Artwork courtesy of Joe Petruccio’s My NY Mets Journal Blog
Jun 03
Joe Petruccio’s Mets Art: June 2,2010 “What A Grand Loss!â€
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70 comments
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
This is a great picture. But to be fair, KRod is the one who blew the save. Jerry just lost it.
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
I think this is due to Santana’s comments “I can only do so much. I told pitching coach Dan Warthen that I felt I can go 150, 200 pitches if I have to.â€
The suggestion being he will do what it takes even the drastic measure of throwing that many pitches if it means getting a win.
whataputz
6/3/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
why did Jerry lose it? Is it Jerrys fault his offense can only score 1 run? Is it his fault his close can’t get it done? You can lead a horse to water…
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
I think it is that he 1. used Valdes to begin with and 2. left him in to face Gonzalez.
whataputz
6/3/2010-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
He left his last lefty to face Gonzo and that’s bad? Again, how about A. Scoring more than 1 run in 10 innings. B. His closer actually getting it done. I mean cmon, you’re telling me Dessens gets Gonzo out? Managers can only do so much. When do the players take the blame?
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
Clearly Valdes gave up the hr but having seen Valdes when he last pitched clearly look horrendous and then seeing him fall right back into the same horrendous struggle yesterday you’d think he would of went another route with the bases loaded. Mainly Mejia but according to reports Mejia got up to warm up too late and was not ready when Gonzalez came to da plate. Not that I believe he would of used him there anyways had he been ready.
whataputz
6/3/2010-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
So Mejia was going to get it done. And even if he did (which he wasn’t), the Mets still had to get up and try to score (which they wouldn’t). Then who do you go with? If you’re going to put blame on Jerry here, you are wrong. YOU HAVE TO SCORE RUNS TO WIN!!!!!!
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
no need for caps putz. It is a simple discussion. I agree the Mets still had to score a run Mejia may have also failed.
I just am saying when faced with the obvious scenario that is Valdes unable to retire a batter you’d think bringing in a strikeout pitcher may have increased your chances if not ever so slightly more in your favor but you feel it wouldnt and that is just fine we are just speculating here.
whataputz
6/3/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
I see what you’re saying. But I’m pretty sure Mejia couldn’t go, so who did you want him to put in. Fine, maybe he should have went with Elmer there, but do you think if he goes with Elmer we win that game?
trs86
6/3/2010-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
The thing is Valdes has been more a of a strike out pitcher than Mejia. The stats don’t show taking out Valdes there but for sure our gut and hindsight might.
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-1:58pm at 1:58 pm (UTC -4)
That is the point forget the stats look at Valdes he clearly did not have it.
metsfan4decades
6/3/2010-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
You couldn’t have used Dessens there. Dessens already pitched in the 8th.
Choices were Valdes, Nieve, Mejia or Perez.
Of those 4, I would not have went to Valdes first, way he looked the other night.
But you’re right. This lost game was on the offense and KRod. Not Jerry and the rest of the BP.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
Would you have left Valdes in to face Gonzo? I wouldn’t because of the way Valdes looked last night and the night before.
It’s one thing to play the Lefty-Lefty matchup, but it’s also another thing to use your head.
I agree that this game could have won with better offensive production and KRod doing his job. But Jerry certainly contributed in the loss as well by how he handled Valdes in the 10th.
whataputz
6/3/2010-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
Well considering Mejia wasn’t ready, yes. You’re talking about one of the best hitters in the game, and all they had to do was get the ball air born. You think Mejia or Dessens is getting it done there?
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
But there’s also GIDP scenario. I think Mejia would have given you a better chance of creating GIDP or K over Valdes at that point.
metsfan4decades
6/3/2010-1:41pm at 1:41 pm (UTC -4)
Valdes looked horrible his last outing. And you could see he didn’t have it after one batter last night. Jerry should have brought Mejia in, IMO. Dessens had already been used in the 8th.
