So the Mets are now 3 games below .500 and some things are obvious. The entire coaching staff has to go, maybe not Hale or Jauss but everyone else has to be on the first train out. However, as one of our authors will tell you frequently, changing managers does not always equal success. You will also read another author’s opinion that changing hitting and pitching coaches is just for sacrifice. While I do think that replacing the three evils of the Mets dugout would be beneficial that is not all it will take.
So today, I ask our valued readers what CAN the Mets do to save this season? Is it lineups? Is it rotation? Bullpen moves? Trades? Are there players in the minors that need to be up? While the season is still early a famous manager once said “It’s getting late early…”. As we spiral towards Memorial Day one can’t help but think that after the next 7 games the Mets will be heading to Milwaukee  10 games back in the standings and 8 games below .500.
Change has to come and come quickly for those of us who still have hope for this season.
165 comments
rustyjr
5/20/2010-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
I stil have plenty of hope & I haven’t given up – yet I am disheartened by the past month of futility
metsfan4decades
5/20/2010-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
My sentiments exactly.
stickguy
5/20/2010-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
getting rid of the manager and coaches needs to happen 1st. always does. Even if it is partly a sacrifice, it does appease the fans, and takes a load off the teams collective shoulders.
PLus, in this case (unlike many others), it should lead to a tangible improvememnt, since Jerry seems to be the master of the bone headed move.
So, getting Melvin and some new voices in is step 1. Might be putting a bandage on the wound, but if you don’t stop the bleeding, the patient dies before you can get him into surgery.
What else to do? Well, there are not that many possible moves with the currently available players. but, I start with:
1) wishing GM into the cornfield. Bring up Feliciano. You can never have too many felicianos.
2) send Mejia down. Bring up Iggy.
3) put ollie back in the rotation. I know, sounds odd, but with Misch out, I would rather Ollie with Taka in the pen. Still probably better overall than taka starting, ollie in the pen.
Plan 3B- if Ollie continues to be this bad, make him go away too. But he gets another shot at the rotation 1st.
4) Platoon Frenchy. Minimize his ABs against RHP, and make him a 4th OF. Gotta be Carter now. If he ever stayed helahty and productive, F Mart could take over tht role. But, for now, Carter (and keep tutoring the hell out of him in the OF)
5) settle on the line up and let it ride. I personally like Castillo/cora in the 8 hole, and it is my list, so I deem it to be so.
Reyes/pagan/wright/davis/bay/carter-barajas/barajas-frenchy/2B du jour.
6) The underacheiving talent needs to get their shat together and start hitting. No need to name names here! But, at least with new leaders, clearly defined line up and roles, there shoul dbe less distractions!
7) above and beyond in house shuffling, find at least 1 if not 2 outside SP options (preferably one that can go to AAA, or maybe the pen). So, sign Maya ASAP. and try to trade for a salary dump. Myers if available would be great, as would millwood, but don’t panic trade one of the core prospects for it.
8) and keep an ear to the ground to see if they could get an upgrade for 2B or RF, again probably on a salary move most likely, but an actual talent for LT talent deal would be fine too (no idea who of course, but keep looking!)
metsfan4decades
5/20/2010-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
Good points, I agree with most although I don’t see us acquiring anything for RF or 2nd base this year.
#3 ‘with Misch out’? What does that mean? Is Misch hurt?
trs86
5/20/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
I missed that too.
njstuckintx
5/20/2010-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
Kaz Matsui is available! I jest…
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Ha! and move Reyes to play 2B?
stickguy
5/20/2010-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Misch, Neise, tomato tomatoe.
metsfan4decades
5/20/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Ah….thanks.
ceetar
5/20/2010-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
I don’t Ollie will be that bad, but he needs to work on some things too. Not sure just flinging him back into the rotation is the answer. Someone needs to get him working on some tricks to get guys out when he’s struggling, even if that’s just “pump fastballs in” or something.
Anyway, ditch the coaches. It’s not working, and they do have value or they wouldn’t be getting paid. It also sends a message to the players taht it’s not working, work harder. try something else. And it’ll help put the best team on the field every day.
Guys are underperforming, and how to get them to figure it out is beyond me. Maybe we really do need to sit Reyes down for 3 days. Get him a little more comfortable before throwing him back at game speed.
Omar will swing something for someone later one, but the Mets haven’t been out of very many games, and if their offense was performing, they’d be leading the division, easy.
I know you don’t like Castillo, but tehre isn’t really a major upgrade out there for 2B, the real upgrades are tied up (like Utley, Cano, those types of guys). Castillo is perfectly servicable, and it’d be a marginal upgrade. RF is another story, but gotta give Beltran another week or two to see if we’re going on without him for sure. Beltran back and Pagan gets RF time. But the real thing is, why think outside offense is going to help? Woudln’t they just come here and stink at Mets levels like Bay? it’s not like these guys suck.
Bottom line is the Mets have the talent, and they need to get someone in here that will utilize it better.
trs86
5/20/2010-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
I agree that there will be no offensive upgrades.
As for Omar trading for someone? It will have to come quick Ceetar. We are already 6 games out and could easily be 10 games by Memorial Day.
ceetar
5/20/2010-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
Now now, as I’ve said, the Phillies aren’t good enough to run away with it. But yeah, if they play like crap against them…
but even bad teams don’t play sub .250..so ..stop it!
if the Mets got another solid pitcher and the offense woke up It wouldnt’ be out of the question for the Mets to go on a crazy tear. and most of the rest of the Phillies games are near the end of the season (the other 12) so if the Mets were to ‘right’ themselves and if you pretend they can win those series, 8-4, that’s really not that far out.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
I like Pagan at RF when Beltran comes back. He deserves to play everyday.
trs86
5/20/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Most likely right. Still not sure Beltran plays CF if he comes back, at least this season.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
You think he plays RF?
trs86
5/20/2010-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
Very possible. One of the beat guys mentioned it.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know how Beltran would feel about that. He’s already not very happy with the team.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
no chance Beltran plays RF…
trs86
5/20/2010-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
Most likely not. I could just see them sliding Pagan over a little .
