Last night was a night that I will never forget ! I along with some of my Mets blogger brethren (Ceetar, Kerel from On The Black, Greg and Jason from F&FIF, Shannon from Mets Police etc) were invited by the Mets to attend early on field batting practice , with the opportunity of possibly interviewing some Mets players, along with a complimentary ticket to see the game. Well the moment that I walked onto the red clay of Citi Field I was awestruck ! Sitting on the grass in front of us doing their limbering exercises were David Wright, Jose Reyes and Angel Pagan. Carlos Beltran was in the outfield shagging fly balls, while the coaches threw batting practice and other kinds of hitting and fielding drills.I witnessed everything from Eddie Coleman interviewing Jerry Manuel for the WFAN pre-game managers report ( had to hold my tongue), to columnists such as Dave Lennon from Newsday hanging around the dugout trying to get information for his daily column. Hell the thing that really blew my mind was when Fred Wilpon strolled leisurely in front of us watching his 130 million dollar team , and just looking real happy. Jay Horowitz was running around like a man possessed and I was surprised to see Ed Kranepool on the field watching batting practice and yucking it up with the players and coaches. I even got to hang in the dugout !! In the end most of us ( I myself included) weren’t able to get any interviews with any of the players, but this ranks right up there as one of the best moments of my life !!
Johan Santana first inning definitely wasn’t sharp, but if it weren’t for David Wright double clutching his throw to first , the score might have been 3-0 instead of 6-0. Carlos Beltran’s first home-run of the season was a laser, and it was great to see him returning to form as a hitter. Mike Hessman surprised us all with his two run double in the first. But I’ll tell you, I left the game in the top of the eighth because I have to get up at 4:15 this morning, but I heard the Mets comeback and said to myself, even if they lose this game at least they went down fighting. And go down figting they did, it took 13 innings before the Cards finally defeated the Mets, it was a heartbreaking loss but in many ways it was a moral victory. Unfortunately at the time of me writing this, according to MLBTR, The Phillies and the Astros have agreed in principle on a trade that would send J.A Happ among others to Houston for Ace pitcher Roy Oswalt ! My friends it has just gotten harder for the Mets to win the division – and all I can say is – UGH !!!
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                                                                 ” Keep your hands off his power supply !!”
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And with that said … HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!
Happy Birthday wishes go out to the first shortstop in Mets history,Felix Mantilla (1934)
 Also celebrating a birthday is the sacrificial lamb – err I mean first base coach from last season,Luis Alicea. He is 45 today (1965).
New York Mets traded minor league outfielder,Jacke Davis to the St. Louis Cardinals for outfielder, Duke Carmel on July 29, 1963.
New York Mets traded the passionless second baseman, Jeff Kent and infielder/ outfielder, José Vizcaino to the Cleveland Indians for faded second baseman,Carlos Baerga and Alvaro Espinoza on July 29, 1996.
New York Mets traded Rey” The Barber “ Sanchez to the Seattle Mariners for minor league outfielder, Kenny Kelly on July 29, 2003.
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STOP THE PRESSES !! It has been reported that Mo Vaughn is so depressed about the pending Roy Oswalt to the Philles deal that he has declared that he has lost his appetite !!
87 comments
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-7:40am at 7:40 am (UTC -4)
Sounds like a very fine time you had at Citi last night. Too bad they couldn’t have capped it off with a win. Was a little surprised when I first started reading you didn’t have more of a rant on the loss, but I see you left in the 8th so understandable.
Last night’s game epitomizes what we’ve been watching with this team since 2006: Lots of cliches comes to mind: Always late to the party, always a bridesmaid but never a bride, but essentially ALWAYS a day late and a dollar short.
I don’t agree with some of my fellow Met fans that this is all on one player who never comes through in the clutch. These past few years are on ownership and management. It’s an overall mindset on how the team is run. Take a look at the Phils. They got Lee, they got Halladay, they’re getting Oswalt. And wow…don’t know what they’re giving up for Oswalt but obviously, it’s more than the Mets wanted to give up. The Phils – as much as I hate them and you all know I do…made a mistake by trading Lee but went right out and tried to rectify it a half year later. The Phils lately seem to be running their franchise more like the Yankees, it remains to be seen how it will cost them in the years going forward – but dang…..at least they do SOMETHING.
