. Tell me Dirty, do you find that there are sections of your day that you can’t account for?
5/14/2010-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
Speaking of deals when Beltran comes back.
It’s a long article so if you don’t have time to read the whole thing just scroll down to Greinke To The Mets
5/14/2010-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
I didn’t even click the link, but I love it already.
um…no lol. Talk about the kings ransom for a guy that had ONE really good year and several…ok years. Not that anyone expected him to be what he was last year but he does not look that sharp and not to mention his “anxiety” issues, dont want a guy like that playing in NY where they boo their best player. If we are talking about aces, then maybe zambrano(he is crazy enough to thrive over here) but idk what the cubs would want in return
I completely disagree. Zambrano was last an ace in 2007, which was also the last time he threw 200 or more innings. He’s at best big-boned and at worst fat, he turns 29 in a few weeks then has 2 obscene years plus an obscene vesting option left on his contract, and right now he’s not even a starting pitcher.
Zambrano acclimated to pitching in the majors faster than Greinke did, but we don’t get to have Zambrano when he’s 23 so I am not impressed with that. I care more about what they’ve done recently and what Z has done is pitch poorly and lose his job.
I suppose one can say Greinke “doesn’t look sharp” compared to last season’s performance, but he’s pitched quite well this season, better than Z in pretty much every measurable category. His 1.120 WHIP and 2.73 ERA in the AL impress me quite a bit. Plus he’s signed through 2012 cheaper than Z.
5/14/2010-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
you could have stopped at disagree lol
Would you give up those guys for grenike…i wouldnt…
5/14/2010-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
I would give more to get Greinke actually.
5/14/2010-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
I would certainly try to negotiate a lesser package but if at the deadline the Royals said “this or no deal” I’d do it.
Given the FMart keeps getting injured and that Flores is projected to have to move off SS to a “corner position” which makes his potentially very good bat less irreplaceable, and given that the other prospect names we are familiar with will still be here, yes.
5/14/2010-3:04pm at 3:04 pm (UTC -4)
You wouldn’t do FMart, Niese and Flores for Greinke?
5/14/2010-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
Please go back to Grave’s articles on trading propects for stars. I’d do the deal.
Also, how would this package compare to what the Phil’s gave up for Halladay?
And I wasn’t saying you, Kistics, just expounding on your point.
5/14/2010-3:03pm at 3:03 pm (UTC -4)
Well to be fair more recently than the period I covered in that piece acquiring prospects has worked out at a better rate, while it’s still a crapshoot it’s been less of one than prior to 2005 which is when I wrote about.
As long as the player you trade the prospects for does well, to me that’s ultimately more important than “fleecing” the other team by trading them duds.
5/14/2010-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
submit a package of Jonathan Niese (#5 and in the Metsâ€™ rotation right now), the disappointing yet intriguing Fernando Martinez (#3, OF), Wilmer Flores (#2) an 18 year old shortstop with a ton of promise and something else out of their system.
Uh YEAH I would do that, later guys I am going to get the bus.
5/14/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
To go pick up Greinke at the airport? Pick me up on the way.
Seriously though, Greinke would have to show some consistency before I thought about trading F-art or Flores.
5/14/2010-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
F Mart you can do. FLores it’s too early.
5/14/2010-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
It may be too early but if they want him they can have him. We can’t have our cake and eat it too. That guy is a pure stud and would give us an incredible chance to win while this window is still open. Flores does not.
5/14/2010-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
not today but he is part of the future. Problem is while you have johan and grenkie, you still got to deal with pelf/maine and of course ollie.
5/14/2010-2:55pm at 2:55 pm (UTC -4)
Pelfrey as a #3 is fine and I am not worried about Maine as a #4/5. Wouldn’t you rather worry about Perez with Greinke in the rotation than with Neise?
Obviously Flores MIGHT help us in the future but we all need to go back and read Grave’s piece on trading stars for prospects.
5/14/2010-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
Consistency? Greinke? How much more consistent do you want him to be? His ERA has went down every season and was at 2.16 last year. LOL. This year he’s at 2.73.