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
And moving him to RF would lower his value for FA/Trade market. I bet Beltran and Boras would be all over Omar’s rear end if the Mets move him to RF.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
Only for this season DND.
But that being said they would most likely just shade Pagan over a little to help him in CF.
stickguy
5/20/2010-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
oh, another random thought about hitting coaches and Hojo I posted elsewhere:
teams are billion $$ businesses these days.
coaches are cheap.
Why can’t they have a couple of guys? maybe 1-2 for mechanical stuff to work with players on swings (like swing doctors in golf). and someone to just concentrate on studying opposing pitchers, and developing the game plan of attack.
Then have an organizational director of hitting (some teams already have this for pitching) to make sure all teaching in the system is consistant and accountable.
trs86
5/20/2010-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
Well they do have a roving minor league instructor I think. But honestly do we want more voices in these guys head?
ceetar
5/20/2010-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
i’m willing to be they’ve got too many voices. How about clean house and bring in one guy that’s the “Guru” and is the only hitting advice they’re allowed to take? or pitching advice. This worked with Ollie, these days I bet he’s hearing it from 18 guys, trying to work in Koufax’s advice from the Spring, and trying to figure it out himself as well.
udontmesswthejohan
5/20/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Too many cooks in the kitchen.
trs86
5/20/2010-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
I think obviously the first step is the managers/coaches. You gotta choose right and bring in someone who wreaks of confidence.
Second you have to look at the market and bring in a pitcher. Houston is dripping with guys that could help and they are incredibly bad. Myers would be a good option but I am not sure the Mets go there. I still think that Oswalt could be had without giving up any of our close to off the list prospects. Would I give guys like Fmart, Murphy, Evans, Holt for him? Yeah. He’s not my favorite pick but he is a guy that would be a stable force the rotation for at least 2 years (baring the inevitable Mets injury of course)
Third you have to take the gamble on Maya. The Mets can’t afford to let another SP option slide by.
As for the lineup, I really don’t think moving Castillo to 8th or platooning Frenchy and Carter will make a significant difference at all. My only hope is that the big guns are refreshed by a new voice or determined to right the ship.
udontmesswthejohan
5/20/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
I think you raise a good point regarding the manager. I think we are all in agreement that Jerry needs to go, along with unfortuntely Hojo. But, Bob Melvin is not the answer. I honestly don’t know much about the guy, but that is not going to inspire the team or the fan base. This team needs a Bobby Valentine type to pull them out of their funk. I know we will go back and forth on this, but that is what they need. A guy who has won before and will instill a little cockiness into the team.
Bob Melvin? I mean really, in NY after everything that has happened over the course of the last three years, they are going to bring in Bob Melvin?
trs86
5/20/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
While that may be true, comments from BV yesterday and the fact that it’s mid-season have just about excluded BV. Why not Davey Johnson? He is being considered for the O’s if they fire theirs.
rustyjr
5/20/2010-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
I read somewhere that davey is quite happy working for MLB & managing the Olympic team
udontmesswthejohan
5/20/2010-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
Well, Valentine’s mouth, as we know, can sometimes be his worst enemy. That said, I think they may be able to put their differences aside to do business and make it work for 3 years or so before firing him again. Point is, I think he is cognisant of the fact that Jerry hasn’t been fired yet and since he has a platform on ESPN, he has to go above and beyond in denying his interest.
As far as Johnson, well I know he’s been looking to get back into baseball for sometime. He’s been Team USA manager for the last couple of years (WBC and Olympics), but you have to consider whether the major league game ahs passed him by. On the other hand, you had Jack McKeon in 2003 with the Marlins so who knows.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
I heard that if you fire a manager in mid season, it’s very hard to hire one from outside simply because of all the interview process that the Mets need to follow. Otherwise they have to pay pretty big penalty.
trs86
5/20/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
Yup.
njstuckintx
5/20/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
Houston is definitely going to start selling. Just remember, they are not looking for talent down the road. They need major league ready stuff and a lot of it at almost every position. Murphy would be a good fit for them, as I would guess Berkman would be dealt. If they clean house, I would guess that Myers, Oswalt, Berkman and possibly Wandy would be moved. They aren’t moving Bourne, and I can’t see them moving Pence. They’d love to move Lee, but no one is taking that 450 lb. elephant without a huge salary relief, and I can’t see them doing a GMJ on Lee.
And as for Oswalt, I’m not sure he would want to go to NY, but considering the alt. of playing on that Houston team, I’m sure he’d consider playing for the Antartic Seal Killers if he could. There are seals in the Antartic, right?
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
with or without Oswalt this is not a playoff team. Keep the prospects and sign Lee in the offseason.
trs86
5/20/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
LOL, then why are you reading this post?
“For Those Of You That Think This Season Is Lost, This Post Is Not For You”
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
b/c everyone here deep down knows that this team is most likely missing the playoffs. Considering we would need basically a complete 180, i think its a better plan to prepare for next season then trying to salvage this team.
trs86
5/20/2010-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
Then I can have an author design a post that says:
“For those of you that have hope, this post is not for you”
LOL
The premise is that IF you do believe the Mets have a chance this year what can be done. You do not believe that so…. This post is not for you
njstuckintx
5/20/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
I dunno about that. Sliding Pelf/Niese/Maine back from 2-3-4 into the 3-4-5 spots would be a boost. And Oswalt has been lights out this year. Santana/Oswalt as a 1-2 would do a lot to push this team at least on the door of the playoffs.
