- A Met player in the post reportedly claims Oswalt would be willing to come here
- The Mets have signed 4th rounder Cory Vaughn, 15th rounder Tillman Pugh, 9th rounder Jacob deGrom and 19th rounder Jonathan Kountis. 40th rounders Brock Stewart and 42nd rounder JJ Franco (son of John) both have indicated they will not be signing.
- Sickels on the Mets draft
“COMMENT: The Mets are usually conservative in the draft. I rated Harvey as a late first round talent, and since he won’t be cheap to sign, it is a bit of an unusual selection for the Mets, granted his upside is high. Forsythe, dan Dekker, and Peavey are OK picks but not spectacular, all possible role players. Vaughn is a high-risk/high-reward player but I like him in the fourth round; he could be very good if he can cut back on the strikeouts a bit. Picks seven through ten are actually pretty interesting: four live arms that are fairly raw but could be very good if refined properly. Overall, this class is another so-so outing for a team with the financial resources to make a much bigger splash.
There were better players than Forsythe still available in the third round, for example: Austin Wates, Zach Cates, Aaron Shipman, and Chris Hawkins were the next four choices in the round, and I can’t see how Forsythe is a better prospect than those guys except for a lower price tag. If they really wanted a college catcher, Micah Gibbs was still available. I’m not trying to pick on Forsythe; he’s not a bad prospect, but I just think the Mets need to be more aggressive. They have the money, there’s no excuse not to.”
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2010/6/13/1516247/new-york-mets-draft-review
Buffalo-
ss Justin Turner 2 for 4, 2 2b, .286
1b Mike Jacobs 0 for 4, .265
rf Val Pascucci 0 for 3, 3 Ks, .208
cf Fernando Martinez 3 for 3, run, 2b (7), BB, .280 (Nice!)
c Josh Thole 2 for 4, .261 (hitting a lot better since an AWFUL start to the year)
Dillon Gee 4 IP, 9 H, 8/7 R/ER, 1/3 BB/K, HR, 4.99 era, L (6-4), (has been absolutely awful lately)
Jose De La Torre 3 IP, 2 H, 2/1 R/ER, 2/3 BB/K,
Mike O’Connor 2 IP, H, K, 3.86 era
Bing-
ss Luis Hernandez 1 for 4, K, .287
rf Nick Evans 1 for 4, 2b (17), .271
lf Lucas Duda 1 for 4, 2 Ks, .286
dh DJ Wabick 1 for 4, run, K, .257
3b Eric Campbell 3 for 4, run, 2b (6), HR (2), 2 RBI (16), .333
1b Mike Nickeas 1 for 4, K, .283
John Maine 4 IP, H, 2/5 BB/K, 0.00 era, 2:4:5 (threw only 87-88 according to the papers)
Brad Holt 1.1 IP, 4 H, 6 ER, 3 BBs, 10.20 era, L (1-5), (Either he is hiding an injury or Holt is headed toward “bust” status)
Manuel Alvarez 0.2 IP, H, K, 5.40 era
Clint Everts 2 IP, 4 H, 4/3 R/ER, BB, K, HR, 7.18 era
111 comments
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
Well, if Roy Harvey will come here, he should easily be target one.
FAR better than Cliff Lee, AND signed through 2011 w/club option for 2012, at somewhat reasonable dollars. 15 mil, 16 mil, 16 mil, which is less than Johan and would be less than Lee most likely, in dollars and years, and again, Oswalt is better than Lee.
Put Roy Harvey in our rotation with half his starts at Citi?
Oh man, the Float might be needed THIS year.
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
I agree and have been high on Oswalt. He’s a perfect fit, financially, talent, signed for a couple years…
Astros need infield help badly and talent ready for the majors. Tejada fits nicely there. I’m sure Tejada, Fmart and Gee would get it done. They’d ask for more, we’d barter down, etc. etc.
stickguy
6/14/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Tejada and Gee are reasonable. Not F Mart too. Substitute a AA guy, say Campbell.
Not saying the Astros will do it, even to save 20+ million and get some prospects. But, given this physicial (reproted) condition, seems reasonable for a salary dump.
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
OK, leaving the negotiating to you. Now, get it done!
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Roy has all the signs of entering his decline. If he’s better than Lee, and I don’t think he is at this point, it is certainly not FAR better.
