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Jul 30

Post Game: Snakes Swallow Mets

"Yo, where's that Shake Shack at?"

"Yo, where's that Shake Shack at?"

The top of the 6th inning began with the New York Mets holding a 5-4 lead over the Arizona Diamondbacks and starter Mike Pelfrey pushing the 100 pitch mark.  Pelfrey got the 1st Arizona batter he faced, Gerardo Parra, to line out to left field.  The next batter, Diamondbacks pitcher Ian Kennedy (6-8), hit a ground ball toward shortstop that Jose Reyes booted for his 9th error of the season.  Chris Young then flied out to center on what would be Pelfrey’s 118th and final pitch.  With left handed hitter Kelly Johnson coming up with 2 outs and Kennedy as the tying run on 2nd base Mets manager Jerry Manuel summoned left handed relief pitcher Raul Valdes (2-3) from the bullpen.  Unfortunately Valdes has an OPS-against of .852 versus left handed hitters and Johnson made that worse by hitting a long 2-run homer to give Arizona the lead.  After right handed hitter Justin Upton singled off Valdes left handed hitter Adam LaRoche made Valdes’ OPS-against left handed hitters even worse with a single of his own.  Miguel Montero struck the final blow to Valdes’ OPS-against left handed hitters with a monstrous home run off the facade of the Pepsi Porch which gave Arizona a 9-5 lead and knocked Valdes from the game.  The Mets added a run in the 7th on an Angel Pagan RBI single but that would be all the scoring for this game.  The last insult was ex-Met Aaron Heilman coming on to record the save, his 4th, which equals his total of blown saves on the season.  Final score Arizona 9, New York 6.

box score

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63 comments

  1. Mr North Jersey

    OK so is this the nail in the coffin? Going into today the Mets needed to go 38-22 the rest of the way to win 90 games. That’s 16 games above .500.

    That would require one heck of a winning streak at some point. The Mets though can’t win 2 in a row at Home even.

    So I ask is this the nail on the coffin?

    Can we look forward to 2011 if we are not gonna address improving this year’s team and try to get ready for 2011?

    I would love to see Thole play more. I would like to see Ollie start since it is clear they won’t cut him. If the season is shot then there is nothing to lose so start Ollie and maybe we can trade him in off season. If we are gonna play like we are not a playoff team then give me at least the belief we are looking to get better for 2011.

    Sept 1st bring up Gee and Tejada and let them play. I’d say Misch but it seems he is on some punishment and will never be brought up.

    1. trs86

      I am not ready to throw in the towel yet but it’s in the corner.

      As for Thole, yeah you go ahead and make him the everyday starter. Ollie obviously you know my thoughts there, he has to start and see what happens. Of course he is a guy that could pass through waivers too. You could see the dangerous Zambrano for Perez and Castillo deal happen.

      I think Misch has Figgitist. He has no remaining options which if they do not want to lose him would require him to be up the entire year. Not sure why that matters now, but I think that is why he was not brought up earlier.

    2. GravediggerHebner

      With Barajas on the DL anyway Thole is scheduled to start 3 of every 5 games or 60%. That’s roughly starting catcher-ish. Unless he tanks and assuming the Mets do tank I expect Thole to continue starting roughly 60% of the games the even when Barajas is healthy. I think even the Mets are capable of waiving a player (Barajas) in the final year of a cheap contract. Thole just has to show them it’s the right move.

  2. Mr North Jersey

    You think Jerry will go home and pack tonight? How about Minaya does he stay or go with every passing day looking more and more as if this season is over. Maybe Minaya has picks of the Wilpons and won’t be going anywhere.

    1. trs86

      I am fine with Omar, yeah Jerry is gone but I don’t think it happens until the end of the season.

      1. Mr North Jersey

        Yup I kinda figured you was fine with Minaya.

        I guess Minaya in 2011 is just about a certainty.

  3. Mr North Jersey

    There is nothing like the reality that the odds of a post season are slipping away with every passing day.