The Mets….on the other hand, seem to always have a mindset of either ‘wait and see’, or ‘we have enough’…Well, I for one, am getting a little sick of the conservative attitude.
The only way we’re ever going to be better than a second place type team is if the players ownership does get and/or keep can rise above some even poorer decisions constantly being made by management.
rustyjr
7/29/2010-7:45am at 7:45 am (UTC -4)
You are so right – the funny thing is that even being down 6-2 I didn’t feel the team was out of it btw Ron darling is a giant as is ike Davis lol
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-7:50am at 7:50 am (UTC -4)
Just fell short….playing with a viable 23/24 man team right now isn’t helping. Maybe, just maybe, if Ollie wasn’t taking up space in that BP, Jerry could have shuffled that BP better and Pedro isn’t left out there struggling to give up the winning run.
Didn’t help that we had plenty of opportunities to push that 8th run across both before extra innings and in extra innings and just couldn’t seem to get the job done. But I was very happy to see them not lay down and die after the 6 run first inning.
Bay should be on the DL and Ollie should be released.
rustyjr
7/29/2010-7:59am at 7:59 am (UTC -4)
Let’s just face the facts – it will be hard for the mets to find a taker for Ollie without the mets picking up s significant portion of his contract – and the mets won’t release him and eat the 16 mill still owed to him
stickguy
7/29/2010-8:09am at 8:09 am (UTC -4)
I expect he will be traded. more likely for another comparable bad contract though. Or maybe they eat the money (though a bad contract swap is effectively the same thing).
And don’t bet on him not getting released. They have cut deadwood before. Maybe not owed quite this much money, but honestly, I think this is the first time they have really been in this situation.
and every team keeps a guy like this around (trying to finally get value) longer than the fans want them too. Phils (eaton), yankees, Red Sox. All of them.
rustyjr
7/29/2010-8:12am at 8:12 am (UTC -4)
Yeah they will cut him next Septembe. When they owe him 2 mil lol
stickguy
7/29/2010-8:32am at 8:32 am (UTC -4)
I would be absolutely shocked to see him on the roster next april. He may make this year in some capacity, but has to go in the off season. Right? Please?
Him and slappy.
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-7:47am at 7:47 am (UTC -4)
And don’t misunderstand…I’m not saying the Mets should give up the farm for Owswalt plus take on that salary – it’s the conservative mindset in general I’m starting to get tired of.
And maybe…just maybe….if we had a wealth of prospects in our farm systems like some of other teams always seem to have, management would be more willing to pull the trigger on trading some for needed pieces. Right now, outside of Mejia, we’ve got zilch in pitching prospects down there that is attractive to other teams. The Mets have GOT to get on the stick with scouting, drafting, signings, etc.
rustyjr
7/29/2010-7:56am at 7:56 am (UTC -4)
Look I wanted oswalt as much as anyone but not for Ike or niese that said I hope that this isn’t game over try to finish second or third – but at this moment I done see either a impact trade being made
stickguy
7/29/2010-8:05am at 8:05 am (UTC -4)
your last point is key. The mets actually do have a wealth of position prospects at the moment (plenty of OFs and 2Bs to go around. and a few DHs.)
but, they are woefully short on pitching. Although for a top line pitcher (signed for 2011 too) I would move mejia.
But, the astros wanted a ML ready pitcher. Why they want one that is (or is about to be) 28 YO, spent most of the year fighting an arm injury, and was a bit of smoke and mirrors last year, is another story.
but effectively Happ wold be like trading Neise. Probably an upgrade, but largely a lateral move (certainly lateral for the mets the way Neise is pitching).
What will be interesting is hearing what the actual package is. Unless, of course, Oswalt screw up the deal! He better at elast insist on the option getting picked up, since the older and more decrepit the phils get, the happier I will be!
I did cal it that the Phils will be in 1st my sometime in August. And that stands, with or without Oswalt.
DOn’t know why the Mets are doing nothing. Not even in on Lilly? must be the old” not better than what we have” plan.
rustyjr
7/29/2010-8:10am at 8:10 am (UTC -4)
Mets don’t want to give up top prospects and pay the remainder of lillys contract
stickguy
7/29/2010-8:31am at 8:31 am (UTC -4)
The top prospects piece I agree with.
The money is more concerning. If it means they actaully are so broke and over extended that they really don’t have it available!
