If you want to know more about Joe Petruccio the man behind the great sketches this season chronicling the Mets season on his blog My NY Mets Journal Blog. Be sure not to miss today’s Mets Weekly on SNY at 12:00pm which will be doing a segment on him.
Jul 24
Don’t Miss Joe Petruccio On Today’s Mets Weekly
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43 comments
rustyjr
7/24/2010-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
Did anyone else hear Steve Phillips on the fan with the shmooze ? Ugh
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
i actually think Phillips does a good job as an analyst.
rustyjr
7/24/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Well he basically said that omars hands are being tied by the wilpons to make major deals
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
sounds pretty consistent with all the other “experts”…where there’s smoke there’s fire…
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
I did not hear Phillips. I did just hear someone (Jayson Stark? not sure) say that the Mets were never/are not real players in the big name pitcher deals (Lee, Haren, Oswalt). Also said that Omar has a “deal on the table” for Westbrook but that “some of his baseball people” don’t feel that’s enough of an upgrade.
I know Oleo disagrees but I’m inclined to agree with “some of his baseball people.”
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
i do not believe the Wilpons have any desire to add a substantial amount of salary during this season.
I believe they have the money but they don’t want to spend it…
stickguy
7/24/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
well, westbrook is not really any kind of upgrade. He does add depth, and puts another arm into the BP, but overall, I can’t see it being a real difference maker.
but, one key question is, how much of a difference are they looking for? 1-2 games (like 2007-2008)? 4+ games to get into the dance? a horse to carry them through the playoffs?
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
the Wilpons are not going to spend 6 mil dollars for an additional 1-3 wins. As long as the Mets have a chance at making the playoffs, that is enough for them…
They haven’t done it before and I wont believe it until I see it…
metsfan4decades
7/24/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
I just caught the Joe P. interview. Yet another big NY Met fan – with talent.
And I’m glad I missed the Phillips segment with Steve S. Love the shmooze but Phillips, not so much. Unlike Oleo, IMO more than half the time Philips doesn’t know what he’s talking about. That rant early ’09 season on ESPN that night regarding Beltran says all you need to know about Phillips.
How would he know Omar’s hands are tied by the Wilpons or more to the point, to what extent? I’m sure most GMs have their hands tied to an extent by ownership. After all, it’s not their money and if money was no object, they’d all be going after the best talent…
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
because despite his faults, Phillips knows exactly what it’s like to be in Omar’s shoes plus he has friends/collegues in the business who know.
until i see the Wilpons do something more than their 1 and done big FA splash, I will continue to believe that the Wilpons lack the burning desire to have a winner. The owners don’t have the same desires as the fans.
I dont see the wilpons committing that much money to any player for a rental. They don’t think it’s worth it.
stickguy
7/24/2010-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
the mets are a business and an investment. And should be run that way. The team is not a toy or a hobby.
gategem
7/24/2010-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
The Yankees in the late 1960’s and until Steinbrenner purchased them in 1973, were a pathetic to mediocre team and their attendance was poor. Their attendance was also weak during the 1980’s when Steinbrenner threatened to move the team to New Jersey. Indeed their legacy did not put people in the seats when the team played poor baseball. The following article from Newsday, which I post because many of you don’t subscribe to the website, explains how Steinbrenner’s sports entertainment business acumen made the club what it is today, a revenue generating machine. In the sports entertainment business Steinbrenner put the other owners to shame.
Originally published: July 13, 2010 10:55 PM
By ANDREW SMITH andrew.smith@newsday.com
“As anyone who’s seen the iconic New York Yankees hat on the streets of Paris or Sydney knows, the franchise under George Steinbrenner was a success far beyond the corner of East 161st Street and River Avenue in the Bronx.
“He bought the team for $10 million†in 1973, said Bruce Johnson, a sports economist at Centre College in Kentucky. “Now they’re probably the most valuable franchise in professional sports in the country, if not the world.â€
In its annual assessment of baseball franchises, Forbes magazine calculated that the Yankees are worth $1.6 billion, almost as much as the second- and third-most valuable teams – the Boston Red Sox and the Mets – put together.
Despite often being ridiculed for his spendthrift ways when it came to acquiring high-priced free agents, economists said it paid off for Steinbrenner. It led to victories, which led to championships – which led to strengthening the Yankees brand and increased income.
“George Steinbrenner spent a lot of money – but he got it all back,†said economist Andrew Zimbalist of Smith College in Massachusetts. “He gets rewarded for spending money. It was spending for the sake of winning.â€
Particularly after free agency, Steinbrenner recognized that simply by being in New York, he was sitting “on top of the richest entertainment market in the world,†Zimbalist said. He showed other sports teams how to go after commercial opportunities.
