"Mets goin' down down"
The New York Mets got out to an early lead but starter Hisanori Takahashi got spun right round by the Florida Marlins offense in the bottom of the 3rd inning and the Mets mounted a late comeback but couldn’t get ahead and ultimately fell 7-6 to Florida.
Early in the game the Mets had their eye on victory over Florida
As they did so often on their last road trip the Mets took the lead early. In the top of the 1st Angel Pagan received a nice ovation from his family and friends in the Hiram Bithorn Stadium stands then hit a single. David Wright then singled moving Pagan to third base from where he scored on a Jason Bay sacrifice fly for a 1-0 Mets lead. In the 3rd inning they extended their lead. Ruben Tejada led off with a single and moved to second base on a sacrifice bunt by Takahashi. Tejada scored on a double by Jose Reyes and Reyes advanced to third on the throw in from left field. Pagan hit a sacrifice fly to drive in Reyes and after 2 1/2 innings the Mets lead 3-0. But they quickly got spun right round.
Uggla batty
Takahashi got the first 2 batters out to start the bottom of the 3rd inning. Then things got ugly. Opposing starter Nate Robertson singled to center just under Reyes’ glove. Takahashi walked Chris Coghlan, then Gaby Sanchez singled to load the bases. All-around good guy Hanley Ramirez cleared the bases with his 12th homer and it was 4-3 Marlins. The next batter, Jorge Cantu, doubled. Then a guy homered and his name is Dan Uggla. His 15th homer of the season plated Cantu and gave the Marlins a 6-3 lead after 3 innings.
Mission Improbable indeed
Then the Mets began their improbable comeback. In the 7th Fernando Tatis led off with a double that knocked Robertson from the game. Jeff Francoeur greeted reliever Tim Wood with a single to put runners on the corners with no outs then Tejada plated Tatis by grounding into a fielder’s choice to make it 6-4. In the 9th inning the Mets gave their fans some real hope. Florida closer Leo Nunez (3-1) came on for the save and Rod Barajas greeted him with a single. Pinch-hitter Chris Carter doubled to put runners on second and third with no outs. Alex Cora pinch-ran for Carter. Francoeur then grounded out as Barajas scored to make it 6-5 and Cora moved to third. Josh Thole pinch-hit for Tejada and singled past a drawn-in infield to plate the tying run but Nunez settled down to retire the next 2 batters and the game was 6-6 going into the bottom of the 9th.
Show us your Kraken!
Pedro Feliciano (2-3) came on for the bottom of the inning but unfortunately he would be facing exclusively right handed batters, and as Eric Simon of Amazin Avenue noted via twitter in a timely fashion, this is something Feliciano is not good at. Feliciano got the first batter, weak hitting Emilo Bonifacio who came up as a pinch-hitter, to strike out swinging. Then he got Ramirez looking and one thought he might run the gauntlet. But Cantu doubled to center then Uggla singled to drive him home with the game winning run. Marlins 7, Mets 6.
64 comments
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-10:55pm at 10:55 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I am most definitely back on the Float, driving it with ramming speed, and fully laden with catatonic optimism.
Even in a loss, a ton to love about this team.
They never give up, we tie the game with the bottom of the lineup, keep the game close after Taka’s horrid inning, etc.
Call me a bit nutty, but while I would love nothing more than winning at least a WC spot this year, next year is going to be worth waiting for no matter what.
If we get Cliff Lee as a rental, well, then I think the Float may be retrofitted and sped up even more.
stickguy
6/29/2010-11:13pm at 11:13 pm (UTC -4)
don’t forget though, if you get lee, it will take a serious hit to your kiddie corps.
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-11:22pm at 11:22 pm (UTC -4)
If we can keep Ike, Niese, Mejia, Tejada, and Havens, I say go for it.
My mantra has always been no Niese, no Ike, and just one of Mejia/FMart.
I really like Thole though. I think he is going to exceed expectations.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-10:56pm at 10:56 pm (UTC -4)
Well, that was damn disappointing….
This was mostly on Taka however…I do not understand the use of KRod in the 8th inning. Have no way of knowing if it would have made a difference or not but bottom of the 8th, we’re still down a couple of runs. Why use KRod there? Why not use Pedro? Then KRod could have pitched the 9th and we go from there. I had no problem with any of the other moves there in the top of the 9th. Although, since we only tied, and had Pedro not giving up the game winning run, we really didn’t have much left for extra innings.
