All right, I don’t buy the Oliver Perez injury one bit but hey, whatever gets him out of New York is fine with me. But now that he’s gone my question for the day is:
Will we ever see Oliver Perez again or do you think he is in permanent exile? Let’s hear your thoughts.
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Bonus Question. The Jim Joyce call the other night drove me crazy, however, the following days events such as showed me just how much class Joyce had as well as Galarraga.  Today’s bonus question is: Do you think the Official Scorer of the Game could have called the play an error? Thus keeping the no-hitter intact?
37 comments
ceetar
6/6/2010-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
I suspect we’ll see Perez again, yes. If he’s not injured, he’ll work it out and be back in a couple of weeks (as mandated by MLB rules actually) If he was actually injured I’d be concerned about more hidden injuries, and another player having a failed surgery (Maine).
I don’t know if Dickey sticks, especially with the amount of people he lets on base. Takahashi I do really like, but it may end up being he’s best in the pen. So Perez and maybe Maine and the new acquisition in the future will probably fit in there somewhere.
I think making the play an error, since there wasn’t anything close to approximating an error, would’ve been worse.
oleosmirf
6/6/2010-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
I hope we never ever see Maine or Ollie again. Obviously they will be back but considering how bad they have been, Dickey and Takahashi need to bomb before we see them in rotation.
Right now, Misch, Gee and Stoner should be ahead of them on depth chart
stickguy
6/6/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
Ollie wil be back at some pint. ANd when he does, he will end up making starts (he will not be coming back to be buried in the pen again, unless it is September!)
And Ceetar, the rules don’t say he has to be back in a couple of weeks. Just that he has to be on the DL for AT LEAST 15 days, but he can stay there for the rest of the year if needed. He does have to come back up after IIRC 20 days of starting rehab games.
for the bonus question, no, the official scorer should not reverse that, since there was no (player) error involved. That would take it from honest human error (part of the game) to flat out cheating.
oleosmirf
6/6/2010-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
so what if in 15 games, all 5 current SP are pitching well? Do you hurt the team and put in Ollie who is almost an automatic loss
johan4cy
6/6/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
Did you ever consider that he wont be an automatic loss after his injury heals?
oleosmirf
6/6/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
i dont believe he is actually injured
johan4cy
6/6/2010-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Ok, well there is a possibility he isn’t, but with all the time off he’s getting (I assume he will stay on the DL for more than 15 days if things keep going the way they have) I think he wil be able to put it together. Remember, there is a reason why he got that contract. He is actually a good pitcher, or has shown many signs of it, anyway.
oleosmirf
6/6/2010-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
he got that contract b/c Omar got desperate.
ceetar
6/6/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
That’s false actually. If he appears in a rehab game, while he doesn’t have to come back, he can’t play in any more rehab games, per MLB rules. Think its either 20 or 30 days. Castillo ran up against it in 2008, and it’s part of the reason he struggled when he returned. So unless they never even try to have him pitch to batters again, he’ll be back.
oleosmirf
6/6/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
does extended ST or intra-squad games
ceetar
6/6/2010-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think so. But extended spring training only lasts so long before St. Lucie is “A Ball” I think.
Mr North Jersey
6/6/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Here is the statement from John Ricco.
“Basically he’s on the 15 day DL and there’s no maximum period of time that he could stay on there or no minimum. Once he’s ready to begin playing baseball games the options would be to either reinstate him directly which you can do
as sometimes happens or have him make a rehab start if he was OK with doing that. The way we did with Jon Niese he went and made a start for Buffalo. So you know a lot of that will play out depending on the systems and how he’s feeling but in the short term he’s gonna to go to Florida and get some work done on the knee.”
So according to Ricco there is no max time he could stay down there and Olllie would have to give consent to play in rehab games. Ollie just may find himself down there for a while especially if he decides he does not want to pitch in any rehab games to show the Mets he is ready.
ceetar
6/6/2010-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Right, the time limit doesn’t kick in until he plays in the rehab game for the first time.
