Today’s question regards the Mets and their GM’s decision not to make any trades before the deadline.
Do you agree with Omar in not making any trades using any of our Single, Double or Triple A prospects? Why or why not?
Aug 01
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55 comments
njstuckintx
8/1/2010-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
This is a 2 part question with 2 different answers. It is a ‘yes’ and a ‘no’.
Yes, Omar did right by not trading away the kids. Ike, Niese, Thole, Mejia, etc. are the future of this club. Cheap, under control and showing to be pretty dang good.
& No, Omar did not do right by not making any trades. Castillo, Perez, Francouer, Cora, Feliciano (if he brought back the reported asking amount of Scott Downs).
“But why would you trade Feliciano TX? That’s dumb. D-U-M dumb. He’s about the best option out of the pen! How can the Met’s make a run at the post season without him?!?” My response to that is by not making a move, they pretty much tossed in the towel. Why not toss the towel just a little further…
stickguy
8/1/2010-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
what he said.
rustyjr
8/1/2010-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
Ditto
ceetar
8/1/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
Feliciano’s value was super high. And LOOGY’s are really not that big a deal. (although maybe they are in Jerry’s pen? But he’s not necessarily using him in that regard exclusively) If you could get a bucketload for him, i would’ve traded him.
I’m disappointed the Mets didn’t figure out some sort of trade to make. But most of what was out there was crap, or too much of a crapshoot, to trade prospects for. Especially since the biggest problem on the team is inconsistency, managing, and underperforming. What trade is going to make Jason Bay hit 20 home runs, get Castillo back to career averages or make Ike Davis grow up faster? Does one pitcher really get you that much over Takahashi? probably not. Especially the pitchers you can trade for without giving up much. Plus the Mets didn’t have a ton of pitching prospects to trade, which is what people wanted, and they should keep the ones they have, because they’re much more set offensively and those pitching prospects are the ones we need.
Now a trade that dumps some of the players we don’t like? Frenchy was likely staying becaues Bay got hurt. (we can go back and forth about playing Jesus or whatever, but Frenchy is gonna be the guy most of the time anyway) Tejada is nowhere near ready, and even a not up to speed Castillo is giving us more than he did. So trading him is basically giving up (if they hadn’t already treated this season like gravy) No one really wants Perez. that’s a different issue in regards to roster. Cora? maybe..but you’re not exactly going to get a ton for a backup MI. How many teams did you hear “I really like what we’ve got, maybe look to upgrade our backups a little bit” Cora’s good for that role, but it’s just not highly demanded to matter
Kingman 26
8/1/2010-1:38pm at 1:38 pm (UTC -4)
I think we needed to keep Feliciano, but I really agree with your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs.
metsfan4decades
8/1/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
I just don’t think Feliciano was going to net us what some think he might have.
We need SP more than anything. The only way I could justify trading Feliciano by yesterday is for a SP that was more than a rental. Given who was left by end of this week, it would take Feliciano and then some to bring back a SP. Feliciano is up there in years. Still have to throw in some young prospects to make it happen, especially since the teams trading these pitchers were mostly rebuilding. I just don’t see how how attractive it would have been throwing Feliciano into the mix.
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
he meant trading him for prospects
njstuckintx
8/1/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
correct.
saltygary
8/1/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Omar did absolutely the right thing by not trading to upgrade the team for this season. This team has had every opportunity to rise up and show that they can contend, and they flopped. My only criticism is not designating Cora for assignment. I want that contract off the books. It is clear that every extra million counts. He still needs 20 more games for that option to kick in so theres still hope.
For Omar’s criticism about not trading Ollie or Frenchy or Castillo. When you trade players that no-one wants the team will get the shaft somewhere else. Frenchy is also needed because of Bay and we never know about Beltran at this point.
With next season in mind there are a lot of tough decisions looming and some of them may make the team worse for the sake of the long term. I’ll hold off on speculating until the off-season but I have a feeling that 2011 is going to have a much different look and it won’t just be the coaches. I can only hope that the Wilpons understand that ’06 is a distant memory.
stickguy
8/1/2010-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
I agree about cora, but the mets never seem to think like that. And it isnt really just the contract, since even at 2mill for the BU MI, it isn’t going to make that much of a difference.
