Okay lets get down to brass tax,is there something wrong with Johan Santana ? Is this sex scandal affecting him ? Is he hurting , but is too much of a warrior to admit it ? Or are we just blowing his last few appearances out of proportion? If I could cast a vote, I would go with we are blowing this out of proportion. Yes Johan didn’t look sharp for the most part yesterday, but he did settle down after that shaky first inning against the Twins. And when you think about it , with the exception of the blowout against the Phillies last month, In his losses , Johan pitched solidly with the exception of one inning in those games. Take last week with the Yankees, Johan pitched three scoreless innings, until the fourth when a couple of infield gaffes coupled with the Mark Texieria grand-slam sealed the Mets fate for the game. I think another issue is that Johan might be trying to hard to be as perfect as possible because of the lack of run support that he has received of late. Let’s face the fact the 2-1 loss to the Brewers and the 1-0 loss to the Padres can rattle the confidence of almost any ace pitcher. I know Johan has three years and countless millions left on his contract, but lets not put the cart in front of the horse yet. I don’t think we have seen the last of Johan being a top notch starter. All we all need is a little patience.
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                                                          It’s not time to throw in the towel on Johan !”
And with that said…. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Birthday wishes go out to one time power threat- outfielder Jeff Conine is 45 (1966). He came to the Mets as a power bat off the bench , but unfortunately both his power and his defensive skills had severely eroded.
Reserve infielder, Ricardo Jordan is 40 (1970)
Utility infielder, Chris Woodward is 34 (1976) .
New York Mets signed free agent Ed Kranepool on June 27, 1962. Ed would end up being the longest tenured Met of all time – 17 seasons.
New York Mets released pitcher, Tom Sturdivant on June 27, 1964.
New York Mets signed free agent pitcher, Roy Lee Jackson on June 27, 1975. We would end up trading him in 1980 for Bob Bailor, and Jackson would pitch for another six years.
And Mo Vaughn was very disappointed yesterday when he saw Prince Harry of England throw out the first pitch – He thought he meant the Prince of Pop and Funk !!
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                                                           ” Mo swears allegiance to Prince Rogers Nelson !”
23 comments
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/27/2010-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
Okay Now I’m officially worried about Johan. If his struggle is because he’s still recovering from the surgery, why not DL him? I guess there’s no one to take his spot at this point, but perhaps trading for Lee and then DL him.
stickguy
6/27/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
you forgot to mention that he is now on the wrong side of 30, right? And he is not a huge dude. lots of people seemed to write off mejia as not being a viable SP since he is too small,so why doesn’t that apply to Johan too?
still not sure why he would not have better stuff this year after getting his elbow cleaned out. I still remember in ST him being giddy with how wonderful his arm felt, how he could get full extension again, etc. But his velocity did not go up at all, and his control is worse?
I think (guess? suspect?) that he has another injury that will eventually come to light, when they announce the surgery.
and doesn’t someone that gets surgery every year have to qualify as injury prone too?
stickguy
6/27/2010-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
OH, but no matter what you think of how Johan is doing, he hasn’t been anywhere near as bad as A.J Burnett!
could be why there is an article over on spyder about the Yankes scouting Haren (the guy the mets should be getting).
stickguy
6/27/2010-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
saw this snippet on the piece about haren, a quote from Ken rosenthal. If Haren is even vaguely close to a buy low (or even doesn’t require an overwhelming package) the mets better be in on him, and hard.
If the Yankees end up with him for a couple of B prospects, I might tear all my hair out!
“One surprise from Rosenthal is his sources stating that Haren isn’t “at the top of anyone’s list†and is “just another name.†If that is the case, knowing how hard lined teams are with prospects, will Arizona have to give away Haren? If so, this is a clear opportunity for either local team to swoop in and buy low on someone that has top of the rotation stuff.”
njstuckintx
6/27/2010-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
I’d take “just another name” in a heartbeat!
metsfan4decades
6/27/2010-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think there is one clear cut answer to Johan’s struggles this month.
He admitted he was still ‘recovering’ from the surgery a couple of weeks ago. Listening to that interview, I took that to mean since he altered his mechanics second half of last year to compensate for pitching with pain, he’s still trying to correct that.