They could just ‘bury’ him in PSL and never have him pitch in games (Extended Spring _does_ end.) but if that’s what the goal was they’d have just released him. so he’ll progress to a point where they’ll have him start rehab games, he’ll consent because that’s the process to get back here.
Mr North Jersey
6/6/2010-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed which is funny because in the end he will have to agree to play in rehab games down in the minors anyway. Which is what the Mets asked him to do from the get go.
ceetar
6/6/2010-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
well, this is the best solution anyway. While I think rehab games would help, he needed a fresh start, and some mechanical work, and to be away from Warthen. So some of that ,then some refresher starters and hopefully righted by then.
Mr North Jersey
6/6/2010-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
Anything that got rid of him was the best solution.
johan4cy
6/6/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Yes, we will see ollie again, hopefully a bit better than what we have seen
And no, there was no error on the play so you can’t call one. I think they should overturn the call now, though.
Kingman 26
6/6/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
I do think we will definitely see Ollie again, even if not till next year.
And official scorers have zero power to overturn umpires’ calls; so that would be irrelevant here.
Kingman 26
6/6/2010-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
I did not phrase that correctly—an official scorer would never and could never rule a clear hit an error; it would be overturned after the game.
Definitely no cause for an error there.
And for the record, I think an NFL-style replay system with maybe 2 challenges a game is definitely needed in baseball.
Some of the excuses even Darling and Keith have made against it have been ridiculous.
As in so many other areas, baseball lags behind the other major sports–and especially the NFL–in making change for the better.
rustyjr
6/6/2010-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Hey kong – I have Craig swan & Stanley Jefferson references in my column lol
Kingman 26
6/6/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
I am on my way to read it!
rustyjr
6/6/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
I hope the next time we see lie perez we will be shelling him against a visiting team
metsfan4decades
6/6/2010-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
I really have no idea if we’ll see Ollie back this year. My guess is yes. And it’s in the Mets best interest to do everything they can with Ollie as the better he pitches, the more depth we have. We kind of stuck with that contract this year so the FO has some responsibility here.
As for instant replay…..that was a crying shame on that call the other night but I’m of the mindset of the instant replay they’ve instituted now is enough. It’s the game of baseball, it’s part of the charm.
I will say this….SNY booth had an opinion about the umpiring across the league these past few years that made good sense to me. Said it hasn’t been the same since the umpiring strike where they fired all those experienced umps and hired replacements. And the reason they feel that way is umps start out in the minor leagues. The minor leagues treat umpiring like dime store clerks. They make very little money, don’t invest in comprehensive training and by nature they’re not attracting good talent. Start paying them better, training them better so when they’re promoted to the ML, we should see a better crop of umpiring across the board.
Kingman 26
6/6/2010-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Wow, for a rare occasion I sure disagree with you here.
What happened with that perfect game was “part of the charm”?
Boy do I completely and very respectfully disagree.
I think it is a joke; as was the call I very clearly remember in the 1985 WS which literally turned the entire WS and gave the Royals a crown they probably should not have.
And that kid pitched a perfect game. It would have taken 3-4 minutes tops for an ump to look at a replay on a TV screen 2-3 times as they do in the NFL, and then the proper result would have resulted.
I definitely agree that the quality of umpiring in baseball is abominable, especially when compared to NFL refs, and considering that NFL refs have 22 guys in motion to watch, all of whom can effect a play or commit a penalty, the constantly blown calls in baseball–when 1 or more umpires are watching the action centering on 1 or 2 players almost always–make something of a mockery of the game to me.
How often are plays at first missed? How often are stolen base calls wrong? Plays at the plate?