I’d be more worried about Oswalt’s salary down the line. But even so, I’d still do it. Murphy, Tejada, Holt, + something down lower would prob. be a good start. prob have to include f-mart. (this said by someone who has no skills at estimating trade values).
trs86
5/20/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
His down the line is not that bad: 10:$15M, 11:$16M, 12:$16M club option ($2M buyout)
It’s not like the Mets would be able to get a pitcher of that quality for basically 18M on a one year deal next year.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. Lee would demand at least 18M per 5 years. Oswalt’s contract is shorter and cheaper. Lee is younger and maybe a better pitcher, but Oswalt isn’t too bad either.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
so what if the Mets trade the farm for Oswalt and we miss the playoffs anyway?
What do u do this offseason?
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Same thing that you would do if you miss the playoffs every other season. Try to look for holes and fill them up.
Having Oswalt gives you better chance in making the playoff this season and maybe next. What current prospects in the Mets farm system will have that much impact on the team this season and next? Mejia? I still think he’s at least a year a way from being a major league SP. And even if Mejia starts in the majors, do you think he’ll give you Oswalt’s numbers from the get go?
I’m not saying the Mets should trade away Mejia, but outside of Mejia, I’d make everyone available for Oswalt including Niese.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Well for one you would not have to go out and get into a bidding war for Lee. You would actually have MORE money to fill other holes than you would if you signed Lee.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
and what if thats not enough? I would keep all those prospects, sign Lee (who is better) and keep the 1st round pick you would give up b/c we won 74 games instead of 84.
trs86
5/20/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
what 1st round pick? We would lose a 1st round pick for signing Lee.
You have to think about long term finances too. Lee will cost much more than Oswalt and have many more years on the contract.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
if we are in the bottom half of the league dont we keep our pick for signing a type A?
trs86
5/20/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
But what 1st round pick are we losing for trading for Oswalt?
Wouldn’t we then get to keep our pick?
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
but u lose our top prospects.
Id rather spend more money on Lee and have Holt and F-Mart and Tejada etc. then trade them for Oswalt
trs86
5/20/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Again then you become financially committed to a 32 year old pitcher for 5 years at 20 million a season.
njstuckintx
5/20/2010-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
What if, what if, what if…
There is no sure thing. You do what sets the team up the best and go with it from there. If you are so hell bent on Lee, trade for him now. Would Lee help more than Oswalt? Marginally at best, and’s going to cost a heck of a lot more prospects wise and is not under control the next year. You can say, go sign Lee but What If he goes elsewhere? What if, what if, what if…
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
b/c this team is garbage. Reyes and Wright are a mess, Bay has 1 HR, we have a bullpen that is so overworked it wont make it to the all star break. We have a bad manager, 2 reliable SP, 1 injured rookie, and 2 black holes in Ollie and Maine.
I dont see how Oswalt or Lee is enough to get this team in the playoffs. Sure it might make us over .500 but it wont give us 90+ wins
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
But you gotta remember that the Mets are only 3 games under .500. It’s still early in the season to bounce back and catchup.
Mets went from last place to first place in 10 days. So, what makes you think it can’t happen again especially if you add in a premiere pitcher?
Johan and Pelf has kept the team in the game. It’s the offense that could not score and I think it’s just not being used all that great by the manager and/or coaching staff.
njstuckintx
5/20/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
I just can’t go down Debbie Downer Lane on this one with you. Adding an Oswalt type solidfys the rotation. There isn’t 1 team that is solid 1-5, and I’m confident in Santana, oswalt, pelf, niese (get well soon) would be a solid 4. Heck, go for both and get Myers too. The offense needs to come around and I think it will (with a cleaning of the management and coaches). Will barajas cool off? yeah. Will Wright/reyes heat up, yeah. Will bay hit more than 1 HR. Yeah. It’s going to happen. Solidifying that SP is goal #1 and that will trickle down to helping the BP. I think the Mets definitely need help, but I’m not believing for a minute that this team is going to end up 70-92. If they brought in SP help of Oswalt’s type, it would be closer to the opposite of that.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
we are only 3 games under b/c of Santana, Pelfrey, Bajaras and the bullpen with the latter two I expect to fade down the stretch
njstuckintx
5/20/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
And you don’t expect those that have been in a bad stretch not to get hot at some point?
trs86
5/20/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
You could look at that in the reverse but that’s not your style.
The Mets are 3 games below .500 and 3 wins behind the WC winner with almost every player on the team UNDER-PERFORMING. Make a few changes and those players return to their norms and why couldn’t we compete??? Nah, it’s more fun to say “this team is garbage”.
Again, with comments like that why did you comment on this post? It’s obviously not for you.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
no i do not. I’m being realistic. sure Santana, Oswalt, Pelf would be great but then you have Dickey/Takahashi and Maine with a bullpen that is fading and overworked, a bad manager, and your 3 top hitters are doing terrible.
Its a move of desperation and I dont like it. If they want to trade for him in the offseason then thats one thing but I’m not trading the farm (which we finally have) for a move that might not be enough
trs86
5/20/2010-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Again for those things that you mentioned and the fact the Mets are still in the race doesn’t that show you there is enough talent?
Do you honestly think the offense will continue at this pace? Also the BP has been without one of it’s better pitchers in Iggy and adding Oswalt may allow you to move Taka back in.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
What farm? Outside of Mejia and maybe Flores, do you consider any other prospects untouchable? Not me.
trs86
5/20/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
While it has been rebuilt and there is talent in it, the great thing is that there is now more depth allowing us to lose some of them.
