What will the end of June mean for the Mets...
Coming into tonight’s game the Mets were 18-2 (.900) when leading after the 1st inning. Jesus Feliciano led off the top of the 1st with a single then moved to second base on a sacrifice bunt by Ruben Tejada. June NL Player of the Month (?) David Wright succumbed to the turn of the calendar page and struck out but Ike Davis singled to drive in Feliciano and the Mets had a 1-0 lead. Mets starter Johan Santana, who also noticed the change on the calendar, showed hints of his usual second-half uptick in form by holding the Nationals scoreless in the bottom of the 1st so the win was in the bag.
...and will it mean anything different than the beginning of July?
Both Wright and Santana demonstrated for the rest of the game that it was indeed July now. Wright went 0 for 4 and Santana threw 98 pitches over 7 strong innings, maintaining the tenuous 1-run lead until the bottom of the 7th when Ian Desmond led off with a single then moved up to second base on a sacrifice bunt by Wil Nieves. Pinch-hitter Alberto Gonzalez struck out but Desmond advanced to third base on Santana’s first wild pitch of the season. Nyjer Morgan then hit a single to drive in Desmond and tie the game at 1.
pardon my language
Then in the bottom of the 9th Pedro Feliciano (2-4), who had come on with runners on first and second with 1 out in the 8th and wriggled out of it to keep it tied, started the inning by getting Nieves to ground out. But then he walked Met killer Willie Harris. Morgan came up next and reached on a bunt single. Cristian Guzman singled to right to load the bases with 1 out and Ryota Igarashi came on in relief of P. Feliciano while the Mets brought LF J. Feliciano in from left as a 5th infielder. But Ryan Zimmerman hit a fly ball to right and the throw from Jeff Francoeur was late as the Met killer Harris scored the winning run. 2-1 Nats, the Mets 9th walk-off loss of the season.
My towel, and me (not pictured)
The same day I spent the morning calmly expressing my opinion that managerial moves are difficult to judge because there are no statistics kept on rates of success or failure related to going with or against “the book” and because I wasn’t even sure who wrote “the book” even I have to scratch my bald head after that one. There is no need for me to join the loud and plentiful ranks of people calling for your head Jerry Manuel but I can no longer attempt to defend you when you give me so little ammunition. Peter Gammons may have tweeted today that American poet Bob Dylan referred to second guessers of managers and general managers as “back seat drivers don’t know the feel of the wheel but they sure know how to make a fuss” and there is a lot of truth to that but I think I could tell that maybe a particular driver was driving incredibly unsafely even if I’d never driven before. Someone much less famous than Dylan once told me “don’t beat your head against the wall, the wall doesn’t move and your head gets bloody.”
Also Jerry you should really stop lamenting the lack of a true “8th inning guy” because I just looked it up and the Mets have allowed fewer runs in the 8th inning this season than any other inning 1-9. The only thing I can possibly say in the manager’s defense after this game is he could really use a 7th reliever in the bullpen. Otherwise, good luck Jerry, you’re going to need it. The group in your corner just got a little smaller.
48 comments
njstuckintx
7/1/2010-10:44pm at 10:44 pm (UTC -4)
Granted I didn’t expect much from the AAAA lineup they trotted out tonight, but uff da, this one hurts just a tad. Stop messing around, DL who needs to be, and hurt guys, you get better ASAP. That’s not a suggestion!
metsfan4decades
7/1/2010-10:49pm at 10:49 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. Stop playing around with going with a couple guys short for days on end.
On the positive, Pagan said he should be ready to go tomorrow.
Jerry said he hopes to have Jose back Saturday.
metsfan4decades
7/1/2010-10:47pm at 10:47 pm (UTC -4)
‘Not this S$it Again’. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
What the hell does Johan have to do to get some run support? Get the hits as well as pitch a good game? ‘Cause he really pitched a very good game.