As stated on the previous thread, we need another SP. Thanks for the effort Taka but he should go back to the pen now. We have no SP depth and are one injury away from disaster. I don’t consider Maine or Ollie depth but at this point, I’ll bet Omar does for at least Ollie. Updates given tonight on Post game for Ollie has me thinking he’ll be back sooner rather than later….
ceetar
6/29/2010-11:55pm at 11:55 pm (UTC -4)
He’ll get three starts and if he’s effective he’ll be back. If he’s not, they’ll find some reason to DL him again. Regardless, it’s silly to hope Ollie never shows up instead of that he shows up and is successful, at least to pre-injury levels, particularly with the clutchiness.
Mr North Jersey
6/29/2010-11:09pm at 11:09 pm (UTC -4)
Tough game
Mr North Jersey
6/29/2010-11:10pm at 11:10 pm (UTC -4)
Didn’t catch game till it was 6-3 Fish but as far as Takahashi is concerned all one needs to know is 6 runs in 1 inning after 2 were out 4 of those runs coming on a Grand Slam.
stickguy
6/29/2010-11:16pm at 11:16 pm (UTC -4)
I didn’t see the game on TV, but were the 2 HRs “legit” or bandbox only?
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-11:16pm at 11:16 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, and that is one stat the Mets lead the league in NOT to be proud of….most amount of GS given up this year.
Meanwhile….Mets don’t have one themselves.
Mr North Jersey
6/29/2010-11:23pm at 11:23 pm (UTC -4)
What is wrong with Taka? Probably nothing maybe he just in a slump A June swoon if you wish. This is Taka before tonight’s start in June.
Generated 6/29/2010.
He has had 2 good outings in between his recent struggles when he faced the Orioles and Yanks but he is prob better for Mets long term out of the pen.
Generated 6/29/2010.
koose
6/29/2010-11:17pm at 11:17 pm (UTC -4)
Still a pessimist about this team with jerry in charge we aint going anywhere
stickguy
6/29/2010-11:22pm at 11:22 pm (UTC -4)
well, I am not a jerry fan, but they can win anyway even with him in charge. It will just take more work to overcome him, but if they win, it will be despite him, not because of him.
gategem
6/29/2010-11:47pm at 11:47 pm (UTC -4)
You can overcome a weak manager if your talent level overwhelms your opposition or your players have career years. But if your talent base is comparable to the teams you’re competing against and your players are performing at their expected level then poor decision making by the manager can cost you enough games so your team is on the golf course during the playoffs. But teams can win with an acknowledged weakness at the helm. Look no further than the Oakland A’s that won 102 games in 2001 and 103 games in 2002 with Art Howe.
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-11:22pm at 11:22 pm (UTC -4)
Wrong.
Nice insight though.
youngvalerawest
6/30/2010-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I wouldn’t come running to Jerry’s defense after last night’s bullpen management fiasco.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-11:18pm at 11:18 pm (UTC -4)
So….on Sports Night tonight, Dykstra finally admits, after years of denying it, he used steroids back in the day. Needed to get a good contract with the Phils, so he says.
Doesn’t surprise me….
prismo
6/29/2010-11:25pm at 11:25 pm (UTC -4)
I believe he was on the Mitchell report, so no surprise there.
stickguy
6/29/2010-11:26pm at 11:26 pm (UTC -4)
talk about something that was a no brainer.
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-11:31pm at 11:31 pm (UTC -4)
And next, right after the break, Buster Olney admits he makes things up!
oleosmirf
6/29/2010-11:22pm at 11:22 pm (UTC -4)
i know i said it in the dugout but that was before i realized it was the bottom of the order in the 8th and top of the order in the 9th.
K-Rod definately should not have pitched in that spot…
koose
6/29/2010-11:25pm at 11:25 pm (UTC -4)
Jerrys lack of faith in his team lost this game
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-11:29pm at 11:29 pm (UTC -4)
Or it could be the grand slam and 6 run inning.
Nah, it’s Jerry’s fault! It’s Jerry’s fault!
koose
6/29/2010-11:32pm at 11:32 pm (UTC -4)
This run inning was erased in the top of the 9th jeryys lack of faith to bring in his closer to get work in the 8th lost the game
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-11:35pm at 11:35 pm (UTC -4)
Well, if that was a comprehensible sentence I might have a response.
koose
6/29/2010-11:45pm at 11:45 pm (UTC -4)
The 6 run inning
ceetar
6/29/2010-11:30pm at 11:30 pm (UTC -4)
close, but Jerry’s lack of faith in his team make it harder for them to win the game. Subtle difference. This team is good enough to win, but occasionally they can’t over supreme incompetence in their manager who seems to put his players in position to fail, or manages not to lose.