Also we are talking about Injur-Mart and Flores here.
5/14/2010-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, I’m just being cautious. Like I said pick me up on the way, maybe we could find Ollie and drop him off in Chinatown, he might not find his way out.
well, and Neise and some other unnamed person from the system.
and any time you move from a minors guy to taking an arm out of your rotation, it becomes a much harder deal to do.
5/14/2010-2:50pm at 2:50 pm (UTC -4)
Not for me. It’s damn Zack Greinke. We all want that top of the rotation pitcher, you gotta give to get.
screw the anxiety issues. That’s what shrinks and meds are for!
But, to save time reading, after he discounts the idea of getting mejia, he proposed this package. Think it could happen, and should it?
“submit a package of Jonathan Niese (#5 and in the Metsâ€™ rotation right now), the disappointing yet intriguing Fernando Martinez (#3, OF), Wilmer Flores (#2) an 18 year old shortstop with a ton of promise and something else out of their system”
F Mart, hard to say no to that. But Neise and Flores too? I guess it partly depends on what you think Neise will end up being, but really hard to see FLores going anywhere right now.
I agree. Fmart id have no problem letting go at this point(and every point the last 2 years). I would be open to dealing niese as well but not so sure about flores. Mind you, the real issue is still here and remains and thats ollie. As santana found out last night, you could be stellar but w/o offense you wont get a win.
Thing is with this rotation
Greinke, Santana, Pelfrey, Maine, you can handle having Perez or Taka or even you in the rotation.
Also, Flores is very young and while he has shown the ability to hit we don’t know what position he will play or if he can develop plate discipline. He is still at least 3 years or more away. By that time do we even have anything left to compete with?
5/14/2010-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
theres no way to answer that question as to where we will be 3 years from now. All I know is that flores looks pretty good so far and is a good canidate in the future to replace a position cheaply with production. What position, im not sure but it gives us options.
I agree on dumping fmart. I am open to dealing niese but I really dont wanna move flores. Grenkie is good but at the end of the day if you cant score you cant win. Greinke would be more or less in the same spot he is right now.
5/14/2010-3:05pm at 3:05 pm (UTC -4)
True but again the window with Wright, Reyes, Santana, etc will be closed in my opinion before Flores ever makes an impact. I would move Flores right now before I would Captain Kirk.
5/14/2010-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
wow, you only got 3 more years out of wright and reyes and santana?
5/14/2010-3:10pm at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
Contract wise yeah.
5/14/2010-3:13pm at 3:13 pm (UTC -4)
teams are continually evloving. One window closes, but another one opens up.
They could have an entirely different roster 3 years from now, with none of the current stars on it. And they cold just as easily be a great team as a lousy one.
5/14/2010-3:18pm at 3:18 pm (UTC -4)
Very true but I would think you also would like to win a championship in the next 3 years with Wright, Reyes and Santana.
I’m with Dirty on this. I’d have no problem dealing Niese and FMart for Greinke. But Flores? Dang, leave me someone in the minors to get excited about in a couple of years…
5/14/2010-3:08pm at 3:08 pm (UTC -4)
exactly. While the Mets farmsystem has shown some ability to create good prospects of late, it not like its overflowing with talent. Flores by many accounts can hit, granted its the same that has been said with fmart but flores is a guy that is years away. Who knows what the club will look like. Grenkie is not going to solve our offensive problems. Gotta focus on the problem. Not saying that I wouldnt mind having grenkie but not at the expense of flores as well.
5/14/2010-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
You got Captain Kirk, Familia and others. If you want to get one of the best pitchers in baseball you have to give to get. This is not a Johan Santana situation where he forced a trade to the Mets or even a Doc Holliday trade.
But Flores is 18 and in single A. The dude has RAW talent, but that’s it.
How do you not see the benefit of having Santana and Greinke in your rotation.
5/14/2010-3:22pm at 3:22 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. I know you have to keep prospects but there are not many 18 year olds that are untouchable when trading for a young CY young pitcher.
