I could take a .5oo season, the tough losses, the lack of offense, the Phillies and Braves dominating the East, but under no circumstances, absolutely none, could I stand Oliver Perez making a start against Roy Halladay on Saturday. If he does, it basically means that the Mets are so desperate, so needy and so damn cheap that they have to start a player who has basically handcuffed this team for the entire season with his selfish attitude. I mean, here come the Phillies who trot in their high priced blockbuster off-season trade Roy Halladay and have another sitting in the dugout in Oswalt and what do the Mets do? Counter him with possibly the worst signing in 10 years. I’ll take a loss with Pat Misch on the mound-thank you.
In my eyes, it’s not a white flag. More like a Red one, signally a storm on the horizon. A storm that tells it’s fans that this is it for a while. No. Perez can’t make that start. What do the Mets think he’s going to do that he hasn’t done in the past? Let me guess…3 good innings letting up only 5 runs. Remember the last start Perez made against the Phillies at Citi? I know, I was there. He never made it out of the first inning and was pulled when he went 2-0 with Pedro Martinez at the plate.
It will turn the weekend series into a farce.
Start Misch, start Takahashi, start the batboy, hell I’ll even pitch but not Perez, he hasn’t earned the right to be on that mound. In the major leagues you pitch because you earned it, not by default. Leave him in the bull pen where he belongs.
78 comments
njstuckintx
8/13/2010-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
I read the title and thought to my self, fantastic deduction, Sherlock. But reading you piece, I do agree. Even if you know you are going into impending doom (which we aren’t, but for my analogy, i’m going there) you’d rather go in with someone who cares about the loss than one who doesn’t. (the caring is perceived, as I’ve not spent time with Ollie to discuss his hopes, cares, dreams, etc.).
Dirtysanchez
8/13/2010-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
not sure you would get much out of him. You have a better shot at what oliver perez is “thinking” if you talk to scott boras’ pr people ;p
metsfan4decades
8/13/2010-9:14am at 9:14 am (UTC -4)
If Perez makes this start, it’s not Perez that doesn’t care about the loss, it’s the FO….
njstuckintx
8/13/2010-9:17am at 9:17 am (UTC -4)
Fee Fi FO… Perez is a NO!
Dirtysanchez
8/13/2010-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
Totally agreed. I cant stand that guy and in my own opinion, the Mets would have been better served if they released oliver and just brought up pat misch in his place. Pat is getting paid peanuts to what oliver is getting for doing NOTHING. Oliver has not pitched since AUGUST 1ST….AUGUST FRIGGIN 1ST!!! I understand the whole “if we are keeping up here then lets play him” type of logic but its just not fair. Not fair to pat misch and ANYBODY at this point in the minors who would do a better job than this sorry excuse of a ball player that the SOLE reason he is on this club to begin with right now is because he makes 12 million. Im sorry, there is no PR spin in the world that would make that justifiable and positive.
Oliver Perez dared the Mets to fire him and the Mets b****ed out…simple as that.
Ceetar
8/13/2010-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
It’s not even fair to Perez to start him. Arguments about what they should/shouldn’t have done with him and if he can recoop any value either later or in the offseason/spring training aside, starting him is just stupid.
Manuel wasn’t serious, making all the thought we’ve put into this kinda silly, but it wouldn’t be out of character for him to do something like this, put in a guy in the worst possible way for him to succeed and be annoyed when he doesn’t. He hasn’t pitched. his arm strength has not been build up, and any endurance he had from starting in the minors is shot now. I can’t see how he’s stretched out enough to start, and he’s actually lost velocity as the season has progressed due to the lack of regular use and pitching. Not to mention that it’s going to be hard for him to have gotten better without pitching to batters, particularly major league ones, in the interim, which he hasn’t done.
kingman 26
8/13/2010-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
“It’s not even fair to Perez to start him.”
You seriously MUST be kidding man.
This may be the single most ridiculous comment I have seen in ages.
He is making 12 mil, refuses a clearly appropriate minor league assignment, has done nothing in over 1 and 1/2 years, and it is “not fair” to him??
Not fair to Ollie?
What’s fair to the fans who go to Citi, the fans who watch on TV and listen on radio, Ollie’s teammates, and the front office which signs over 1 million a month to him?
