First off , I guess we had to expect R.A Dickey to falter sooner or later, Just wish it wasn’t on a night that the Braves won. At least the Phillies lost.
Well here we are at the end of June, and who would have thunk it early in the season that the Mets would be in second place just a game and a half behind the Atlanta Braves. Let’s face it , although our starting rotation has for the most part held up better than expected we need a front of the rotation starting pitcher. As we all know , the two leading candidates that us Mets fans are salivating over are Cliff Lee & Roy Oswalt ( with Dan Haren and Ted Lilly on the periphery). But the question is do we sacrifice a player – Jenrry Mejia ,who is being projected as a solid starting pitcher for Cliff Lee – who would by all accounts would only be here on a rental basis only – or Oswalt , who has two years remaining on his affordable contract – but is injury prone? I admit that I am leery of trading Mejia for either of these two pitcher, because my memory jumps back to the Octavio Dotel for Mike Hampton trade – or even the Frank Viola for Rick Aguilera deal. I know Dotel never truly lived up to his potential, but he turned out to be a strong cog in that Houston Astro bullpen, while Hampton guided us to the World Series but left when ownership and General Manager – Steve ” I’m a douche” Phillips low balled him , essentially opening the door for the Colorado Rockies and their school system.
In terms of Viola, he was brought in during the thick of the ’89 pennant race and pitched well for us in his first 2 seasons. But he increasingly grew unhappy with playing for the Mets and was soon traded to the Red Sox, while Aggy had a long and prosperous career as both a starter and a closer for the Twins. I see Mejia as possibly being a number two pitcher when he ready to be inserted into a major league rotation , and I hate the fact that the Mets were so pig headed by keeping him up and inserting him into mainly meaningless pitching situations. How was he supposed to grow by this kind of inactivity? So at least he’s back in the minors where he belongs ( from what I understand his injury is not bad), and hopefully we will see him back in a Mets starting rotation either in September or next season.
Look , I want Cliff Lee as bad as anyone else here, I just would hope that Omar could swing a deal that focused on quantity over quality – not to fleece the Mariners – but not to deplete our farm system either.
Â
                                                                                       
                                                                                ” Is he really worth Mejia?”
And with that said… HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Birthday wishes go out to Mets pitcher from ’66-’67, Bob Shaw (1933)
Outfielder from the ’67 team, Larry Stahl is 69 (1941).
New York Mets selected Mike Jorgensen in fourth round of free agent draft on June 29, 1966. He would be included in the deal that brought Rusty Staub to the Mets, and would later finish his twenty plus year playing career with the Mets.
New York Mets purchased pitcher,Hal Reniff from the New York Yankees on June 29, 1967.
New York Mets signed free agent pitcher,Lino Urdaneta on June 29, 2005.He could throw a high 90′s fastball – just not for strikes !
And Mo Vaughn was spotted at the cock fights in Isla Verde, Puerto Rico, yesterday . He was seen with a Pina Colada in one hand and a fork in the other ( poor roosters !!)
54 comments
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-7:29am at 7:29 am (UTC -4)
Agree with all your thoughts, Rusty.
Preference is for Lee, I’d rather have him for just the 1/2 year rental and picks when he walks and hope we don’t have to give up Mejia for him. Might be wishful thinking, but there you have it.
Whether Lee or someone else, we absolutely need another SP. We have no depth and to me are one more SP rotation injury away from disaster. I know we still have Maine and Ollie but to considered them depth at this point is taking a big chance….
rustyjr
6/29/2010-7:47am at 7:47 am (UTC -4)
I’m wondering why the mets didn’t place Ollie on the restricted list like the cubs did with zambrano
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-7:57am at 7:57 am (UTC -4)
I really don’t know what Omar’s mindset is on Ollie. I guess we’re going to find out real soon, as I read he’s likely to start a minor league assignment this week.
rustyjr
6/29/2010-8:00am at 8:00 am (UTC -4)
NOOOOOO !
