May 16
After Oliver Perez’s last two starts, the Mets decided to put him in the bull pen. The Mets did not ask Perez to accept an assignment to Triple-A Buffalo. However, Perez stated that even if they did, he would not accept it.Â
Today’s question is. What do you think the Mets should do with Perez? How does his refusal to accept an assignment make you feel toward him? Also, what message do you think he sends to his team by stating that?
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32 comments
rustyjr
5/16/2010-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
I am honestly torn because I think that it is possible that Oliver can be the caliber of pitcher we thought he could be – but he is inconsistant and is not mentally tough when a bad call or a error commited from his offense occours – he just melts. it really angered me , but it really didnt surprise me that he said that he wouldn’t accept a minor league assignment if he was asked. I have been saying all along that Ollie wouldn’t accept it – and now here he is a manbanished to the bullpen where he will be used in a mop u role – where he has no chance of improving. lets face it the front office will not eat his $20 million dollar contract and I doubt there is another team foolish enough to trade for him – unless we pick up a great deal of the money owed to him like the angels did with gary matthews jr
koose
5/16/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Problem is Perez is getting 12 mil french fry is getting 5 mil matthews is getting 1 mil that’s 18 mill thrown away not to mention the 20 mil for the never returning beltran combine it and its 38 mil wasted. Omar is in allot of trouble guys. He built this pile of sh-t he has to live with it. That’s why there will be no mid season pick ups. Jerry sucks and couldn’t manage an all star team but omar built it and therefore gotta go sorry to all you omar supporters. Just leave it alone and let it sink.
And don’t think next year will be any better , cause whomever takes over will still have the bad contracts of castillo perez beltran and the great missing puzzle piece of mr bay. We will still need a catcher. a right fielder and 2 starting pitchers next year we are screwed. Thankyou Mr Minaya
johan4cy
5/16/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
I disagree that francouer is a waste, if that’s who you’re referring to as french fry.
Hazmet
5/16/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
What should the Met’s do with Ollie? Well I’ve weighed in during the week jokingly that they should order a Code Red on him this week ala “A Few Good Men” but seeing as this is reality they’re doing the only thing they can do with him which is leave him in the bullpen to either fester or man up and get his “shat” together. Man up in this case may be as straighforward as building up his knee strength through, gasp, exercise & weight training. I know what a novel concept, he supposedly hit it hard in the offseason through Beltran’s urging to get to a “fat farm” in Arizona. Maybe he needs another bootcamp to build it up and this will give him the velocity he’s missing.
How does his refusal to be sent down make me feel? It makes me feel the same way as I did at the beginning of last season when he showed up out of shape. Ollie’s cashed in and checked out. I think if it weren’t for Beltran chiding him to get in shape during the offseason he would have reported not only large but possible large enough to have his on planetary bodies circling him. I feel he’s got his money and he doesn’t care how this play’s out one bit.
What message does his refusal send the team? Remember when Phillips was weighing in on A-Rod back around 2001 and how A-Rod would require special rules and he didn’t want to set up a “24 + 1 scenario”. Well that’s what we have here, sort of. The irony to me is that during recent years it was more set up like a 20+1+1+1+1+1 scenario with the different cliques in the clubhouse. Maybe I’m wrong there but there seemed to be a set of rules for Delgado, another for Reyes, another for Wagner, another for Wright since he had to sit there and say there were not individual sets of rules. Ollie’s witnessed all this so why should he think what’s he’s asking for is perfectly acceptable, and, as a vet he’s entitled to his decision. But, his teammates must be viewing him as selfish.
Sorry for being so long winded.
Hazmet
5/16/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
Last paragraph
*why shouldn’t he feel…
saltygary
5/16/2010-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Your right Hazmet, Ollie just doesn’t care. The fans don’t want him and he got his loot.
metsfan4decades
5/16/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
It’s a hard call.
I don’t believe Ollie thinks I got my money, I don’t care. I’m seeing no evidence of that.
That being said, I don’t believe Ollie really gets just how serious his problem is right now. He’s totally ineffective and the team isn’t going to keep him in the rotation, or put him back there, unless he can be effective.
Right now he’s banished to the BP. I don’t foresee the Mets letting him actually get into a game unless it’s a blowout on either side. So the longer that goes on, maybe the more Ollie gets a chance to think about his ‘I don’t want to go to AAA, that won’t help’ mindset.
Maybe if several weeks go by and he sees the Mets not budging on not trusting him, not letting him back in the rotation, he’ll rethink that decision to go down and work on his mechanics, even if only for 3 weeks. He’s got to take some responsibility on this. The Mets are under no obligation to use him up here, only pay him.