And I see you saw Post game too, Grave. I’m getting tired of listening to Jerry whine about an 8th inning guy. Other than the closer, it’s all hands on deck. No dang reason any one of them can’t get the job done on most nights. There is plenty of different styles to choose from, depending on the situation.
And I really need to switch the channel before Sports Night comes on. I would have missed Macanamie trying to tell us this wasn’t the start of a bounce back for Johan and he’s not gonna be the same pitcher this year. This is one guy I really think takes the unpopular opinion just to be contrary. He’s one of the worst analysts I’ve ever listened to.
Yes, I’m pissed right now. This game was definitely winnable…..
stickguy
7/1/2010-11:14pm at 11:14 pm (UTC -4)
just annoint Parnell. Boom, problem solved.
Jerry should really just stop talking. Jerry should actually just go away, but no need to start that debate again!
trs86
7/1/2010-11:17pm at 11:17 pm (UTC -4)
I have no problem with that until he actually uses Parnell there and because he IS the 8th inning guy and stats show it should have been someone else OR this is the big one. They need him in the 7th and can’t use him because he is the 8th inning guy. What a crock. who the hell needs an 8th inning “guy”. You need 2 go to relievers when the game is on the line period. Does not matter if that 2nd guy gets a label. hell call him Del-monte and he can have a label.
stickguy
7/1/2010-11:26pm at 11:26 pm (UTC -4)
we have discussed before that I find the specialization to have gotten out of hand at this point.
I will accept that closers are here to stay, with all the mysterious rules of use they live by. Basically, they are the Divas of a ball club.
But beyond that, having rigid 7th or 8th inning guys, and making moves purely based on that, is silly.
Go with function. Besides closer, have long guys, short/set up guys, and if needed, oogys (which I hate). On a day to day basis, use whoever makes the most sense (based on match ups, tiredness, handedness, etc.).
so maybe 1 day parnell gets the 7th, the next the 8th. I think he can survive tht mental ordeal.
he will also know that he will pitch in a key, later innings situation, likely with the game on the line.
ceetar
7/2/2010-7:47am at 7:47 am (UTC -4)
and, try ot use relievers in a way for them to succeed. Bringing in guys, especially when they’re at best the 4th or 5th option, into situations with runners on base is giving guys that aren’t that good no margin for error.
metsfan4decades
7/1/2010-10:56pm at 10:56 pm (UTC -4)
On a humorous note, Beerleaguer’s current post is just one big, red PANIC button. That after they updated Utley is out until Sept and Schneider left the game with an injured thumb tonight.
Where’s that violin?
GravediggerHebner
7/1/2010-11:09pm at 11:09 pm (UTC -4)
I always have trouble finding that world’s smallest violin.
I think I mentioned this somewhere today but I would love to see a comparison of the 2009 Mets “games lost to DL” compared to the 2010 Phils.
trs86
7/1/2010-11:14pm at 11:14 pm (UTC -4)
I would ballpark about 25% of what the Mets had at most.
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/2/2010-7:56am at 7:56 am (UTC -4)
yeah i agree… they still have their starting CF and 1B and Rollins is not gone the whole year..
stickguy
7/1/2010-11:09pm at 11:09 pm (UTC -4)
not likely to score much with a line up of one stud, an up and down rookie that seems slightly off, a kid that can’t drink yet legally, a couple AAAA guys, one of the worst offensive RFs in MLB, and ancient catcher that isn’t know fo r his bat, and a POS that should never, ever be on the field (make him the manager though if you want).
A weak line up brings out the worst in Jerry. He seems to get befuddled by sloe games late, and even seems to panic (although he stays strangeley calm on the outside, I think he is panicking on the inside. maybe he just gets catatonic?)
I do agree the nonsense of carrying multiple players that can’t be used needs to stop. Bite the bullet if you have to after 1 day off, but once you get to some number (2?3?5?) DL the guy, and get a body up.
If everyone but Reyes is back tomorrow, that should help. ANd if they are full strength Saturday, they better hope the SP is damned good, so they can keep it ties at 0-0 until they get to the pen!