Honestly is losing Fmart that big of a deal?
trs86
5/20/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
By the way, Ages on Lee and Oswalt:
Lee:August 30, 1978
Oswalt: Born: August 29, 1977
Lee is one year younger.
Also before you for sure say Lee is better, take a look at his stats last season. He is very good and got incredibly hot down the stretch but his numbers are not clearly better than Oswalt.
In a bubble if I could pick one for my team for one yearI would pick Lee. However, considering how much Lee will cost and how many years it will be (for a 32 year old) I take Oswalt and try and compete this year and next year. Look if the Mets don’t do something this year or next it’s not gonna matter that they have Lee in 2012.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. Didn’t I make this point like last week on Oswalt?
trs86
5/20/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Maybe, at that point I did not think it was an option but I truly do now.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
I disagree with that. Offensively this team has good enough talent to be a playoff team. It’s just not utilized to its maximum by the coaching staff.
If Oswalt joins the team this team is definitely a playoff team. With 1-2-3 made of Johan, Oswalt, and Pelf is pretty good.
trs86
5/20/2010-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
Heyman says Manuel wanted to bring back Rick Down to be the team’s hitting coach, in place of Howard Johnson, because Jose Reyes did so well under Down from 2005 to 2007, ‘but the request was rejected by higher ups.’
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
Ive wanted the Mets to do that for the past year and a half. Once Down left, it went downhill from there.
they mentioned Piazza on SNY (i think Schein) and I would be all for that. Not sure if he’d want that though
trs86
5/20/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
I think Piazza is a terrible idea. By most accounts he was not a student of hitting and does not seem to have that fire the Mets need right now. Besides I can’t see him being interested. I would just as soon to bring Strawberry in to be hitting coach before Piazza.
Mr North Jersey
5/20/2010-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
and look at how badly Reyes did in 2008
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
I would fire HoJo, Manuel, Shines and I would accept the fact that this is not a playoff team.
They need to fire Minaya, whose Hope and Pray method regarding upgrading the rotation has severely set this team back. While he has done a great job with bringing in Santana and signing young latin kids, he waits too long to make changes and 1 playoff appearance in his tenure is not enough for a team with a top 5 payroll.
I would hire a GM who actually has a plan and will actually upgrade the rotation. This team needs to be built around Pitching speed and defense and I would not address the lineup at all this offseason. Pitching Pitching Pitching and more pitching.
I would get rid of Castillo (doesnt make sense to play him anymore) , Matthews Jr., Ollie, and send Mejia down. I would bring up Tejada and play him everyday at 2B, Jesus Feliciano to replace Matthews Jr. and Dessens and Igarashi to take those 2 spots.
trs86
5/20/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
I think Minaya gets a pass for 2 reasons. They were not going to just dump Maine and Perez, they looked into the terrible SP market and refused to overpay for garbage. The minors are looking much better and it seems he is learning from past mistakes and they are being a little more proactive in fixing mistakes.
I am sure next year we will see no more Ollie and no more Maine.
But as for your other suggestions, you are not playing by the rules… This post is for the blind “cool”-aid drinkers like me that refuse to give up on a season before Memorial Day.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
just b/c the FA market was bad doesn’t mean he couldn’t have made a trade. The problem is he truly believed Ollie and Maine could be 15 game winners this year if they figured it all out.
He needs to go
trs86
5/20/2010-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
I think the problem is that he had loyalty to Maine because he was working hard to come back from injury. I am sure they felt stuck with Ollie and there is no way that Omar could just cut him before the season even started. They had to give him a shot.
As for trades, yeah lets criticize him for things we don’t even know existed.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
if the Mets were looking to improve the rotation, it would have been reported by all the beat writers.
What I wanted them to do was acquire a guy like Garland through FA or through a trade and put Niese in AAA b/c I knew Ollie was going to suck and I suspected Maine was not gonna come through. That way you are still in decent shape…
trs86
5/20/2010-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
Did you not read? It WAS reported by all the beat writers.
Including offers MADE to Lackey and Pineiro.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
which proves that Omar felt Maine and Ollie were going to be better than anyone else available…(except those 2)
he passed on everyone else…
trs86
5/20/2010-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
I thought you said there was no interest at all?
LOL
Now you are back tracking. How do you know they were not interested in Garland and he said nope headed out west? They were interested in Wolf for sure but were not going to go 3/30+ for a guy like Wolf.
If anything, as bad and Maine and Perez are, Omar should be praised for learning his lesson and NOT overpaying mediocre or worse pitchers.
udontmesswthejohan
5/20/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
“…I would accept the fact that this is not a playoff team.”
I think you have to give this serious consideration. No need to sell off the farm in a desperate, and ultimately futile attempt to make the playoffs (See 2004).
I’d agree with you re: Omar more if it weren’t for the fact that he clearly had his hands tied finacially this off season and that affected his ability to shore up the rotation. That said, you can still make a decent argument that after his second manager it might be time for him to hit the road as well.
Honestly, at this point I don’t care. I’m just tired of watching this team under achieve 3, 4, and 5 times a week.
trs86
5/20/2010-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
I still debate the point on SP. Look how those options are performing. Almost to the letter they are all under-performing except Garland who was never a serious candidate for an East Coast team anyway.
udontmesswthejohan
5/20/2010-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, the difference is that those guys are all pitching against type for the most part while Ollie and Maine are doing exactly what we though they would do after the last two years.
Like I said, I’m not after Omar’s head as much as the staff, but if he got caught up in it as well, then he, that’s life int he big city.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
if the Mets fire Manuel and co and keep Omar for the remainder of the season I am ok with that. I just think he’s done an overall bad job and I dont have much faith that he can turn it around.
trs86
5/20/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Not really, I predicted Pinerio would struggle outside of St. Louis. I predicted that Lackey was not that good. I predicted that Marquis was terrible.
