The only serious number one starter on the market and one of the very few available proven managerial successes are now gone, according to ESPN.
Oswalt: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5420095
Showalter: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5420224
Not a good day in Metdom. There surely are not many these days, and these two events leave us, once again, watching other teams improve.
Oswalt is going to join Halladay and Hamels, with Houston paying part of his salary. Could we have not competed with an offer of J. A. Happ, a single A prospect and another unnamed prospect?
This space will leave the opinions to our wise commenters. Please let us–and the Mets–know your thoughts about these happenings, which make it clear that we will not be getting a co-ace for Johan, nor we will have Buck among our choices to replace Jerry after the season.
71 comments
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
I will simply say something smooth said in the dugout.
“interesting how the phils have traded for cliff lee, doc halladay and now roy oswalt over the span of 1 year”
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-2:33pm at 2:33 pm (UTC -4)
Considering Oswalt would have been on the team for next year, alleviating 1 of the glaring holes in the Met’s suit of armor, it’s frustrating, especially considering the package that was sent. Even if the unnamed prospect is that stud 1B who hits a ton, it still wasn’t all that much considering the Astros are picking up salaray. The towel’s been tossed. I know it has, yet I don’t want to believe it. Frustrating indeed. And at the same time, not all that surprising.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
On a side note, great pitching Dickey! The Mets win a series. Whoa!
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
No, I don’t think the Mets had something comparable to Happ to trade. Not unless you’re talking about Niese, Pelf or Mejia.
stickguy
7/29/2010-2:50pm at 2:50 pm (UTC -4)
mejia is not really comparable, being a young prospect. Neise is worth way more than happp at this point.
fongy2
7/29/2010-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
I think Meijia is clearly a more valvable
pitcher to a team in Houston’s situation
than JA Happ!
fongy2
7/29/2010-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
Well I for one would have been willing to trade Octavio Dotel
…Err…Jenry Meijia to get
an Ace like Roy Oswalt!
stickguy
7/29/2010-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
this was a complete robbery by the phillies. Happ is overrated, and damaged goods. very likely he is getting TJ surgery in the near. The other 2 guys are mediocre prospects. A Gee type Sp prospect, and a young OF with speed and no pop (think bourn, who they already have).
if the phils really get 11mill back, and dont have to even pick up the option, it was a steal.
If the mets were offered the same terms, for Mejia, Cahoon and some A ball OF, then it would have been a no brainer too.
Neise is worth way more than Happ. 5 years younger, pitching well this year, and without a damaged arm.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
It’s tough to speculate how involved Omar was, but it smells awfully like involvement from his side was minimal at best.
fongy2
7/29/2010-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
As a gambling man……
THAT would be my bet!!
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/29/2010-3:18pm at 3:18 pm (UTC -4)
he’s more interested in NO ONE!
youngvalerawest
7/29/2010-3:23pm at 3:23 pm (UTC -4)
Lots of scouts really like Gose from what I’ve read and expect that he will add some pop as he gets older.
Anyway, even if he is Michael Bourn that is not all that bad of a pick up for Houston who will possibly be able to let the more expensive version go in a few years without missing anything.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-3:25pm at 3:25 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, he had like 70 steal in 50 games in A ball if I heard correctly. Just no pop in the bat.
youngvalerawest
7/29/2010-3:32pm at 3:32 pm (UTC -4)
He’s only 19 and he’s not a small guy (BR lists him at 6’1″ and 190 lbs) so there’s a good chance he beefs up.
19 y.o. who is holding his own, relatively speaking at A+. He stole 70 in 130 gms last year but this season has been an atrocious base stealer with 36 sb and 27 cs.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-3:37pm at 3:37 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, those stats sound more normal than I hear. That’s what I get for listening to local Houston radio.
fongy2
7/29/2010-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
Spot on!…And Thank You!…
GravediggerHebner
7/29/2010-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
Seems like Houston wanted someone young & cheap who if healthy could step right into their rotation. Who were the Mets going to send to fill that role, Niese? Pelfrey?
Not gonna do it, wouldn’t be prudent, not at this juncture – Dana Carvey as George Bush.
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
lol Dana Carvey did the best George Bush.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-3:02pm at 3:02 pm (UTC -4)
wouldn’t ollie, mejia, some combination for 2 of gee/fmart/cahoon/etc.etc. would have provided them their major league ready pitcher and a better package of minor leaguers than that, with Mets picking up all the salary on Oswalt? I’m just saying, they could have offered something if they got creative. Then again, it could have come down to Oswalt telling management, don’t even consider sending me to the Mets. Like the number of licks to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop, the world may never know. Nevermore. Caw caw…
fongy2
7/29/2010-3:05pm at 3:05 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah…BUT your idea
would be creative thinking…And Omar doesn’t do that!….