ceetar
6/29/2010-8:49am at 8:49 am (UTC -4)
come on, fair is fair. We have to hope that he’s got his arm strength back and can pitch effectively. He’s capable of it. No reason to root against guys to perform. If he doesn’t, they’ll shut him down again before he gets to the Mets.
oleosmirf
6/29/2010-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
b/c Ollie stinks and we dont want him anywhere near the team that has been so good since he left.
ceetar
6/29/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
false, I want the best players on the team, and if Ollie proves to be able to pitch like he (note the use of the word “proves”) did before he got injured, then I’d rather him starting than Takahashi.
oleosmirf
6/29/2010-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
well Ollie’s record the past 2 seasons have proven he is not close to the best player for the job.
now if he comes back throwing 94 then i will consider but getting results against AAA players shouldnt mean taking out takahashi who gets results at the big league level
CaseStreet
6/29/2010-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
no, they’ll let him back on the rotation and he’ll lose some key games before ending up back in the DL.
stickguy
6/29/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
because they had absolutely no justifiable reason to put him on the restricted list, and I suspect that the player’s association would have fought it big time.
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/29/2010-7:43am at 7:43 am (UTC -4)
Maybe the Mets FO are playing media game and actually want Oswalt or Haren…. nah…
CaseStreet
6/29/2010-8:43am at 8:43 am (UTC -4)
Yes. I wish Mejia a look and fruitful career, but if want to win a playoff series, we’re going to have to do better than Santana-Pelfrey-Niese. The problem is Omar doesn’t do mid-season trades for big name players, hopefully Omar has something up his sleeve.
njstuckintx
6/29/2010-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
I hope he proves you wrong, for all our sakes.
This is not a good time for the silver lining to start peeling off the Taka/Dickey cloud… It’ll be an incremental increase on what’s being asked from the Mets for every disaster that is thrown by a Mets starter not named Pelf/Niese.
CaseStreet
6/29/2010-8:53am at 8:53 am (UTC -4)
which is exactly why we need Lee or Oswalt.
*should’ve said “I wish Mejia luck”
ceetar
6/29/2010-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
vindictive today. Remember I said I got a ‘hate’ comment on my site? he registered as ceetarsatool, but I went into the database behind the scenes last night and changed his name. so there.
njstuckintx
6/29/2010-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
Maybe the tool he was referencing was some very expensive and intricate piece of equipment, used for the betterment of all mankind.
ceetar
6/29/2010-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
well, he did tell me to go shoot myself as well.
he signed the post reno911. no surprise. That was a horrible horrible show.
njstuckintx
6/29/2010-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
You know you’ve hit the big time when you’ve got an anti-fan club.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
LOL – So I guess he didn’t much care for one of your posts? He can’t be a Mets fan as the whole premise for your site is ‘optimism’. Must be a Phillies fan…..
CaseStreet
6/29/2010-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
LOL. NY1′s headline for last night’s game, “Marlins Rip Dickey”
njstuckintx
6/29/2010-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
I guess “Rip” better than “pound”.
oleosmirf
6/29/2010-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
how about Dickey pounds the Twins?
CaseStreet
6/29/2010-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
last comment for the morning,
Anyone really expect Zambrano to go see a shrink and then come back to the team like everything is cool?
I don’t, he’ll go to one meeting and then decide, “F this, I’m not crazy, I was trying to get my team psyched up. I’m not doing this crap, and if they don’t like it, they can trade me.”
there’s no reason to expect Zambrano will be a good citizen about this. If the Cubs will eat enough of his contract and take Ollie, I will gladly accept Zambrano.
njstuckintx
6/29/2010-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
I want to get rid of ollie too, but flipping someone who consistently shows they just don’t care through their body language for someone who shows they are on the verge of a multiple homicide may not be the best thing to do.