If Ollie had taken the minor league assignment a month or two ago, how many starts would he have under his belt in Buffalo to build arm strength? And his velocity has not been lost during the season, it was lost at the beginning of the spring, clearly either due to injuries, being out of shape, not using PEDs anymore, or a combo of these.
And it is JERRY’S fault and unfair to Ollie?
Did I misunderstand the hidden wisdom here AGAIN??
kistics
8/13/2010-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
I think he saying that he doesn’t want Ollie to start.
kingman 26
8/13/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Saying that pretty much anything is “unfair” to Ollie at this point is an absolute joke.
His being on this team at this point is unfair to the fans, his teammates, and humanity in general, but Ollie’s refusal to be in shape basically from February of 2009 right through his recent refusals to go to the minors when he makes 1 million a month completely remove what is “fair” to him from the equation.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
+9
stickguy
8/13/2010-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
well, if you want to feel even worse, he actually makes 2 mill a month. they only get paid during the season!
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
wrong again
kistics
8/13/2010-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
All right.. let’s give Ollie some break here. He’s done a lot for the team. He’s won 15 games for the Mets in ’07 and has pitched well against the Phillies, Yanks and Bravos. He’s filthy stuff when he gets it right. And he can down right dominate the opposition when his arm spot is right. So he should get another start. If not to see what’s left in him, but to up his value.
.
.
.
.
NOT!!! FRod can you beat up Ollie please? And we will forgive you…
rustyjr
8/13/2010-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
I feel if the Mets start Oliver – they will be sending a big f-u to the fans
kingman 26
8/13/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
Not nearly as big of an f-u as the one Ollie gives to the fans by refusing to go to the minors. As me and MF4D were the two fans who supported re-signing him, I take it especially hard!
Really hope you are feeling OK sir!
rustyjr
8/13/2010-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
thankyou sir – yeah i wanted The Sultan back also – damned I wish i could use the pain meds as an excuse back then lol btw u liked my Mo Vaughn tidbit?
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
if you go to the archives of Mattsblog im sure you will find the statement i made right after the news of Ollie being resigned.
something to the effect of, “this will be the worst signing in the history of the NY Mets”.
Ceetar
8/13/2010-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
hind sight’s 20/20. If he pitched like he did in 2008, it wouldn’t have been.
stickguy
8/13/2010-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
agreed. I was not in favor of bringing him back (I wanted to offer arbitration, and hope he left for picks), but saw why they did it. I never expected he could be this bad.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
there was no hindsight here. i said this the day he signed, b/c i was almost positive he was going fall apart and be this bad.
TRS86
8/13/2010-10:20am at 10:20 am (UTC -4)
It’s bad, still not the worst in the history of the Mets. Considering we are still paying Bonilla.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
but had we not signed Perez and rolled with a cheaper FA SP, things would have been completely different…
stickguy
8/13/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
well, I know we often get too emotional (or read too much into actions), but I honestly do feel that Ollie and Boras were effectively going on a slow down strike to get him released. Too bad the mets can’t find a smoking gun email so they could release him and void his contract!
and if that is true, then frankly, a completely hideous performance on Saturday would be perfectly fine by them, since it might finally force the issue. Of course, it seems counterintuitive that another team will want him if he is that bad, but I guess they figure he will get offers at minimum wage.
I am truely afraid though of the amount of booing and venom from the crowd if Ollie takes the mound. And it might just be worse when Jerry has to come out to the mound to retrieve him.
Ceetar
8/13/2010-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
The sad point is that more Mets fans would rather boo Ollie than cheer Niese.
They can’t start a guy that hasn’t been effective and hasn’t pitched in two weeks unless they’re admitting that the season is completely over. It’s not. Almost definitely, but not completely. Start him in September when it’s over and the rosters expand and we’re on the road.
Mr North Jersey
8/13/2010-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
That fans like to boo more than cheer is something that has bothered me for a long time but that is just human nature nothing we can do about it.
Ollie won’t start probably because it has gone now to a point where it is about making a point to whomever it may be that Ollie is not a consideration.
I can’t recall the last time a highly paid player just sat on the bench for long stretches the way Ollie has.
The fact that all parties seem content to keep the status qua saddens me. Ollie is just to stay on the MLB Roster and the FO is content to have him there knowing he is not being used.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
some players deserve to get booed. for example I have never been mad at David Wright until now b/c he is too damn stubborn to move closer to the plate when it is PROVEN, that it is the cause of this cold streak.