Juunowatemsayin’???
stickguy
7/29/2010-3:05pm at 3:05 pm (UTC -4)
yup. don’t know if the mets had any choice in the matter, and if so, did Omar just not want to play.
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
And we’ll probably never know….
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-2:55pm at 2:55 pm (UTC -4)
I think it is not unrealistic to say that this is a win now trade. With Halladay, Oswalt and Hamels rounding out the top 3 that is a very strong 3 man rotation. What if anything that does to help the pen remains to be seen as Lidge still looks like a weak link but give the Phils credit they are definitely going for it this season and not sitting back on their past success.
fongy2
7/29/2010-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
It is likely THE BEST 1,2,3
in the game…And in case you haven’t noticed, the Phils
have begun to get their BP
problems fixed-up.
Besides….The way Doc and The
lone Gunman eat up innings,
who needs a lights out BP???
stickguy
7/29/2010-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
happ, gose and jonathon villar (SS prospect, low A ball)
stickguy
7/29/2010-3:01pm at 3:01 pm (UTC -4)
oh well. ticks me off still.
but, maybe the karma gods will strike, and Oswalt will go down again with the bad back.
fongy2
7/29/2010-3:08pm at 3:08 pm (UTC -4)
errrr….Thats not exactly how
karma works…….
Just sayin’…..
stickguy
7/29/2010-3:10pm at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
fine, justice. but karma fits, in the standpoint of getting payback that you deserve!
fongy2
7/29/2010-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
Payback for what
my friend??…
Being better,smarter
and showing more
guts than us??
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-3:16pm at 3:16 pm (UTC -4)
Well, when you put it that way, yeah.
fongy2
7/29/2010-3:22pm at 3:22 pm (UTC -4)
GravediggerHebner
7/29/2010-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah!
Haven’t they learned yet that timidity and half-assedness pay off? Sillie Phillies.
stickguy
7/29/2010-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
but hey, the mets are negotiating for scott downs!
why do I expect to see them trade more than the phils just did for a RP?
stickguy
7/29/2010-3:08pm at 3:08 pm (UTC -4)
According to
Jon Heyman of Sports Illustrated the Toronto Blue Jays have asked the New York Mets for top outfielder prospect Kirk Nieuwenhuis plus another player for Scott Downs. The Mets declined the offer.
*******************
Well, I sure the hope hell they did decline that offer!
fongy2
7/29/2010-3:10pm at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
LOLOLOLOL!!!!…..
Oh….Man !!!…
Ya gotta love it!
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-3:11pm at 3:11 pm (UTC -4)
If that other player is Ollie, I’d have done it!
Toronto’s demands for Downs have been silly. Asked for Joba, straight up. I know he’s sucking like, well, let’s just say he’s been sucking a good amount this year. But even so, their asking prices are ludacrisp.
fongy2
7/29/2010-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
And can’t you just see Omar giving a better package to
The Jays for Scott Downs??!!!
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, Kinsler is on the DL and the Rangers are looking for 2B help…
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-3:50pm at 3:50 pm (UTC -4)
Anthony Gose
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=gose–001ant
Jonathan Villar
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=villan001jon
J.A. Happ
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/happja01.shtml
Happ who had a good year last season has been out for the most part this season with a strained forearm.
http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100422&content_id=9503030¬ebook_id=9503914&vkey=notebook_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi
Happ is not arb eligible till 2012 according to B.R.
Gose back in Nov 2009 was the 3rd best OF prospect in Phillies org and 6th highest prospect in Phillies org.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2010/269125.html
Neither Gose nor Villar are anywhere in B.A. Top 100 prospects list
Actually Domonic Brown is the #1 top midseason prospect according to B.A.
Jared Cosart, rhp, Phillies and Jonathan Singleton, 1b, Phillies also in the top 25.
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/top-100-prospects/2010/2610314.html
So while they gave up Gose and Happ, Gose was not their top outfielder and their other hot prospects remain intact.
It looks like a pretty good deal so long as Oswalt delivers.