I might have missed on Wolf.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
Omar missed the playoffs in 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009 and most likely 2010 as well. With the resources he’s had there is no excuse for it.
Its time to try something new.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
But given that this year is his first season of his extended contract, there’s no way Wilpons pay his salary for 2011 & 2012 while he’s sitting on his couch.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
well that is what needs to be done but, yes you are correct, Fred Wilpon would never allow it…
trs86
5/20/2010-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Can’t possibly blame 2005 or 2009 on Omar.
2007 I can’t blame Omar either because that team was talented enough to lead the division all year and then fell apart, that’s not the GM.
2008 yeah I think that one is fair.
2010 I don’t think you can blame him for the offense being god awful. Pitching there is a case, while I disagree.
My thoughts with Omar are two fold. The Mets have done a bad job handling small issues that blow up in their face like firing of managers or coaches. Omar has to take the blame for that. HOWEVER, the Mets minor leagues are really starting to rebound. We have 3 rookies on this year’s team that are performing (technically 4 if you count Carter) We have guys in AA, A, and lower that are looking very good. So while the product has not produced what we wanted I think Omar is getting too much blame for the problem.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
the only way Omar stays is if he is committed to fixing this team. That means admitting his mistakes and cutting ties with Castillo, Ollie and Maine and building this team the right way with Pitching and defense.
trs86
5/20/2010-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
I am sure he would if he could.
Look there was no way for him to ditch Maine and Ollie last off-season. They were stuck with Perez and were not going to cut his 24 million without at least giving him a chance. It’s not like he’s always been bad, there was a decent chance he would come out and be serviceable. The Maine thing bothered me but I am guessing the Mets were being loyal to Maine because of how hard he worked to come back from his injury. There was also no reason to release a productive 2B just to sign a guy like Gritty McHudson.
We have also argued the point on defense but the DID improve the defense tremendously in LF and behind the plate. The other spots were locked anyway.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
if the Mets are not going to be in the playoffs this season, it makes no sense to have Castillo playing everyday.
Technically its too early for them to “give up” but if/when missing the playoffs really becomes inevitable they need to look to the future and play Tejada.
trs86
5/20/2010-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Actually it would make perfect sense. To try and play him enough to show he is healthy and trade him. Tejada would be just as ready playing in AAA and is not looked at as a replacement anyway (at least by many).
ceetar
5/20/2010-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
yes, beacuse pitching and defense worked so well for Boston and Seattle.
screw that, because we actually have a good defensive team, and the pitching does need some tweaking but it might be the only real needed focus for the offseason, and even one trade for an above average starter makes this team much better.
I rather they fix Maine and Perez than releasing them right now. But probably let Maine walk at the end of the season.
I see no way cutting Castillo doesn’t lead us to having a worse team.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
the Mariners also have only 4 hitters batting over .230 and the Red Sox are a great model. I would love for us to have a GM like Epstein.
ceetar
5/20/2010-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
and yet they’re letting up a ton of runs despite the ‘pitching and defense’ motto. You’d have swapped our rotation for either of theirs.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:11am at 11:11 am (UTC -4)
they are 21-20 in the best division hands down in baseball. Lets see how our pitchers do against the Bankees
trs86
5/20/2010-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Thought you were talking about the M’s somehow there. LOL
As for the Sox yeah but they also have a ton of resources and are not supposed to be using the “we play in a tough division” excuse.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
But even they can produce a stinker.
So it’s excusable for the M’s GM to have a terrible offense? He focused on speed and defense over hitting and that’s what you get.
The Redsox are tired and old.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
i consider the Mariners to be a complete anomaly and if we had their rotation we’d be in first place by a mile…
trs86
5/20/2010-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
But if we had their hitting and “defense” we would be below the Astros.
ceetar
5/20/2010-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
I flip it actually, I blame 2007 on Omar a bit, because I feel like the bullpen was a disaster, and whether or not they were good or not, they should’ve gone to more options from the minors when Mota wasn’t getting it done. (Collazo and Muniz I believe, were throwing well for Orleans)
2008 I blame on Manuel, because I feel Omar brought up those fringe minors guys to try to curb the bleeding, and Manuel managed to misuse all of them.
trs86
5/20/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Thing is Ceetar, in 2007 they lead the division almost the entire way. The talent was for sure there. That’s Omar’s job there. The last 2 weeks of September the GM is about pointless.
ceetar
5/20/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
promoting and demoting players? Having the best 25 guys on the roster? I’m not saying he did a bad job, and I’m sure if they replayed 2007 exactly as it was, they’d win 99/100 times, but I felt the bullpen could’ve used some late season additions, and they didn’t get it.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Not a lot of promoting and demoting goes on the last 2 weeks Ceetar. They were up 3.5 games with 2 weeks left. They were up 2.5 games with 5 to play. That’s not on the GM.
ceetar
5/20/2010-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
Well true, but it’s his job to anticipate the needs of the team, roster-wise. It’s not like Mota and Schoeneweis were looking so good in August. If anything, he should’ve brought up more relievers Sept 1st to consider for the postseason.
It’s a minor thing though, 2007 was mostly anomoly and all this is hindsight.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Just saying that most GM’s would not touch a team that was up 7 with about that many to go.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
2007 was b/c Omar just didnt see the problem until it was too late..
trs86
5/20/2010-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
So a team that lead the division until the last week and lost was the GM’s fault. OK.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
he is partly to blame yes. He didnt see the bullpen as a such a liability until it was too late to make a move.