Ollie deserves to get booed for his antics, Queen James and co, should get booed, steroid users like A-Rod, disgraceful players like John Rocker, PacMan Jones and Michael Vick.
but will i boo Jason Bay, Jeff Francouer, Rod Barajas, Luis Castillo, Beltran no, b/c those players are playing with class…
kingman 26
8/13/2010-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
I completely agree with this. But please let’s not leave out Terrell Owens.
But, as for Wright, I think the beaning obviously has permanently affected his game; that’s clearly why he is standing too far from the plate. A shame.
TRS86
8/13/2010-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
So Wright deserves to be booed but Beltran does not?
GravediggerHebner
8/13/2010-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
I certainly don’t _know_ this and can’t prove it but I think sports fans “liking to boo more than cheer” is the result of much deeper psychological issues that have very little to do with the player and much more to do with the fan’s daily life and their lack of satisfaction with aspects of it which they then feel they are justified in unleashing on people they consider to be overpaid vis a vis their performance because they are on display on a stage for our entertainment and amusement.
kingman 26
8/13/2010-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
+ Infinity. Absolutely great remark.
I really never even think of booing except for blatant lack of hustle or recidivist criminality like PacMan or obnoxious me-first self-promotion in a team game like TO.
TRS86
8/13/2010-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
I get booed some, a coach does. However, just thinking about getting booed in my actual day job and having no control of it…
It’s part of why they get paid so much for sure.
kingman 26
8/13/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
I certainly would rather cheer Pat Misch than boo Ollie or boo any Met.
The sad point is that, in today’s society and sports world, that someone could actually feel that a player making 12 mil a year, who has been useless and out of shape for nearly two years, and who refuses to do anything to better himself, is being treated “unfairly”.
THAT is truly pathetic and ridiculous.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
no you start someone like Gee, to see if the kid can have any success against MLB hitters.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
actually here was my post on mattsblog, “this is a sad day for the Mets. We will all be regretting this signing down the road”…
kistics
8/13/2010-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
To be fair, a lot of us (including myself) didn’t get on Omar for resigning Ollie. You were right that it was a terrible signing, but at that time, I thought it was a reasonable signing and this is why.
I did not expect Ollie to be a complete bust at that time. I believed that he had the talent to be a 13-15 game winner after seeing him in ’07 and ’08 season. Being a 26 year old lefty that had very good stuff was a good enough reason to give him $36M. I thought that he was going to have couple good starts and couple bad starts. But I never imagined to be like this bad.
njstuckintx
8/13/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
I did think they bid against themselves, but correct, there wasn’t much out there at the time. I almost felt like they overvalued him due to the fact he was a Met, kind of what we do to the Minor Mets.
kistics
8/13/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
I think Lowe was the best SP available at the time. And the Mets did offer him the same contract to him. Obviously Lowe has pitched much better than Ollie, but I really thought Ollie’s value was about the same as Lowe’s at that time.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
after the performance he showed us in september, he should not even have been considered.
blowing a 5-1 lead by walking the world in the last week of the season is really just inexcusable
kistics
8/13/2010-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
I agree and you were right. However, we’ve also seen couple game stretches in ’08 season where he was very good.
Looking back at ’08. His numbers for Jul – Sep, he had 3.56 ERA, opposing teams hit .226/.319/.365. He had about 2-1 K to BB ratio which isn’t too bad.
So again, looking back it was a terrible signing. But at that time, I thought it was a reasonable signing.
Ceetar
8/13/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Dessens hasn’t pitched since 8/1 either.
njstuckintx
8/13/2010-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
Which is a worse BP disaster? The one in the gulf or the one in NY?
GravediggerHebner
8/13/2010-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Ho ho! I see what you did there!
njstuckintx
8/13/2010-11:17am at 11:17 am (UTC -4)
All i’m saying is the clean up is going very well in the gulf. I see nice white sandy beaches in the nearer future than stocked pen in NY.
Maybe I exaggerate. Maybe I don’t. Tune in next time for the thrilling conclusion of “2010 Mets… Less the Optimal”.
kingman 26
8/13/2010-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
LOL!!
rustyjr
8/13/2010-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
we have a winner
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
political correct police might come after you…
njstuckintx
8/13/2010-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
They’re busy with Incarcerated-Rod.