And who knows? This could be Boras’ game to force the Mets to release him thereby letting some other team pick him up with us paying the tab. That’s a big gamble as the reputation Ollie will have if that happens won’t help him get any big contract in 2012 and there’s no guarantee another team is going to magically fix him either.
If Ollie’s replacement pitches well, the longer that goes on, the more I can see Ollie rethinking his stance right now.
metsfan4decades
5/16/2010-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Well, this is interesting. Today’s lineup:
Reyes, Cora, Bay, Carter, Wright, Davis, Pagan, Blanco, Niese
saltygary
5/16/2010-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
WOWWWW. That’s a “I have no F’n idea what to do anymore” lineup if I’ve ever seen one.
rustyjr
5/16/2010-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
Jerrys waving the white flag I suppose
johan4cy
5/16/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
Why is carter bating cleanup? Why, out f all people, pagan being moved way back in the lineup?
stickguy
5/16/2010-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
MF, if it was anyone else but you posting it, I would say stop yanking our chains.
Well, maybe I was right earlier on when I (half jokingly) said that Jerry knew he was not getting renewed, so he was trying to get fired quickly so he could have a paid summer vacation!
LIne up is interesting though. Just need to flip spots between cora and pagan, wright and bay, and davis and carter.
Carter clean up? Not Davis? All I can fiugre is that since carter is 4 years older, he shold be “mature” enough to handle it? It is a message to frenchy?
or more likely, Jerry is a freakin lunatic.
and frankly, the spot that bothers me most is Cora, the worst hitter in the lineup, hittin gin the 2 hole.
metsfan4decades
5/16/2010-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
LOL – I know sarcasm doesn’t often translate well across the blog but sadly, I’m not joking about that lineup.
Well, we all asked for change, didn’t we?
And you’re right, I’m not getting the mindset of Carter batting cleanup and Cora, not Pagan batting 2nd….
whataputz
5/16/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
I think Jerry is starting to see the white light and is going towards it batting Carter clean-up.
njstuckintx
5/16/2010-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
That big white light is a train coming down the incompetent track.
saltygary
5/16/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Monday morning QB it is still hard to bash Omar for this signing. I was for it at the time and I don’t believe the complete disaster that Ollie turned out to be was possible. He was always Jekyll and Hyde but what was available that offseason and the money a .500 pitcher like Lowe was commanding Omar took the devil we knew instead of the one we didn’t. Ollie had the ability to pitch some meaningful games and it was the less meaningful ones where his lack of focus and motivation got to him.
Now there is a heaping plate of crow to eat. Regardless of Ollie’s comments there is no AAA move. With the money he is getting they will try and salvage him through the bullpen or get rid of him. I would be shocked if he is still with the team by the end of the season.
stickguy
5/16/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
I agree about the hindsight issue. I was not for it at the time, but moslty beause I thought he was overpriced, and I wanted to grab the compensation picks and try to sign Wolf. Less money, better itcher, more picks, Papa Johns.
but when they did sign him, I saw why Omar did it, and never, ever expected it to be this bad almost 1/2 way through the deal.
just be thankful Boras didn’t go with the 4 year proposal!
njstuckintx
5/16/2010-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
I liked that they signed Perez at the time, just not for the money. Once Lowe signed, who else wanted Perez? Met’s were basically battling against no one to sign him.
stickguy
5/16/2010-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
To answer the sunday question, they should wish him into the cornfield.
but, if that can’t happen, for now the pen is probably the best option. Maybe it is selfish to refuse to go down, but he obviously does not feel it is necessary or will help, and I suspect that the vast majority of ML vet pitchers (that have the option) would also refuse. You very rarely see anyone do it, right?
And I do think that just about every player, most of the time, is about themselves (their career) 1st, and team 2nd (and some, not even that high).
remember, fans root for the laundry, but players are basically independant contractors or mercenaries that happen to wear it for a while.
But, I said yesterday, and still think it can happen, that Ollie might be OK for now out in the pen. He will get more side work and tutoring to work on “fixing” the problem, and if he only has to go a few innings at a time, he might be able to focus and/or grip it and rip it a little better, not having to pace himself.
I am more worried if they just move Taka from the pen to the rotation, leaving the pen weaker. If they make a couple of moves to get a AAA SP up instead, having ollie effectively just replace the current mop up man, then it hopefully won’t be too damaging.
so, I want to see some corresponding moves. Say, Acosta and mejia down, Dickey and Iggy up (or whichever other SP they decide on if it isn’t dickey).
metsfan4decades
5/16/2010-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
Good points. I think removing a pitcher from the starting rotation is far more serious and complicated than most fans believe. Especially one with essentiall 2 more years on his contract and owed 24 Mil.
