#Mets Wednesday lineup vs. Colorado: Reyes-SS, Pagan-LF, Wright-3B, Beltran-CF, Hessman-1B, Francoeur-RF, Blanco-C, Castillo-2B, Niese-LHP
New York Mets
NewYorkMets
Aug 11
Twitter Tweet: Tonight’s Lineup 8/11/2010 Is This The 2 Wins In A Row Lineup?
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55 comments
ceetar
8/11/2010-3:02pm at 3:02 pm (UTC -4)
Free Ike..
Fernando..
bleh.
metsfan4decades
8/11/2010-3:29pm at 3:29 pm (UTC -4)
LOL..
My one word response to this post was going to be ‘bleh’…..
prismo
8/11/2010-3:03pm at 3:03 pm (UTC -4)
Ike didn’t play Thursday, Saturday, or Monday…yet he’s sitting. He hasn’t played in two straight days since a week ago! It’s boneheaded decisions like this that should get Jerry fired.
DNDJohan aka kistics
8/11/2010-3:05pm at 3:05 pm (UTC -4)
+10
Kingman 26
8/11/2010-3:10pm at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
Completely outrageous, inexcusable, unaccountable, apathetic bull****.
Sitting Ike AND FMart for a nothing minor leaguer and one of the least productive offensive players in the game.
How can we turn off what remains of the dwindling fan base?
I know, sit Ike!
Vomit.
stickguy
8/11/2010-3:24pm at 3:24 pm (UTC -4)
yup. Playing out the string is when the rookies get a chance to work on their weaknesses.
although I suppose Jerry could claim they still think they are in the race, and does not want to raise the white flag?
ALthough starting hessman (who I think is actually a great bench guy. keep him next year), frenchy and blanco isn’t exactly putting your best out there!
oleosmirf
8/11/2010-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
the problem is the Wilpons wont fire Manuel b/c they believe if Manuel and co still preach were still in the race that fans will keep coming to the stadium and watch on TV. Glad to see they think so highly of the fans’ intelligence level.
I understand starting Hessman and Frenchy against the non-hardthrowing lefty but I just dont know why you sit Tejada against a lefty where he is batting .281 against them this season.
Kingman 26
8/11/2010-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
All of the kids should be playing.
They played a hustling, crisp game last night and beat one of baseball’s best pitchers.
I am sick of this crap. Mike Hessman?!?! Give me a break.
Nick Evans should have his damn spot on the team.
And are we going to wait until FMart is 30 to see if he can hit lefties?
Frenchy SUCKS. Castillo is done. Hessman is less than nothing.
Sorry, last night’s optimism did not last as long as I had hoped.
This lineup is exhibit A of why the time for managerial change is now, as I read somewhere recently….
youngvalerawest
8/11/2010-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t see why you keep stumping for Evans over Carter or Hessman for a bench role.
Other than his age, he has no obvious improvements over them. He doesn’t bring much defensive value and his minor league offensive credentials are not as strong as the other two, which includes his complete flop at AAA last season.
His major league numbers are roughly the same as Carter’s so far, and in slightly more at bats.
These other guys have never gotten extended chances in the big leagues and could very well turn out to be competent producers.
Evans could still stand to develop at AAA, playing regularly.
Kingman 26
8/11/2010-4:35pm at 4:35 pm (UTC -4)
With all due respect, have you looked at Hessman’s numbers? The guy is 32 and his CAREER minor league line is .231/.314/.460!
He hit .217 with a .324 OBP this year in AAA and you are defending starting him over Ike??
youngvalerawest
8/11/2010-4:51pm at 4:51 pm (UTC -4)
No. I never once said anything supportive of starting him over Ike.
I said he might be more deserving of a bench spot than Nick Evans.
And he was actually hitting .274 .351 .573 in AAA this season.
He stunk at AAA last year as did Evans. But had totaled about 90 HRs in AAA the three seasons prior to this.
Kingman 26
8/11/2010-6:20pm at 6:20 pm (UTC -4)
OK I had last year’s AAA stats.
youngvalerawest
8/11/2010-3:23pm at 3:23 pm (UTC -4)
Since Jerry is a predictable idiot, I suppose he’s sitting Davis because there is a left handed pitcher.
Of course Jerry is the only who doesn’t know that Ike has hit lefties .276 .344 .414 v. .243 .322 .438 against righties.