I think Lee is in his prime and is probably the better pitcher right now and for the next few seasons.
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
“Roy has all the signs of entering his decline.”
Then why is he near career-best ERA, WHIP, and K/9 numbers this year?
Of course, the injury issue is a valid one. Lee was injured earlier this year. And is only one year younger than Roy.
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
Like I mentioned below, having Lee/Oswalt/Haren is a plus no matter who is here. That said, and I’m with you King, Oswalt is the best combination of ability, decent salary, length of contract and cost of the prospect package needed to get him. Now, just that pesky NTC to contend with.
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
As below, Kingman. 5 seasons in a row of decreased innings and increased runs. 13 starts this season v. 5 seasons? Which is more reliable?
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
Gotcha, but you are cherry picking a bit here sir.
He still goes out 30+ times and averages 6.5 IP per start (except last year), and his WHIP and K/9 have most definitely not decreased except for downticks in 2007 which were back to normal the last few years.
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
This is true.
But for 16m (even for one more year), I’d like to have some comfort in knowing it won’t be a sunken cost.
To me Oswalt is on the edge of a cliff. The question is how long he will hang on as an effective pitcher before he falls flat like the stupid porno actor a few weeks ago.
I don’t know the answer and I’d rather not find out if there’s a reasonable alternative.
metsfan4decades
6/14/2010-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Gee, that’s big of Oswalt, isn’t it? I read that article. He’d be willing to come here as long as the Mets remain contenders. How could you possibly give that kind of guarantee?
I was really hoping Holt was going to be on the fast track to the MLs, but it’s not looking like that is going to happen.
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
If I’m Oswalt, I’m doing the same thing.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
The thing is if Oswalt joins the Mets, it makes the Mets real contenders like WS contenders. His contract is OK and he’s only signed till 2012 (club option). He’s still relatively young (only 1 year older than Lee and 2 years older than Johan) and knows how to pitch.
I guess the big question is when and who.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
Where was that article?
metsfan4decades
6/14/2010-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
I read it here:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/oswalt_would_ok_mets_but_CmipocrDgtnnr4uUiQkSEM?CMP=OTC-rss&FEEDNAME=
ceetar
6/14/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
If Oswalt came here and they were _not_ contenders it’d probably be in big part because of him.
*yawn*
whateve,r players will go everywhere given the right incentive.
stickguy
6/14/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Player’s usually go to a team (when they have a choice) due to the same guy: Mr. Greenbacks.
So if the Met’s say they will pick-up his 2012 option to get him to waive the NTC, well then, he will be happy to put on his I “heart” NY T-shirt!
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
I think if you read between the lines, that’s what he’s saying. Show me the “contending money!!!!”
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
Nice work Metro–these daily updates are really, really valuable and sincerely appreciated.
metro
6/14/2010-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
No problem King!
stickguy
6/14/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
If 1/2 of the reports about his physical condition are true (back/neck problems that really needed surgery, but he gets pain shots instead to get through a start) are true, then he is a major ticking time bomb.
If you are just taking on the salary, then fine, file it under the “only Fred’s money” catagory. But, if you are planning to trade major prospects, and take on high-end starter money for likely 3 years, then he is a huge risk I would prefer to stay away from.
I would easily target haren over Oswalt. And right now, Lee is a better pitcher, but I would not consider a FA deal of 5/90 for him, and certainly don’t want to mortgage the farm for a 2 month rental.
Now, if you can give Seattle equivilent talent to what thy gave up to get him (maybe Gee, Holt and an A ball OF), then sure go for it. But not Mejia, havens and F mart (or whatever craziness they would be looking for).
ceetar
6/14/2010-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
I think, and it obviously depends on our guys as well, that the name Omar may/does get might not be one of the “big” ones reported. I mean, we’ve got Santana and Pelf. Niese looks like the real deal in the sense that he’ll be competitive all season. The rest may be a little of a mess, still seems Takahashi may be best in the bullpen and may be benefiting from the pause in his delivery the first time through the league. (see how he does on Friday against the Yankees again for instance.) Dickey is hard to read. I like him, he’s doing well, but he also does let up a ton of walks and hits as per the knuckleball, and it’s hard to rely on that when you’re always one knuckleball not knuckling from giving up a ton of runs.