Oh, and give thole some starts since he is still up. The lack of offense from the C spot is getting frightening.
GravediggerHebner
7/1/2010-11:11pm at 11:11 pm (UTC -4)
It has been alleged (Burkhardt? can’t remember) that Thole is scheduled to start Saturday when Dickey pitches, which I find interesting not only due to the fact that he’ll be catching the knuckler but also due to the fact that the club is apparently intent on carrying 3 catchers for the immediate future.
trs86
7/1/2010-11:14pm at 11:14 pm (UTC -4)
Interesting.
Also perhaps Thole has experience catching Dickey in AAA I guess.
stickguy
7/1/2010-11:17pm at 11:17 pm (UTC -4)
diceky spent a month in AAA and thole was the primary catcher. So he probably did, unless they used someone else just for the dickster?
I am surprised they are still carrying the 3 catchers, and plan to through saturday. But, if we can go back to 7 inning+ SP outings, NP!
trs86
7/1/2010-11:20pm at 11:20 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah. I guess the thoughts are more that while Pagan is injured Jesus has to start then they want another hitter. Yeah logical they DL Pagan but I guess they do not think it’s that serious and do not think the one guy extra over those 5 to 6 games is worth losing Pagan for 14.
metsfan4decades
7/1/2010-11:16pm at 11:16 pm (UTC -4)
Can anyone explain why we are still carrying 3 catchers? We’ve already got guys on the bench hardly getting a turns at bat (see Tatis).
So…either there is more to an injury to either Barajas and Blanco we’re not hearing about or this is some attempt to show case Thole for a trade.
Either way, I agree about the way they’re handling injuries this year as well. If I guy isn’t going to be back after a couple of days – maybe 4 tops, then just DL him. I’m starting to think between some injury to one of the catchers and Pagan/Reyes they’re scared to death to put anyone on the DL unless absolutely necessary. After last year, they must be expecting a lynch mob.
trs86
7/1/2010-11:18pm at 11:18 pm (UTC -4)
I think also 4D you have to look at who is called up to replace that person. They still have to be sent back down and some of them do not have options.
stickguy
7/1/2010-11:20pm at 11:20 pm (UTC -4)
for MI, I don’t think there are any more on the 40 man. THey do have some OFs that could be called up. And RPs.
trs86
7/1/2010-11:22pm at 11:22 pm (UTC -4)
The RP would be a guy like Stoner I guess as he is one of the few with options on the 40 man
As for OF I guess they think that 10 days with Pagan and Carter is better than 15 days with Carter and Pridie?
stickguy
7/1/2010-11:28pm at 11:28 pm (UTC -4)
not even sure if pridie is back playing normally. Last I saw, he was on a rehab assignment.
I figure Acosta would be the RP coming up. Pitching well, and on the 40 man already, and can get optioned back down if needed.
probably with pagan. I guess he has played, so is closer than some of the situation last year that made no sense.
GravediggerHebner
7/1/2010-11:33pm at 11:33 pm (UTC -4)
Pridie literally went back on the DL today. He & FMart are the only 2 OF on the 40 man.
Acosta, Stoner & Valdes are the only P on the 40 man. I’m a bit surprised that Acosta isn’t up, his AAA numbers are good overall. I’m not sure if Valdes 10 days have run out until he can be recalled again without a DL move on the big club.
The only IF on the 40 man is Justin Turner.
oleosmirf
7/2/2010-8:48am at 8:48 am (UTC -4)
well with Reyes, Pagan, Barajas and Blanco banged up, the need for a larger bench is greater than carrying an extra reliever who will only pitch a few innings a week
metsfan4decades
7/1/2010-11:33pm at 11:33 pm (UTC -4)
This is true. But we’re one arm short in the BP so sending Thole down, (as long as Barajas/Blanco are fine) and bringing an arm up should mean they stay up. Unless…..they’re waiting to see how Ollie does and they’re gonna bring him back for the BP and/or rotation and Taka goes back to the pen?