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-11:33pm at 11:33 pm (UTC -4)
You guys are SO right.
Jerry’s supreme idiocy clearly was responsible for Taka’s performance in the 6-run inning.
What is wrong with some of you?
Taka threw a rotten inning, the team STILL fought hard and tied it up, the pen kept it close, and Feliciano lost it.
This place is becoming like Metsblog.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2010-11:36pm at 11:36 pm (UTC -4)
why? because people dont agree with you?
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-11:40pm at 11:40 pm (UTC -4)
No, because people want to blame the manager because a starter gave up two blasts and 6 runs in one inning.
Did that have something to do with the result?
How many games are won when a starter gives up 6 runs in 6 innings?
My guess would be virtually none.
And we STILL barely lost.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2010-11:43pm at 11:43 pm (UTC -4)
so its like metsblog because people give their opinion on what they believe without having to pass through a filter of what we want them to say? Just want to clarify how someone giving their opinion makes us like metsblog? Please explain?
Mr North Jersey
6/29/2010-11:38pm at 11:38 pm (UTC -4)
Poor choice of words Kingy.
ceetar
6/29/2010-11:38pm at 11:38 pm (UTC -4)
no, Takahashi is the reason they weren’t winning already. Manuel is at least partly reponsible, in his player management, for how the end of the game unfolded, specifically using Feliciano against righties and using his closer in a losing effort (who cares if he _has_ to pitch every 5th day? Tell him to get over it and pitch in the bullpen after the game if they don’t tie it)
dirtysanchez
6/29/2010-11:41pm at 11:41 pm (UTC -4)
dont bother ceet…manuel is never wrong, its the players fault. It is their decision when they play, when they are used and in what place. Manuel is responsible for nothing, he is the best manager the mets ever had!
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-11:44pm at 11:44 pm (UTC -4)
As if I ever said anything like that.
Taka gives up just the grand slam, we almost certainly win.
Hindsight….
dirtysanchez
6/29/2010-11:48pm at 11:48 pm (UTC -4)
if anyone offers the least bit of criticism about manuel, you insult them. While you may have not said word for word, you are implying everything that i just said. Everyone has their opinion on everything, included your beloved manuel. He is not as great to some people as you give him credit for to some folks and they are allowed to voice their opinion on that.
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-11:54pm at 11:54 pm (UTC -4)
No, not true.
When people insist a game like tonight is Jerry’s fault, I think that’s just silly.
I have consistently criticized Jerry’s bunting and his bullpen use. I reamed him every day when he was batting Jacobs and other stiffs cleanup. Go back and look.
But the team has played considerably better the last 6 weeks, Jerry has found ways to maximize players’ abilities via the lineup, and he has been playing Ike and Tejada which I think is great.
His leadership regarding fundamental play, hustle, confidence, and developing young players has dramatically improved in 2010 over 2009.
Any of this make sense?
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-11:43pm at 11:43 pm (UTC -4)
Ceetar, if he doesn’t use KRod enough, he gets lambasted.
Who is to say that switching Feliciano and KRod’s innings would have turned out differently?
They have both been very good this year, and yes I know Pedro is not great against tough righties, but I just cannot blame Jerry when Taka put us in that huge hole.
ceetar
6/29/2010-11:50pm at 11:50 pm (UTC -4)
so, you mailed in the game in the 3rd inning and decided we lost. “What team wins when they give up that many” right?
Manuel did the same thing, and that’s irresponsible of a manager.
Frankie is generally more effective with more work, but there have been plenty of opportunities to do so in the past. And personal preferences of pitching have no place here. Manuel shouldn’t be allowing K-Rod to DEMAND when he pitches.
Ledger_NYMets : He had not thrown since Friday. So if he doesn’t get work tonight, then team *must* use him tomorrow.
Yet another example of Manuel being weak in the minds of his players. What he should say here: “I know Frankie is most comfortable with more work, and I want to try to get him into games more when we don’t have save situations for a couple of days in a row, but I have to make the moves that best allow us to win the game”
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-11:57pm at 11:57 pm (UTC -4)
I never mail in games, and the way the team fights back in just about every game when they fall behind is one of the very best elements of 2010 over 2009.