5/14/2010-3:24pm at 3:24 pm (UTC -4)
I do see the benifit but I also take the name off the jersey and take other things into account. We have a offense issue, big time. Wright does not seem to find it consistantly. Reyes is not doing well this year. Bay is streaky. Our whole offense pretty mcuh is on barajas bat. Even with grenkie, we would need to score to win and im not sure we can do that consistently enough to make a pitcher like grenkie worth it. Not to mention we would sacrifice someone with RAW power that yes is years away but at least gives us a good option from the minors if that future team needs it. My hangup is Flores, I dont mind dumping niese and fmart
5/14/2010-3:29pm at 3:29 pm (UTC -4)
I understand your hang up on Flores but to say it does not matter because we can’t score implies that every night we would be going against Josh Johnson. True we have not scored much period but if you have 2 pitchers that continually hold the other team to 2-3 runs even this team will win most of the time.
5/14/2010-3:30pm at 3:30 pm (UTC -4)
then this will be yet another topic we will agree to disagree.
5/14/2010-3:01pm at 3:01 pm (UTC -4)
Grave I am open to anything to improve the rotation right now but can I ask are you concerned how Greinke would handle the scrutiny of NY when he has suffered in the past from what appears to be a social anxiety disorder and depression?
Yeah but I bet NY has a lot more illegal ways of handling those things. Get him stoned, drunk and laid and he will forget about all of it. Think about guys like Joe D and Mantle both of them had anxiety disorders and depression.
different time, different era. With all the testing that goes on now, no way he can get away with that. Im concerned with the anxiety thing. I mean, it nearly destroyed Dontrelle Willis and frankly, NY fans are unforgiving. These are the same people that boo wright and santana, you bring a kid with a fragile mind to our fan base and that is a bad train wreck waiting to happen.
5/14/2010-3:17pm at 3:17 pm (UTC -4)
I sure would like to find out. Guy is instantly one of the top 3 pitchers in the NL.
5/14/2010-3:21pm at 3:21 pm (UTC -4)
with Roy Halladay currently the 4th best pitcher era wise in the NL, id have a wait and see attitude regarding that.
Come on Dirty, he had a 2.16 ERA in the AL last year and has a 2.73 this year. The guy is one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball period and easily top 3 in the NL.
5/14/2010-3:25pm at 3:25 pm (UTC -4)
again, WHAT DOES IT MATTER IF WE CANNOT SCORE!!!
5/14/2010-3:27pm at 3:27 pm (UTC -4)
Dirty how exactly are we supposed to upgrade those things? 2B? RF? Most of us expect the offense to get better. Bay and Reyes won’t stink forever. How many of us expect to compete with this rotation?
5/14/2010-3:28pm at 3:28 pm (UTC -4)
why do you think they would want to trade grenkie in the first place? We cannot score for Johan Santana. It doesnt that much about the name on the jerzy. Bottom line you need to score more than the other guy to win, that simple. Right now that is our main issue. Our pitching has been fine….for the most part.
the same as the phillies expect to contend with theirs
5/14/2010-3:32pm at 3:32 pm (UTC -4)
Why do they want to trade Greinke? For all we know they don’t, LOL. Based on the article it’s because their team is not very good and has no hope of short-term success.
As for our offense, it’s a problem but I can’t see how adding a Cy young pitcher would not help your team? Hell maybe having 2 guys in the rotation that are #1 type pitchers allows you more to have a bad offense or takes pressure off. You won’t always have 1 vs 1 nor will the Mets always only score 1 run a game.
5/14/2010-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
It’s a worry but by all reports he has this issue under control, has for multiple years, which has led directly to his blossoming as an ace. It’s the depression and anxiety that was preventing his becoming an ace, not his great talent.
I don’t see why whatever treatment is working now would suddenly stop. But sure it’s a risk. So then what? Settle for giving up a lesser package for a lesser pitcher who helps less?