I have offically changed my vote to No on Zambrano. With so many rookies, no way I want Hannible Zambrano on this team.
ceetar
6/29/2010-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
Zambrano’s going to anger management classes. (and hey, we always have Adam Sandler here!) If he can pitch, get him here.
njstuckintx
6/29/2010-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
Too bad Jack sits in LA.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-9:09am at 9:09 am (UTC -4)
No thanks. Even if Z has more of a pitching upside than Ollie does, his problems go deeper than not pitching effectively – like Ollie. He’s also got a handicap of a anger/temper problem, which Ollie does not. Why would you want to introduce that into this clubhouse?
DNDJohan aka kistics
6/29/2010-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
I doubt that they will take Ollie AND eat some of his contract.
fongy2
6/29/2010-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
I get where yer comin’from Rusty.
Just me…I wouldn’t trade Meijia
for Lee…BUT would have to seriously consider him as a centerpiece in a Oswalt or Haren deal. Both under contract and both
top-tier Pitchers who could well put us over the top.
On the two deals you mentioned,
I agree about Frankie V., I wasn’t
a big fan when the deal went down.
Liked Aggie and thought Tapani would
be a very solid, Ron Darling type
2/3 SP. On Hampton though, I disagree. He helped get us to the Series and while I’m no Phillips fan
Hampton was never gonna re-sign with
us! I don’t recall Lil’Stevie low-balling him as much as The Rox just blowing everyone out of the water
with their offer…*8Yrs&100+Mil if
I remember correctly.
Very good comparison with Dotel and
Meijia though. They do appear very similar and I hadn’t thought of it.
At this point we don’t know if Meijia
can master secondary pitches enough
to even be a SP in the Bigs….
May end up a bad of the Pen 8th/9th
inning guy down the road.
Lastly….Mike Jorgensen??!!….
He was Doug Mienkiwicz of the 1970s!
fongy2
6/29/2010-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Should have read “Back of the BP”…..Long night!….
njstuckintx
6/29/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
You know, I must say that I’m enjoying how much the crowd is truly having a blast in PR. Bay tossed a ball into the stands after the inning was over and the guy that caught it was raising the ball in the air like a trophy and the people around him were cheering him on. Made me smile.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Can’t remember what Marlin batter it was last night but when he swung, he let go of the bat and it went into the crowd. A middle aged guy caught it and actually tossed it back. Don’t think it was anything against either team but rather he looked like he was saying something like: ‘what do I want with a bat?’
I’d take any free souvenir that came my way at a game….
oleosmirf
6/29/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
i believe you have to give the bat back no?
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
You might be right on that – I really don’t know.
I’ve seen before where a kid caught the bat (or Dad caught it for them) and they got the bat back but gave the kid other souvenirs – like a different bat, ball, etc. I just assumed that was b/c the player wanted that particular bat back but it could be they’re required to give it back…
CaseStreet
6/29/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Uggla thought he was in the javelin throw. That bat went pretty far.
rustyjr
6/29/2010-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Btw as per mlbtr
Will Jenrry Mejia’s posterior cuff strain prevent the Mets from trading for Mariners ace Cliff Lee? GM Omar Minaya obviously could not talk specifically about Lee when asked by Kevin Kernan of the New York Post “if the Mejia setback is a setback to trade possibilities.” But Minaya kept a brave face and replied, “I don’t think so because I think we have other very good possibilities.” At least one of Minaya’s current players does think the team lost its chance to acquire Lee with Mejia’s injury, according to Kernan.
Maybe there is a chance, given Ken Rosenthal’s June 19th report for FOX Sports suggesting the Mariners want young hitters in return for Lee. At that time Rosenthal didn’t think the Mets would be willing to give up Ike Davis to rent Lee. John Hickey of AOL FanHouse wrote yesterday about a consensus among Mariners insiders that the team should add talent around the Double A level in a Lee deal. More specifically, outfielders and lefthanded starters would be a good fit.