IMO, more likely that they have decided they are not really in the race for this year (fringy at best), but of course, will never admit that publically.
well, that and the fact that based on his last start, they may not feel that lilly is that much of an upgrade over taka to make the cost worth it
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-8:42am at 8:42 am (UTC -4)
On that last statement, could very well be, and one I don’t necessarily disagree with.
It’s the overall conservative ‘wait and see’ approach over the past few years that is getting old. They wait too long, they wait until it’s too late, then of course it’s then not prudent to trade prospects and or spend the money when we’re out of the race.
Here’s a thought…..how about taking a chance or two BEFORE we’re out of the race?
stickguy
7/29/2010-8:59am at 8:59 am (UTC -4)
I am with you that being so conservative and cautious might have gone too far. They must really have been hurt by the people that called them out for having a weak farm system!
Maybe it is just wishful thinking, but after this year (assuming no miracle finish to make the playoffs, or once again miss them on day 162), the changes will be coming.
IMO, 2010 is a mulligan for 2009. And before last season, I was on board with the proedictin that is was this regimes last stand. After 2007 and 2008, they had just about blown all the capital built up in 2006. But, they put faith in Omar for 1 last try (and unfortunately kept Jerry around).
If 2009 had just been another fall short disappointment, there would have been a housecleaning. The injuries, however, kind of prevented (only kind of) a real analysis of how Omar and the gang did. So, they got 2010.
No injury slaughter card this year to play. So really, even a disfunctional bunch like the Mets owners will finally have to concede defeat, and clean the place out.
And for all our sakes, maybe someone (fred if not jeff) will have the common sense to decide that the owners need to stick with the non-field related side of the business, and get a real BB guru to serve as Sr. VP (running the operations side, and bringing in a good GM).
Put together a management team, and let them have free rein to remake the organization top to bottom. And if that happens, it will also be time to bite the bullet and clean out the rest of the dead wood players!
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
From your lips to all Met fans ears….
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
I really hope so, but I can’t see Jeffy not thinking he isn’t that baseball Guru. *cringes*
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-8:51am at 8:51 am (UTC -4)
Having read the baseball prospectus interview over at amazing avenue, they are still really down on the Mets Farm system. I’m starting to think that our saying we’d never ship out Fmart + Mejia + Tejada, etc. etc. for an Oswalt or a Haren would never be able to happen cause those teams don’t value what the Mets have. I mean, the Phils are reported to be sending JA Happ + some guys for Oswalt. Granted he’s having a down year, but JA has some value. I’d put niese as more important that JA is, but you get my point. The only way we’d get some of these big boys is if Niese or Ike was in some package, and I’m content to keep those 2 than picking up what was out there. Even Haren… I’d prefer to keep Niese.
stickguy
7/29/2010-9:04am at 9:04 am (UTC -4)
suprising to see the phils trade happ, in that a young, controllable SP (especially a lefty) that has been successful in the MLs already is a highly valuable commodity.
My take though is the phils figure they are unloading damaged goods. Happ is also about to be 28, so IOW, the same age as Ollie! It just took him forever to get out of the minors.
Combine that with spending most of the year battling an arm injury (this guy is screaming of being a TJ waiting to happen), and they might be willing totrade him before he blows up.
He was also relatively “lucky” last year based on peripherals.
Neise, at 23 and doing what he is doing THIS YEAR (not last year like Hpapp) should be worth more. he is already pitching like a #3, and converting him into Oswalt would be a lateral move for the most part, and still leave the 1 weak link in the rotation.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
Oh, I agree. Niese to me is about as untouchable as Strasburg. Yes, I know that is a crazy comparison, but put it in these terms. Young, Cheap, Under Control and a top tiered pitcher in your rotation. Niese, at this point, is more valuable to the Mets than Pelfry.
(now, to temper people’s responses about no way is he like strasburg, yes i know that. I’m saying you don’t trade niese. Just like you would never consider trading Strasburg)
GravediggerHebner
7/29/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Perhaps the most depressing thing about that article you mention was the concept that the Mets have no positional depth in the minors, and by that what I think he meant, at least what I took it as, is to say the Mets don’t have more than 1 “good” (for lack of an appropriate scouting term) prospect at the same position.
IOW they don’t have say 2 vaunted 3B (or insert any position you like) so they could trade 1 and still have 1. And the positional prospects they do have that are the more respected ones are mostly OF and so less coveted by other teams than say C or SS.