He has a limited no trade clause through this season. I would certainly hope the Mets would investigate that, and if the Mets are one of the teams on it, then he would have demonstrated specifically a lack of desire to come here and then I would stop trying to trade for him.
Agreed he has definitely blossomed since he got it under control. I just know how hard NY can be and wonder if whatever he has done to get himself back would be at risk of failing under the lights of NY.
If the Mets do investigate and feel assured that is not a problem I am all for trying to work a trade out especially since he is under contract through 2012.
5/14/2010-2:40pm at 2:40 pm (UTC -4)
Browsing the FA market for pitchers next year and there is more talent there than I thought. Would be a good year to nab a couple of mid-rotation guys.
Better than the motley crew from this off season? Good. ALthough keep in mind, some (many?) of them never make it to FA.
If Pelfrey can settle down and stay consistant, then they do still have to top end covered. So 1-2 mid rotation guys (let’s say Neise is solid next year, and go with 2) would be a wonderful thing to have.
Just pretend Ollie and Maine don’t exist.
Or better, put them in the mix with the rest of the mid-rotation guys available, and get the best you can. If they are it, fine. If not, they get replaced.
Most of the ones I was looking at will not get locked up IMO.
Already looking ahead?
5/14/2010-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
Bottom line, next year they NEED to get out of that ollie deal. They will not be able to win with him on the roster.
5/14/2010-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
I read the Wilpons are saving 46-ish mill from the maddoff scandal. That should cover just dropping ollie outright, correct?
5/14/2010-2:59pm at 2:59 pm (UTC -4)
if I had the money, ID pay them to dump ollie
I think we’re stuck with Ollie through this year. Next year is anyone’s guess at this point.
I disagree, they have won with him in the past. Up until this week they were winning with him this year. Ollie as a #5 does not hurt us anymore than Kyle Kendrick as a #5.
5/14/2010-3:00pm at 3:00 pm (UTC -4)
except kyle has way more upside than ollie and maybe the intelligence on how to use it. Not to mention kyle is not making 12 million dollars.
the money is irrelevant. I don’t know that he has the intelligence to use it or if that even really matters, and isn’t Kendy their like 3 now?
on that staff probably. The money is very relevent as kyle is a rookie making 480,000 and probably not tying the phillies down payroll wise while ollie is making 12,000,000 for equal production and you can bet is tying down the mets payroll wise. I hope you were kidding that intelligence doesnt matter, as we can see with ollies outings, it sure does matter ALOT.
Kyle is a rookie? Does he know that? He also has a 5.89 ERA instead of 4.50. Your point on Perez tying them down because of money has nothing to do with it. It’s not like if you pay to dump him you are saving any money. That money is already spent. Thus if Ollie is the #5 he is not hurting our rotation any more than Kendrick is theirs.
thing is we have 2 #5 pitchers.
Then tell me this real, who would you rather have on your team
kyle’s 5.89 era @ $480,000
Perez 4.50 era @ $12,000,000
5/14/2010-3:20pm at 3:20 pm (UTC -4)
Considering we already have to pay Perez’s 12M, Perez.
That’s my point, it’s moot. Ollie is not hurting us at the #5 any more than Kendrick. Yeah if we could go back in time and not sign Ollie that would be great. We can’t. He is here and in the 5 spot he is comparable to everyone else. You can’t make that money go away so what does it matter? Phillies are much more locked now financially than the Mets are, if you are saying it impacts the Mets next year more than Kendrick does yeah. But for this year Ollie is not hurting us anymore than Kendrick is hurting the Phillies.
Actually, the Mets have payroll flexibility and the Phillies don’t. Production matters. We’ll see, Ollie hasn’t exactly pitched bad enough that you’d look to replace him with crap from elsewhere.
I don’t nkow how much intelligence matters, and I certainly believe anyone can learn what’s needed to pitch and adjust, with out without smarts. Even Ollie.
its been 5 years of watching ollie…my optimism has gone out the window in regard to him learning whats needed to pitch and adjust.
