Maine-ly Embarrassing Victory!
May 21
Joe Petruccio’s Art: May 20,2010 “Maine-ly Embarrassing Victory!â€
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70 comments
metsfan4decades
5/21/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
This guy Joe is very talented…
Ted Berg’s post mostly sums up how I feel about this whole Maine fiasco.
http://www.tedquarters.net/2010/05/21/habitually-not-so-good/
fongy2
5/21/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Thanks for the link.
Pretty harsh statement to made
by a pitching coach not named
Dave Duncan.
I’d read b/t the lines and see
Warthen knowing he’s very close to being out the door here.
udontmesswthejohan
5/21/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
This comment from maine still befuddle me though:
“”I don’t care if it’s 95. I don’t care if its 75 mph,” Maine said. “I just want to go out there and pitch.”"
well he may not care, but everyone else associated with the Mets universe does. I mean, I have a glove, does that mean I should be allowed to start a game throwing 70 mph?
I don’t disagree with most of what Berg said, but I would argue that as an employee, you are sometimes on a need to know basis. Maine’s job is to pitch, preferablly effectively, not to know the background behind every decision that the front office or Jerry make.
trs86
5/21/2010-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. If Maine did not know why he was being pulled he’s an idiot.
fongy2
5/21/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Mes think Jerry was protecting HIMSELF!…But…Whatever….
I’m no Jerry supporter or defender BUT
this mess of a team isn’t his fault.
I ask, is it Jerry’s fault that
Reyes,Bay,Frenchy&Wright either are not producing even close to levels they should? Is it Jerry’s fault Maine,Ollie&Niese have provided little AND/OR are hurt?
Is it Jerry’s fault he has limited BP options?…AND that his best two (Pedro&KRod) look like arm weary pitchers. I know this guy isn’t Billy
Martin or even Bobby V in game…AND
as someone who KNOWS a large part of a
Mgr’s job is to set a tone both in the
clubhouse and field….Something Jerry
doesn’t seem great at…BUT again, really, look what he’s working with
here.
koose
5/21/2010-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
You hit it on the head, jerry didn’t create this team yes he’s not the best manager around for sure,his managment of the bullpen and overuse of it is a real question. Again the great omar built it and we will see if his moves in the offseason to build a supporting staff of backups and replacments in case of injury or bad performance pan out,my guess is no and if they don’t maybe then omar takes the fall
metsfan4decades
5/21/2010-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
All good points, Fongy.
My opinion lately has been there isn’t any one person that’s responsible for the woes of this team right now so there probably isn’t any one person or easy fix…..
saltygary
5/21/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
If the Mets don’t make changes after this home-stand I doubt they will till all star break time. By next week 1 third of the season will be played out. 3-5 starters are gone, the bullpen is already demonstrating how tired they are and they’re at the bottom half in the league for offense. No team can get into the playoffs or let alone get attendance up with these glaring issues.
So the team is going to sit back and say we either need to make a drastic change to give the team a shot for this season, a drastic change that has a 2-3 year path to get back into the playoffs, or do nothing and slowly wilt and the owners will clean house at the second half and blame everyone else except themselves. Then again no matter what, they will blame everyone else besides themselves.
I’m hoping they make decisions that worry about the near long term as a priority as opposed to now. I’m also hoping the Doubleday family somehow buys the team back.
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
What would constitute a 2-3 year plan to the playoffs? You talking trading Reyes away (which would be a sell low) or trading Beltran away (again, a selling low)? I don’t see much else that could be traded that you’d want to get rid of. Pelf is cheap, Niese is broken, Bay isn’t going anywhere, Wright (mr. Face o’ the team) isn’t going anywhere. Santana, going no where. Unless you are talking moving Pagan & maybe castillo, I don’t see much of what people would want that the Mets would part with.
trs86
5/21/2010-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, and either way I don’t see them giving up on this year in May.
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
exactly.
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
Well wait about 10 days for June. The Mets will have completed 3 games each at home against the Yankees and Phillies, and on the road at the Brewers, and will be in the state of California where they have been known to pull the plug on a manager in June.
trs86
5/21/2010-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
Sure but that would not mean they have given up on this year though.
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
My bad, I realize now you guys were talking about things far more drastic than just firing the manager. My June manager comment is fairly irrelevant to your discussion.
saltygary
5/21/2010-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe to clarify “Drastic” it doesn’t necessarily mean having a fire sale. I was more referring to gutting the front office and coaches and start a new.