I am very pro-replay, if it is done just like the NFL. The only wrinkle is what the penalty would be if a manager uses a challenge and loses; in the NFL you lose a timeout. Maybe in baseball you get 2 challenges a game, and if you are wrong and lose your first one you lose the second one? I like it.
ceetar
6/6/2010-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
I hate the NFL replay rules. Can you say snoozefest? Part of the allure of baseball is that it’s about talent and ability and there is no clock management. You can lose an NFL game on something as trivial and mundane as not calling time outs to stop the clock properly. It’d be like Jerry Manuel screwing up the lineup card and the opposing team being awarded an extra half inning as a result. Ridiculous, and has nothing to do with talent facing talent.
As this applies to replay, is that you’d start getting ridiculous things like delay of games. Quick pitches to get the game going again (negating the possibility of review) or a guy taking off for second afterwards on the same note. You’d have an announced batter refuse to step into the box while th manager is back in the clubhouse looking at replays to decide if he should replay it or not. Pitchers would refuse to throw a pitch, having numerous catcher meetings while this went on. So no, reviews would just not work, because no one would ever get the review wrong as they’d already have reviewed it themselves. Then you’d get coaches calling a review split seconds before a pitch is thrown “Icing the pitcher” so to speak. gamesmanship, that has no place in baseball (or Football, stupid stupid rule)
Would a 5th man in the booth reviewing things ala Hockey work? No, probably not. It would take out so much from the game. Managers wouldn’t need to argue calls. But it would get sketchy with advancing on the play moves, which I guess you just wouldn’t be able to review? What if Pagan’s triple play the other day was reviewed to be a trap? who’s out? who’s not? What if a runner had tagged up and scored on the play? so many actions are contingent on the instantious call on the field. A review would make things worse in many places.
that said, I think I could get on board with some sort of “game-ending” reviews, such as in the perfect game, or the play at the plate as a winning run.
Kingman 26
6/6/2010-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Ceetar, you make an excellent argument, I must admit.
I guess I would like to see a VERY limited system, if possible, where only certain plays may be judged by replay, or even maybe only plays after the 7th inning?
Something like just 2 challenges a game, and if you lose the first one you lose your second one? Maybe the umps only can call for a challenge in the 9th?
To me, situations like the lost perfect game w/2 outs in the 9th, or the Denkinger call in the 85 WS (sorry if you are too young to know that one too well!) simply should not be a part of the game.
To me, it is not charming, it is ridiculous.
I also very much believe that talent should win out, and I think a properly thought-out and instituted replay system could enhance that.
Mr North Jersey
6/6/2010-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
Baseball is a game full of human errors from called 3rd strikes to safe or out calls at the plate. Each mistake once made changes the next like a butterfly effect.
It is as old as baseball itself the fact that it happened in the perfect game for the world to see was sad but it’s part of the game and I like the game the way it is.
The amount of bad calls has gone up in recent years to an all time high. That is what needs to be addressed in my opinion.
MLB needs to fix the quality of umpiring to the standards of years ago where such blatant missed calls were rare to see unlike now where it has become commonplace.
metsfan4decades
6/6/2010-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
That was my point too. Instead of trying to compensate for the poor umpiring we’ve been seeing these past several years, how about we increase the quality of the umpiring? Maybe it would reduce these blatant mistakes and only the bang-bang calls would be questionable.
whataputz
6/6/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
Even with instant replay, in Football and basketball there are still plenty of errors. How many bad pass interference calls do you see, or bad holding calls, they don’t reverse those. They don’t reverse bad foul calls.
I don’t think there should ever be full on instant replay, but I wouldn’t be against some kind of challenge system. Maybe if u get the first one wrong you lose the second like king said, or if you lose the second you lose one the next game. I’m sure there could be better solution.
Kingman 26
6/6/2010-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
I agree.
The umpiring is so bad, I think something should be done…the NFL system is not perfect, but I think it makes the best of a tough situation.
metsfan4decades
6/6/2010-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
Ha! No problem with the disagreement. That’s what’s great about this blog.
Well….what if that play at first was in the first inning? And he was perfect the rest of the way? And the proposal was only one challenge per game? No way a manager is going to challenge that in the first ’cause he doesn’t have the crystal ball telling him his pitcher was on his way to a perfect game.