    It just s*cks.

    1. Kingman 26

      It sure does Mr N. It sure does.

      Again and again and again with this team who we invest so much in.

      One playoff appearance in ten years.

  4. metsfan4decades

    So the Shake Shack burger was the highlight of the Citi fans tonight?

    Really discouraging watching Pelf struggle lately. Even so, we got back in the game, we scored enough to win. Once again though a starter doesn’t get out of the 6th, the BP has to finish out several innings and how long can you keep rolling the dice with that?

    Valdes, because he’s got the job done, was the first called again – for what? 4 days in a row now. After the first HR and single to follow, who out there wasn’t calling for the hook?

    So can someone please ‘splain to me just why we didn’t get another SP to open the season or this past week?

    1. Kingman 26

      “So can someone please ’splain to me just why we didn’t get another SP to open the season or this past week?”

      As Nicky Santoro said in Casino right before he was beaten to death, “…the dollars….always the f****** dollars.”

      The Wilpons may not be cheap, but they clearly have lowered the amount they are willing to spend.

  5. Mr North Jersey

    I wonder what Pagan fetches out on the trade market right now? :-D

    1. trs86

      Why would we trade our starting RF for multiple years to come?

      1. Mr North Jersey

        Yup, what was I thinking.

    2. Kingman 26

      Mr N., who I truly respect, why do you want to trade Pagan?

      Do you really think he could fetch something that valuable?

      Please expound on your thoughts here sir.

      I just am so surprised at how good and how solid fundamentally and how improved he has been.

      I really think he can be a fine starting CF or RF for us for years.

      1. Mr North Jersey

        How do I say this?

        No one has sung the accolades of Pagan in 2010 more than me I think. To me he is the 2010 MVP with all due respect to Wright.

        At the same time I am at a place right now where I am looking to cash in when he is probably at the highest trade value that he has ever been.

        Why? You ask I know.

        Because I don’t want Pagan to fall back to where he has in the past. This has been a great year for Pagan I think we all agree on that. Yet I have a hard time believing that this is how he will play from now on.

        He of little faith? Yes sure ok if the shoe fits but the point remains if we are not going to compete in 2010 for playoffs and this season is pretty much over barring a miracle then I would like to see how much value Pagan has to other teams.

        Maybe he has no market so as many say you keep him. If though Minaya can get a good young arm I would not be opposed to trading Pagan with an eye to the future.

        That’s my 1 cent on the subject.

        1. Kingman 26

          Good answer.

          If we could get a serious good young starting pitching prospect, then maybe you are right.

          I guess I think, largely based on what you say above, that Pagan’s value might not be that high, and all things considered, he might be worth more to us in the OF than to other teams; i.e., we might not get enough if we trade him.

          But you make a good point, and again, if we could get someone else’s Niese or Mejia for him? Yeah, I would have to do that and hope like hell that FMart is finally ready to do something.

        2. GravediggerHebner

          I hear where you’re coming from and you make a valid point about cashing in on Pagan when his value is high. That his value is high now I think is fairly indisputable.

          But I am not in the camp that this is some kind of fluke for Pagan. With each passing successful day I am growing more convinced this is who Pagan is. Here’s why:

          As he received regular playing time last year he got better. He played more in Aug & Sep last year than prior and those were his best 2 months.

          This year he’s had fairly regular playing time and has continued to do well. His 2009 and 2010 (so far) stand out as far better than his previous performance. His 2009 & 2010 are over 60% of his total career, roughly 750 of his 1200 total at bats. In other words he has been “this” Angel Pagan for the majority of his career. More importantly he has been “this” Angel Pagan for the most recent part of his career sort of the exact opposite of Jeff Francoeur in that way.

          As has been noted throughout his tenure with the Mets he has the skills, the tools, however one wants to put it, he just needed refinement and to understand the game better. Thanks to experience, dare I say coaching, and to Carlos Beltran he has become a much better baseball player capable of taking advantage of the skills he has.