I would just prefer to have someone filling the role that was likely to be more productive!
Frenchy though was not really needed. he could have been replaced by any number of other players, since he doesn’t add much value.
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
as long as Ollie and Castillo remain on the roster, i can’t see them being a real contending team. I just don’t understand how they can leave Ollie on the team in a pennant race when he hurts them day in and day out.
I understand they want to trade him or more likely see if he can regain his form in ST but at what point do you have to come to your senses and just give up. I think its very reasonable to suggest he has directly or indirectly cost the team at least 3-5 wins so far this season, and he’s inevitably going to cost us more
stickguy
8/1/2010-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
no particular reason maybe, but I actually do believe that slappy and ollie will bother not be on the team next season.
there is a possibility that ollie gets a shot in ST to show some value, although it is hard to see that amounting to anything beyond trying to trade him, otherwise being released.
slappy, ollie, frenchy, maine, barajas should all be gone, if the team has the faintest amount of common sense.
stickguy
8/1/2010-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
oh wow, how did I forget the other big name? Jerry has to be gone too. But I guess that is a given.
and I think a much greater chance now that Omar gets reassigned, with a new “genius” getting a chance to move the organization forward.
but, if he is given some latitude to work with (and any budget $), Omar is not incapable of making some important changes. Just more likely that a new guy would handle the clean up better.
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
i am not fan of Omar’s strategy of getting 1 big name player and filling the rest with minor league contracts. Its not an effective way of doing things as it more often than not leaves below avg production in multiple spots.
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
having Ollie or Castillo even in ST is wrong. They have to send a message that they mean business but just them even getting a chance is bad news.
I understand Castillo is still a very good bunter and he gets on base but he’s batting .235 with a .607 OPS and a .275 SLG. You can’t have those numbers and be injury prone and have suspect defense. The Mets are going to need someone at 2B next season who can drive in runs in the 7 hole while also not being a liability in the field. I really think Juan Uribe can be that guy and he can also start at 3B or SS if need be.
trs86
8/1/2010-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
Nothing wrong with Frenchy OR Barajas as long as they are bench players.
GravediggerHebner
8/1/2010-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
I agree with what I perceive to be the sentiment above. I am good with the Mets not making any trades yesterday of the “going for it in 2010″ variety while being disappointed that they didn’t make any trades of the “building for the future” variety.
Not making any trades yesterday was not made into a problem through the team’s inaction yesterday it was made into a problem months ago when the team said it would use it’s resources at the deadline.
Why the organization’s mouthpieces make declarations such as this is confounding. They dig holes for themselves with these unnecessary statements. They did it again yesterday when Minaya said roughly “near the end of the trade deadline period we were ‘close’ on a couple things.” “Close?” Who cares. Close only counts in horseshoes, hand grenades and atom bombs. Close is irrelevant at the trade deadline and only exacerbates the frustration of the fan base.
If I could have sat down with Minaya yesterday shortly before he met the press I would have told him “just say ‘we couldn’t agree on terms with anyone for anyone. Next question.’” Saying you were “close” may be seen by someone within the organization as a positive thing (“we went down swinging”) but it simply is not.
njstuckintx
8/1/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
PR never has been Omar’s strongest asset.
Mr North Jersey
8/1/2010-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Well said.
Can I add that Minaya once he decided that this team just really did not have a realistic shot at the playoffs and any trade he made would be just wasting prospects that can be used down the road (off season) to make a deal with an eye to 2011. It is hard to find fault with that.
Now though then I expect to see moves made with an eye to 2011.
PS – If you have yet to read it check out Rubin’s article yesterday about the Mets prospects and moving forward. It has nice interesting observations.
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/news/story?id=5427066
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
that is why i continue to blame the wilpons. the farm system is a direct fault of the wilpon’s not spending money on these latin kids.
Although why not reassign Minaya to head of international signings and bring in someone for the draft. That way Omar who is a specialist in that area can do what he does best and someone like Kevin Towers can run the draft, which he does best.
trs86
8/1/2010-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
Towers could run the draft, I am fine with that. However, I am not fine with him running a large market team. Thus why would he leave the Yanks?