But as I said above, this loss was on the offense and KRod.
ceetar
6/3/2010-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
by the same argument, the players can say “Johan’s going, we don’t have to score runs”
Just because there is one issue/problem, doesn’t mean you get a pass on the others.
So just because it wasn’t Jerry’s fault that they didn’t score (at least, it’s probably not, who knows what he’s doing to these guys before they play) or Frankie blew it, he certainly has to get a ton of blame for his pathetic use of the bullpen.
hell, even with Frankie. Maybe if he didn’t jump to him in the 8th. Maybe if he didn’t bring GMJ into the game they score another run there. It’s a slim chance, but they still had a better shot to win if you put Carter there. Or if you go to Mejia to finish the 8th (or it wasn’t mop-up enough was it?) and bring in Frankie fresh into the 9th. Or if you realize Valdes did not record an out except the one they gave up on the bunt over 5 batters, facing the biggest hitter in the lineup. adherence to the matchups instead of just using the best pitcher fails again. gee.
trs86
6/3/2010-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
Agree on Krod, like it or not for the most part in his career he has not been used as a multi inning guy. I am sure that is out of his comfort zone.
whataputz
6/3/2010-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
Did he not get it done in the 8th? His offense failed him. His closer failed him. You’re not going to win those games. You’re just not. I like Valdez against Gonzo anyway. I don’t love it, but I like it just as much as I like Mejia. Mejia is young and nervous, hasn’t pitched in a while, and gets hit hard at times. He also a fly ball pitcher against one of the best hitters in the game who’s also a lefty. It’s not like he had feliciano ready.
If you’re so content on blaming Jerry for that mistake, he still is .0001 percent of why the team lost. Get on the players one time and stop blaming Jerry.
ceetar
6/3/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
Jerry’s a ton of raeson why they lost. way more than .0001. it doesn’t matter what the number is. when someone “helpsy ou lose” you fire them for someone that “helps you win” big differene.
look it up, I’d guarentee that the team that takes a 1-0 lead into the ninth wins a large percentage of the time.
soo, you DO win games like that. you just do.
whataputz
6/3/2010-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
So….you want him to take K-rod out before the 9th?
whataputz
6/3/2010-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
Ceetar, HE WAS 1 STRIKE AWAY FROM A SAVE!!!! As Franscesa would say if you were a caller. 1 strike…1strike!..1 strike! 1 strike…(whispers) 1 strike. Do you want Jerry to go out there on the 0-2 count and say “Alright uhhh…uhhh you’re going to uu throw a slider in the dirt followed by a change-up on the outside corner”? That is K-rod fault. K-Rods fault. The players’ fault there. Jerry managed to the point where he had his closer with 1 strike away from winning. You can only do so much.
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
I think we need to get our facts straight KROD blew the save not the game. when Krod left it was 1-1 I believe.
njstuckintx
6/3/2010-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
We knew this was going to happen with Krod when we signed him. We KNEW it. And I’m fine with it. I still want him as my closer. Looking at the alternative of Fuentes, we still have the better deal for a closer.
whataputz
6/3/2010-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
True Jersey, but Ceeter is saying how you win a large % of games when you go intot he 9th up 1-0, and I was saying that it was K-rod who blew the win when it was 1-0 and you can’t blame Jerry for his blown save. So then, alright -rod only blew the save. So what does the offense do? Goose eggs. If you’re not going to score in extra innings you’re going to lose 100% of the time. Fine, maybe Valdez should have came out, but A. Mejia wasn’t able to pitch. B. That leaves you with Ollie, and Neive whom they aren’t going to use, so I don’t think that game is going to be won by the Mets.
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
I agree putz what you say is a reasonable evaluation of the situation. I just am looking at it from the angle that Valdes clearly just did not have it I mean he had nothing at all and once the bases became loaded I openly wondered why continue with him and not Mejia at that point?