This does nothing but temporarily stunt Ike’s development. He needs to play against lefties, righties and Pat Venditte.
ceetar
8/11/2010-3:28pm at 3:28 pm (UTC -4)
I’m sure Ike is sitting for one reason only, 1 singular AB last night where he struck out.
metsfan4decades
8/11/2010-3:30pm at 3:30 pm (UTC -4)
Ike got a walk last night which is more than some of the others did….
Bipolar season, bipolar line-ups.
Sigh….
njstuckintx
8/11/2010-3:28pm at 3:28 pm (UTC -4)
As they currently are, is this lineup better than yesterdays?
ceetar
8/11/2010-3:29pm at 3:29 pm (UTC -4)
yes. but yesterday had Tejada and Carter in it. Frenchy against lefty at least isn’t too much of a *cringe*.
oleosmirf
8/11/2010-3:44pm at 3:44 pm (UTC -4)
the thing is will Jerry PH for him when a RHP comes in from the pen in a crucial spot or will he let Francouer stay b/c of his gut feeling/not wanting to make him upset.
njstuckintx
8/11/2010-3:51pm at 3:51 pm (UTC -4)
Which is frustrating how much the Lefty/righty match up thing gets so overplayed.
Is that how they flipped with Wally/Tueffle back in 86? or Lenny/Mookie? Or even Hojo/Knight?
oleosmirf
8/11/2010-4:25pm at 4:25 pm (UTC -4)
I wasnt alive then, nor will i make decisions based on what happened in 1986 but since you must it seems Backman/Teufel was as strict platoon as you can get. the RH Teufel barely played against RHP and the SH Backman pretty much only played against RHP as he batted .340 against RHP and .192 against LHP.
also Lenny could not hit LHP at all .223 while he was .314 against RHP. the RH Knight batted .379 against LHP and .243 against RHP. HoJo and Mookie were switch hitters with similar splits.
seems like not only did some of these guys have intense splits but Davey was smart enough to figure this out and put out the best lineup everyday so it seems like the success of the 86 offense was the lefty/righty matchups and it is not overplayed but extremely underplayed.
GravediggerHebner
8/11/2010-3:33pm at 3:33 pm (UTC -4)
I have nothing against Mike Hessman but he shouldn’t be playing over Ike at this juncture. As Prismo notes it’s not like Davis is overworked. And without even looking it up I feel pretty sure Hessman hasn’t been sitting gathering dust for 15 days like Tatis did at times so it’s not like he needs the game either.
I can’t remember the last time Castillo played but I feel like he probably shouldn’t be playing either it hasn’t been so long he’s turned to rust.
But the thing that really galls me is that little b*tch Francoeur in the lineup. That whiny complaining little b*tch shouldn’t see the light of day except in emergencies and even then only after all thoughts of playing starting pitchers in his place are exhausted. B*tch.
Thank you for letting me get that off my chest.
njstuckintx
8/11/2010-3:35pm at 3:35 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t hold back dude. Just let it rip!
youngvalerawest
8/11/2010-3:37pm at 3:37 pm (UTC -4)
Him being a b*tch aside, I don’t have much of a problem with him playing v. lefties because it’s the right role for him.
GravediggerHebner
8/11/2010-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
You’re correct if he plays at all it should be against LH starters as his splits show. But I’m looking at it from the perspective of getting FMart at bats to see what he has to offer. And from the perspective of Francoeur being a little b*tch.
GravediggerHebner
8/11/2010-3:39pm at 3:39 pm (UTC -4)
Woah! I let Brandon Phillips borrow my computer for a minute…
Mr North Jersey
8/11/2010-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
hahahahahaha
ceetar
8/11/2010-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
if we’re giving up, yeah, Martinez and Tejada every day. If not, I guess you gotta let Frenchy play against lefties and Castillo should be the st arter.
njstuckintx
8/11/2010-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
And maybe they both jack a couple of bombs and are traded during the post game show. (insert smiley face with eyes that are rolling)
oleosmirf
8/11/2010-3:46pm at 3:46 pm (UTC -4)
the Mets gave up the second they brought Oliver Perez up from the minor leagues knowing full well he couldnt contribute to the team.
metsfan4decades
8/11/2010-4:03pm at 4:03 pm (UTC -4)
+1
GravediggerHebner
8/11/2010-3:52pm at 3:52 pm (UTC -4)
I can see how someone who was/is genuinely optimistic about the team such as yourself would consider it “giving up.” But I don’t consider my stance giving up because I never had high expectations for the team in the 1st place and other than 26 games in June the team has not exceeded my modest expectations.