I think Perez will likely come back and pitch above .500 and still get booed all the way through the parade, I don’t know about Maine. I think he can still be competitive, but I’m not sure if the road to that is the road he’s on.
stickguy
6/14/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
walks? I know the few games I was watching, Dickey barely walked anyone. I think he went something like 20 innings with one BB. ANd the hits he gives up don’t tend to be long ones.
No idea if he can keep up this paice, but I certainly see enough to think he can hang as a solid 4/5 starter.
so with the other guys, a mid-rotation solid, reliable guy will be plenty.
I also think that Ollie will get some more starts at some pint, so buckle your seatbelt. At least it is possible Maine never makes it beyond the pen, other than maybe a spot start.
ceetar
6/14/2010-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
yes. He walked a lot of guys in the Phillies game, sometimes the ball just doesn’t find the plate. sometimes he d oens’t walk guys. And his hits are of the bloop variety most of the times and guys only can go 2nd-3rd.
but whenever you put guys on base you’re one mistake away from giveing up a 3-4run home run. he does throw fastballs that aren’t particularly fast. All it takes it a correct guess or a good swing or a bad pitch.
I’m not predicting anything, but I’m not solidly expecting Dickey to never haev bad games, or even to continue on this success rate. just observing and thinking.
Given how Manuel runs the team and thinks, it’s definitely possible Maine doesn’t actually end up doing much. ends up in the bullpen and doesn’t get used much, etc. who knows. I’ll worry about that if/when he’s here, which theoretically is out of Manuel’s control. Same with Ollie. It sometimes seems like Manuel (like many fans) would prefer (and sometimes puts them in this position) them to fail so he doesn’t have to deal with them.
stickguy
6/14/2010-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
only 32 innings, so not a huge sample size. But he only has 10 walks, which comes out to be an excellent 2.8/9. And his whip is under 1.4, not back for your #5 starter, especially considering how many of the hits are dink, dunks and dribblers.
Johan has 10 walks in 2 starts combined I think this year, and actually has a higher walk rate htan RA.
actually, I just noticed that Johans stats are getting scary. Better hope he is a 2nd half pitcher this year again.
1st 2 years with the Mets, his K/9 dropped to 7.9 (down from the 9+ in Minn.) ANd so far this year, it is at an ugly 6.1, and his walk rate is higher than any year since 2003.
ceetar
6/14/2010-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
yeah, Santana’s perphrial (spelling? what’s that?) stats haven’t been great. I think he’ll have a very good second half and I actually think those stats reflect that he’s “slumping” and do for better stuff based on his career rather than that he’s “done”.
I mean we don’t do this with hitters. We don’t think (well, some do) Jason Bay is going to be a light-hitting 10HR guy do we? People aren’t questioning whether Mark Texiera is just done.
stickguy
6/14/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
we shall see. But pitchers are usually looked at differently (IMO) since there stuff tends to “go” more than hitters.
ANd Santana has been King less as a met than ye ued to do.
interestingly, other than a few less hits, so far this year Santana has almost an identical K and BB per 9 as Glavine did, in 2006. when he was 40. Now that really needs to change in the 2nd half!
OH, and Santana really needs to be adding that 3rd/4th pitch to the arsenal. Maybe th cutter tha lefties love so much? Ask Neise, he can teach him!
GravediggerHebner
6/14/2010-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
The other day you complained vigorously about what you contend is Manuel’s inability/unwillingness “to adjust.”
Manuel has adjusted lineups, bench roles, bullpen roles, the rotation…what else is a manager supposed to adjust, his package?
Today you complain about his alleged putting Maine & Perez in “position to fail.”
Manuel didn’t put them in a position to fail, he was given them as members of his starting rotation and he used them despite their poor results longer than a manager of an alleged contender, a manager whose head is rather publicly on a chopping block, should reasonably have done so. He put them where they wanted to be, on the mound every 5th turn, and they let him down.
ceetar
6/14/2010-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
Disagree, but I really don’t want to rehash points I’ve already made and things I’m concerned about with two players that aren’t on the team at the moment.
But as far as adjusting, Manuel has always adjusted things. But it often appears that he adjusts thinks, or makes moves, because he thinks he should be doing something. He overmanages. Sometimes you’d be better off just letting things go. not trying to figure out when to bunt and just letting the players play. Don’t change the lineup (DH roster shackup aside) Player Tejada everyday.