The results would of been probably the same but it felt like seeing a car wreck as its about to happen and not stepping out of the way of the impending collision.
Do I blame the loss solely on Manuel?
-no
But it would of been nice to see him act when he saw Valdes melt down with Gonzalez coming to da plate.
trs86
6/3/2010-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
Where we are still missing Manuel’s flaw was going to Krod in the bottom of the 8th in a 1 run game asking him again to close out a multi-inning game. If you don’t trust any of your relievers to get one out in the bottom of the 8th besides Krod then either the manager or the pen stink.
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah but going to KRod in the 8th showed how big this game was to him.
KRod threw 6 pitches and got out of the inning.
When KRod gave up the hit to tie the game it was only on his 24th pitch.
2 pitches later he got out of the inning.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
I didn’t mind KRod coming in early. Simply because
1) Johan would get a win and everyone can shut up about Johan’s blown effort (so much for that)
2) 3-3 record on the road is not bad considering how they play on the road and can set the tone for the next road trip.
3) Day off the next day
4) BP was struggling and KRod was the only arm that we can trust
trs86
6/3/2010-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
Then we have more problems then known. When Krod came in hadn’t Dessens just gotten 2 outs in a row?
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
You can’t never blame a manager for trying to get a 4 out save from his closer.
trs86
6/3/2010-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t?
Well damn.
metsfan4decades
6/3/2010-1:42pm at 1:42 pm (UTC -4)
Agree.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
It was Jerry’s choice to bring in Valdes and keep him in the game when you clearly saw that Valdes is struggling.
njstuckintx
6/3/2010-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
Even the pitch selection. Ronnie mentioned, all 3 prior hits by Gonzalez was to left field and the pitch selection he threw was away. Someone wasn’t doing their homework.
whataputz
6/3/2010-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
Santana should be pissed. This isn’t the firs time this has happened. The guy should have at least 7 wins, and should be in the Cy Young talk. It’s the same story new year. Santana should call out his team. Again, you can only lead the horse to water, and I’d say 7 and 8 scoreless is leading the horse.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with you. Santana must’ve been screwed at least 10 wins during his tenure with the Mets.
njstuckintx
6/3/2010-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
To be fair, whenever Santana pitches, he’s going against the opposing team’s ace.
Kingman 26
6/3/2010-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
Everyone—
We have a bullpen that is one (Ollie) or two (Nieve) men short.
On Friday Jerry used Feliciano for ONE BATTER each game.
This is abominable, little league managing.
njstuckintx
6/3/2010-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
If you want to see an unruly pregnant lady with flames shooting out here nose, come to my house for a game. My wife literally yells at the TV when this happens.
GravediggerHebner
6/3/2010-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
I hope in fairness she also does that when “RBI men” strand runners, “base stealers” get thrown out stealing bases, “former gold glovers” drop balls that would’ve been outs, and “closers” fail to close.
I certainly won’t argue that Jerry Manuel is a positive, but he’s receiving a lot of help from a lot of players when it comes to losing games. To exclusively or even primarily blame him for these things is IMO to wear blinders.
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
If there is one thing the Mets have a lot of it is Blame to go around.
whataputz
6/3/2010-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
agreed.
njstuckintx
6/3/2010-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
Nope, just when Feliciano comes in to throw 1 pitch or to 1 batter. I never said a pregnant lady was also rational.
GravediggerHebner
6/3/2010-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
Hey if she’s pregnant IMO she can do pretty much whatever she wants that doesn’t lead to harming the child, but in a calm moment I might casually refer her indirectly to Pedro’s splits:
Generated 6/3/2010.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
How do you put on a table like that? Is that one of those author privilege thing?
trs86
6/3/2010-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
No I think baseball reference has a way now by clicking on table.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
how?
njstuckintx
6/3/2010-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
I think Kistics is asking how he can imbed those stats like Grave did into his own posts. does he need “author privledges”?
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
Yes kKistics its like TRS said.