So combining my thoughts that they’d never be in the post season to begin with with the reality of their position in the division and wildcard currently and the mathematical (im)probabilities related to that position I’m interested in the players who are deemed to be part of the future, part of the solution, getting playing time to help with the determination of whether they are indeed a part of the future or not.
Francoeur is certainly not a part of that future. And Castillo, while yes he was on an uptick prior to his demotion from the starting lineup, is still close to the bottom of the barrel in MLB at 2B both offensively and defensively and if a replacement can be found sooner rather than later I feel that should be explored too.
ceetar
8/11/2010-4:07pm at 4:07 pm (UTC -4)
Castillo was close to the bottom due to slumping and injury though. He’s better than that and was starting to show it. Also, he’s still, at this juncture, much better than Tejada who showed merely a month ago that he’s not ready for the big leagues.
I think they should, now in the last year of the deal and him seemingly finding ways to be injured like random bone bruises on his foot keeping him out of the lineup, look to find a patient hitting 2B upgrade that can field well in the offseason, but for right now it seems unlikely that Tejada’s going to do something to deem himself worthy of the job next year.
While the original optimism was certainly part of it, it’s the attitude of the team, not me, that I consider giving up. demoting Castillo to ‘part time’, bringing Ollie up, early/at all, etc, as things that seem to say to me “let’s see what we can do here..” but in that case they should fire Manuel and promote a temp that will follow orders “play Fernando, play Ike” etc.
youngvalerawest
8/11/2010-4:16pm at 4:16 pm (UTC -4)
Tejada brings better defense than Castillo. Castillo might bring better offense but it is only marginal because bloop singles only have so much value and as long he insists on sacrifice bunting in front of the pitcher he is useless.
Tejada has more to contribute to this team winning, in my opinion.
ceetar
8/11/2010-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
The defense is not that big a swing.
Castillo gets on base a lot more. 50% more or so. i.e. he makes a lot less outs. That’s a lot more valuable.
he probably shouldn’t be batting 8th, and the bunting is partially on Manuel, who pretty much says thats what he wants him to do.
oleosmirf
8/11/2010-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
the point is if Tejada were to sit, he should be sitting against RHP where his BA is over .100 points lower.
youngvalerawest
8/11/2010-4:28pm at 4:28 pm (UTC -4)
The 50% comment is ridiculous given the size of Tejada’s batting sample.
If you have been watching the games, you’d see quite plainly that Tejada’s defense represents a huge upgrade.
And lastly, Manuel has flat out said at times that Castillo bunts on his own.
ceetar
8/11/2010-4:35pm at 4:35 pm (UTC -4)
yes, and he always follows up the statements with “that’s his game” and implies that he supports Castillo in doing so.
Also, Castillo is better utilized behind the pitcher, whether that’s 9th or first or second, rather than in a position where he’d be driving guys in.
the 50% comment is generous, considering Tejada struggled worse and worse as the time went on and pitchers got wise to how to pitch to him. Coupled with that he’s nowhere near perfect defensively, made a flub last night for instance, definitely supports the idea that Castillo contributes more to winning than Tejada does.
youngvalerawest
8/11/2010-4:54pm at 4:54 pm (UTC -4)
So Jerry says that Castillo bunts on his own and that it is his game and somehow you extrapolate that out to Jerry calling for Castillo’s absurd bunts?
You obviously don’tunderstsand the meaning of sample sizes if you’re merely going to project out based on the most recent trend. The purpose of a larger sample size is to account for all of the trends.
If Castillo is to have a 50% better OBP that would mean that if Tejada was terrible at .300 then Castillo would have to be at .450.
I really don’t understand where many of your arguments are derived from.
GravediggerHebner
8/11/2010-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
I apologize if I implied that you had given up that was not my intent. If there is anyone who I would say has not given up it’s you so I did not mean to suggest you had.
I can see how it looks like the team is giving up. I just don’t consider it giving up I see it more as a step forward in the direction of getting better but I understand that it can be fairly described as giving up. This is probably largely a semantics issue along the lines of one person’s retooling versus another’s rebuilding.