I agree KRod should do what he’s told, but if he continues to pitch very well when used more, wouldn’t it be better if he continues to pitch well than if he pitches like he did in the 2nd half of 2009?
gategem
6/30/2010-12:09am at 12:09 am (UTC -4)
I didn’t see very much of the game but I can’t believe Jerry brought K-Rod in to get work in the bottom of the eighth with the team down by only two runs. At that point the game was still winnable. I have too give Jerry credit for the team’s attitude, hustle and strong fundamental play. But at times his on-field decisions can be perplexing.
Kingman 26
6/30/2010-12:11am at 12:11 am (UTC -4)
Gategem I always appreciate your perspective, which I know comes from decades of knowledge.
However, doesn’t everything you are saying make a lot more sense now because we scored 2 in the 9th?
And KRod DID pitch a good inning and keep the deficit at 2.
gategem
6/30/2010-12:28am at 12:28 am (UTC -4)
If the team is down by four or five runs then Jerry’s decision would make sense. But the Mets lineup is strong enough to overcome a two run deficit and you want the closer available if you tie the game or go ahead. Even bringing your closer in to pitch the bottom of the 9th in a tied game has been a point of discussion among baseball fans for many years. On the road I’ve seen many a manager hold out his closer hoping his team will go ahead and end up never using him. But I’ve rarely seen a manager bring in his closer in the bottom of the eighth, with the opposing team in front, to hold the game close and surely he does not bring in his closer in that situation just to make certain he gets needed work.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-11:47pm at 11:47 pm (UTC -4)
I’m starting to get the impression Jerry does cater to KRod a bit too much.
KRod just needs to come in and do his job. He’s the closer. If it’s 5 days between in game work, so be it. If Jerry is going to try and get him some work in non closer type situations, it should be in the 9th – not in the 8th in a 2 run ballgame.
I don’t know that Jerry could have predicted that Pedro would have been facing all righties (unless he was counting on KRod going 1-2-3) but either way, I didn’t like that decision. Rest of the in game decisions didn’t bother me.
And BTW…anyone else think it’s ironic KRod pitches the 8th and goes 1-2-3? Usually, we’re holding our breath in the 9th when he puts a runner or two on…
Mr North Jersey
6/29/2010-11:33pm at 11:33 pm (UTC -4)
You give Jerry too much blame just as much as King gives him too much credit.
The truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Kingman 26
6/29/2010-11:34pm at 11:34 pm (UTC -4)
+ Infinity.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2010-11:39pm at 11:39 pm (UTC -4)
agreed…at least you dont insult people as you give your pov…unlike some poeple
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-11:30pm at 11:30 pm (UTC -4)
Ha! Wasn’t it you Oleo who was telling me Krod in the 8th was the right way to go? Can’t remember now….
Either way, I agree. Too bad Jerry didn’t.
oleosmirf
6/29/2010-11:35pm at 11:35 pm (UTC -4)
it was me, and if the top of the order was in the 8th, i would still use k-rod there…
dirtysanchez
6/29/2010-11:32pm at 11:32 pm (UTC -4)
Jerry’s late game management of this one was horrendous…the players bailed him out late in the game. My head was spinning with all the moves he did just to make up for what he did earlier in the game. I dont feel comfortable with manuel managing this club…i really dont.
stickguy
6/30/2010-12:08am at 12:08 am (UTC -4)
me neither.
Mr North Jersey
6/29/2010-11:50pm at 11:50 pm (UTC -4)
So getting back to the good points of the game.
A.) Wright’s 3 for 4 has him at .310 for season.
B.) Tejada’s 2 for 3 has him hitting .270 for season.
C.) Parnell continues his shutout streak since being called up.
Honorable mention for The Animal and his double that would of been atriple if Barajas wasn’t in front of him. Hang in there kid I still believe in you.
ceetar
6/29/2010-11:52pm at 11:52 pm (UTC -4)
Did Tatis end up finally getting a hit after 40 days? I herad the double in the car, but it sounded very error-like.
dirtysanchez
6/29/2010-11:54pm at 11:54 pm (UTC -4)
it was…bermuda triangle in the outfield and the ball fell. Mis communication between ugly and stanton
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-11:54pm at 11:54 pm (UTC -4)
I missed it as I lost power here for an hour during the game. Had a battery operated radio on and Howie Rose said something like the double was a ‘gift’ and after the way Tatis has been hitting, he’ll take it.