Just to avert 1 discussion they made that statement noting that Flores was unlikely to stay at SS.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, that was pretty deflating.
2B – Havens
SS – Tejada
SP – Mejia, New top draft pick
3B – ?
C – Thole (who really is now MLB)
CF – Newienauseosidngoag
RF/LF – Flores / Fmart (his review on Fmart was pretty shocking in my mind)
I know I’m missing many but overall, I can’t think of a guy to put as a 2nd option after those.
stickguy
7/29/2010-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
maybe duda and ratliff for the OF. Satin for 2B?
the other interestin gguys I can think of off the top of my head are down in low A ball. Some intriquing players there.
stickguy
7/29/2010-9:06am at 9:06 am (UTC -4)
saw this comment posted over at AA by Gina (a regular). I suspect there are a few people over here that would support the plan (and look to pick up tickets!). But I won’t name you…
***************************
also rather than trading for another crappy overpaid pitcher the mets should just take the money they’d spend on the pitcher, and start a new promotional event where everyone who shows up to a mets game gets a dime bag to smoke before they enter the stadium. Fans would be happier and concession revenues would sky rocket.
I want Jerry Manuel fired now, not three years from now. That is my stance.- John Peterson
by Gina
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
Now that would be a promotion! That thing would be sold out in about 15 minutes. Now, do you propose swag for the upper deck, regs for the mezzanine and kind buds for the field level with crazy government issue stuff for the seats right behing home plate? Then it would look like the place is packed as the people behind home plate wouldn’t be able to move, just stuck in their seats going “whoaaa” after each pitch.
stickguy
7/29/2010-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
my friend, you know way too much of the lingo. I will not ask why.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
Another life in a galaxy far far away.
Dang, that’s 2 Star Wars drops today. Have to come up with a doozie for the 3rd and final one, cause the new 3 movies didn’t happen. I refuse to accept they were created.
fongy2
7/29/2010-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
Rusty, sounds like you had a great night!…You should have given the club a pep-talk Pal!…I think they’ve already tuned-out Old Freddy.
I still held out hope after the game
was over BUT about an hr later heard
about how close Oswalt to the Phils
was…..If so, we are done!…
Phils are already better and despite
this teams trying,and I do believe
they’ve tried, tougher than us.
Give credit where due, the Phils wanna
win in all…Ya know, play meaningful
games in October….Not just September.
stickguy
7/29/2010-9:14am at 9:14 am (UTC -4)
My quick rant for the morning:
I have had enough of slappy. THe man is giving off an overwhelming aroma of being done. FInito. As good as he will be.
and that is a weak fielder with a snappy .622OPS (and a putrid .338 OBP, putrid since it is his 1 supposed skill at this point).
I don’t want him on the field at all, and he sure the hell has to get out of the 2 hole. Totally clogs up and stalls the offense up there. At this point, it is like Reyes is hitting 8th, and you hope that he just clears the pitcher i nthe 2 ole!
Frenchy needs to go back to the bench too. the .297/.381/.678 line is just not good enough (and to be clear, that is OBP/slugging/OPS!)
and please, put bay on the DL, and call up someone that can actually play. having a position guy shut down, along with a RP you refuse to use, is no way to manage a team. Just be overly cautious with Bay and let him have the 2 full weeks, even if it is overkill. It’s not like you are missing anything.
just call up a lefty OF to play LF, getting frenchy back on the bench (at least against RH pitching). I would love to see Duda, just for the heck of it, unless they want to give carter some time (not likely).
I still dislike Jerry running the team too, but will keeep that for another time!
fongy2
7/29/2010-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
Welcome to the club….On all
points Stick.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, especially on bay. Last night they were left with Bay and Cora on the bench, so really, all they had was Cora. Wasted bench spots don’t affect too many games, but they do affect some.
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
Yes, yes and yes.
Problem is who replaces Castillo? Cora should not be an everyday player. Tejada might have more range but his hitting is worse. But Castillo has to go at the end of the year. As does Franceour and Ollie.
Most teams carry one player not getting it done, for a variety of reasons, but usually money/contract considerations. But those 3 right there are at least 2 too much to have on the 25 man at the same time.
fongy2
7/29/2010-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Keep in mind dear that Tejada is so young hes
got lots of time to
con’t to improve.