There are just so many doors that would open with more instant replay. Where do we draw the line? What if that game ended, the manager realized that play in the first would have made a difference but he didn’t challenge it then? Would they then graduate to letting you have one challenge after the fact?
Maybe over simplified examples but you see where I’m going here. I wouldn’t jump up and down if they did change the rules but my vote on it now is no.
I think it’s a crying shame he didn’t get that perfect game. If they do change the rules though for circumstances such as this one, I hope they don’t keep morphing out to other scenarios where we’re all watching baseball for 5-6 hours every night or are waiting for some after the game ruling to determine the outcome of a game.
Kingman 26
6/6/2010-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
“Well….what if that play at first was in the first inning? And he was perfect the rest of the way?”
Holy crap, that’s a good point!!
Glad you’re here MF4D.
I don’t know HOW to answer your point, it is so damn good!
Mr North Jersey
6/6/2010-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
The best thing that could happen to Ollie is that another pitcher gets either hurt or is struggling pitching. That way the Mets can have a reason to put him back in the starting rotation.
It’s sad to say that but it’s true.
If the Pitchers are still pitching well after 15 days lets say since it seems to be open to debate how long he can stay on the DL. I can only imagine the uproar in NY to add Ollie in place of a starter and to have him go out and still struggle.
Of course that is assuming the worst the other side of it is Ollie actually does get better in 15 days and comes back to being a dominant lefty starter but somehow the latter seems hard to believe.
If Ollie is hurt or not I can’t say but I find it a tad too convenient that he woke up Friday with discomfort in the knee. I remember Friday night’s post game with Jerry and they asked Jerry if they had any resolution this time on the roster move and he said he had no resolution at this time. Yet it was reported yesterday that Ollie had went Friday for an MRI and somehow that went under the radar without being reported till Saturday morning.
IN NY I always find it funnt when something is kept out of the media without so much as a rumor.
whataputz
6/6/2010-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
The question is what do you do after these 15 days? Send Santos down? Send Ollie down?
Mr North Jersey
6/6/2010-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
see my 1st comment above.
whataputz
6/6/2010-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
And on a side note, I read that Hanley Ramirez is leading off today….is this right?
GravediggerHebner
6/6/2010-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
I think we will see Ollie again, unless the decision is made for further surgery. My wild guess is in a roughly a month.
As far as the official scorer in the perfect game, I watched an interview with him on the MLB Network the night of that game. He stated that by rules he has/had every right within 24 hours of the last out to change the scoring of any play in the game, provided he had evidence that suggested he should.
The MLB Network guys then, live on the air, showed him several replay angles of the pivotal play at 1B and he concluded right then that he would not change the scoring because in his opinion no error occurred on the play. So it’s legal and possible but unless he were corrupt he couldn’t do it because there simply was no error.
As far as replay in baseball the last thing I want is dugout based challenges. If they are going to change anything about how replay is utilized in baseball I would prefer a system involving a 5th umpire, in the press box, with access to multiple replays. He would have a system of communication (Nextel phone? radio? chip implanted in their brain?) with the on-field umpires to immediately alert them to an error so they could institute a correction.
But it would have to be IMO like football in one respect, it would have to happen before the next play starts or it’s too late. So if I were the pitcher of a team that had just received the benefit of a bad call I would take the mound and throw a pitch ASAP thus eliminating the chance, and if I were the next hitter I would step out and adjust my package giving the upstairs ump more time to check. But by rules the hitter eventually has to step in the box so the time for this change to occur would be very short and once it passes, tough luck. The game is too long as it is.
Bottom line I’m not in favor of what I just outlined above. Some games have lots of cameras everywhere in HD, some have fewer cameras, some are not in HD at all, and there are even some games that are simply not on TV, what do you do then? So unless/until standardized TV coverage exists for 162 games of all teams, I want no more replay than there already is today.