Johnson said Steinbrenner was a master at exploiting the value of cable television. “When he recognized the advantage of having his own network, that’s when the value really took off,†Johnson said.
Steinbrenner first struck gold with a 12-year, $486-million deal with the Madison Square Garden Network in 1988. Then in 2002, the Yankees started the YES Network with other investors. That deal has been worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
As a result of the team’s success, it squeezes far more from the same market than the Mets do, Forbes reported.
The Yankees bring in $55 per fan, compared with $32 for the Mets. The Yankees get $839 million of its value from the New York market, and the Mets get just $380 million from the same market. And the Yankees brand management is worth $328 million, compared with $158 million for the Mets.
Steinbrenner’s savvy capitalization of Yankees success boosted all of baseball, Zimbalist said. “It had been a sleepy sport until George Steinbrenner came along,†he said.
Economists said there has been no evidence that Steinbrenner’s health-related absence from the team or his death will have an effect on the team’s fortunes. “They’re still the Yankees,†Johnson said. “They’re still in New York.—
Kingman 26
7/24/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
As much as I hate to believe this stuff, if we don’t make any sort of serious addition, especially considering how much we are still in the race, and considering how payroll is a lot lower than last year, we must face it that this will undoubtedly be true.
Why else would they not be trying to make a serious upgrade?
rustyjr
7/24/2010-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
So are you guys dating that you wouldn’t be pussed if the yanks or phils got eiTher harem or oswalt ?
stickguy
7/24/2010-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
maybe the phils, since the mets are competing with them.
I don’t care what the yankees do.
Kingman 26
7/24/2010-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
LOL! Are we on the same Parade Float wavelength, or what?
Good call, Sikct.
Kingman 26
7/24/2010-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
I am dating that I would be VERY pussed
if the Phils got Haren, and would frankly be mortified if they got Roy Harvey Oswalt.
As for the Yanks, I really just don’t care much about them anymore except when they play the Mets (or are in the WS when I root for even the Phils against them).
I think the Yanks are a joke with their spending and are making a mockery of the game, and the more they lap the field in payroll, the closer a salary cap comes to making baseball much, much better, a la the NFL.
rustyjr
7/24/2010-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Damn I phone btw kong u like my mo Vaughn for last night?
stickguy
7/24/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
well, maybe people get spoiled/confused by having the yankees nearby?
Don’t all teams have a budget? and BB is a business, and few owners (at least the normal ones) will open up the checkbook excessively.
So, I don’t think it makes the wilpons evil or cheap if they won’t authorize an additional 10mill in payroll, if that is above Omar’s “allowance”
one thing to keep in mind is that the Mets tend to have a high payroll from day 1. So, this may eliminate some flexibility to add to id mid-year, but logically it makes sense, since you get more value from the beginning.
None of us know exactly what the mets financial situation is, or what Omar can do now. But I really don’t see the Wilpons as being any different than other owners (current teams, or anyone likely to buy the Mets).
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
what bothers me is Mets trimmed payroll this season by roughly 23 mil dollars (15.5%) this season.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/new-york-mets.html
rustyjr
7/24/2010-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
Not accusing the wilpons of being cheap but you gave to admit this team needs another starting pitcher and it seems they are reluctant to let Omar go after a high priced one
stickguy
7/24/2010-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
Again, there is no proof that it is the $ holding back any trade, as opposed to the cost in talent.
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
To me if you believe that the Wilpons are financially ok and everything is fine then there is no excuse for them not being able to “afford” Oswalt. That would still leave them with a much lower payroll than last season.
I just don’t understand why the “budget” is so low given the last 3 underwhelming seasons…
metsfan4decades
7/24/2010-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know if it’s that ($$ consideration) or Omar doesn’t want to pull the trigger on the prospects being asked for in return. I get the feeling there is money for the right deal but Omar is reluctant to part with many prospects.
And I’ll give Omar credit for passing on the $$ and 4 years it would have taken to get Lowe. He’s not been close to worth it and has 2 1/2 years more on that contract.
Of course, as a result, we signed Ollie, which is even more of a sunk cost at this point….
stickguy
7/24/2010-1:13pm at 1:13 pm (UTC -4)
well, revenues must be down, with ticket sales off, right?
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
attendance won’t go up until the Mets make the playoffs…regardless of what they do in the offseason, the fan base wont be happy they see this core group of players get into the playoffs.
stickguy
7/24/2010-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
since some people seem to be obsessed with the phils, they are also budget capped.
there was also a piece in the philly paper that they are way toward the bottom in terms of (not) spending money in the international FA market.
entirely possibly they have fully maxed out spending (since they sell out every game, there really is little room for them to increase revenues).
what this has to do with anything, I really don’t know.
metsfan4decades
7/24/2010-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
Maine had arthroscopic surgery yesterday to remove scar tissue in the shoulder and is done for the season.