GravediggerHebner
7/29/2010-4:00pm at 4:00 pm (UTC -4)
Effin Ed Wade and his secret arrangement with Philly since leaving there…
GravediggerHebner
7/29/2010-4:02pm at 4:02 pm (UTC -4)
According to Tim Brown of Yahoo sports Gose was a player involved in talks between Toronto & Philly in the Halladay trade and Houston & Toronto are already in talks on a trade involving him.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-4:08pm at 4:08 pm (UTC -4)
Do they mention who from Philly would come Houston way? Work puts the big block on all things Yahoo for me.
GravediggerHebner
7/29/2010-4:13pm at 4:13 pm (UTC -4)
No names yet. Just tweets from TBrownYahoo
1st one was basically: don’t be surprised if this happens
2nd one was basically: well what do you know discussions ongoing
If he mentions any names before I log off in the next 45 minutes I’ll post a comment in this thread.
GravediggerHebner
7/29/2010-4:55pm at 4:55 pm (UTC -4)
Brett Wallace.
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-4:13pm at 4:13 pm (UTC -4)
Looking at it for this season only
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
If which is big right now Santana and Pelfrey could keep pace with Halladay and Hamels the Mets can keep up with Phiilies don’t you think?
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-4:42pm at 4:42 pm (UTC -4)
Well, it’s not the pitching lately that’s in question…it’s the offense.
I like what I’ve seen this Cards series. Beltran getting his timing back, Reyes looking O.K. and healed, Ike sprinkling in some well timed dingers, Thole gets on base, Wright status quo and the Mets MVP this season, Pagan just keeps on raking.
Now if Bay could somehow manage to come back healthy with his bat, get Franceour out of the lineup, bat Castillo 9th…maybe the offense would start picking it up some.
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-4:53pm at 4:53 pm (UTC -4)
I did not add today’s game but of course now Dickey is
7/W,
4/L,
2.32/ERA
93.0/IP
84/H
28/R
24/ER
5/HR
24/BB
62/SO
1.16/WHIP
6.00/SO/9
2.58/SO/BB
youngvalerawest
7/29/2010-6:04pm at 6:04 pm (UTC -4)
Dickey’s been big. No doubt about that.
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-5:03pm at 5:03 pm (UTC -4)
Texas is going for it this season. traded for Marlins Jorge Cantu.
#Marlins’ return for Cantu will be Double A RHP Evan Reed & Double A RHP Omar Poveda, who is on DL recovering from TJ surgery. #Rangers #MLB
41 minutes ago via web
Ken_Rosenthal
Ken Rosenthal
http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19852408742
stickguy
7/29/2010-5:11pm at 5:11 pm (UTC -4)
you mean they got the marlins to eat salary? Florida? The cheapest team in the league?
Those must be some good prospects.
and Texas could be a scary team in the playoffs. If of course they make it!
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-5:05pm at 5:05 pm (UTC -4)
BLUE JAYS have acquired OF ANTHONY GOSE from the Houston Astros in exchange for 1B BRETT WALLACE. 3 minutes ago via web
BlueJays
Blue Jays-Official
http://twitter.com/BlueJays/statuses/19854766076
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-5:10pm at 5:10 pm (UTC -4)
Houston did good I guess they traded Gose for Wallace who is now ranked in the top 50 in B.A. 2010 top midseason prospects.
stickguy
7/29/2010-5:17pm at 5:17 pm (UTC -4)
if nothing else, it gave them anothe rpiece that could be in the majors right now, as opposed to a 19 YO for some years down the road (maybe).
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-5:19pm at 5:19 pm (UTC -4)
Just heard Jays GM do radio show where they were high on Wallace also he was their Ike Davis of the future. Let me add he did not say that I am.
He was projected as the 1st baseman of the future.
youngvalerawest
7/29/2010-5:40pm at 5:40 pm (UTC -4)
Questions about whether Wallace will have major league power at 1B. Afterall, Toronto has him behind Lyle Overbay and traded him away…
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-5:42pm at 5:42 pm (UTC -4)
ahh thx for that bit of info.
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-5:10pm at 5:10 pm (UTC -4)
Trades trades trades.. Its Insane!!!
GravediggerHebner
7/29/2010-5:12pm at 5:12 pm (UTC -4)
I think Mets fans are fairly justified in freaking out that the Texas Rangers who are in some form of bankruptcy and in pre-sale limbo yet have made 3 acquisitions (Lee, Molina, Cantu).
The only thing that makes me hesitate to go total freak out about it is that the Rangers are (at least) in 1st place bolstering their position whereas the Mets are I don’t even know where anymore. 3rd? 4th? in the east, 6th? 7th? in wildcard?