Gulp….
stickguy
7/1/2010-11:19pm at 11:19 pm (UTC -4)
I have no clue. Barajas was the injured one, and he started back to back day games in brutal heat, and doesn’t seem to be restricted. And Blanco just played. So there doesn’t seem to be a functional reason.
I was liking the bench for a while. Not quite so much now.
metsfan4decades
7/1/2010-11:39pm at 11:39 pm (UTC -4)
They also said Blanco has a herniated disk in his neck he’s been dealing with for years and a week ago, he woke up with it bothering him some, which is about the time they called up Thole.
fongy2
7/1/2010-11:40pm at 11:40 pm (UTC -4)
I disagree with you all on this.
I’ve always been a big fan of carrying 3 Catchers.
Prime example why: Thole 3for3
PHing in The Marlin series.
If we only carry 2, you never see him
PHing AND rarely
do you see your Catcher PH or Pinch-Run for.
GravediggerHebner
7/1/2010-11:46pm at 11:46 pm (UTC -4)
That’s fair but do you feel that’s more important than a 7th reliever specifically on this roster?
fongy2
7/1/2010-11:53pm at 11:53 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, if the RP is an Acosta/Valdes type!
stickguy
7/1/2010-11:49pm at 11:49 pm (UTC -4)
the 3 catchers only really works if you have a 6 man bench, or one of them can play a few other positions. And of course, one of the normal bench ones can hit enough to PH!
Say Thole could play corner OF and 1B reasonably well too. That would make a guy like Carter expendable, since those are the positions he plays. Either guy could serve as a LH PH bat (different skill sets in this case of course, but you get the idea).
Hard to carry 3 catchers if that is all they can do, with a 7 man pen.
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/2/2010-8:10am at 8:10 am (UTC -4)
I think it’s a combination of show casing and also giving breaks to struggling Barajas… I heard Evan saying yesterday that Barajas has been known to have hot starts and cool down. And by having 3 catchers, it keeps Barajas a little more fresh..
trs86
7/1/2010-11:12pm at 11:12 pm (UTC -4)
On a different note: Bobby V on his Marlins courtship:
“It’s very disturbing, confusing and it was insulting at times, but it’s over.”
metsfan4decades
7/1/2010-11:20pm at 11:20 pm (UTC -4)
LOL….I recently heard the story about Gerardi’s tenure there. One night the owner was sitting beside the dugout, there was some questionable ump call in the field and he was gesturing for Gerardi to go out there and argue with the ump. Joe refused. Kind of reminded me of Steinbrenner wanting to manage his team. If the Marlins owner had any idea of doing the same thing to Bobby V., not surprised he walked. Jeeze, does the Marlins stadium not have an owner’s box?
Then again, I was wondering if they’d spend the money on a manager (that I’ll bet Bobby V. would be asking for), when they won’t spend it on the players.
GravediggerHebner
7/1/2010-11:39pm at 11:39 pm (UTC -4)
A.J. Hinch is available too, as is his former GM Josh Byrnes.
Kirk Effin Gibson is now the DBacks manager, it will make any Mets victory over them even sweeter.
fongy2
7/1/2010-11:50pm at 11:50 pm (UTC -4)
Wow!…I’m outofit!..
When did THAT happen??
Have to say though
Gibson was/is my Alltime favorite non-Met AND when Omar interviewed him b/f hiring Willie yrs ago,
I was hoping he’d get the job.
fongy2
7/1/2010-11:31pm at 11:31 pm (UTC -4)
This morning I posted “This team has
very little room for error”.
What I meant was that we need to be very careful here about giving guys
away willy-nilly for a 2 or 3 month rental and assuming this makes us a playoff team. You can see the diff in
the lie-up w/o Reyes and Pagan AND
when the SPing isn’t lights-out.
I never heard…What happened to JBay
that he wasn’t in the line-up??
And getting beat by Livan???