Your points above demonstrate how difficult it will be to make meaningful moves to compete for this year. Probably the only piece that has real value is Wright, and I would not advocate getting rid of him or Reyes (at least for the short term).
The reason I was throwing the 2-3 year plan out there is to get payroll flexibility and the time period will hopefully have people like Flores and Nieuw ready.
Within 2 years you have Krods and Oliies 12 mil each coming off the books. Castillo’s 6 a year will be off. French got 5 mil coming to him. Maine earns 3, Cora’s 2. That’s a lot of scratch to help build a different foundation. Some of that money would have to be paid to Pelf seeing he only gets 500k. But that’s it.
saltygary
5/21/2010-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
Just found a good spreadsheet covering Mets payroll obligations:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tfJWfaPG4VXbDyBscIZf1MQ&output=html
saltygary
5/21/2010-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
Also just saw that Cora’s 2 mil option vests if he starts 80 games. Ummm Can we keep Castillo to help block this from happening?
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-1:38pm at 1:38 pm (UTC -4)
I know that some discussions of “on pace” are less relevant than others but I’ll throw it out there that Cora has started 15 of the Mets 42 games. 15/42 = .357, and 162 x .357 = 58 so he’s on pace to start 58 games so far.
If the Mets actually do trade/cut Castillo, which seems incredibly unlikely to me, I don’t think Cora automatically becomes the starter.
saltygary
5/21/2010-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
That’s a good pace they need to keep it. That would be really stupid money to throw away.
This also shows how important it is to keep Reyes healthy. He has an 11 million option next year and I would be shocked if they don’t honor it. If he gets hurt long enough it’s technically increasing his option to 13 million to cover Cora.
ceetar
5/21/2010-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
That pace is too much. Castillo shouldbe a lot closer to 140 games than 100.
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t disagree with you but I think some of Cora’s pace is due to starting games for Reyes at the beginning of the season.
Castillo is on pace to start 116 games currently which does seem a bit low but isn’t quite as drastic as Cora’s pace implies.
Barring actual injury, assuming just day after night type rest, I expect Castillo to start in the 135 range which basically gives a back up 1 start a week.
ceetar
5/21/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
I’m fine with that, but Castillo’s been getting too many days off too frequently. Maybe it’s just some nagging injuries that Manuel’s playing conservatively, even if he denies it.
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
I’d say we’re looking at this for the future, barring crazy trades
2011-2012 – with new managers and coaches!
C: current cathers until they break/retire/thole looks like he can take over
1B: Ike
2b: Tejada/Havens – cheaper alternatives than current option
SS: Reyes, signed to an extension
3B: Wright
LF: Bay
CF: Beltran (???) next year, captian Kirk or Pagan
RF: Pagan, the animal, F-Mart…
Pitching: Santana, Pelf, Niese, Mejia, unknown.
I won’t get into the bench & Bullpen, as well, it’s the bench & Bullpen. I would think they would stick to cheaper options at 2B and CF (once Castillo & Beltran goes) and dump that money into SP and Reyes extension. Reduced payroll at RF, 2B (post castillo), 1B, CF (post beltran) and C would be where the cuts would come from. They will need to spend for 2 SPs, in my mind. Loosing Ollie will be a Godsend. 2B & CF can be filled inhouse.
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
I completely agree that they need to use cheaper, younger, in-house-type options at multiple positions to balance payroll elsewhere.
Not signing Reyes to the extension you note, while a difficult and delicate topic to discuss, and certainly not my priority, is a possibility considering his current state and the presence in the system of Wilmer Flores. I had read nothing but bad reports on his fielding until recently when Toby Hyde wrote this:
Flores is leading the SAL in batting average at .352 and is top four in OBP (.407) and SLG (.562). He’s hit fastballs. He’s hit breaking balls. He almost never gives away AB, and has shown top shelf bat speed and hand-eye coordination which leads to excellent consistent barrel contact. I’ve also been pleasantly surprised by his defense. His hands are very quick and he’s got a cannon for an arm. Can he stay at short? He’s working hard on it, but either way, the bat looks very, very real.
saltygary
5/21/2010-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
And maybe that’s why Reyes’s option is picked up. Give Flores another year of development and figure out next year what position will be best for him.
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
Well, think of this (and consider the number of hits this post would get). If they really feel Flores is going to be the guy, They may consider trading Reyes for young pitching. Tejada could be the spot SS for a while, for sure. And I’m not saying trading reyes this season, but in the off season, when it can be spun that he’s healthy, etc. etc. It’s a tough, tough thing to consider, but if you don’t think an extension is the way to go and Super-Flores is on the up and up, might as well get something for the other needs that the Mets have.