I agree with what I perceive to be the sentiment of your last paragraph in that if they have indeed given up that they are going about it in a half-assed fashion. Either give up all the way or keep going for it all the way but don’t platoon the perceived give up guys with the perceived go for it guys.
dirtysanchez
8/11/2010-3:41pm at 3:41 pm (UTC -4)
soooo….i guess we can put you in the non fan of frenchy squad lol
But your right, the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
Kingman 26
8/11/2010-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
Nice work Grave, Dean of Honesty!
Frenchy is a selfish, unrealistic, mediocre bee-atch, and boy, it sure took a while to see what a “great clubhouse guy” he is, huh? 2 frigin days??
Sit his sorry ass, let him pinch hit, and play guys who may have a future with the team.
Right on Dean!
njstuckintx
8/11/2010-4:02pm at 4:02 pm (UTC -4)
I hear you, but I must say, I’d prob. do the same thing if I was in his shoes.
Kingman 26
8/11/2010-4:19pm at 4:19 pm (UTC -4)
No you wouldn’t, and frankly I am disappointed in your even saying that!
I can tell that you would NEVER play frigin Mike Hessman over Ike!! Come on!!
njstuckintx
8/11/2010-4:20pm at 4:20 pm (UTC -4)
i was speaking as if i was in Frenchy’s spot.
Kingman 26
8/11/2010-4:28pm at 4:28 pm (UTC -4)
Ah, well OK that makes more sense.
To me though, Frenchy’s value largely lied in his supposed “team guy” nonsense, which was clearly blown to smithereens with this trade demand.
Now, he is just a terrible, awful offensive player whose defense is vastly overrated.
Mr North Jersey
8/11/2010-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
The Cora comment by Rosenthal where Cora says the Mets should be honest and say they are in a youth movement seems to ring true.
Enough with the We can still win it but then again maybe not shyt.
If you trying to win then dammit go for it and if not then stop f*kin around and come out and just own up and let da kids play.
dirtysanchez
8/11/2010-3:49pm at 3:49 pm (UTC -4)
Dont know why people smashed him for it…I think he is on to something…disgruntled or not, he might have some merit to what he said.
GravediggerHebner
8/11/2010-3:58pm at 3:58 pm (UTC -4)
Well my question when Cora said it still stands, and I’m not asking because I know the answer and am trying to prove a point but rather because I honestly don’t know but that question is: what organization has ever had a press conference in late July to announce to their fanbase that they’ve given up and are shooting for success 3-4 years down the line (as Cora specifically noted 2013-2014)?
I am not aware of one that has and I think it’s a tad presumptuous of Cora to suggest that Omar & Fred bring in the reporters to say “Yes we have determined that we cannot win in 2010, or 2011, or 2012, so as Mr. Cora stated we are cutting certain veteran players to free up roster space for the kids with an eye toward being relevant again sometime in the middle of the decade.”
dirtysanchez
8/11/2010-4:06pm at 4:06 pm (UTC -4)
Well…you got me there as i dont catch enough media about other organizations and their press conferences. Teams like the pirates and marlins kind of subtlety “wave the white flag” with trades and the like, I dont know if they address the media and fans about rebuilding.
ceetar
8/11/2010-4:09pm at 4:09 pm (UTC -4)
Cora is basically the same as Frenchy. He claims he can still add value, etc. He’s assuming he can play for 2-3 more years, and why wouldn’t a team like the Mets want him as the backup? The only reason would be ‘rebuilding’ for a time when he’s retired.
youngvalerawest
8/11/2010-4:14pm at 4:14 pm (UTC -4)
Or the obvious reason that he stinks.
asod75
8/11/2010-4:15pm at 4:15 pm (UTC -4)
I suppose Cora and Francoeur never take a look at their own numbers. Therein lies the problem in the lack of playing time. Frenchy is downright delusional if he thinks some team out there is going to deal for him and make him a starter. That ship has sailed….
GravediggerHebner
8/11/2010-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
“Cora is basically the same as Frenchy.”
Sad but true and sad because both guys are portrayed as such “good team guys” and yet as soon as they are faced with less playing time/removal from roster suddenly they are talking a version of trash. Disappointing.
oleosmirf
8/11/2010-4:59pm at 4:59 pm (UTC -4)
well the thing was the Alex Cora of 2010 was nowhere near the Alex Cora of 2009.
The Alex Cora of 2009 is certainly a welcome addition to the bench of any team in the MLB.
trs86
8/11/2010-4:22pm at 4:22 pm (UTC -4)
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TRS86