          If they can get the moon for him I agree they should trade him. But if it’s not a surefire big return they need to hold onto this fairly young, fairly cheap, talented offensive and defensive player.

          1. Kingman 26

            A far superior enunciation of what I was thinking.

            And one more point is how his game has dramatically improved as far as fundamentals and mental aspects are concerned as he has received more and more playing time.

          2. Mr North Jersey

            You make some nice observations Grave. I sincerely hope that this is no fluke as nothing would make me more happier than seeing Pagan do this again in 2011.

            As I start getting my head into 2011 mode I am looking back on this season to see what is a fluke and what is something to build upon.

            I look at Niese and Dickey and wonder can they continue to grow or will they just lose it the way Pefrey has lately from what he was the 1st 2 months of the season?

            I look at Davis and wonder is he the next Murphy?

            Will Bay ever hit in a NY uniform or is he destined to be the next Bobby Bonilla?

            These are the things that I am left to think about with no faith that the front office can answer those same questions.

            Where is than damn Pint of Bacardi?

          3. GravediggerHebner

            All reasonable questions. I won’t bore you with my thoughts on all of them but…

            Dickey is to me, like Fernando Tatis a few years ago, a special case. There really isn’t any career to point to from history and say “this is what Dickey will be like” except maybe (and I don’t think this is a very good comp) Tim Wakefield. I’m at a point where I believe the only thing that can go truly wrong for Dickey is Dickey. If he somehow loses the grip that allows him to throw the way he does. But as long as he keeps that he throws an unusual pitch unusually well at an unusually high speed. He’s pretty unique and I think that works in his benefit.

            As far as Pagan as recently as a month ago I was all like “trade him he’s a ‘fourth outfielder’” (but in my defense I was saying that about a rumored trade involving him for Cliff Lee). I thought that partly because that’s what he’d been for a while and I assumed when Beltran came back he would just go back to being that. Thank God he played so well and Francoeur played so poorly. I really didn’t think the Mets would have the balls to bench Francoeur but through both of their play Pagan & Francoeur made the choice easy even for the bumbling Mets.

          4. fongy2

            I will tell ya North Jers, Ike is a far superior player than Murph.

  6. Kingman 26

    That snake looks like it ate Mo Vaughn!

    Sorry Rusty if I stole tomorrow’s news!!

    :-)

  7. steveo

    Trade yippy pelfrey

    1. Kingman 26

      Maybe we can get Mike Jacobs back for him??

      1. steveo

        Let someone else believe in him Ive lost faith and patience in big pelf

  8. Kingman 26

    Personally I think the sweep in AZ was the nail in the coffin.

    There is just no way we can leapfrog all these teams when we are completely incapable of winning on the road.

    I love the team, am looking forward to next year, but the fact is the Wilpons will not spend serious money to improve the team, and we better hope like hell that Niese and Ike are ready to be near all-star level in 2011, that Beltran is ready to have a huge walk year, that Reyes is back to 2006–2008 Reyes, that Bay is at least capable of 20 HR/90 RBI, and that someone can play a reasonably productive second base.

    I cannot even imagine what 2011 will be like if most of the above does not happen.

    1. steveo

      Amen

    2. metsfan4decades

      You know…if the Mets are really broke, I’d have less of a problem if the Wilpons just said so. The fact that they’ve been quoted not once, but twice saying it’s not so, they’ve got money to spend, Omar will get what he needs, then just makes me more angry that we didn’t go out and get what we need – namely pitching.

      It might be just me but if the Wilpons admitted to a money problem, asked the fans for patience as they sorted it out and promised to try and field the best possible team with what they had to work with, then I probably wouldn’t mind half as much. As it is, I’m left extremely frustrated with it all b/c they say they’ve got money to spend, but they’re not spending it.

      If the not spending it is all on Omar, who is being too conservative, then it’s time to reevaluate the GM position.

      So much speculation….so little answers…..

      1. Kingman 26

        I definitely don’t think they are broke, I just think they have cut what they are willing to spend, as the economy (and maybe Madoff) has clearly affected them.