But it is a point of frustration.
stickguy
7/29/2010-5:16pm at 5:16 pm (UTC -4)
To be fair, the rangers also gave up some pretty good prospects. Something that they supposedly had an abundence of!
so, maybe this is the met plan, to build up the supply to be able to make deals like this?
Either that, or someone needs to wake Omar up from his nap, and let him now the trades are happening now.
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-5:48pm at 5:48 pm (UTC -4)
Got it confirmed, Tejada to the #Padres is a done deal. Pending league approval. Baltimore Sun had it first. Waiting to hear compensation.
11 minutes ago via web
FollowThePadres
Follow The Padres
http://twitter.com/FollowThePadres/status/19856761281
youngvalerawest
7/29/2010-6:00pm at 6:00 pm (UTC -4)
Not sure what kind of help he’ll provide to their offense at this point. .269 .308 .362 is indeed offensive, moreso when you consider the different between hitting at Camden and at Petco.
His last couple of seasons were just about what I would consider league average or slightly worse. So I suppose he could get hot.
Can’t imagine a better hitter wasn’t available to them — even Ty Wigginton.
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-6:31pm at 6:31 pm (UTC -4)
#mets asked or gorzellany. #cubs dont want to trade him. #mets dont want to trade thole for lilly, either.
3 minutes ago via web
SI_JonHeyman
Jon Heyman
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/statuses/19859636326
Generated 7/29/2010.
trs86
7/29/2010-9:42pm at 9:42 pm (UTC -4)
I like this deal for the Phillies. Why? Because they are clearly a win RIGHT NOW team that actually has a closing window. No doubt it’s nice to be in that situation sometimes, but the Mets are not in that situation. The Phillies are mostly an over 30 year old team with a lot of high priced players. When you look at what Happ provided for the Phillies last year (2.93 ERA 1.25 whip) with a contract 15M less it is a classic win now move. Obviously Happ is a little older than most prospects traded. However, he fits immediately in Houston’s rotation and even if the arm is an issue he is under control. It would not be fair to say the Astros got damaged goods when you look at Oswalt’s medical history as well.
As for jumping on Omar for not doing this deal, who do we have that compares to a young under control pitcher than posted an ERA under 3? Niese. We can debate all we want that Niese has more trade value than Happ. As true as that may be, who did we have? Don’t give me something like Gee. Seriously? Mejia? The Mets don’t even know if he is a front line starter. The Astros obviously wanted a pitcher that was ready, just like the Dbacks did with Haren.
Overall I think this move is a win win for both teams involved. I think longterm the Astros will profit more from a player perspective BUT this trade is perfect for the Phillies who in my opinion have to go for broke with their current roster.
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-10:26pm at 10:26 pm (UTC -4)
good trade for both. @RT ScottMCBSSports #Twins agree to acquire closer Matt Capps from #Nats for catcher Wilson Ramos:
6 minutes ago via web
SI_JonHeyman
Jon Heyman
http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/statuses/19874786118
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-10:30pm at 10:30 pm (UTC -4)
Nats are building a very interesting team.
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-10:32pm at 10:32 pm (UTC -4)
Of course with that comes the little jokes at Mets expense.
The Nationals receive C Wilson Ramos & send RP Matt Capps to the Twins. In other news, the Nats will win a World Series before the Mets do.
1 minute ago via txt
EliFromBrooklyn
Eli
http://twitter.com/EliFromBrooklyn/statuses/19875481096
DNDJohan aka kistics
7/29/2010-10:42pm at 10:42 pm (UTC -4)
They do have handful of very nice prospects coming up. They should have a contending team in 3-4 years.
phillies09
7/29/2010-10:54pm at 10:54 pm (UTC -4)
hey guys, whats going on. very interesting to read all of your perspectives on the trade. In terms of the mets not showing much interest in oswalt, do you think payroll could’ve been a problem? Even with the 11 million it doesn’t seem like they have the space to give that money to another fornt line starter, especially with some of the question marks for the holes in the field.
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-11:02pm at 11:02 pm (UTC -4)
it is hard to say.
It can be from the money to what it would take in prospects but it will probably be a little bit of both.
trs86
7/30/2010-12:14am at 12:14 am (UTC -4)
No I don’t think it’s payroll at all. In fact in terms of payroll I think we are in better shape than the Phills. I think it was everything to do with building a young nucleus and Niese in the Mets opinion is part of that core. Our problem is we did not have a Happ to trade. Happ has been useless to the Phillies this season while Niese has been invaluable.