Given the fact his FB doesn’t seem to have the velocity it used to, I’ll go along with mechanics and longer recovery time from that surgery. Yesterday, he said after the first he told Rod, the fastball/changeup wasn’t getting it done and he had to start mixing in the slider, which apparently he must have b/c the subsequent innings were fine.
So constant tinkering trying to get back to where he was I think might be starting to take it’s toll. That and he may never have the velocity back where it was will necessitate permanent changes Johan may not be used to yet.
stickguy
6/27/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
eventually, all pitchers (at least the ones that don’t break down completely) have to recognize the changes that come from getting old. Some adapt, some don’t.
Pedro had to do it. heck, Tom Seaver had to do it.
You add a pitch of two, and learn to work around not having the old power. Maybe not become a complete junkballer, but at least accept the fact that you can’t live as a power pitcher anymore.
some guys are able to make a relatively smooth transition, and other fight it hard (and some never give in). Those are the ones that don’t last.
Will Johan have to make the transition into Tom Glavine over the next couple of years? Who knows if he will have to. Or even could.
But, glavine was able to be quite successful for a lot of years without the stuff that Johan used to have. Not worth 25million a year, but at least still valuable.
metsfan4decades
6/27/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. As you said, most pitchers as they start to age have to make adjustments – ala Pedro. The smart ones make the adjustments. I’d put Johan in the category of smart pitchers.
And not all surgeries to all pitchers are the same. For example, take Pavano. Gary asked Keith yesterday in the booth what he thought was the biggest change in Pavano from his days of a Yankee with that contract they gave him. Keith said, ‘he’s finally healthy, that arm is finally just healthy. It was never a question of his stuff’. Not comparing the two, but I believe that’s Maine’s problem in a nutshell also. His arm/shoulder just is not healthy. Will it ever be healthy enough to pitch is anyone’s guess but look at Pavano. He never gave up and is having some good success this year.
And speaking of aging pitchers and surgeries….have to say it: Congrats to Billy Wagner on his 400th save. Now there’s a pitcher with two TJ surgeries on that arm, one at almost 37 years old where he came back to pitch exactly 12 months after the surgery. Anyone paying a bit of attention this year will see he’s still throwing a 97/98 MPH FB. Each person has different results from what apparently is the same surgery. Just no way to predict these things…
GravediggerHebner
6/27/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with some of the above opinions – it’s not one thing. I certainly think it’s not the recent coming to light of his infidelity, though that might be another straw on his camel’s back. I think it’s age, post surgery, gradually declining stuff over the years, total career workload, tipping pitches, lack of run support, and so on.
He’s still very good he’s just not the stud ace with the plus fastball that he was in the mid to late 2000′s that we are paying him $25 million to be and it’s precisely because of that I feel so strongly the Mets need to concentrate on younger and/or more cost effective pitchers as additions to their rotation. I know I keep repeating myself but it’s counterproductive for the Mets to continue to pay pitchers for their past greatness.
I think they can afford to do so with Johan (anyway they have no choice now) but not another one too.
In summary if they add a top dollar big time pitcher I will be very very surprised.
GravediggerHebner
6/27/2010-1:18pm at 1:18 pm (UTC -4)
Gotta watch the game but first wanted to leave this info. I know ERA is not the be all, end all measure of a SP but I find this interesting. 14 NL SP have an ERA under 3.00, they are:
Jimenez, 1.60 ERA, 26 years old
Garcia, 1.79, 23
Johnson, 1.83, 26
Halladay, 2.29, 33
Gallardo, 2.36, 24
Wainwright, 2.47, 28
Hudson, 2.54, 34
Carpenter, 2.63, 35
Pelfrey, 2.71, 26
Cain, 2.72, 25
Richard, 2.75, 26
Lincecum, 2.86, 26
Leake, 2.92, 22
Latos, 2.93, 22
Only 3 guys over 28 in that bunch
Mr North Jersey
6/27/2010-1:22pm at 1:22 pm (UTC -4)
when you see things like this it makes me more angry that Mejia’s development as a starter was sidetracked to pitch out of the pen.
Mr North Jersey
6/27/2010-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
Well, maybe not angry but disappointed.
GravediggerHebner
6/27/2010-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
As you probably imagined I would, I appreciate your changing that.
Have I shared my thoughts on annual innings progression with you? If so I apologize for repeating myself.