        They have been pretty good and pretty generous owners, but the Bronx Greenbacks are a difficult team to share a city with.

        The ridiculous, pathologically dishonest appearance with Francesa last fall definitely did not help matters.

      2. fongy2

        Yeah…Strange how
        the story about the Wilpon’s being sued over Madoff just happened to run this afternoon…Hey, I’ve enjoyed the season!…
        Like I posted earlier today, we learned ALOT about ALOT of guys important for the future this season.
        We also get closer to the end of Ollie’s,Castillo’s & Beltran’s contracts.
        Unfortunate Showalter took the dead-end O’s
        job, b/c THATs exactly the type of guy we need when ST opens in 2011!…I think Jerry’s a goner after the season and maybe, just maybe Freddy sees the light and figures it’s not a great idea to have Omar make the call on the next Mgr,
        or be the face of the org in the winter while
        trying to re-tool for
        2011. Like I said, it
        was a pretty fun and very interesting half season BUT The 2010 Mets left their playoff chances on the westcoast just after the Allstar break.
        The team didn’t look ready to fight for that WC spot after the break and that is Jerry’s,Omar’s and the
        player’s fault. There’s
        enough blame to go around. Lastly, good to see the hated yankees filling holes they don’t have!…
        Funny how you can really tell the teams
        that want to win it all
        as opposed to the teams
        which hope enough will break right so that maybe they can make a playoff run………

  9. stickguy

    glad I was not around to see this game.

    i think the fork is in them at this point. Just too big a hole.

    so it will be interesting to see what the team does from here on out.

    as long as jerry at minimum is gone at year end, I am flexible!

    1. Kingman 26

      Well, then you should be ultra-flexible, as there is ZERO chance that your beloved Jidiot will be back if we don’t make the playoffs, or at least win 90+ and barely miss.

      Which is impossible.

  10. Kingman 26

    Yanks acquire Berkman AND Kearns?

    LOL!

    They are beyond a joke.

    I SWEAR I am not jealous. I just think one team outspending everyone else by this margin is just ridiculous and makes a mockery of the sport.

    1. fongy2

      Yeah, same feeling man!
      Would it surprise you see
      hear the yanks get Lilly
      and maybe a RP tomorrow before the deadline???
      I will say though with them and the phils, what many fans
      and apparently our ownership doesn’t understand how much value in so many regards come
      with winning a championship.
      It’s not just about satisfying your fans BUT all the extra money, the expose to players from other teams etc, etc…
      That comes along with Winning.

      1. gategem

        Precisely! I remember the mid to late 1960’s when the Yankees owned by CBS were perennial losers. Yankee Stadium was a ghost town. There was also a time in the late 1980’s I believe when Steinbrenner threatened to move the team to New Jersey. But all the successful Yankee teams (meaning making the post season) over the past 14 or so years has translated into an incredible revenue stream.

    2. gategem

      From MLBTR:

      “The Astros are contributing $4MM or so of the $7.1MM owed to Berkman.”

  11. steveo

    Look omar must go he sucks. The wilpons on the other hand will never admit to been broke,they have to many other business relations tied into the mets. So admiting they were broke would be putting a surender flag up and the fans would never be forgiving to them for that.I’ve been to citifield early this year and everything cost a fortune there,so if they said they were financialy strap, the people going to the games at citi paying 8 bucks for a slice of pizza might have a little problem with the patience thing

    1. fongy2

      Spot on Steveo!…
      I’d bet my house that there are GMs in the game who LOL
      after calls from Omar…..
      And I don’t say that lightly,
      either in terms of betting my home or that many of these
      GMs who are chess players see
      Omar as a 5 year boy with checkers in his hands.

  12. metsfan4decades

    All other teams in the NL east were active leading up to this trade deadline. Now I’m reading the Marlins are actively seeking relief pitching.

    The Mets did zip, unless you count ‘trading’ Mike Jacobs…..