This will show you how
http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/sharing.shtml
metsfan4decades
6/3/2010-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed.
There is no one person to blame.
- SP started out poor this year, which in turn over worked the BP.
- Jerry’s line-ups at times (Tatis 4th) and his in game management (leave Valdes out there when it was clear to all he didn’t have it).
- Ollie taken up a BP slot when we desperately need a fresh arm that’s attached to someone not named Oliver Perez.
- Bench players that are useless such as GMJ, Cat and Jacobs, to start the year.
Any of the above are different on any given night – maybe, just maybe some of these losses would be wins.
fongy2
6/3/2010-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed
BUT if JBay hits another 3/4HRs
&Drives
in another 8/9Runs
we likely
Win another
3/4Gms and are sitting in 1st place despite everything.
RE:Your post on Strasburg,I’ve seen the kid twice in person and twice on MASN
down here AND HE IS the real deal!
He’s schedule to Pitch for the Nats on the 8th.
metsfan4decades
6/3/2010-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry – I meant to add:
-anemic offense across the board first 5 weeks or so
-Bay’s up/down offense
-Wright’s continued struggles
Watching this game….Strasburg is just amazing. I’m jealous of the Nats….
Kingman 26
6/3/2010-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
Well my esteemed friend, physically being able to get a hit to drive in a run, being able to run fast enough to beat the catcher’s throw and steal a base, and KRod not being 100% in the game’s biggest consistent-high-pressure position are all things which depend on physical ability, the opponent, etc.
Using a very good reliever for one pitch (whose splits I am well aware of) when we have the exhausted Nieve, the useless Ollie, the still-not right Iggy and the craptastic Valdes in the pen, is not a physical challenge–it is a mental one which should be aced nearly 100% of the time.
Choosing to bat Jacobs, Tatis, or Catalanotto cleanup is not a physical challenge, but a terrible decision, which we have seen again and again. Who on Earth would bat these guys cleanup when a Wright or a Bay or even a Frenchy or an Ike or a Barajas a Pagan are available? Some of these days, the cleanup hitter was very possibly the WORST and least productive hitter in the entire lineup. Who the hell hides a Jacobs or a Tatis in the 4 hole?
I hope this clarifies what I am trying to say.
fongy2
6/3/2010-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
I for one agree w/you on this
BUT again .500 despite
all thats gone aint bad.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
Speaking of the worst blown call in the history of baseball..
To me the worst call is when Beltran was called out looking at Wainwright’s pitch. It was clearly a ball…. terrible umpire job….
Kingman 26
6/3/2010-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
You are joking, right?
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-2:23pm at 2:23 pm (UTC -4)
yes I’m joking… my heart still aches…
i still cannot admit the truth and blame that it was a bad call…
Kingman 26
6/3/2010-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!! Gotcha!
At least Wainwright has become a really good pitcher, so I suppose that makes it 1% less horrible.
Unlike the revoltingly awful Weaver and Suppan….
fongy2
6/3/2010-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
I dont care if its Sandy Koufax,
you cant get caught looking in that spot.
Then again,its part of Bel-Tron’s M.O..
Ya,know
1st&2nd
no one out7attempt to sacrifice,leave it to the next guy to drive in the run…
That sort of thing..
Kingman 26
6/3/2010-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, sure was his MO in the postseason with Houston too.
Come on buddy.
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
Generated 6/3/2010.
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
it should look like this
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry for making a mess…
trs86
6/3/2010-1:50pm at 1:50 pm (UTC -4)
It’s ok. I will go back and delete them.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-1:53pm at 1:53 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks, but I still can’t do it.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/3/2010-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
I did and it keeps on giving me that long ass thing.
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
hmm maybe it is only authors that can do it.
njstuckintx
6/3/2010-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
You elitists, you.
Mr North Jersey
6/3/2010-2:33pm at 2:33 pm (UTC -4)