I think the only reason Kendrick was still in the rotation is b/c Happ is on the DL. They might be stuck with Kendrick a long while this season as I didn’t see where Happ is due to return anytime soon…..
How? No one will take Ollie and his salary with the way he’s playing. Mets will probably need to eat 90% of his salary.
5/14/2010-3:35pm at 3:35 pm (UTC -4)
I agree. He’s only movable if the Mets accept nothing in trade and pay the bulk of his salary. Since I believe that’s the option, I figure might as well keep him around on the off chance he finally gets it. No point in paying the way for that slim chance to happen somewhere else.
And anyway, this team has done nothing but win with him in the rotation as I noted in Gonzo’s “get rid of Ollie” post the other day. He entered the rotation the last 6 weeks of 2006 and the team won (not only all season but while he was in the rotation too), they won in 2007, they won in 2008, they lost last year (and Ollie was on the DL a lot), and as of today they’re winning in 2010.
5/14/2010-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
to be fair they’ve only one 1 of Ollie’s starts, but alot (most) of that’s the offense.
5/14/2010-3:46pm at 3:46 pm (UTC -4)
Well for the record the Mets in Ollie’s starts are:
01-06 – 2010
06-08 – 2009
19-15 – 2008
17-12 – 2007
04-03 – 2006
5/14/2010-3:48pm at 3:48 pm (UTC -4)
And really, 19-15 or so is what I expect from him this year, although they’ve really gotten behind the eight ball already.
5/14/2010-3:49pm at 3:49 pm (UTC -4)
so, 3 games over .500 overall.
this year certainly is dragging them down.
5/14/2010-3:51pm at 3:51 pm (UTC -4)
47-44, that seems more like winning than it does like losing.
I was taking these declarations that “the team can’t win with Ollie” as more of an overall team record thing, I hadn’t thought of it as specifically his starts. But it’s nice to see that while he’s been here they’ve won that way too.
5/14/2010-3:52pm at 3:52 pm (UTC -4)
5/14/2010-3:58pm at 3:58 pm (UTC -4)
The scary thing is so far since he signed his contract the Mets record in Ollie’s starts is 7-14 and the Mets record as a team overall is since he signed 88-109.
That is bound to change though right?
5/14/2010-4:00pm at 4:00 pm (UTC -4)
mostly irrelevant, especially given every start last year was an injury one.
Manuel’s record is crap since he’s been here too.
5/14/2010-4:04pm at 4:04 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps. The latest reason/excuse for his failure was cold and wind. Tonight he won’t have those things working against him (although a source I won’t mention out of respect for Prismo suggests 17mph wind tonight at Sun Life). Supposed to be in the low 80′s though. So tonight might go a long way toward answering your question.
I’m out peeps, LGM!
5/14/2010-4:12pm at 4:12 pm (UTC -4)
I agree its irrelevant just stating facts.
He (A.) was hurt last year and (B.) the Mets record since he signed is not a direct reflection of him as it is how badly the team overall was last year with all the injuries.
But, good old “steady as she goes” Jerry.
Same exact line up as yesterday for tonights game.
I guess we have to have a poll to determine how many non-working days it takes for Jerry to make his move?
I take “he never will, but the guy that replaces him does it on his firts day”
5/14/2010-3:12pm at 3:12 pm (UTC -4)
You have got to be kidding me…
Weekend series – would be the perfect time to me to shake things up.
I’m telling you, if I see Jerry call for Reyes to bunt in that 3rd spot with men on one more time…..
I see FWICG is doing a vote on your projected lineup and he’ll post results later today. That ought to be interesting.
5/14/2010-3:14pm at 3:14 pm (UTC -4)
5/14/2010-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed and MC wants it even worse. Moving Davis to 3rd and Barajas to 5th.
5/14/2010-3:16pm at 3:16 pm (UTC -4)
really? I thought it was Scottish…
it is up. Reyes, pagan, Wright 1-3 as expected. I don’t agree with it after that, but not too far off.
Oh, and of course, 2B hitting 8th.
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