That has always been Minaya’s biggest fault. He is too slow to react and puts too much faith in the guys he has…
trs86
5/20/2010-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
So most GM’s would roster shuffle when up 7 games on September the 12th? The Mets flat out choked that year. I hate to admit it but that had nothing to do with Manuel. You or I could have been in the bp and the Mets still should have one.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
he should have upgraded seen the problem beforehand. We saw it in late July/early August and he didnt or didnt think we would lose b/c of it.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
So again are you saying that a team that is up 7 games on September the 12th does not easily have enough talent to win?
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
So it sounds like that everyone pretty much want Jerry and coaches out. Omar’s a different story, but I think it’s highly unlikely scenario that Omar gets cut.
As for players to acquire/move. I would like to see the Mets go after Oswalt or Lee if they are available.
In the case of Lee, you would have to make sure he signs contract extension before getting him. But I argued that the Mets are financially limited in doing that. Whether or not that’s true, Lee probably won’t be available until July.
For Oswalt, I think the Mets have a better chance if Astros get what they want in return. But there’s also an issue of NTC and that Oswalt my not want to come to a north east team.
What would it cost to get these pitchers? For one, the only untouchable would be Mejia and obviously Ike. But for everyone else I would not label them untouchables including Niese. I know some of you will balk at the idea of trading Niese away and I would avoid trading him as well, but if push comes to shove, we’re still not really sure what Niese is. He’s pitched well so far, but is he a legit top-tier/2nd tier starter? Or more like #4-5 starter? We don’t know yet. I would also be open to trading Murphy, Carter, FMart, Tejada and Flores. And I’m sure out of all those players, Astros should find what they like.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
If it was the off-season I could see trading Niese but to do it now still leaves 2 holes in the rotation even with Oswalt.
As for untouchables, I can’t think that it would cost that many of our top prospects for Oswalt.
Another name that has been mentioned and not mentioned is Zambrano. Might not be a bad move to take the gamble if they would take Perez back in return some how.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
As for leaving 2 holes in the rotation, I think Maine is still a serviceable pitcher at #4/5, but I guess Taka/Dickey are question marks.
I would think the Astros will demand a top-tier/2nd-tier prospect for Oswalt. Similar to what the Phillies gave up to get Lee. Maybe FMart, Familia, and Parnell could get it done?
trs86
5/20/2010-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think it takes as much to get Oswalt. Mostly because his contract is larger and not as many teams will be in on him.
I would think Fmart, Havens/Tejada (they need a 2B so…) and Holt could get it started.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
I’ll take that any day…
stickguy
5/20/2010-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
the poroblem with trading \neise is that it doesn’t actually fill a hole. It just moves it over!
Even if Oswalt is better the rest of the way, it is only the marginal upgrade over Neise that you gain. Does nothing to fill the gaping hole left by Ollie, or Maine.
Plus, you lose whatever other prospects that went also (if any), that could have been traded elsewhere for other help.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
the thing is truly believe Omar thinks Jerry is the man for the job and that he believes Jerry can lead this team to the playoffs.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
I disagree. I think Omar would have had him gone sooner if given the choice but again that’s speculation for both of us.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
the thing that us fans will never know is what goes on behind close doors. Someone is definately just clueless although idk if its Omar or the Wilpons…
trs86
5/20/2010-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Or us… LOL.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
lol only some of us
GravediggerHebner
5/20/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
I guess in the interest of following the instructions I’ll just say this post is not for me.
But for the sake of discussion I will try to pretend I don’t believe that this season is lost. So in that mindset what will I do, realistically (trading for Pujols and Halladay are not options) to try and right this ship?
As I have said (and I think that’s a vague reference to me in the post) I don’t think firing the manager is a viable long term solution. It would likely result in a brief uptick in winning percentage but the odds of that being sustainable for the balance of the season are slim. So if it’s me making these decisions the manager stays (ducking).
We all know we can’t fire the players. But what it is that the players are failing to do well is mostly hit, and to a bit of a lesser extent pitch, which in case we haven’t noticed the pitching both starting and relieving has taken a turn for the worse this month.
So since I don’t want to fire the manager and I can’t fire the players, even though I believe it’s 99% cosmetic I must do something so regrettably I fire the hitting coach and pitching coach. I also fire Dave Jauss because he is Jerry Manuel’s “guy” and I need to send a very clear message to Jerry that his performance is underwhelming. I do so after tonight’s game so the new coaches are in the dugout for the Yankees series.
Who do I hire? I’m not pilfering anyone from another organization so it has to be someone either unemployed or from within.
Given my very limited choices, Bob Melvin becomes my bench coach. He can hold the scythe of death over Jerry well from within the dugout.
Hitting coach. I have no idea if he has any experience at all at this, or if he has any interest in this, I just know he could hit – Edgardo Alfonzo. If he has any communication skills at all he should be able to share some knowledge on how to approach hitting in ways that HoJo simply can’t, because he hasn’t done it.
Pitching coach. Bob Ojeda. He obviously has strong opinions and a desire to share them since he does so nightly on TV. He was reportedly under consideration to be the pitching coach when Peterson ultimately got the job. He has worked as a pitching coach in an independent league so he does have experience. I don’t know anything specific about that team’s pitchers, I only know that team won their league championship so in theory they must’ve pitched decently under his guidance.
I realize Alfonzo as hitting coach is perhaps a huge stretch. I read above that apparently Rick Down was pooh poohed by upper management. If Alfonzo’s inexperience is just too much to overlook, I would have to go back to upper management and remind them how well this team in general and David Wright specifically hit under Down.
That’s my staff. I can’t really upgrade the roster right now. I would strongly consider a rough platoon (not strict lefty/righty) of Francoeur/Carter, and would continue to play Cora at roughly the rate he has been playing to spell Castillo (day games after night games and so on). But the Francoeur/Carter tandem would bat 6th or 7th depending on who’s catching that day, and Cora would bat 8th not 2nd.