Also, Amazin’ how this team doesn’t score runs for Johan.
Lastly, we can talk “June” all we want
BUT this team is now 5-7 in their last
12 games!…………Not Good!
GravediggerHebner
7/1/2010-11:37pm at 11:37 pm (UTC -4)
Bay was strictly “rest.” Burkhardt said Wright is scheduled to get a “rest” day too (tentatively Sunday) during this series although he of course is going to try to talk his way into playing.
If your reference to June in your comment relates to my mentioning it in the post I agree with your point about the team’s record but I was referring specifically to Wright (who hit .400 with 29 RBI in June) and Santana who typically has “2nd half” surges not the team as a whole.
fongy2
7/1/2010-11:47pm at 11:47 pm (UTC -4)
O.K., Thanks Heb!
Have to admit I only
“scanned” your initial post. Shame on me!
Also, thanks for the JBay info, I was kinda
distracted trying to watch tonights game and to make matters
worse, I watched the Nats pre-gm. on MASN…
They never said why he wasn’t in the line-up.
Frankly, knowing he wasn’t hurt…Its easy
to see why /how Jerry brings the heat onto himself…C’mon man!..
Reyes and Pagan still out AND YOU REST JBAY??
…Just when he starts
to hit???
GravediggerHebner
7/2/2010-12:10am at 12:10 am (UTC -4)
Curse you and your scanning!
I’m just kidding.
Thank you for elaborating on the 3rd catcher vs. 7th pitcher thing.
The Kirk Gibson hiring was just within the last hour, and guess who his new GM is: ex-Met reliever Jerry DiPoto.
ceetar
7/2/2010-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
I know it’s not really worth debating this more, but the “will try to talk himself back into the lineup” thing is starting to wear on me. Is it just a factor of Jerry constantly changing his mind anyway? Is it that players know this and don’t really respect his decisions as final authority? Is it, based on some lame-brained comment he made last year, a way of ‘challenging’ players to demand to play?
koose
7/1/2010-11:51pm at 11:51 pm (UTC -4)
1 loss no big deal but the mets still have to face the great strausberg so that means a split at best. The thing is a so called winning team has to beat teams like this on a regular basis.for this reason alone this team aint goin to the playoffs and forget that we had aaaa team out there because we just lost to a aa team and whoever posted that they should just DL pagan or even reyes if they don’t come back in a couple of days I fully agree
CaseStreet
7/2/2010-12:18am at 12:18 am (UTC -4)
The great livan strikes again, though he wasn’t so great in June.
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/2/2010-8:16am at 8:16 am (UTC -4)
Either it’s an 8th inning guy or 7th inning guy or 9th inning guy, Mets need a BP guy that can keep the opposition off the board at a tied game. I mean how many games have the Mets lose in a similar fashion? Whether it is Nieve, Feliciano or Iggy, the Mets have had too many losses in a walk-off fashion.
oleosmirf
7/2/2010-8:42am at 8:42 am (UTC -4)
having a 6 man bullpen is perfectly fine for now. Considering we have lots of hitters banged up, its better to have the extra hitter than calling up a pitcher that will only pitch twice a week…
njstuckintx
7/2/2010-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
True, but if Pagan was just DL’d, you’d have your extra hitter as well as an extra bullpen arm (a la, not having to carry and extra hitter cause pagan isn’t playing anyway).
oleosmirf
7/2/2010-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
but Pagan doesnt need to go on the DL. it makes no sense to have Pagan miss twice as many games just to carry an extra body.
njstuckintx
7/2/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
I guess, but when you could have retro’d him back and get him back to 100%, the few extra games he would have missed i don’t think would have killed the team.
It’s all very armchair quaterbacking, so my opinions mean little. Just saying.
oleosmirf
7/2/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
I just dont see where the need for the 25th player has been…sure on the odd chance that we play a 12 inning game we will be at a disadvantage but i dont see how having a 25th player is more important than having Pagan in the lineup the second he can.