In my opinion, the Mets probably couldn’t swing a Lee trade with Fernando Martinez as the centerpiece. He’s hitting .248/.299/.397 at Triple A currently. Starter Brad Holt is struggling at Double A, though second baseman Reese Havens is raking. We heard from Rosenthal in on June 7th that the Mets are high on infielder Ruben Tejada, enough that they would be reluctant to include him in a Roy Oswalt trade. In a June 23rd article, Mark Hale of the New York Post found the Mets unlikely to include Mejia, Davis, or Jonathon Niese in a Lee offer. He opined that the Mets would have to build the deal around names like Tejada, Martinez, Wilmer Flores, Jeurys Familia, and Josh Thole. From where I’m sitting, the Mets don’t seem like the team that will ultimately make the best offer for Lee.Â
njstuckintx
6/29/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
That’s prob. the Met strength in the Minors right now. AA talent with upside. If it takes 2 of what is listed (Tejada, Martinez, Wilmer Flores, Jeurys Familia, and Josh Thole) and another (lower or a Holt or something like that) I would do it.
If the twins aren’t moving that Ramos kid, the M’s might take that. Who knows. But I would bet dollars to donuts that they wait this out a little while longer. Maybe 2 more weeks? When is the trade dead line? July 31st?
stickguy
6/29/2010-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
July 31st, yes. SO they got a month.
And entirely possible if the final offers don’t excite Jack Z., they will hold onto him, and roll the dice with the picks.
Lee is pretty cheap salary wise, so they can maintain the facade of going for it this year (hey, never know when you will pull a Rockies run, right?) for not too much $.
oleosmirf
6/29/2010-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
you cant believe anything a GM says in the press. obviously he is going to hype is prospects from here to eternity.
if the Astros want Tejada (who would be their starting SS today) Omar wouldnt hesitate to get rid of him. The only problem is we cant move Tejada until Castillo is back…
stickguy
6/29/2010-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Well, I know that many people are fixated on Lee, but I am not sure that Oswalt is a burning desire of many people. A few yes (well, you and Kingman), but not the majority. Personally, I like Haren better.
but, I suspect that the Mejia injury has probably taken him off the table as the certerpiece of a deal, and he is not going to be throw in fodder. Now, is there anyone else that would be palatable to trade in an expensive package? Guess we shall see!
I am fine with a “mid-level” guy though (guthrie, lilly maybe) if they can be had cheap in a salary dump. Because the rotation does need a shot of depth, and I think it comes by having Taka go back to the pen to shore that up.
stickguy
6/29/2010-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
another random thought (tied into the varioius osts above).
I fully expect Omar to do something. But, I now think it wil be something unexpected. That is, bringing in a player no one was thinking of, and/or trading away guys that never seemed to be mentioned.
But, 1 thing I would actually bet my own $ on, is that Ike and Neise are going nowhere, and sure as hell not for a 2 month rental of a SP.
stickguy
6/29/2010-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
talking to myself agian, but I do that a lot anyway..
For example, Eric Cambell was raking in Aa (after crushing A+), until he broke his pinky (or some silly thing) putting him out for 3-6 weeks.
Nick Evans could be considered ready to be promoted to the majors right now, and is stil only about 23.
And this guy flying under the radar (curtousy of Toby’s minors blog): Lucas Duda also went yard, his second in 12 games in AAA. He’s now hitting .304/.347/.565 in 12 games in AAA after hitting .286/.411/.503 in 45 games at AA.
And, there are other guys to consider.
I know that many fans tend to form opinions about certain guys (so and so will never be more than org. filler, Evans sucks rocks, etc.), but other GMs look at players from a different perspective.
So, maybe Seattle sees one of these guys as a viable, productive ML player in the next 1-2 years, and would want them.
Or, maybe they still think Fernando will be a star soon, and would love to snap him up (even though most posters here seem to have written him off as a bust).
oleosmirf
6/29/2010-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
i believe Thole, Tejada, Familia and Evans would be a very competitve offer for Lee.
Thole and Tejada step in and start right away, Familia is a good but expendable prospect for us and Nick the Stick is blocked by Davis but he would find a way on to their roster easily next season if not right away…
if that isn’t enough than go after Ted Lilly or Roy Oswalt.
stickguy
6/29/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
if they can get more than that on a trade or with 2 draft icks, more power to them.