All I know is that this
team just played better
with a combo of Cora/Tejada @2B.
I’m bias no doubt as
Castillo has now slipped into my top five all time most hated Mets.
Whatever the Karma is,
I don’t know BUT this
run of bad-luck the past few yrs seem to start the second Castillo walked in the
door.
stickguy
7/29/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
Tejada I don’t think is really the answer for this year. Unless they wave the white flag, and just decide to let him play and learn on the job?
but is it really that hard to find a cheap stop gap that can do a little more than slappy?
And now that Havens got shut down for the year, I am worried that Slappy will be the only option for 2011 too! I don’t see Satin (or the other guy down there, name I forget) being ready either.
I don’t think I would take seeing Slappy waddling and limping out to 2B on opening day next year.
dirtysanchez
7/29/2010-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
I seriously dont know why the mets are so against putting people on the DL this year…makes no sense and they only shoot themselves in the foot. When wright got his concussion, they didnt hesitate to put him on the DL…I guess Bay is the new Ryan Church
fongy2
7/29/2010-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
Simple Dirty, our FO
doesn’t know what’s doing. I’m hoping Omar
does nothing and that
he and Jerry are gone
come October. Bring in a new GM who’ll bring in a respected Mgr,
rid us one way or another of guys like
Ollie and Cstillo…..
And move on from there.
dirtysanchez
7/29/2010-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
Cant agree more. Im pretty much done with this front office. Their inaction to me is equivalent to giving the middle finger to us. I hope alot of changes are made going into next year, just dont know why a business man doesnt realize when something is NOT good for business.
fongy2
7/29/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
Tru dat
man!…
Then again,personal
alliances lead
Freddy to Madoff and kept him there.
So…..
stickguy
7/29/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
they apparently think it is better to play a man short for 1 week, then to replace a guy for 2.
Not like Bay is adding any particular value.
In this case, it may have made sense, since he had no symptoms fro 2 days after the fact (almost sounds like the pressure in the plane is waht gave him the supposedly mild headaches). So maybe a couple days monitoring was the appropriate protacol in this case? Hoping they could just hide him for 2 games?
But if as of today he is still having symptoms, then yeah, get him on the DL and play it safe.
ceetar
7/29/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
http://picasaweb.google.com/ceetar/Cardinals728#
those are my pictures from yesterday. I haven’t even looked at them myself yet.
dirtysanchez
7/29/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
wow great pictures ceet…well done
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Nice!. Thanks for sharing.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Nice pictures indeed. Both a McReynolds and a Heilman Jersey sighting? No wonder we collapsed.
fongy2
7/29/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Funny!
I thought the same thing!
ceetar
7/29/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
los Mets Heilman jersey. 2008 version (the version of Heilman that actually did suck)
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
If you don’t mind me asking….do you know what section of seats that is in photo #17? Or more to the point, what sections have those cushioned seats?
My only shot at getting to Citi field might be to spring for the money to buy the seats that aren’t just the hard metal type….
ceetar
7/29/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Of course I don’t mind.
that’s the Sterling section. (where Darryl Strawberry was sitting) I think a lot of the inner-field level seats have cushions.
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Thanks Ceet and Rusty. Appreciate the info.
rustyjr
7/29/2010-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Only behind home plate
Mr North Jersey
7/29/2010-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
OK so where’s rusty?
GravediggerHebner
7/29/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
Nice to see the crew looking so professional.
rustyjr
7/29/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
Shut up ! I thought I was dressing buisness casual lol
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
Rusty, is that you in the white pants?
rustyjr
7/29/2010-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
No – I’m the fat retarded looking one wearing the El duque jersey
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
The guy with his back to kevin james and jaimee fox with a beer gut?
rustyjr
7/29/2010-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
Yup – be afraid
ceetar
7/29/2010-1:39pm at 1:39 pm (UTC -4)
heh. i’m not in that one.
fongy2
7/29/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
Is it just me or does anyone else
think the package, as its been reported for Oswalt is cheap??
I mean JA Happ and Vance Worley??
Both likely to project as back of the rotation guys. And going on 28&24 years old?…Unless either or both of the A-Ball prospects to be named are big-time, blue chip types, THAT is all
you get for a no-doubt Ace and one of the better pitchers in the game?….
locked-up through next year when he’ll
play the entire season @ 33 y/o.