Hopefully this team will do well enough that as summer comes and real player moves can be made, they will be worthwhile and they will be made.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Thanks for playing Grave.
I disagree on the manger part for sure. You are right the long-term results may not be there but that slight immediate uptick might be all this group needs to get going. It can’t be healthy to have the looming death of your manager hanging over your head. You got stats on the effect of keeping a lame duck manager? LOL. Also, I did not know there was a connection between Jerry and Jauss. I thought that was an upper management pick.
GravediggerHebner
5/20/2010-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
From Wikipedia:
In 1988 when Dan Duquette became the Montreal Expos director of player development, Jauss was hired by field coordinator Jerry Manuel as a Manager for the Expos Minor league baseball system. Between 1988 and 1994, Jauss managed the Gulf Coast Expos, West Palm Beach Expos, and Harrisburg Senators. He compiled a record of 188–151 in that role and was named the Eastern League Manager of the Year in 1994. He also managed winter baseball in the Dominican Republic and led Licey to the Caribbean Series title in 1999. That winter, Jauss was named Manager of the Year.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Good find. I still thought it was kind of forced on him because he wanted Razor Ramon.
GravediggerHebner
5/20/2010-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
And yes to be fair it’s possible all this group might need to get going is that slight uptick. I can’t deny that.
I see it unfolding as they play at a better percentage for a month or two, then revert to their roughly .500 ways for the balance of the season. So will the uptick be great enough that going .500 for the last 2 or 3 months gets them into the playoffs? It might.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
Maybe. There is precedent for this team to play way above .500 after a managerial change. Of course they still missed the playoffs.
Just still thinking though that while stats are great (you know how much I love them) situations are different. Especially when it comes to managers as there are a lot of variables there. A lot of these teams that fire their manager in season are just plain bad teams and are traditionally bad teams. Do we honestly expect sustained success from the Royals because they fired their manager. The Mets have talent and are under-performing. I wish there was a way to break down those stats you provided based on teams that were under-performing and teams that just plain stink.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. Just look at the Rockies last year. They were 18-28 when Tracy took over and finished the season 92-70. The Rockies clearly had talents last season and so do the Mets this season. I think it’s a matter of how to utilize the talent. Melvin may or may not do a better job, but I’m pretty sure Jerry can’t do that right now.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
True, I need to go back and look at Grave’s post to see if we could break it down by under-performing and crappy teams.
Example the O’s are rumored to be near firing time. Would it matter who the hell coaches that team?
Better example if the Brewers fire their manager, they appear to be under performing so that may be a better judge.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
If the Brewers fire their manager, you know who’s in line to take over?
trs86
5/20/2010-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Hey there is hope here. While most the most managers were relieved after the 80 game mark (12) the 2nd most was a tie and 40 games was right there at 11.
GravediggerHebner
5/20/2010-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
TRS and Kistics I think you guys are making a very reasonable point.
Perhaps where I differ is on just how good this Mets team is. I see it as “roughly” a .500 team. Right now with Jerry it’s a couple games under. With some new guy if that new guy does a decent job, I see it a couple games over and I’m just not convinced that’s enough to put this team into the post season. But I can’t and won’t say that it’s not possible, I just think it’s not likely.
trs86
5/20/2010-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Here’s the thing Grave it’s hard to say what this team is because so many are under-performing.
They are 3 games below .500 with much of their offense in a slump.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
I see what you are saying. Perhaps you maybe right that the talent is not there. But I think with an addition of solid #2 SP like Oswalt/Lee/Zambrano, the Mets are a good team.
Offensively, Mets lineup can match up with any other line up (although not right now) especially with Beltran back.
GravediggerHebner
5/20/2010-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
Again all fair and reasonable.
I just don’t know exactly what/who David Wright is anymore, I am becoming more resigned every day to the idea that Jose Reyes is going to take until next year to fully recover from having had essentially a year away from the game, I have no explanation for Jason Bay’s struggles and though I expect him to return to somewhat normal performance, he’s in such a deep hole now I think his season ending stats will be some of his worst ever, I don’t expect Rod Barajas to keep up his pace (although I do expect him to continue to be fairly “clutch”), and I have no idea which Jeff Francoeur the Mets have. That’s too many questions for me to feel as comfortable and confident that this offense is simply in a temporary funk as you guys do.
But that’s just my gut feeling and you both could certainly be correct about it.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
But when Willie was fired, the team had a great month or two. Obviously you won’t have Delgado to carry the team, but I think uplift like that would help this team to get closer to the playoffs and sell more tickets.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
No opinion on the big topic of SPs?
GravediggerHebner
5/20/2010-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Well I was typing for quite a while so I wasn’t up on the current debate. I did suggest Bob Ojeda for pitching coach with the hope that some of what he sees and how he dispenses advice about it might help with that.
All off season I screamed (politely!) for starting pitching. I wrote a lengthy post about my strong feelings that the Mets needed at least a viable # 2 starting pitcher.
As best as I can tell, the team tried somewhat half-heartedly to get one but they weren’t able to do so on their terms. I can’t force them to go back in time and get one now.
I am intrigued by Takahashi. If he can continue his bullpen performance in the rotation he will be a very big addition. Simply subbing in him for Ollie and getting a healthy Niese back in there within a couple weeks will be a big upgrade IMO. Then Maine becomes the worst pitcher and his inconsistency every 5 days, without Ollie’s too, I can live with I think.
I am OK on paper with Santana, Pelfrey, Niese, Takahashi, Maine based on what I’ve seen so far. Big “if” of course on can Taka keep it up but if he can, wow.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
I was talking about acquiring Oswalt and/or Lee via trade.