    The Dodgers – who the owners are currently duking it out in divorce court – are about to acquire Lilly.

    Wouldn’t this lack of inactivity be on the GM? Omar? Hello?

    Regarding Fongy’s comment:
    Funny how you can really tell the teams
    that want to win it all
    as opposed to the teams
    which hope enough will break right so that maybe they can make a playoff run………
    *****************************

    A couple of weeks ago I might have disagreed with this and about keeping Omar past 2010. Now….not so sure. Not unless the plan all along was to stand pat and retool for 2011. Really though…it’s hard to think the FO actually was running with that plan from the get go.

    1. fongy2

      Thats exactly my problem with Omar and Ownership…They seem
      to come up with a new plan every few months.
      This is what bad teams do.
      Whats seperated us from being just plain bad the past few yrs in spending.
      I have very little faith that Omar without anopen checkbook
      and Jerry w/o healthy, top-notch players can win even enough to get us back to the playoffs.
      This team needs more than anything really smart,experienced baseball men
      running the FO and team.

    2. DNDJohan aka kistics

      Here’s what Omar will say come Monday

      “We did have plenty of opportunities to make the trades, but they weren’t the right trades to make”.

      So the right trade would be like Evans & Parnell for Lee?

  13. GravediggerHebner

    per Anthony DiComo

    David Wright: “We’ve got to go out there and play pretty near-perfect baseball from here on out.”

    1. gategem

      Well fortunately they still have two chances to win a game from the Arizona juggernaut. So there’s still time.

  14. Hazmet

    Maybe next year the goal will be to play meaningful games in August. I’m so disgusted. I’ll continue to watch and hope but it’s just difficult to peek my interest with Jidiot Rex at the helm. Just when I think there’s nothing else he can do to confound the mind he finds a way. Great recap as usual driving home the strangeness and cluelessness of it all. Can we trade for a new manager by the deadline?

    1. fongy2

      Now that first line really
      did make me LOL!!!…
      And while Showalter’s gone,
      I’ll hold out hope for Bobby V
      ..Or even Torre.

      1. Hazmet

        Bobby V is the man. My first, second, and third choice. It’ll be interesting to see who “lights up the room” this year. The only thing scarier then Omar picking the next Manager is the Wilpon’s. Hopefully, they select a sage GM to make the call so we don’t get Melvin’d.

        1. fongy2

          Well EVERYONE
          knows how I feel about this!
          s/w Bobby V,
          find a sage low-key, serious minded GM w/o
          any agendas except winning
          make sure they’re cool working together
          and get out of their way….
          THAT SHOULD BE THE WILPON’S
          PLAN A,B&C!!!

  15. fongy2

    Wow, I just read where the Dodgers are very close to getting Lilly AND
    Theriot from the scrubbies…..
    It’ll be interesting to see..For what?
    Those are two guys who would fit here perfectly!…b/t/w, I thought they were broke too??
    This yrs trade deadline really has given me agita!!!…Seems like there have been plenty of guys moved who would have been great fits…And not
    just now for a possible run BUT for next season since it really does appear to me we aren’t THAT far away
    from being serious contenders.

  16. fongy2

    I was watching the end of the brave-red gm and it looked like Prado who already has an injured LH, seriously
    hurt his RH sliding headfirst into
    homw plate……..Any chance they’d
    take Luis Aches&Pains off our hands??

    1. GravediggerHebner

      As much as we’d love that won’t they probably just stick Omar Infante out there?

      1. fongy2

        I know, I know….
        I was hoping for a cheap laugh…..
        Although I guess with
        Castillo, it ain’t so cheap…..
        But maybe if he has a bounce back Spring Training and Omar’s still in charge, he’ll
        get an extention????
        JuuNoWatEmmSayin’???
        Has there been a Kelvim Escobar sighting
        yet????…………..

      2. DNDJohan aka kistics

        He’s an All-Star

  17. GravediggerHebner

    This whole White Sox Edwin Jackson Nats Adam Dunn saga is interesting.