Acosta hasn’t been bad but if we’re losing Taka to the rotation (and how weird is that statement ‘losing to the rotation’?), then we need another effective long man up here and Ollie isn’t it, nor is Mejia at this point. Dickey, going by stats, has been effective as anyone down there, probably the best of the bunch.
And I’m serious in the statement I’ve been making the past couple of days: we should have kept Livan….
stickguy
5/16/2010-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
well, maybe for the first half.
If you want something totally out of the box, they should have brought Livan back for the first half, and signed Pedro to take over somewhere around the ASB, maybe the trade deadline.
whataputz
5/16/2010-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
I’ve got it! Lock Maine and Ollie (whats the difference?)in a steel cage and let them brawl to death for the 5 spot. I think this way you will see who wants it more, and I think now the message will really be clear to the winner.
GravediggerHebner
5/16/2010-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
Going into the season I thought the Mets were roughly a .500 team give or take a handful of games either way (and if that handful of games happened to go the Mets way I didn’t consider them a post-season team anyway) and I thought the pitching staff was the obvious weak link, starters after Johan more so than relievers but I didn’t like the staff overall regardless.
So now after 37 games the Mets are 1 game under .500 and the pitching overall has been better than I imagined it would be. But it has been inconsistent. When the hitters, who I thought would be a team strength and they just haven’t been, actually hit the pitchers put out a poor performance. As Gategem and others have noted, this is a typical behavior of a mediocre, approximately .500 team. Periodically brilliant, periodically frustrating and ineffective.
The Mets team ERA is 5th in the NL right now. I did not expect that, I am pleasantly surprised. But, it belies the fact that the team is tied for 11th (with the Nats) in the NL in quality starts with 16. 16 in 37 games is 43%, not good. The Cards lead the NL with 30 QS in 36 games. So while the pitching staff in some ways appears to be doing fairly well, it’s a mirage. The starters don’t give quality starts, they don’t go deep in games, and they tax an overachieving bullpen.
I apologize but I’m taking the long route (as usual) and setting the scene for my answers to the Sunday Question(s).
What should the Mets do with Ollie Perez? It’s my view that they have roughly $20 million still to pay him that they are not in any way getting out of. He’s “on their tab” and he ain’t coming off. It’s also my view that this 2010 Mets team is not a serious post-season contender. I’m not saying it can’t or won’t happen, I just believe it’s unlikely. Ollie has not been good, but it’s not him that’s holding a great team back because the Mets aren’t great with or without him. He is one of many inconsistent performers on an inconsistent team. So I see no reason for the Mets to go the “sunk cost” route and just cut Ollie, or trade him while paying the receiving team a large portion of his salary.
He is not an anchor keeping the Mets balloon grounded so why pay someone else to try and figure him out? I believe the bullpen for now is the only move, get with him in some non-game bullpen situations and try and figure out how to get him less horribly ineffective, then get him back into the rotation and reap whatever small benefits there are from that process, and ride out the contract. If he just continues to suck I don’t think it matters much this season, and next season when I believe strongly the Mets will have a better overall team with a better chance of contending Ollie will have only 1 year remaining on his contract and is much more easily cast aside if he proves to be the anchor to the what I perceive will be a much loftier Mets balloon.
How does his refusal make me feel toward him? It doesn’t really alter my feelings toward him. As a professional athlete at the pinnacle of his profession I assume he has a rather large ego. It takes a lot of self confidence to rise to the major leagues and stay there and while I don’t know him personally I have to imagine he thinks rather highly of himself. In that context I understand very well how he feels the minors are beneath him, and given the rules of the game he has and has exercised his right to refuse an assignment.
It’s not a coincidence that there is only one example of this phenomenon that anyone can point to, Steve Trachsel, almost a decade ago. There are probably a handful of others that I’m just unaware of but the fact remains it’s a rarity so I don’t have any expectations of Ollie to just do what I might want him to and go down, it’s virtually unprecedented and it isn’t required by rule. So I bear him no ill will for his refusal.
What message does he send to the team? I’m not privy to the locker room so I can only guess, but I am going to guess that his fellow union members who worked with the league to establish the system which allows him to refuse the assignment don’t have any problem with it, because I doubt very much any of them would be excited to do it either.
Anyone who actually read all that, thanks for your indulgence and take the rest of the day off, it’s nice outside!
stickguy
5/16/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
excellent comment. And to think, this wasn’t even a post, although it was better written than the cast majority of what appears on other sites! ANd on all the question issues, looks like we agree.