I’m thinking more like he’s done as a Met…
rustyjr
7/24/2010-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Phillips intimated that Omar is a agresive g
and he has been very non agressive of late and he attribuites it to the wilpons – damn I hate Steve Phillips lol
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
for example if Omar turns down a guy like Oswalt or Haren or anyone else for else that matter b/c he doesn’t want to trade the farm, i will support that 100%.
If they wont make a trade b/c of the money, then I would be f’n pissed and rightly so.
metsfan4decades
7/24/2010-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
Latest per MLBTR:
ESPN’s Buster Olney says the Yankees do not value Haren as much as they did Cliff Lee, and they consider him a risk because of his performance this year (Twitter links). Hence their reluctance to take on Haren’s entire contract and deal a boatload of prospects.
******************************************
Omar might feel exactly the same way. Sometimes, it’s not just about the money…
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2010-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
I certainly can’t question your right to be “f’n pissed” in the case you describe.
But I can question how any of us would ever know precisely what the Mets motivating factors would be in perusing or refusing any trade. I think we’d all be making at best educated, at worst uninformed, guesses.
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-1:49pm at 1:49 pm (UTC -4)
correct but i wont blow off Steve Phillips as being “uninformed” just b/c he did a bad job as GM and b/c of his personal issue.
all these reports say the Mets are not looking to add “significant payroll”. could it be that the Mets are just saying that to get a better return, possibly but I just don’t understand how it could be true.
personally I dont think we can compete with the other teams, without trading for farm, for Oswalt or Haren b/c our pitching prospects absolutely suck outside of Mejia.
rustyjr
7/24/2010-1:55pm at 1:55 pm (UTC -4)
I wouldn’t say gee sucks
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-2:03pm at 2:03 pm (UTC -4)
he is not going to help you get a premium player in return…
GravediggerHebner
7/24/2010-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
Just as a general comment I would like to say that the concepts of just because someone has money they must spend it and if someone is not spending money they must not have any are ludicrous and preposterous not to mention stupid and insulting.
Suggestions such as these are supported by what I think is called in legal circles circumstantial evidence.
metsfan4decades
7/24/2010-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed.
I’ve yet to see any evidence the Wilpons are broke, the Wilpons have put the breaks on spending money or the Wilpons are cheap.
In fact, the Wilpons have said on more than one occasion this year that Omar will get what he needs. I’m not saying it’s going to be a bottomless pit of money to spend but I still think it’s more Omar’s reluctance to give up several top prospects and not Wilpons won’t let him spend any $$.
rustyjr
7/24/2010-1:44pm at 1:44 pm (UTC -4)
Btw Jim bowden concoured with Phillips on sommers show
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
there is a difference between being broke and not willing to add significant payroll.
I dont think they are broke, i just believe the “budget” this season is too low…
metsfan4decades
7/24/2010-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
If the Mets can’t or won’t add to payroll, why wouldn’t they just come out and say that? In fact, why would the Wilpons come out and say the exact opposite – or just not comment at all? If what Phillips is saying is true, then he’s saying the Wilpons are lying.
Up and down the league team’s ownerships/GMs have admitted to wanting/needed pieces but being hampered by budget considerations. It’s admitted to all the time.
I’m just not buying the ‘speculation’ by the likes of Phillips and others right now. When the Wilpons stop saying Mets can spend, when Omar turns down deals that were more than doable, then I’ll start buying into the speculation.
rustyjr
7/24/2010-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
Just playing devils advocate but can the mets say that they are willng to add payroll – and still not do it you know kinda say they will evn though they gave no intention too ? They gave done that before and hid behind excuses see mussina and vlad
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-2:31pm at 2:31 pm (UTC -4)
the Mets had no intention of signing Vlad that offseason. They gave him an extreme lowball offer they knew he wouldn’t sign and used “his bad back” as an out.
Im not saying this is the case this past offseason but I dont believe it is that unlikely the Mets did the same with Piniero and Molina. Regardless of whether you feel they should have signed them or not, I believe they had no intention of signing either and gave offers they knew the player wouldnt accept in order to boost public relations.
oleosmirf
7/24/2010-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
why wouldn’t the Wilpons lie. If the Mets came out and said they cant afford to add payroll it would be a PR nightmare. why on earth would the Mets go out and say they cant afford to add payroll when they can just say the asking price is too high or say how amazing Mejia and the other prospects are and say they have faith in what we have.
I will take the word of all these beat writers and analysts who say the Mets dont wanna spend money over the Wilpons themselves any day of the week.