Mr North Jersey
6/14/2010-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
I can see your argument about Jerry overmanaging especially if you look at how he handles the pen with pitching matchups but at the same time when you say “Don’t change the lineup” to be fair he has not changed the lineup in the past only to be berated for not doing so anyway.
Reyes hitting 3rd, Bay hitting 3rd, Ike hitting 6th, Manuel was being called out for sticking with these guys in those spots in the lineup.
So this idea that he is always changing the lineup has some truth in it but at the same time if we are honest he has also been lambasted because he sticks too long with a lineup.
It’s Lose Lose
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Jerry has made good change after good change lately.
He is using the pitchers who are performing.
He is changing the lineup in sensible ways which have clearly helped players succeed.
He has done nothing short of an excellent job over the last 3-4 weeks, and saying otherwise is simply not being reasonable.
ceetar
6/14/2010-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
well, it’s always lose lose with managers/coaches/etc.
But I wasn’t criticizing him for Reyes. I disagreed with him third, but I was fine with it. I just felt he tinkered at the wrong times. he’s too obsessed with splitting up righties. (not that I have a problem with Ike 4th, but the idea that you can never ever move him out if/when he slumps is silly. the 2b batting second thing went on too long.
Mr North Jersey
6/14/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Forgive me if I don’t agree with Jerry doing an excellent job concept.
I think the team is playing great and therefore he looks to be doing a great job.
If excellent means letting the players play then yes I will give Jerry that acolade he lets the players play.
He is consistent in getting playing time for his bench guys.
I still do not trust Jerry’s handling of the pen I simply dont believe he has a feel for them in game situations. He is more x’s and o’s.
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
Manuel has to be given credit from ANY reasonable fan for the adjustments he has made this year.
Jerry is not my favorite, but he has done, overall, an excellent job in pulling this team out of the despair which it appeared buried in earlier this year.
Warthen and Jerry have pretty much most clearly earned our respect and should be off the hook for criticism for the forseeable future.
gategem
6/14/2010-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
The foreseeable future for most Mets’ fans is a week or two. lol
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
You really think it is that long??
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
I would take Haren over Oswalt too given the age/physical condition factor (though Haren has mediocre year this season). But Haren will cost more money because of his team-friendly contract and age.
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
I would too, but the cost will be substantial for the Haren.
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Nah, gotta go with Roy.
Far better pitcher, even with some injury issues.
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
Well, injuries or not, Roy Harvey has his best ERA in 5 years, and his best WHIP and K/9 since his rookie year thus far in 2010.
Who needs Lee when you can have ROY Harvey Oswalt?
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
He’s put up those numbers in a hitter’s park, too.
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
Bingo!
Agreed.
Roy in Citi 16 times a year?
Sounds really good.
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
How did Cliff do in Philly?
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
Great in his 18 total games there.
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
Which is more than the 13 game sample you are relying in support of Oswalt.
Not to mention, Lee also pitched in the AL his entire career.
ceetar
6/14/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
From the little I’ve read of the draft reports, It seems reasonable to me. I’ve heard conspiracy theorists make cases too, but whatever. they drafted guys. sign them. blah blah and i’ll worry about it when they show up.
stickguy
6/14/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
well, I am pretty sure that you can go back a few years, and fine similar negative comments about guys like Kirk N, Thole, campbell and Neise.
I seem to recall Davis was not universally loved, and I have no idea what people thought about Havens.
Seems to me the vast majority of players picked are safe/reasonable picks for the spot they are picked at (by all teams).
But, the draftniks are infatuated by flashy, “upside” guys. The kind with a showy skill, but not neccesarily great baseball talent. ALthough maybe some of these guys they harp on are potential superstars with signability issues, others certainly are just fascinating raw tools.
and those tools guys (athletes, not BB players) tend to bust when their speed or whatever doesn’t translate into a good ball player.
You see the smae thing with the NBA draft. Showy guys like Darko get drafted above “lunchpail” guys that just know how to play the game.