GravediggerHebner
5/20/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
Ahh, that. I vaguely referred to that in saying that make these coaching changes I’m suggesting now, then hope that’s good enough to keep the team afloat to make trades later.
I don’t see Oswalt or Lee realistically becoming Mets for at least another 4-6 weeks, and possibly 8 weeks if at all.
Can they be had? Sure. Will they help? I don’t see how they can’t. But what sort of team will they be joining and will they be enough to put it over the top? I don’t know.
In a general sense I’d much rather have Lee than Oswalt. Oswalt is the classic “little power pitcher” that people worry about breaking down and he’s getting close to breaking down age, and he had back issues in spring training. I’m fearful of his health.
Regarding Lee, I believe the debatable stories that say he will test the FA market so I am not inclined to trade away a lot for 3 months of him. I also can’t believe the M’s are just going to pack in 2010 so if they do trade him, I think they’ll expect viable MLB ready players back and I’m not sure the Mets have those not named Ike Davis, and I absolutely do not want to trade him.
trs86
5/20/2010-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
I think Oswalt could be had sooner rather than later.
GravediggerHebner
5/20/2010-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
Perhaps. I’ll believe Drayton McLane actually trades any of these guys when I see it. It would be a major change in philosophy for him. I imagine he is still thinking that his team is going to make it’s annual second half run and so not dismantle it.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
I cant argue with that although I would not fire Warthen or Jauss. Ollie and Maine are not going to be fixed. Pelfrey works well with Warthen and the bullpen has been very good although extremely overworked so i cannot blame him for the pitching problems.
I can blame HoJo for his “mentoring” David Wright and the hitting problem with Reyes and as a team. He needs to go.
Mr North Jersey
5/20/2010-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
I love this heavy debate to show why Minaya should be blamed for this year and not that year for this but not that.
Who’s winning by the way? Looks like a tie so far. For every point their is a counter and for every counter there is another counter it seems that never ends.
On another topic did anyone see Dylan Owen pitched good last night in his AAA debut?
trs86
5/20/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, good news there. That is another point for Omar right? The minors are starting to produce.
Mr North Jersey
5/20/2010-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
What’s the score?
trs86
5/20/2010-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
19-22.
Mr North Jersey
5/20/2010-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Looks like a football score.
Let me see,
7 Touchdown
6 touchdown (missed extra point)
3 Field Goal
3 Field Goal
19 – points
7 Touchdown
7 Touchdown
3 Field Goal
3 Field Goal
2 Saftey
22 – points
trs86
5/20/2010-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Looks like our record
Mr North Jersey
5/20/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
you think?
ceetar
5/20/2010-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
Even hashing it out, I only feel comfortable evaluating the GM to about 60%. It’s so hard to know what goes on behind the scenes, who actually makes the calls and waht the info they were looking at was.
I also don’t think it’s a clear “this guy would be better” thing like it is with Manuel.
oleosmirf
5/20/2010-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
If we get embarrassed by the Yankees this series, they will have no choice but to make changes. I think the FO will have no choice but to get rid of HoJo and others and they will place someone (that Manuel has no say in) in that spot.
Once they make the change, they will give Manuel some time and if nothing changes, then he is gonna have to go too…
trs86
5/20/2010-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. Sunday night may be D-Day.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
me too. But I don’t see the point of keeping Manuel if you’re going to cut his coaches. He’s a sitting duck and why leave him in there?
ceetar
5/20/2010-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
I really dont’ see us getting embarassed by the Yankees, but then we’ve gotten embarassed by the Nats and Marlins this year so..
*crosses fingers*
The Mets will be closer to first place than the Yankees after the series.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Speaking of making changes, I seriously think that the Mets should explore the option of trading Beltran if the team’s out of the race come July. The problem is his health and that the Mets would probably get not get much value in return, but assuming he comes back end of June AND plays well for 1 month, I think trading Beltran could be looked at.
ceetar
5/20/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
It’s sad, but maybe. But if he’s back and playing well..I’d rather have him than not. Is the possible bruises taking him down again risk worth more than how much less we’d get in a trade because of that risk?
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
Well, based on his contract, the Mets cannot offer an arbitration to Beltran when he walks. So the Mets get nothing back when he walks. So, if you know the Mets don’t need him, might as well get something in return.
But then there’s a problem of his salary and that a team that can afford his salary is Boston. But now with most of OF coming back from the DL, they might need Beltran.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
Oh btw, stop kicking my ass!
ceetar
5/20/2010-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
*muahahahahaha*
trs86
5/20/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
How do you get a team to bite on that much money? No way do the Mets get anything of value in return and may have to eat a ton of cash.
ceetar
5/20/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
The only way they get something of value is if he’s looking good enough that we shouldn’t trade him. (but generally this is how trades work)
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/20/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
That is true, but maybe a team like the Giants or Padres make a push for the playoffs this season. And Beltran’s bat can certainly help.
koose
5/20/2010-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
There’s also that little line in beltrans contract that states that if traded the new team must give an extension to him ,no way he’s going anywhere
stickguy
5/20/2010-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
well, that part you made up.
Unless you mean that he has a no trade clause, so he of course is in total control of if, and where, he gets traded to.
I did notice a couple things with his contract. 1 is that 5.5 million of his salary from 2008-2011 (22mill total) is deferred. so, when you figure out payroll for this year and next, take that into account. And it is at a nice low 1.72%, so a good deal for the mets. Not idea when it starts paying out.
Also, I love this perk:
perks: club agreed to lease ocular enhancer machine (device that throws numbered & multi-colored tennis balls at 150 mph)
Maybe they can get Francouer to use it?
johan4cy
5/20/2010-5:43pm at 5:43 pm (UTC -4)
His problem isn’t a lack of vision, its a lack of discipline. He wants to hit everything.