Mr North Jersey
6/29/2010-11:55pm at 11:55 pm (UTC -4)
Damn Tatis did have a double.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-11:52pm at 11:52 pm (UTC -4)
Wonder why we’re still carrying three catchers thereby one BP arm short anyway? Is Barajas/Blanco still considered banged up some? Are we show casing Thole?
Inquiring minds want to know….
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-11:56pm at 11:56 pm (UTC -4)
Or…is Pagan hurting more than they’re letting on and they think they need another bat more than another BP arm right now? If yes, why use him but then have to PH ’cause he can’t bat from the one side? Now…if they do have to DL him, they can’t retro it back several days.
stickguy
6/30/2010-12:09am at 12:09 am (UTC -4)
wow. missed that part. if that is the case, he should not be playing at all.
I hate this carrying guys day to day for 10 days, and being short for it, instead of putting them on the DL and biting the bullet to get them healthy.
stickguy
6/30/2010-12:13am at 12:13 am (UTC -4)
there is a bright side I guess to today’s BP mismanagement.
K Rod’s “make work” inning doesn’t count against his vesting option allotment!
Hey, maybe we should make him th e8th inning guy, and use someone else to close, just to make sure they aren’t paying him 17.5mill in 2012 to give us agita!
CaseStreet
6/30/2010-2:16am at 2:16 am (UTC -4)
Why the hell is Lee pitching 3 straight complete games? Can the M’s try to save his arm a bit?
Also, those HRs off Taka were pretty cheap.
youngvalerawest
6/30/2010-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
Kong:
With all due respect, you’re ignoring the possibility that there were multiple causes for the Mets’ loss. Taka was not solely responsible. In fact, he was off the hook when the Mets tied the game and then had another opportunity to win.
It’s speculation to say that someone other than Feliciano would have shut the Marlins down in the ninth but the fact of the matter is that Feliciano gets wrecked by right handed hitters to somewhere around a .300 average and Jerry had to pitch him in that spot against some very good right handed hitters. The result was certainly foreseeable. Anyone would have been more comfortable with Pedro facing the righties at the bottom fo the order that K-Rod faced, rather than the likes of Uggla, Cantu and HanRam.
Pitching K-Rod in the 8th was almost a concession that the Mets could not overcome just a two run lead. That’s ridiculous.
In the end, Jerry was willing to employ a bad strategy to avoid a confrontation with a player whom he allows to dictate his moves.
Not good.
Kingman 26
6/30/2010-2:11pm at 2:11 pm (UTC -4)
Well, your points make a lot of sense, but I still think there is some validity to the idea that Jerry felt KRod had to be used (especially as we have our best chance to win tonight with Pelf and he might not be needed.)
In addition, while I wish KRod could just do as told, if he really is going to suck in the 2nd half if underused, I guess he has to be used.
Also, maybe part of Jerry’s thinking was use your best reliever in the 8th to keep the game close.
And while Feliciano may never be very good against righty bats, I can see some validity in continuing to give him a shot and see once and for all if he is more than a lefty specialist.
But overall, I still think the main culprit for the loss was Taka’s really rancid inning.
I do, as always, appreciate your wise perspective.
Sure, maybe I give Jerry too much credit, but I feel we gave him too much blame in the past.
The improvements all over the place, to me, do somewhat compensate for his sometimes questionable strategy.
youngvalerawest
6/30/2010-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
I will reluctantly agree that if we are to blame Jerry for things like what occurred yesterday that we have to give him credit for the overall state of the team.
On that basis, we have to say that his positives outweigh his negatives right now (even if I don’t necessarily agree with it — the proof, I guess, is in the record and nothing else matters).
Kingman 26
6/30/2010-3:48pm at 3:48 pm (UTC -4)
That is precisely what I have been trying, in my frustrated and annoyed way, to say.
It is a pleasure knowing that there are some people here who can consider that this may be true.
I never say Jerry is a brilliant strategist, but I don’t think all successful baseball managers are. The improvement in fundamentals, the hustle, the regular comebacks, the development of youngsters—all of this has to be looked at as a massive improvement over last year, and I think that, bunting and bullpen management aside, all of this may indeed be the positive part of Jerry putting his stamp on the team.