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
When all this nonsense is based on speculation, you have to take all this crap with a grain of salt. I mean, Sam Bowie gets drafted over Michael Jordan. Piazza get’s drafted in the final rounds. Half this crap is guestimating and Weather man stuff. There’s a 50% chance that there will be a 90% chance of rain today…
stickguy
6/14/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
better hope prismo doesn’t see this comment!
metro
6/14/2010-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Niese was one of the last players they went significantly over slot for and Niewy was considered a good value pick from a small school. Both Havens and Davis were projected 1st rounders, they weren’t considered reaches at the time.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
the thing is Elmer Dessens is only going to pitch well for another few weeks or so and my confidence in Omar recognizing the future bullpen problem is 0.
GravediggerHebner
6/14/2010-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Sickels has one of the few positive takes on Vaughn at the 4th spot that I’ve seen. While this review overall is hardly glowing it is one of the most upbeat ones I’ve seen.
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
The draft is a giant crap shoot but the criticisms of the Mets philosophy (to focus on college pitchers and $ — which are interrelated in ways) are valid because the Mets’ philosophy all but ensures that they will not take the best player available.
Any philosophy which has an objective of not taking the best player is silly.
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
Here’s BA’s overall take on the Mets’ draft:
Rather than going cheap, the Mets led off their draft with a Boras Corp. client in RHP Matt Harvey (1), who came on as a junior at North Carolina after two inconsistent seasons. Whether Harvey will be steady enough to be a starter remains to be seen, and New York returned to its usual conservative ways after that pick. The Mets didn’t have a second-rounder, and C Blake Forsythe (3) and OF Cory Vaughn (4) have to prove they can make consistent contact. OF Matt den Dekker (5) is a senior sign who sticks out most with his center-field defense. There’s not a lot of upside in this draft, and New York didn’t even take any high-price-tag players as late-round gambles.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
the only round that really matters is the 1st…after that the overwhelming majority of players picked per round never make it to the big leagues
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
That makes very little sense.
Do you mean to suggest that all major league players are first round picks?
You can’t be serious.
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
I think he’s stating that after the first round, all subsequent rounds end up being a crapshoot.
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
The history of the MLB draft suggests that even the first pick overall is a crap shoot.
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter.
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
From 2005 to 2009 Oswalt’s IP decreased each year and his earned runs increased.
I’m not sold on 13 starts so far this season that a five year trend will cease.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
but you only have him under contract for 1.5 years.
If all you have to give up are non essential prospects lets say Tejada, Familia and Gee then its definitely worth it
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
Given Houston’s reluctance to trade veterans over the years, I’m not sure what makes you think he will be given away.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
$30M that Astros don’t have to pay.
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
I think that will be a large factor in it. I think we’ll see Oswalt and Berkman traded, possibly Myers too. My theory is they are going to trim down the salary, bring in prospects and the team will be sold. Their attendance is so down, is down right sad. You can get 4 tickets & a hot dog, soda and chips (per ticket) for $20 total. It’s a good deal… if you like crappy baseball.
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
Never stopped them before.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
But in years past, Astros did not want to break up the team. This season, they want to break up the team and rebuild.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
well that offer is pretty light but Familia is our top minor league pitching prospect and Tejada would start for them right away at age 20.
let them choose 3-4 prospects that arent named Flores, Mejia, F-Mart, Havens and Nieuwenhuis
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
You’re writing as if Houston will have no choice but to trade him to the Mets regardless of the offer.
Don’t you think someone will offer something better than a pitcher struggling at A ball and a light hitting middle infielder?
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
we got Santana for Carlos Gomez, 2 busts and Guerra who was another overhyped Mets pitching prospect.
considering how Oswalt is older, not as good and on the downside of his prime a deal centering around Tejada, Thole and Familia could get it done.
and if thats not enough, im not prepared to trade Nieuwenhuis, Flores, Mejia or F-Mart, at least not now…
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
I would be okay with trading FMart, Flores and Kirk.
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Really, bringing back up Grave’s series on trading propects for talent, I’d have to pull the trigger on a trade for any of these options. Tejada, Fmart and Gee (+a schlep) would get this done for me.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
they would want a top pitching prospect…which Gee is clearly not
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed.
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
What if the Met’s threw in about 14 of the 22 RHPs they drafted this year? kidding…
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Oswalt is a legit #2. Lee vs. Oswalt vs. Haren is arguing semantics, really. Any one of them would be great pickups. Oswalt is the most easily attainable in my mind. I’d rather have Oswalt and complain he’s only got a mid to low 3 ERA and is throwing 200 or so innings but is declining than have millwood/westbrook/etc. and complain about the same things.
