Jun 27
This weeks question regards the return of Carlos Beltran.
Yes, Beltran playing in all his rehab games and barring a setback, he should be ready in about 15 days. Today’s question is: Do you think this team NEEDS Carlos Beltran? When he returns to the line up, does he cause more problems rather than removing them? Does he create a problem in the outfield in terms of playing time for Frenchy or Pagan?
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39 comments
steveo
6/27/2010-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
Looks like pagan might not play again today so I say yes bring back carlos. Start him back slowly and see how he does at this point in the year everyone could use some days off. If they put pagan in as a rover they could give frency beltran and bay a day off just about once a week each and that could help down the line. To begin beltran will probabley play 2 on 1 off anyway , so let’s enjoy the depth while we got it and focus on a SP for now.
dyhrdmet
6/27/2010-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
let’s assume that Angel Pagan’s injury is not serious and he’s back to normal on Monday. Then the answer is NO, the team does not NEED Carlos Beltran. They say that “it’s a good problem to have” (having 4 starting outfielders when there’s only room for 3). But for the Mets, it’s not a good problem to have. I think it creates more problems than it solves. They have a good thing going with the outfield (most days). They don’t need a rusty bat with a gimpy leg slowing it all down.
njstuckintx
6/27/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
How do they not need Beltran? At the very least he’s a valuable switch hitting pinch hitter off the bench. At the most, he’s better than Pagan, who’s been leaps better than Francouer. He’s an upgrade. Any upgrade any where cannot be a problem. Beltran’s rusty bat can’t be worse than Frenchy’s Ice Cold Bat o’ Ks.
Kingman 26
6/27/2010-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!
Of course they need Beltran.
ANY team needs a player like Beltran.
oleosmirf
6/27/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
of course they need Beltran he’s the best CF in the game and maybe when he comes back (where im sure he’ll bat 6th to start) he can help Bay get into form.
Hazmet
6/27/2010-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Totally agree, we’re talking Carlos Beltran here not some second tier CF’r coming back. Pagan’s a nice player but he is not Carlos Beltran who when right is the best CF in the game. Many fan’s will fairly ask “which Beltran will come back” and some may still be obsessing over the strike out in the 2006 NLCS but the later would ignore the facts that he’s a 30HR/100+RBI guy which is something Pagan is not. As for which Carlos returns, well we’ll soon find out. As for Pagan I love what he’s done but he’s hurt again which is his M.O. over his career which is why he is a 4th outfielder.
oleosmirf
6/27/2010-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
Pagan missed 3 games and is starting tomorrow. Wouldnt really call him injured…
oleosmirf
6/27/2010-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
well 4 games but still…not worried about him being injury prone
Hazmet
6/27/2010-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
Clarifier: his career he is injury prone, my concern is this 4 games is just the start for this season.
oleosmirf
6/27/2010-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
i think it was more precaution than anything else…im not worried about his health.
i am worried about Santana as he is just falling apart…
stickguy
6/27/2010-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
yup on Johan.
Doesn’t he have to qualify as injury prone, when he has surgery every year?
Hazmet
6/27/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
2006: Missed 2.5 Months with Cubs
2007: Coilitis = season over
2008: Season ended in July while on rehab assignment after original injury diving into the stands at Dodger Stadium
2009: Missed time starting in June with Groin Injury
The guy play’s his heart out but every year something happens whether it’s an unfortunate illness or an injury from laying out making a play. But it’s like X. Nady’s career from an injury perspective.
stickguy
6/27/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
no it is not like nady. Nady has had major structural problems (2 TJ surgeries) and is severely damaged goods.
Pagan, the groin thing last year IIRC was a minor pull. It happens.
2007 means nothing. he was sick. And while he missed time with the shoulder, there has been nothing since to indicate that it will be a problem.
SO, other than a minor muscle tweak at the moment, he is the picture of health!
stickguy
6/27/2010-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
2006 was a hammy strain. Given that he hasn’t had problems with that in the last 4 years, I don’t consider it chronic either.
Mr North Jersey
6/27/2010-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
I think you are panicking if you are going to take this stretch of games to suggest this is the same pattern as season’s past with Pagan when the fact is he was day to day and is expected to play tomorrow. Until he is put on the dl try to keep things in perspective.
It is because he is important to the team with no Beltran that they are being extra careful not to do anything that might make matters worse.
Hazmet
6/27/2010-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
Seeing I’m not going to win over any opinions on this discussion can we at least come to the conclusion that his style of play, ie Crazy Horse, leads to him not being available for somewhat lengthy periods of time? As in 2.5 months in 2006 and 2008? At somepoint a player’s available or not for a team and Angel’s track record indicates a history of not for whatever reason. My hope is we’re not seeing the start of another hard luck run for Angel with this 4 days off. Last year’s minor injury had him out from June 1 – July 10. This is why I twitch when I hear the words minor injury and Angel Pagan in the same sentence.
Mr North Jersey
6/27/2010-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
All I will say is that in years past Pagan has been injury prone.
If this year will be the same is something that even with this 4 game stretch remains to be seen.
That’s all.
Hazmet
6/27/2010-12:23pm at 12:23 pm (UTC -4)
You say things so much better and quicker than me.
Mr North Jersey
6/27/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
stickguy
6/27/2010-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
I rambled on about this someplace last night. His 2 major injury stints (outside of a minor groin tweak a couple of years back) were a case of coilitis (an illness, nothing to do with injury) and banging up his shoulder diving into the stands (again, a fluke, and nothing to indicate he is “injury prone”).