Would seem to me thaT a Meijia,Stinson
and Tejada package gets us Oswalt…..
…IF….We really wanted him in the
first place.
fongy2
7/29/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
And now its being reported the ‘Stros will p.u. “a significant portion” of Oswalt’s salary…….
I just don’t get it…
dirtysanchez
7/29/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
i think we are all on the same boat here. This whole thing just didnt make sense the way it was presented and reported. I thought stros were not interested in paying anything of oswalts contract and all of a sudden they are paying a significant portion? I gotta think Philly has a “tough guy” to “make” deals go their way ;p
dirtysanchez
7/29/2010-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
if we have seen anything from this trade deadline, the rumored packages are no where near what it took to get the job done.
fongy2
7/29/2010-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Yeah BUT my point is
Happ,Worley, two back
of the rotation guys..
AND HOUSTON pays salary???
dirtysanchez
7/29/2010-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
lol look at my comment above
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
So far, none of the trades that have gone down were as expensive in prospects as first reported they were going to be.
That being said, outside of Mejia (and Niese shouldn’t even be in this discussion) we didn’t have that ML or almost ML ready pitcher the Stros were apparently looking for. Could we have parted with Mejia? Sure….but would it be worth it? IDK. Right now Mejia seems to be the only decent pitching prospect we have.
dirtysanchez
7/29/2010-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
if ever there was a reason for the Mets to take drafting more seriously…it has been this season..
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
In the past year the Phillies FO has depleted the farm system to get Lee, traded Lee to get back some prospects, traded more prospects to get Halladay and appear to be trading more to get Oswalt. They rolled the dice coming into the season with Happ, Moyer and Blanton and it didn’t work out. Credit them for trying to do something to fix it. Time will tell if it’s a dumb move or not.
It’s not like the Phils had an abundance of good prospects either.
I still say it’s not that the Mets are cheap it’s that they’re too conservative – all the way around. Build up a better farm system, pay for good signings, make smart moves for some draft picks and they too can be in a better position to be trading.
The Mets FO/ownership want their cake and want to eat it too. Sometimes to succeed, you have to take a chance. Not a dumb move but some well thought out, calculated risks – the type we’ve rarely seen these past several years…
fongy2
7/29/2010-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
It also has seemed to me that for 20years
now, Freddy gets
burned w/ a FA
and/or big name
trade and then
backs off for a
couple yrs trying to develop the kids. PLUS, we
know how for years now The Mets overate their own prospects….
And not just to others/outsiders
BUT in their own
minds.
Look, this team desperately needs a John Hart/Buck Showalter type
combo to run things, upstairs
and downstairs.
fongy2
7/29/2010-10:43am at 10:43 am (UTC -4)
So….The Phils 1,2,3 will be
Halladay,Oswalt & Hamels.33,32&26 y/o.
With a combined career W-L record of
367-210….Not bad…..
stickguy
7/29/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
getting to be a lot of miles on that team. a couple of poorly timed injuries (as often happens to older guys, especially pitchers) and they could implode real quick.
They certainly are locking up the team though for an “all in” run over the enxt couple of years.
fongy2
7/29/2010-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Which I think is the point!…Not to mention
3 straight playoff runs, 2 straight World
Series appearances AND
a Championship!…
Another couple runs and
even one more championship make WHATEVER cost the pay
down the road acceptable…..No?????
stickguy
7/29/2010-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
in there mind it does.
and I think that each situation is different. They ended up with such a top heavy but older team that doubling down on it made sense, since I don’t think there was anyway they were going to be successful with it for a long extended time, without giving up the success now.
they were also good enough to make the deep playoff runs, so why not see if you could get some more before imploding?
fongy2
7/29/2010-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
Thats the whole point my friend.
Should they go
on to
another couple of playoffs
and even
1 title,
then have a run of 3or4 yrs
of 90to100
loses,
isn’t worth it?
Wouldn’t you love a
5yr run
of 5 playoff
yrs,3 WS
&2 titles?
When have we ever done anything
like that???
Wouldn’tit make
a few seasons
like the ones we suffered
through in the late 70s much more tolerable???
stickguy
7/29/2010-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
85-90 is comparable. Especially since there was no WC in those days. If there was, themets would have been i nthe playoffs pretty much every year.
stickguy
7/29/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
saw another mention of the theoretical trade with the cubs (your problem for our problem) of Big Z for Ollie and Castillo.
hell, if that was actually on the table, I would do it in a second. Of course the hangup will be money (as in Zambrano’s 2012 contract), but get the Cubs to pick up half (9 mill), and go for it.