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
Right now I have the same opinion that Salty notes above. Exercise the option for Reyes, but perhaps hesitate before inking him to an extension beyond that while monitoring Flores’ progress.
If Flores continues to be a beast that trade talk gains momentum.
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
Here here, chip chip, cheerio and concurrances all around.
saltygary
5/21/2010-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
And that would give Reyes another season to prove he is better then what he is now. Risks to both angles but I would rather risk reyes getting his value back and letting Flores develop then trading Reyes now where I dont see great returns.
saltygary
5/21/2010-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
Getting young pitching is showing to be very difficult. If they can pull it off it has to be looked at. Might be hard getting young pitching and clearing 11million. Might have to pick up some teams crap too.
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
Who knows, what was rumored to be had from Boston was pretty decent.
saltygary
5/21/2010-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
But now that Dice is flopping and Beckett is worn out, their young pitching might not be had now.
saltygary
5/21/2010-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
If you look at the free agent list, essentially every single catcher hits the open market next season.
There aren’t any great options for second so going with Tejada would be a decent option.
There are 3 decent OF options with Crawford, Hawpe (does have an option) and Werth but that’s it. I want FMART up but these injuries just wont stop.
There’s a lot of pitching available but their all 30 years and older. This is where Niese and Mejia can have a great opportunity to step up.
Keep in conservative next season and let the money come off the books, and let internal pieces step up. Learn from the season and apply the payroll flexibility to where it is needed and the team can be in much better shape then where it is now.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/09/2011-mlb-free-agents.html
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. They need to get to the point where 1 more major signing will turn the tide. No more of this 1 more major signing to plug some holes.
saltygary
5/21/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly. Throwing 15 million at Lee won’t do a damn thing to right the whole team.
trs86
5/21/2010-3:05pm at 3:05 pm (UTC -4)
Crawford makes no sense for us as he is a LF and we would need a RF/CF.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/21/2010-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
Cindy?
saltygary
5/21/2010-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
Yea and the Money he would command at his age wouldn’t make sense either.
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
Any Mets fans who may be heading into the Subway Series with their dobber down (thanks Keith for that expression) should read Mark Simon’s article at ESPN.
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
Heyman is talking to Francesa about Castillo. He says Willie never liked Castillo and that Jerry doesn’t like Castillo going back to when they were both in Florida, they consider him “mopey” and while they don’t think he’s a bad player they don’t think he’s good enough of a player to put up with is being “mopey.” Heyman adds that “the fact that he’s mopey has gotten around the league making a trade more difficult. If they were to trade him they’d probably have to pay $5.5 mil of his $6 mil salary.”
Interesting stuff if true.
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-2:23pm at 2:23 pm (UTC -4)
Heyman… ick. He’s not as bad as Olney, but I wouldn’t trust what he says either way.
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. I am learning not to get upset about anything he says, but I still feel like it’s at least worth listening to/discussing, even if only to pooh pooh it.
I found his use of the word “mopey” intriguing if only because if I were giving the Mets players “Snow White and the 7 Dwarves” names, “Mopey” would’ve been my 2nd choice for Castillo after “Slappy,” or at least my 3rd choice after “Bunty.”
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
Gimpy or Sacrificy works too.
Does Whiffy work for Wright?
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, “Sacrificy” almost made milk come out my nose, which would be less alarming if I were drinking milk.
For Wright “Whiffy” is definitely better than “Strikey Outey” or “Over Ratey.”
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
Smiley or Frenchy for, uh, Frenchy.
Yipey for Pelf.
Bone-heady for Pagan.
Wavey Homey for Razor Shines.
Dookie for GMJ.
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-3:03pm at 3:03 pm (UTC -4)
I was going to call Castillo Nappy because of that hand gesture he does when he gets a hit as if he’s putting his head down on a pillow, but I thought it might be misinterpreted.
Now that you’ve gone with Wavey Homey and Dookie I am less worried about Nappy.
saltygary
5/21/2010-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
Give it up Mets fans your 2009 NYM MVP Slappy Bunt McMOOOOPEEEYYYYYYY
trs86
5/21/2010-3:03pm at 3:03 pm (UTC -4)
Sound like something you would order at McDonalds.
Yes I will have the Slappy Bunt McMoopeeey with just cheese and pickles please.