He did have something else early on with the cubs, but I don’t recall what it was, but it was a long time ago.
If he is playing tomorrow, then this was really just a minor tweak (ache/pain) that they were cautious with.
once he came back from the shoulder and started playing last year, he has been solidly playing every day.
Nick Johnson, he ain’t.
stickguy
6/27/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
yes they need him. this team is often 1 bat short. And it is usually during the long stretches where Frenchy isn’t hitting enough to be a starting OF.
as long as they give pagan the bulk of the PT, the team should be better.
And frankly, i don’t see how significantly upgrading your 4th OF (from Jesus to Carlos) can really be considered a bad thing! especially when it will be a rotation where everyone gets time, not 1 guy going to the bench to rot (although maybe I shouldn’t be too sure about that with jerry in charge).
oleosmirf
6/27/2010-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
agreed people are making way too big a deal of the chemistry thing.
a lineup of Reyes, Pagan, Wright, Davis, Bay, Beltran, C, 2B is very very good.
njstuckintx
6/27/2010-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll take that for sure. Well, ideally if that 2B is Tejada… (just getting the Castillo supporters up in arms!
)
oleosmirf
6/27/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
well Tejada is the best option but Castillo makes too much to be sitting on the bench. hopefully they find a way to move him this offseason.
stickguy
6/27/2010-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
if they want to win, they will have to overlook $ if it is justified.
Besides, no guarantee that Castillo will even be back anytime soon.
oleosmirf
6/27/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
but if he ever gets activated, Tejada will be sent down…unless of course Castillo comes back after rosters expand but it def seems like he will back much sooner than that
njstuckintx
6/27/2010-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I can’t see why they wouldn’t. Really wish you could non-tender Cora in that situation, but that isn’t happening.
If only Tejada would get rid of the pooka shells, maybe they’d keep him instead…
Kingman 26
6/27/2010-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know Oleo—Jerry keeps saying Tejada is playing every day.
I say get rid of Feliciano or Cora or Tatis. (Or ALL of them).
Seriously—keep playing the kids. The OF can be handled by the big four, Carter played a lot of 1B in the minors, and Tejada can back up Reyes. Wright never takes a day off.
darknova306
6/27/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
If Beltran can get back into his normal form and prove he’s healthy and productive, the team needs that. For one thing it means they can move a rookie out of the cleanup spot and seriously extend the lineup. Also, I know everyone loves Francoeur a ton, but I still don’t like his ridiculous streakiness as an everyday player. Having four outfielders is never a bad thing.
When healthy, Beltran is one of the best all around players in the game. How many times has the team fought back just to come up a run short? You don’t think Beltran would be worth an extra win or two at this point? I’d say he’d be a huge addition to the team if completely healthy.
stickguy
6/27/2010-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
francouer can bring all his fabulous energy to the bench. And platooning him and Pagan will maximize production, since they both have noticable splits.
plus, he will get plenty of time as a defensive replacement, when they pull beltran late in blowouts.
oleosmirf
6/27/2010-12:18pm at 12:18 pm (UTC -4)
not to mention Beltran will not be playing everyday and Bay will get days off. Francouer will still get 3-4 starts per week which is plenty…
njstuckintx
6/27/2010-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not sure Beltran is suited to jump right back into the 4 spot. I think Ike can stay there for a while. Maybe Beltran 5th, Bay 6th?
oleosmirf
6/27/2010-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
id put Beltran after Bay to see if that gets Bay some protection.
njstuckintx
6/27/2010-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I saw your lineup with him batting 6th. That works as well.
rustyjr
6/27/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
I’d rather have pagan as a platoon / 4th outfielder than having Matthews jr / feliciano as our primary outfielder – bat off the bench
metsfan4decades
6/27/2010-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
Anyone who thinks Beltran is a ‘nice to have back’ on this team isn’t paying attention.
I’m sure it will take Carlos time to get his bat timing back – just like Jose. Unlike Jose though, Beltran has been working out, keeping in shape. Jose was shutdown for weeks doing nothing but sitting on a couch. I’m hoping that translate to Beltran’s stamina should be fine, it’s just a matter of his timing.
Why wouldn’t we want Beltran back? Whether or not you think Pagan has been getting the job done, adding Beltran back into the mix can only help, not harm. No one expects Beltran to play every day, so between that, a few days platoon with Franceour and spelling Bay every 10 days or so, I think Pagan should see plenty of time to keep him fresh.
oleosmirf
6/27/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
agreed. our best lineup is pretty much a straight swap of Francouer and Beltran. easily top 3 lineup in the NL…
GravediggerHebner
6/27/2010-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
Yes I think this team NEEDS Carlos Beltran. I’m sure Johan Santana will welcome him to the offense. With Bay’s total underwhelmingness, Francoeur’s polarizing inconsistency and Pagan’s overachievement there is plenty of room for Beltran or even near-Beltran.
Kingman 26
6/27/2010-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
We most certainly need Beltran, and as I have said, I really believe having a modified 3-man platoon in CF and RF (at least for Beltran’s first 4-6 weeks back) is the way to go.
Pagan and Frenchy’s splits show that they are MUCH more productive facing lefties and righties only, and Beltran having 1-2 days a week off can help him stay healthy and ease back in. And also hedges our exposure to Frenchy’s ridiculous hot/cold nature.
In addition, it puts an excellent PH/bench player on the bench every day.