Freddy and the boys probably don’t have the stones to do it. And of course, who knows if the cubs (or Z) would sign off on it.
But it would give an instant transformation (jolt of energy, and message to the fans), with pretty much no risk, and a lot of upside.
fongy2
7/29/2010-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
agreed.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
+ an extra spot on the roster for someone useful!
stickguy
7/29/2010-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
anyway, at this point, I am not expecting much, so I will be surprised if anything big happens.
I am actually fine though now with standing pat (I don’t think the odds of a run this year are worth a major hit to the farm). But, with this caveat: They save the money to invest next year, and there is a major, major houscleaning in the off season. Dead wood players of course (all of them), but mostly, the FO (including marginalizing Jeffy) and entire coaching staff.
Unless a strong organizational and baseball mind is brought in to take over real leadership, the mess won’t noticably be cleaned up in the off seaosn. The current “regime” of Jeffy pulling Omar’s puppet strings isn’t working, and will not be the right plan to revitalize the team in the off season.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Hopefully management and Ollie/Castillo/Frenchy get shown the door.
I think there is some tweaking to do for next year and MAJOR changes will abound for 2012 (to look way into the future).
stickguy
7/29/2010-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
at minimum, the guys you listed (and I want to include Omar, at leaast reassigning him) need to go. Any others will be the normal shuffling of spare parts.
Who knows if a new regime wants to (or could) move more major parts. But lets assume that the core will stay.
2012 though will be a new frontier, since guaranteed Ollie and slappy are gone, as will be Beltran, and quite possibly Reyes.
now that would be a really different look!
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
I was on the fence about Omar until just recently. Not having all the inside info though I’m not sure exactly where the problem lies. Does Omar want to do more than the Wilpons will allow? Is it Omar himself is too conservative, which the Wilpons like and that’s why they’re ‘fiercely’ loyal to Omar – as recent reports have indicated?
I don’t have the answers to be sure, but I’m not getting paid to have those answers either. I still say we had enough talent with a couple of tweaks to get it done. They just didn’t do it, for whatever reason.
Time for a change….
stickguy
7/29/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
A big indication will be what happens in the off season. Does Omar get canned, reassigned, or left in place to institute the latest plan of attack?
I am thinking that the “fiercely loyal” part is more along th elines of “Omar is a willing puppet” that will let Jeffy play GM.
so no, I have no clue what would happen if Omar had 100% autonomy (within his budget of course) to make whatever moves he wanted. But I will guess that he would do something more than this.
unless he really is scarred from the constant mentions of the COlon deal, and doesn’t want another on his resume, so he would rather do nothing?
stickguy
7/29/2010-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
interesting note over on MLBTR about the oswalt deal (besides the depressing parts that the pieces going back are not all that good, and the Stors will pick up a lot of the salary).
I liked this tidbit: Astros owner Drayton McLane has been negotiating directly with Phillies president David Montgomery, reports CBS’ Danny Knobler.
Imagine the uproar if it were a met deal, and we found out that the other team was negotiating directly with Jeffy boy?
Anway, the Philles better be tossing in one of their “jewels” from low A (singleton I think is the big bat), or this deal will be a bunch of crap going back. A damaged 28 YO lefty, Dylan Gee type, and an unknown 3rd piece.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
That’s why the Astors suck. Cause their owner gets involved in this crap.
stickguy
7/29/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
when Ed Wade is your GM, you might be better off letting the guy that guards the gate to the players parking lot negotiate your trades.
metsfan4decades
7/29/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
12:10 game. Back for more pain?
Uh….LGM.
Dickey on 3 days rest – I missed that one.
njstuckintx
7/29/2010-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
I see Hessman is the flavor of the month? Well, I guess he is the only 3B back up…
ceetar
7/29/2010-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
Better than the Card’s first base backup..
http://picasaweb.google.com/ceetar/Cardinals728#5499301458682645714
youngvalerawest
7/29/2010-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
The other night, Frenchy saw fewer pitches (9) in four at bats than Jon Niese did in 3 (14).
Granted he hit a big homer in the game but he also popped up to 2B with a runner on 3B on a pitch at his ankles.