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-3:17pm at 3:17 pm (UTC -4)
Supersize those Frenchies for you sir?
As you can tell, the work day can’t end quick enough for me.
saltygary
5/21/2010-2:40pm at 2:40 pm (UTC -4)
LOL You guys are so anti Olney over here.
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
we’re just pro-truth and anti-fabricated.
trs86
5/21/2010-2:48pm at 2:48 pm (UTC -4)
I wonder if Heyman actually knows Castillo has 2 years left counting this one?
I also can’t see the Mets eating what I guess would amount to 11M of his 12M to not have a 2B and get a 28 year old minor leaguer in return. Who do they think Castillo is? Wagner?
saltygary
5/21/2010-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly. If they want to eat Ollie and are currently eating Beltran I can’t see why eating Castillo would even be discussed. Who’s hungry?
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/21/2010-3:02pm at 3:02 pm (UTC -4)
huh? who’s eating who?
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
Not sure but I believe Aretha Franklin is involved.
metsfan4decades
5/21/2010-2:59pm at 2:59 pm (UTC -4)
I tuned into the MF drive by show this afternoon, only because he’s got some guests on this afternoon I’d like to hear in light of the Mets/Yanks series starting tonight.
I heard Heyman’s spot. All I’m going to say on that is ‘Bah’….
Ron Darling on at 3pm. I’ve often found Darling’s analysis on these shows a little more blunt or forth coming than he does when he’s doing analysis for SNY.
GravediggerHebner
5/21/2010-3:00pm at 3:00 pm (UTC -4)
Ron Darling on the FAN at 3:05, Jerry Manuel at 3:25 and David Howard at 4:05, times approximate!
saltygary
5/21/2010-3:13pm at 3:13 pm (UTC -4)
OMG I just turned on the stream and it’s not a commercial.
metsfan4decades
5/21/2010-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
Good questions from MF to Darling. Now if he would only shut up and let him answer.
My biggest pet peeve with this guy. He CONSTANTLY talks over everyone.
saltygary
5/21/2010-3:16pm at 3:16 pm (UTC -4)
No doubt. The frail question is stupid for this season. They are show so much more fight than the past couple seasons.
metsfan4decades
5/21/2010-3:22pm at 3:22 pm (UTC -4)
And that’s exactly what Ronnie was trying to say. He said he still likes this team and it’s chances especially b/c other than the Phillies and Cards, the NL is a crap shoot.
metsfan4decades
5/21/2010-3:29pm at 3:29 pm (UTC -4)
AGHHHHH – I really don’t know how anyone listen’s to MF daily.
Wish he’d let Ronnie finish answering one damn question. I swear he doesn’t invite these guests on for added worth, he just asks them to come on so he can talk non stop at them without having to cut them off as a caller.
That being said, what Ronnie has been allowed to get out just convinces me more and more he’s one smart ex-pitcher.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/21/2010-3:36pm at 3:36 pm (UTC -4)
he should replace Warthen
Hazmet
5/21/2010-3:12pm at 3:12 pm (UTC -4)
MNJ: Thank you for adding this to the daily roll call. This guy is freakin’ awesome. He’s so got it down, seriously talented “cat” as Jerry might say. My new favorite spot.
metsfan4decades
5/21/2010-3:33pm at 3:33 pm (UTC -4)
Line-up for tonight:
updated lineup: Reyes ss; Cora 2b; Bay lf; Davis 1b; Wright 3b; Pagan cf; Barajas c; Francoeur rf; Takahashi p
Castillo was a late scratch due to pain in his left foot. I’m assuming that same bone bruise with his heel he’s been dealing with.
DNDJohan aka kistics
5/21/2010-3:35pm at 3:35 pm (UTC -4)
At least the pop-up won’t be an issue anymore…. or will it?
metsfan4decades
5/21/2010-3:39pm at 3:39 pm (UTC -4)
Over/under on how many times FOX and ESPN shows that during Sat/Sun games.
njstuckintx
5/21/2010-3:35pm at 3:35 pm (UTC -4)
The lineup as it should be…
Reyes/Pagan/Bay/Davis/Wright/Barajas/Cora/Frenchy/Taka
saltygary
5/21/2010-3:43pm at 3:43 pm (UTC -4)
It’s that stupid trade suggestion and Torre comment why I never listen to MF anymore. How did I get roped into this.
saltygary
5/21/2010-3:51pm at 3:51 pm (UTC -4)
He also sounds like he has a sausage grinder stuck in his throat.