Elle McPhearson is getting older too, but I wouldn’t kick her out of bed for eating crackers.
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Totally agree.
I would certainly take Haren too.
I think most people make WAY too much of Lee’s TWO (2005 and 2008) really good years in his entire career. No way in the world has Lee shown that he is worthy of the kind of deal he will clearly be after. Not even remotely close.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
he was good in 06 too but i do think he is the best of the 3…especially how sensational he has been in his 5 postseason starts.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Lee isn’t too bad in postseason either…
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
I’m not saying I wouldn’t take Oswalt. He just wouldn’t be my first choice among the names being discussed because he represents the highest risk of falling flat.
Kong: With the exception of W-L, Lee was even better in 2009 than in 2005.
So that’s two very good seasons in a row.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
But you would essentially have to give up similar talents to get Lee as you would for Oswalt. But Lee is only 2 months rental whereas Oswalt is locked up (at a relatively decent rate) for 2/3 years.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
honestly i dont think it matters which one you get. I would rather have Oswalt if it means keeping a top prospect…
Is Thole, Tejada, Familia and some other pitching prospect good enough to get one of those 3?
njstuckintx
6/14/2010-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
They won’t want Thole. Their top (only) prospect is a C. Jason Castro. But, knowing the premise of what you are offering, I would say something along those lines should work.
Kingman 26
6/14/2010-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, but Roy is signed for next year with a club option for 2012.
Lee will cost much, much more in $$$, and probably more in prospects too.
Not saying I don’t want Lee, I just think Oswalt or Haren would be much more affordable and reasonably priced, and not tie us down for 5-6 years to a pitcher who definitely also has an injury history.
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Can’t diasgree with any of that.
In the purely who is better than who discussion, I take Lee over Oswalt. But there are definitely valid reasons to select either as trade candidates for the Mets.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
I like your last sentence….
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
I think the bottom line is that Lee, Oswalt or Haren are all very good choices and definitely puts the Mets in WS contender discussion. But there are several issues.
Who do the Mets give up?
How much money are the Mets willing to take?
Will the Mets go after lesser talent like Millwood (not after what we saw), Westbrook, or Myers?
How soon will Omar & Co act?
What happens to Ollie and Maine?
I honestly think the Mets are looking for short-term commitment IF they were to trade for a SP (expiring contracts only). But not before Maine/Ollie get another try at SP which could lead up to July.
But I think the Mets need to act fast. The division is open for the Mets to take now IF Omar & co act fast in acquiring a SP. Sure the starters have done well so far, but having a legit co-ace/#2 type of SP would definitely put the Mets on top AND stay there. Otherwise, I see it as constant battle of back-and-forth between Phils, Atl and Mets.
youngvalerawest
6/14/2010-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
well said.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
i think the bullpen is a much larger problem right now…I’ll give Dickey and Takahashi till the all-star break and see if they are still doing well.
right now the bullpen is a mess and can potentially be as bad as 08 (expect we have a closer this time)
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
completely agree. if given a choice, i’d fix the BP first and then deal with SP.
stickguy
6/14/2010-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
actually, it seems that a big part of the pen problem was Jerry. and changing a few players wont change that.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-1:54pm at 1:54 pm (UTC -4)
cant blame Jerry here…Nieve, Dessens, Acosta, Mejia, Valdez don’t belong in an 8th inning role.
you need an 8th inning guy and Igarashi is really the only guy with the stuff to be one but he’s not pitching well.
ceetar
6/14/2010-1:57pm at 1:57 pm (UTC -4)
you don’t really need an 8th inning ‘guy’. you just need pitchers. although annointing one would help take decision making away from Manuel and keep him from using 4 pitchers for the 8th.
stickguy
6/14/2010-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
agreed. I am fine with a collection of “late innings guys” (as opposed to “long men/mop up guys”). Use the one that is freshest, matches up best, or whatever. The 8th inning guy just kind of happens, being the most effective one of the bunch.
that group should mostly pitch the 7th and 8th innings, if the SP does it’s job and goes at least 6.
I do agree with taking away any tinkering (decision making) opportunities from Jerry though.
No More OOGYS!