I also seem to be higher on Thole than man other people are. I think he can be a viable regular catcher as early as next year (and no, the likely lack of double digit HRs does not really bother me).
Ted Lilly as a rental is also starting to grow on me. Guthrie too I could live with. As long as they come cheap.
fongy2
6/29/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
I agree totally
on Thole.
I think he’s more than viable
and is likely
to be a real solid
everyday Catcher
in the
bigs.
oleosmirf
6/29/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Lilly is going to be a type A FA so we still get the draft picks plus if he pitches well he can be resigned fairly easily.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2010-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
I certainly understand the desire to hold on to highly touted pitching prospects. For me and I think for most fans there is nothing better than rooting on homegrown players and watching them succeed at the highest level.
But to recite a trade from 1989 and another from 1999 as the reason to not make one in 2010 is just not a good enough reason for me. I have to imagine that in the interim there have been many trades of Mets pitching or hitting prospects that have not gone on to long successful careers (if we can truly refer to Dotel’s that way IMO is debatable) so I think the odds are in the Mets favor.
fongy2
6/29/2010-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
Amen……You old sage….
stickguy
6/29/2010-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
I have never really understood the fascination with home grown players. I mostly just want to see the team win, every year.
doesn’t really matter to me if the mets drafted guys originally, traded for them as a MiL guy, or got them as an established ML. I just prefer they stay away from aging, expensive LT deals for FAs.
Not because I am biased against them, but because they tend to drag the payroll and the team down, and it isn’t really a sustainable model.
saltygary
6/29/2010-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
I love the homegrown players and think about the most popular guys on the team; Wright and Reyes. Ike is definitely going to be a fan favorite as well. I like a well stacked farm but I can care less about losing Meijia and FMART if it means getting the final pieces to make a push. This isn’t 2003 when the team wasn’t in the thick of it and made a impulse trade to try and make a push. This team is demonstrating that they are for real so lets get a SP and another bullpen guy if possible. If they can do something at second then trade Buffalo away for all I care.
fongy2
6/29/2010-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
In the end, Omar is gonna hold onto
FMart too long because thats his boy
AND we’re gonna pay for it….
If any of the teams looking to move
an Ace or solid 2/3 SP wanted him
as a centerpiece, the Teflon Don should move him instantly.
I know hes only 21 BUT 5 yrs into
his career with time at every level
I think what you see is what we’ll
get with him…..David Dejesus…..
Maybe…..In another couple,three years. LH corner OFer,moderate power,
maybe 15/18HRs,moderate speed,double
figure SBs, .280type Hitter,Solid
fielder But not enough speed to play
CF everyday and a solid but not great
arm…..IF HE CAN STAY HEALTHY…..
Which to date he hasn’t shown he can do. A 7 Hole hitter on a good team…
Maybe a 2 Hole hitter on a bad one.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2010-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
I wish I had a strong argument to make against your point about Omar holding on to FMart, but I don’t.
For every replay I see of him hitting a home run literally completely out of a stadium, I have a matching report about him going on the DL.
I don’t know what to think about how his career will unfold (as far as the DeJesus reference) but I do feel comfortable with current justifications for trading him. If in 5 or 10 years we look back and say “OMIGOD how could we have traded this perennial All-Star” I will remind myself about how he was constantly injured and that his numbers were never eye-popping even when he was healthy.
metsfan4decades
6/29/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
Especially if he was part of a trade for a chip that gets us to post season this year.
We’re going to have to give up something to get something back. IMO opinion though no one who they’ve talked about being available at the trade deadline is worth Mejia and FMart together – especially if it’s Lee for just a 1/2 year or less rental.
GravediggerHebner
6/29/2010-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
Excellent point about the acquired player getting the Mets to the post season. Yeah we gave up Dotel but Hampton helped pitch the Mets to the World Series. I think that’s a worthy exchange when I consider how few times the franchise has been to a WS, let alone won one.
Add to that when Hampton left the compensatory draft pick was David Wright and I just cannot complain about losing Dotel.