I have read that organizations like to increase their starters annual workload by roughly 30 innings. I don’t have winterball or AZ fall league stats but Mejia’s straight minor league innings were:
2008 – 72
2009 – 95
plus whatever he did in Winter/AZ
This season he threw 27 with the Mets. Now he’s in Bingo and I checked the schedule, if he makes a start every 5th game until their season ends he will make 15 starts.
For easy math lets say he averages 5 IP/start, that’s 75 IP plus the 27 he already has equals 102. Their regular season ends 9/6, maybe they make playoffs or maybe Buffalo does and they put him there for a couple more starts, or maybe he comes up to the Mets in Sept and either starts or pitches out of the bullpen for a few more innings.
Either way he has some innings left for AZ or winter and he pretty much stays on a 30 IP annual progression.
Had he been in Bingo all season he would have already made 15 starts (based on Mike Antonini who has been there all season and made 15) which means the Mets would be about to shut him down at worst, or about to subject him to some “Jenrry rules” at best, skipping starts, pulling him out early, so on.
This way he just gets to pitch, I’m not angry or disappointed about Mejia’s usage in 2010.
I respect the idea that you may not buy any of this stuff but I do and I think Mejia is close to where he should be in terms of annual IP increase, maybe a little low, but if he is able to average 6 IP/start instead of 5 then he’s right there.
Mr North Jersey
6/27/2010-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
Grave honestly I don’t buy it but I will concede that you may be right.
I just am too lazy to sit down and look at a large portion of Mets starters development to say that what you suggest is what the Mets actually are doing with their starters.
In any event what I think is not important. What is important is that Mejia is getting an opportunity to start again and if as you suggest he is on schedule that is great.
I simply can’t get past that Mejia in the pen was an attempt to fix a weakness they had at a time that was never part of his scheduled development.
GravediggerHebner
6/27/2010-4:06pm at 4:06 pm (UTC -4)
A fair statement with which I cannot argue. Even though I feel as though it worked out OK (not great, not badly, just OK) I can’t say it was part of a grand plan.
Of course this injury news may throw a monkey wrench in the discussion.
stickguy
6/27/2010-1:31pm at 1:31 pm (UTC -4)
Mejia? I was against it from the start, and think that Jerry did not use hm right.
But, now that he went down, given he would be limited in innings anyway, I don’t think it will really hinder his development at all. Hopefully he takes what he learned with the Mets and builds on it now.
stickguy
6/27/2010-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
interesting. And of the 3 old guys, 2 of them were at one point injury wrecks or discards. At least Carpenter was a scrap heap guy essentially, and Hudson missed major time with injuries. So to some extent, you never know!
Kingman 26
6/27/2010-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Too many injuries which have diminished his velocity. No doubt about it.
He cannot get guys throwing 89 when he used to throw well into the 90s, and his change is not nearly as deceptive with the seriously decreased difference in velocity between it and his fastball.
And maybe he also is tipping his pitches as has been suggested.
Anyway, he surely will adjust and still be valuable, but his days of 2003–2008 dominance are over.
stickguy
6/27/2010-1:28pm at 1:28 pm (UTC -4)
He has had at least 3 surgeries that I know of. 2 in the last 2 years, and 2 on the same elbow. That has to take a toll.
It seems to be more than just velocity. His change does not seem to have the same movement, and there does not seem to be the consistant look to the FB and CU (so hitters really don’t know what is coming). Now that part might be mechanics. And certainly could qualify as tipping pitches.
Look, right now, if he could adapt himself into 2008-2010 Petite, or 2006-2007 Glavine, and stay healthy, he would still be a great asset to the rotation.
Not an Ace, and not worth 25mill, but at least valuable.
Kingman 26
6/27/2010-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
Completely agree, especially with the last sentence.
And this will clearly be the last kooky contract the Mets give a pitcher; as it should be.
whataputz
6/27/2010-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
Is it too much to ask for Jason Bay to actually do something productive?…not for the Twins, but for the Mets.
Kingman 26
6/27/2010-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
We are definitely approaching the point where it is time to ask that.
I think the team’s overall success the last 6 weeks is all that has been preventing his being booed and more seriously scrutinized.
Mr North Jersey
6/27/2010-2:01pm at 2:01 pm (UTC -4)
agreed