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
because Cashman is the GM and isnt going anywhere anytime soon?
tkfj2
8/1/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
Lol at todays lineup.
1. Reyes
2. Feliciano
3. Pagan
4. Wright
5. Davis
6. Francouer
7. Thole
8. Cora
9. Niese
Breaking up the Reyes-Pagan combo and batting Francouer 6th. Conceding the rubber game?
njstuckintx
8/1/2010-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
break up reyes-pagan or have 5-9 just be horrible. Not too many good options either way.
tkfj2
8/1/2010-11:46am at 11:46 am (UTC -4)
True. I would bat Niese ahead of Francouer and Cora, in all seriousness.
Thole, Niese, Francouer, Cora.
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
well with Beltran getting a break, they need Pagan in the middle of the order. you can definitely argue Frenchy over Thole but then again do you really want Frenchy, Cora, Niese rounding out the bottom 3???
Feliciano deserves the start b/c of his clutch hit yesterday so i actually do believe this is the best lineup for this collection of players…
trs86
8/1/2010-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
You mean the Thole that is currently in a terrible slump of 1/17 and 2/25?
Not much of a difference where you bat him until he comes out of that slump.
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
true but Thole does walk and drawing a walk with Cora and Niese behind you is a little counter-productive…but like i said, with these 9 players, this is probably the best lineup you can pick
trs86
8/1/2010-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
He does walk but even at that he’s in an OBP slump.
GravediggerHebner
8/1/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
These are both small samples but the same thing was true of Thole in 2009. He got off to an amazing start then largely did nothing but wound up with attractive stats because of the great quality of his start.
I admit I change my thought on this depending on what day it is but when I see Parnell suck yesterday and consider that Thole runs so hot then so cold so far in his career I wonder why trading them for Myers was a bad idea.
trs86
8/1/2010-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
I think the problem is who else do we have for catcher long-term AND will the Mets get a player better than Myers for next year’s rotation. Looks like the chances are the Stros extend his contract.
trs86
8/1/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
First of all I agree with not trading any prospects based on the demands we saw. 2nd the trading season is not over, it has another month. In another 2 weeks we will REALLY know if we are out of the race or not. At that point most of the guys we have could be traded through waivers. Francouer, Castillo, Perez, many of them could pass. While yes Feliciano has value and he is just a loogy he also has value as a type A FA that can be offered arbitration and either get a cheap LH reliever that consistently leads the league in appearances OR 2 draft picks. Again, it’s still possible that he could get traded through waivers, more unlikely than the others of course.
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
i could see the Mets trying to put Perez on revocable waivers, have a team claim, and then pull him back because they don’t want him to leave for nothing. just imagine that…
trs86
8/1/2010-11:58am at 11:58 am (UTC -4)
Obviously at this point it would be that team has to pay all the cash unless they work out a deal. The hope there would be the Mets picking up a large part of the cash or taking back another contract that will pass through.
stickguy
8/1/2010-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
no team in their right mind would put in a claim. The mets would have the option to just hand over the rest of the contract. And no need to ask for anything back.
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
of course but i could just see the Mets botching it and say well we figured we could get a better deal by trading him…
trs86
8/1/2010-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
Right the only way that would happen is if the Mets already had a standing agreement with the team that claimed him.
GravediggerHebner
8/1/2010-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
I agree. No GM is foolish enough to claim him at this stage and risk being handed that player with that contract.
DNDJohan aka kistics
8/1/2010-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
I think Omar should’ve made moves before/around AS break when this team was actually in the race. It really is time to re-evaluate Omar’s job at the end of this season. 2010 is his 6th year and this team has made the playoffs once since he got here even with one of the highest payroll in NL. That has to mean something.
Sure there was the injury plagued season in ’09 or the great collapse in ’07. But no matter how it happened, the result is that this team made only one playoff appearance during his tenure.
In the mean time, rivals of this team has won WS rings. ’06 Cards, ’08 Phils, ’09 Yanks.
trs86
8/1/2010-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
Oh no, it’s that mystery move of trading a crap load of prospects for Lee or Haren. LOL.