Also, keep in mind his history. This is not a case of a solid, reliable guy just losing either his “stuff” or his ability to get anoyone out.
Ollie over his career has had other horrible stretches where he looks like crapola. But, he has then followed them with other reasonably long stretches of pitching somewhere between good and OK (if not very good or more).
So, the precedant is there for him to rebound. My biggest concern is that, unless they find his missing FB (the 3 MPH + the life on it), he may not have the stuff to support a bounceback.
metsfan4decades
5/16/2010-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Interesting analysis.
My only comment is while many might not have thought this team much more than .500 going in, the recent struggles that have them at .500 or less is not the reasons I think anyone would have foreseen.
I’m willing to bet many thought the weakness was the SP and to an extent the BP.
Turns out the BP has been the only bright spot so far. The offense has been well below what I think any of us thought it would be.
So….if the offense across the board was not struggling this bad, and the BP stepping up the way it’s been, I think we’d be better than .500 even with the SP problems – which I happen to agree with. None of them, Johan included, have pitched all that great up till now.
stickguy
5/16/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
well, if you want to take the rose colored glasses perspective, they are 1 game under .500 with a crazy amount of guys, still in their prime, underperforming expectations.
so, it is very reasonable to assume that at some point, many if not all of them will have a hot stretch, and eventually settle closer to “normal” And when (if?) that happens, they should win a lot more games.
This especially goes for the offense. No way this talent can stay this bad. And even if the pitching stays roughly the same, even career normal production from this lineup should be worth close to 90 wins.
whataputz
5/16/2010-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
Read it all and I agree with almost everything you said. I think he owes it to his teammates to except minor league assignment. Him and Maine single handedly destroy the bullpen. With that said, I agree that there isn’t a need to flat-out drop him, YET. Yet is the key word here. If we can get hot 1 more time and can get a healthy Beltran back with a reachable Wild Card, I think (not sayin it will happen), but after the last 3 years, if we are in contention we deserve another pitcher via trade, and if that can happen, coupled with a healthy Beltran, then it might be time to cut Ollie.
This team is so confusing/intriguing. Bay has been off this year, and so has Wright for a great portion, Frenchy might as well have been a pitcher since April 17th, Johan’s been ok, but has been spotty, K-Rod has been off, Reyes has been terrible, pretty much all of our top players have at the very best underperformed, with he exception of Pelf, yet we are a game away from .500 and were above that mark for most of the season. Also keep in mind we’ve pretty much had 3 starters the entire year.
With all that said, I think we win about 78 games this season.
stickguy
5/16/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with everything you said (I suppose I should, since I said pretty much the same ting just above!), except for your conclusion. I think they end up closer to 88 than 78 wins.
I think this year will be the opposite of 2008. Instead of starting out super hot than leveling off, I think they will scuffle along at .500 for a couple of months, then pull a rockies and take off in the 2nd half. Just to try something different!
oh, and hopefully they do it with the new-manager bounce.
njstuckintx
5/16/2010-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
What’s 162 divided by 2? that’s my prediction.
Mr North Jersey
5/16/2010-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
LoL, “taking the long route”.
Grave at this point do you think that the Mets have a clue what is wrong with Ollie?
In many respects this demotions is like a waving the white flag saying, “We give up! We tried all we know and we don’t know what to do with Ollie so we will bury him in the pen till we figure out what to do with him.”
I agree Mets are on the hook with Ollie’s remaining contract. I said this before but I think it is worth mentioning again. The concern will come this off season if it comes out that the Mets won’t go after a pitcher of Cliff Lee’s caliber until they can get someone to take on Ollie’s salary. That really concerns me.
stickguy
5/16/2010-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
NJ, depending onhow this season plays out, there is going to be a whole lot going on this off season, with ollie only being a relatively small part of it. But somehow, I see a good SP being imported, even with Ollie’s contract.
stickguy
5/16/2010-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
changing topics, II think Frenchy must be delusional. I saw elsewhere that he just seems to think he is in a little funk, and just needs to work his way out. He even said he had a good 1st month, then just a couple bad weeks.
Well, in response, someone posted his stats for the year. He actually had a good 10 game start (way, way above any career norms). but in the 27 games since, he has an OBP and slugging that are both in the .180 range, giving him an OPS of about ~.360, with about 25Ks and 3 walks. That my friends is hard to do, even for a pitcher. and 27 games is not an insignificant #, since it is exactly 1/6 of the season.
I would be really scared to know what his splits look like!