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
im not fine with it…Boston, NYY, St Louis, LAA, Tampa Bay, LAD, San Fran, Philly, Minnesota all have at least 1 very good setup man.
playoff teams dont have mixing and matching when it comes to 8th inning and on
ceetar
6/14/2010-2:15pm at 2:15 pm (UTC -4)
Philly and the Yankees do not have a very good setup man.
The Mets have a good bullpen and plenty of guys taht can be trusted to pitch well in the 8th inning.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-6:07pm at 6:07 pm (UTC -4)
both teams did last season Madson and Hughes…and the Yankees are an all-star team so their bullpen is not really important plus Joba and Madson are better than anyone in our pen besides K-Rod and Feliciano
stickguy
6/14/2010-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think th epen is a mess. ALthough it has been helped greatly recently by repeated long starts by the SPs. Funny how that makes any pens weaknesses disappear!
I think the biggest hit was the timing of an injury, and the mess in the rotation. That cost the pen 2 of it’s reliable guys (Iggy, who had captured the 8th inning job, and taka).
Even Neive had a start, after being wildly overused by Jerry.
Now that the rotation has settle in, it is a matter of getting a couple of guys back on track. Neive looked much better last time out, and iggy did too. Who knows about Valdes.
K Rod has been K rod, Pedro is fine, and elmer has been great.
If Neive and Iggy are reasonably back to normal, that is 5 deep.
valdes is trash, but replaceable. And don’t get me started about Mejia being wasted.
besides, any changes to the pen are coming from inside. Maine maybe, parnell, or a couple of other guys out of the minors.
Oh, or Taka coming back into the pen with any replacement for the rotation.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
why cant they just go out and get an 8th inning guy. You look at the best teams in baseball and they all have one. our patchwork 8th inning guy wont work…
stickguy
6/14/2010-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
not every team has a strict “you pitch the 8th and you pitch the 9th” structure.
Besides, where are they going to just “go out and get one”? Set-up men R Us? I don’t think back end relievers go on trees. Maybe they could find a team looking to dump an overpriced closer, but that guy would probably have issues (not the lest of which is a bad attitude about being demoted!)
I imagine Ariz. would be happy to part qith Qualls and his salary, if you want him.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
Matt Thornton of the ChiSox, Javier Lopez, Evan Meek, or DJ Carrasco of the Pirates.
there are plenty of guys on bad teams that are better than anyone we have on our staff…
stickguy
6/14/2010-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
are they just giving them away?
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-6:33pm at 6:33 pm (UTC -4)
no thats what in season trades are for…considering all we got for Billy Wagner was Chris Carter…i cant see it costing us anything more than Nick the Stick…
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
Cool picture… can’t believe Wright is wearing the England jersey..
http://deadspin.com/5562936/the-one-where-the-mets-get-started-early-for-usa+england
ceetar
6/14/2010-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
ahh, I was contemplating stalking them at their hotel, but I wasn’t 100% which one it was.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
That’s little weird for a grownup man to do without a kid, but I still would do that…
ceetar
6/14/2010-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
bah, growing up. I had my fiance with me. good enough no?
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-2:14pm at 2:14 pm (UTC -4)
That’s always a plus.. I would just go by myself… sneak up behind Wright or Johan.. follow them to their rooms… heh heh heh… heh… heh…
tkfj2
6/14/2010-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
Had to check out the link, before I believed you. That is a #10 Landon Donovan USA kit, it has the USA crest in the upper right hand corner of the shirt.
I would have lost a lot of respect for Dubs, if he supported those limey turds from Ingerland.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/14/2010-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
yup you are right… i just thought it was Englan jersey since they were wearing white Saturday
USA jersey was ugly..
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
that is a Donovan kit…you can tell by the logo…England’s 3 lions are blue!!!
asod75
6/14/2010-5:10pm at 5:10 pm (UTC -4)
Just read on mlbtraderumors that the Rangers and Astros have or are very close to having an Oswalt deal in place. Also interesting to see that MLB has extended the Rangers a line of credit due to their ownership situation/bankruptcy. I’d really like to see the Mets in on this, but Omar and the Wimpons will likely go for a Westbrook or Millwood, who really don’t offer a whole lot more than what the Mets already have.
oleosmirf
6/14/2010-6:37pm at 6:37 pm (UTC -4)
as much as it would be nice to bring in someone we already have 2 SP that dont fit on the team in Maine and Ollie so I cant see Omar making a move, especially since he doesnt make big in-season moves in the first place