Kingman 26
8/1/2010-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
Tough and very good question.
I really don’t know the answer, but I largely agree with TRS.
As far as ridiculous proposals like what the Astros supposedly wanted for Myers, Omar was certainly wise to laugh. And I did not want Lilly or Westbrook any more than Pineiro/Marquis/etc.
But I think, as we really don’t know what the real and actual offerings were, we really can’t make very educated guesses.
If we could have gotten rid of Ollie and added Zambrano? This might have been worth a look; but again it does not really answer your question.
And if we could have gotten Oswalt with just one top prospect and lower minor leaguers? Maybe this should have been done if it was on the table, but if it meant giving up Niese? Maybe not.
Definitely a very frustrating time for the Met fan, but I still really think that 2011 will finally quench our parched desire for a frigin good team.
trs86
8/1/2010-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
Right, like it or not the only thing we have to judge by are published reports and what actually happen. Based on what actually happen, we were not getting an impact pitcher without giving up Niese or Davis.
metsfan4decades
8/1/2010-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
I still believe it wasn’t making any trades at this deadline, with the position we’re in, that’s going to define the season.
It’s not getting a SP going into the season, rolling the dice with the likes of Maine and Perez, starting GMJ in CF and Jacobs at 1st that put us behind the 8 ball to begin with.
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
the question is what will they do this offseason to rememdy this problem.
Are they going to fill the roster will guys who can get the job done or are they going to use the guys that, even though they can’t get the job done, are going to keep getting the opportunity.
Are they going to add one big name player and fill the rest with minor league deals, or are they going to spread the money around and fill all the holes
trs86
8/1/2010-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
Honestly, the Mets were not going to replace Castillo after the year he had. They were not going to replace Frenchy after the year he had. They brought in two very useful catchers. So offensively this team should have been able to get it done. They have underperformed. Pitching, yes you could make the case they could have spent on a reliever and or SP. As much as we like to say it though, they were not going to go out and get a big name SP and release Ollie or Maine before the season ever started. Our best chance and what I think they planned to do was to get Pineiro at a reasonable rate and shift Maine to the pen or trade him for Hart. It did not happen.
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
i’m talking about this offseaon…
trs86
8/1/2010-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
Well part of that was not the Mets. Really GMJR did nothing to their chances. Pagan got 90% of the playing time. Also Jacobs was brought in as insurance to Murphy, not to start. I can’t say that two bench players is what hurt us.
As I said earlier, the starting pitcher hurts but it has not really hurt us that much this year. A Jason Marquis, Pineiro or even a Lackey was not going to pitch better than Dickey and he was the last resort.
metsfan4decades
8/1/2010-1:12pm at 1:12 pm (UTC -4)
Watching the induction ceremony…..and it’s about time.
If we had only known back then what we know now….we should have cloned Frank Cashen.
Kingman 26
8/1/2010-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
And never fired Davey Johnson!!
I am sure you are another one who is getting goosebumps and almost teary-eyed watching this.
Dwight Gooden a grandfather? How old are we getting MF4D?
What a great period that was.
May the next great period begin in the spring of 2011…
metsfan4decades
8/1/2010-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Oh yeah…you’ve got that right.
LOL…Kingman. Only thing I can say about reaching the age that I am now, it means I was alive and well as a 20 something year old during that magical 86 season.
Daryl’s speech gave me more than goosebumps.
metsfan4decades
8/1/2010-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
Bobby O, who actually was a part of that team, almost looks teary eyed himself. One big smile on his face.
Kingman 26
8/1/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed and agreed!
I think for my Dad nothing will ever equal 1969, and for me, I can only hope that some Met team may be as amazing and magical and enthralling as that 86 team was, literally from the first days of spring training until that last out of the WS.
oleosmirf
8/1/2010-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
well he really shouldn’t be a grandfather at 45 so don’t feel too old…
metsfan4decades
8/1/2010-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
Doc Gooden, thanking his family:
‘I have a lot of kids, stay with me’
Kingman 26
8/1/2010-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
Good point Oleo!
And LOL MF4D! That was funny as hell!