    1. fongy2

      It is indeed. I’ll tell ya Heb
      I’ve seen alot of Dunn this yr
      since comcast has been giving us MASN on my sports package
      AND he really is a very good
      and dangerous hitter…..
      HE is though even more of a butcher in the field than me
      and most other fans think
      and have thought….
      He is a perfect AL player
      and apparently a good guy and
      well liked teammate.

  18. trs86

    I stand by my post today. The best move for Omar to make at this point is no move. We could not get Haren, Lee or Oswalt without giving up Niese or Davis. The Cubs want Thole for Lilly and the Jays want Captain Kirk plus one for a middle reliever.
    Do we honestly think that if the Mets got Lilly, or had to trade Niese or Davis to get a top of the rotation pitcher that we would suddenly be that much of a better team that would vault itself back into the race?

    As much as it pains me to say it the team is just not playing well enough to take those type gambles. If for some reason they can get back into the race in a couple of weeks then you can always get someone of Lily’s ability or slightly less in a waiver deal.

    I know it’s frustrating to watch other teams trade for guys but those other teams have a deeper farm system and or are closer in their races.

    What I can’t figure out is why suddenly everyone turns to money just like the media wants them to. The Mets chose not to make a deal in the off-season on Lackey, it’s about money. Mets “choose” not to make a deal for Oswalt, it’s about money. Where in there is the reasoning that maybe Lackey did not want to come here and or he was being vastly overpaid for too many years. Or the fact that while Happ has less value than Niese, we had no one comparable to him.

    So I guess I am supposed to believe that the money the Mets offered Pineiro and Molina in the off-season (15Mish) is suddenly gone and they have no money to spend? Again, perhaps they are finally becoming more wise with who they spend that money on and what prospects they trade? Nah, they are broke losers who don’t want to win.

    Sigh…
    Gonna be a long summer for me I guess.

    1. Kingman 26

      “Nah, they are broke losers who don’t want to win.”

      Certainly not something I said.

      Suggesting that the team does not want to spend above and beyond the very high level they are already spending is not saying they are broke nor is it saying they don’t want to win.

      And the Pineiro and Molina situations were long ago.

    2. gategem

      It’s going to be a long summer because of the team’s play. What people say or write about the ownership is irrelevant and unless you are related I don’t understand why you take it so personally.

      1. Mr North Jersey

        well said.

      2. trs86

        Don’t take it personally at all. However, it will make it very difficult to read the comment section if 9/10 comments are about something with no factual basis at all.

    3. DNDJohan aka kistics

      Omar’s job is to negotiate and try to lower their price to what is more reasonable to both teams. Sure other teams will call high at first, but you try to negotiate with them and sell what you have.

      If you were a GM of other teams, wouldn’t you try to call high at first? I would. But Omar can’t just hang up the phone. If he really wants someone, he needs to negotiate for them.

      To me, the Mets missed the boat back in AS break. I believe that was the time to make any deals needed. It’s too late now to make any deals. The Mets can’t get out of their own way.

  19. njstuckintx

    Small Pelf… sigh. you’ve lost my confidence for sure.

    And our beloved Mets… I’m just glad they could show me what an actual train wreck looks like.

  20. gategem

    “Unfortunately Valdes has an OPS-against of .852 versus left handed hitters…”

    From Adam Rubin:

    “Valdes had retired Johnson in all three meetings in Arizona, twice via strikeout.

    ‘That was truly a surprise, because I thought that was a tremendous matchup in our favor — even going on the small bit of history that they had against each other,’ Manuel said about the Johnson-Valdes matchup. ‘As I recollect, the couple of at-bats in Arizona it just looked like there was no chance that he would get a hit. But he gave up that home run. Obviously the home run to Montero was also huge. I think, for me, the most surprising thing tonight was that part of the game. That was very surprising’ ”

  21. njstuckintx

    At least the Mets won’t have to face Chad Qualls again tonight. Shipped off to Tampa Bay.

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