Thank you folks, try the veal. And back to work for me!
metsfan4decades
8/13/2010-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Well played!
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
wow i got blasted on Mattsblog.
i was crazy for thinking Ollie would have an ERA over 5, called an idiot b/c i said it was possible that Pelf would have a good year and was ridiculous for thinking that we werent as good as the phillies…
kingman 26
8/13/2010-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
Getting blasted over there is truly a sign of being smart and having a lot of baseball knowledge!
Congrats!
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
well if that was sarcasm, many of those same ppl who blasted me there are regular contributors here.
kingman 26
8/13/2010-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
I meant that in 100% seriousness—get blasted over there these days is a sign of being smart. That is most definitely how I meant it.
And again, you were right about Ollie, I was 100% wrong, as I probably argued with you about it two years ago.
I can willingly admit being wrong.
kistics
8/13/2010-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
So Pelf would not have a good ear and the Mets are as good as the Phillies?
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
well in 2009, Pelf had a bad year and the Phillies were a heck of a lot better…
TRS86
8/13/2010-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
Oleo, it’s not hard to blast you just like it is not hard to blast Ceetar, me or many other people on here who take things to extreme one way or another. Most of the commenters on here in fact set themselves up to be blasted because we are so demonstrative in our opinions. Not a big deal.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
the thing i’ve noticed is everyone just assumes the players who were good the year before cant just as easily be bad the next season.
to me Jon Niese should not be considered a lock to be just as good or better next season although, unlike Pelfrey, I expect Niese to have a much smaller drop off…
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
and before you your typical “you can say that about anyone” i am talking about players who are not proven major league arms.
3/4 of a season doesnt prove that you will be this good for years to come. It means he is capable of it but we all know in baseball, “you never know”
so when the Mets are building a pitching staff next season I hope they take the “unprovenness” of Niese and Dickey into account when looking for another SP
TRS86
8/13/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
While yes they should take that into account they still have to approach it as only one hole and then depth in AAA. Remember your other goals for the off-season too. While they have money, it’s not like they have “enough”.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
well it depends on whether they consider themselves legitimate contenders or not.
i would rather see them go with kids then overpay a veteran b/c of this need to be “competitive”
TRS86
8/13/2010-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
I sure hope they view themselves as legitimate contenders.
johan4cy
8/13/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Ollie should get one more start. He was a big investment and should get another chance to redeem himself before a decision is made. Actually, I think he should stay in the rotation the entire month of September because it’s unfair to only give someone one game to show their worthiness. Ollie used to be a good pitcher, and he deserves the chance to revitalize his career.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
showcasing Ollie or giving Gee a chance. what is better for the future of the Mets.
even if Ollie pitches well, no team is going to pay him more than the average minor league free agent. the only thing that would come of Ollie pitching in Sept, would be instead of getting released, he gets one last shot to prove himself in ST…
johan4cy
8/13/2010-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
It isn’t showcasing him, it would be giving him a regular spot in the rotation in hopes that he can prove he is a good pitcher, regain confidence, and hopefully become a part of next years rotation (only if he does good, though)
TRS86
8/13/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
Johan with uhh… Johan, Pelfrey, Niese, and perhaps Dickey almost locks for next year don’t you think regardless of the next 1.5 months it’s too dangerous to consider Ollie for next year?
johan4cy
8/13/2010-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
If there are no signings and Ollie looks good to end this year and in ST next season, he WILL be in the rotation. There is no better option.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-2:02pm at 2:02 pm (UTC -4)
nelson figueroa, pat misch, dillon gee, anyone on the FA list is a better option than Awful Ollie
TRS86
8/13/2010-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
Why would there be no signings? Omar always spends money on a top FA and pitching will be where that is this year.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
hopefully he goes the trade route and gets Garza/Shields who will 100% be available
TRS86
8/13/2010-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
Pardon me but why would they be 100% available?
TRS86
8/13/2010-2:25pm at 2:25 pm (UTC -4)
Garza it would take a LOT to get. He’s young and under control until 2014. No way.
Shields, I am just not sure about. Stats on the increase instead of decrease. Almost at a 5.00 ERA this year.
oleosmirf
8/13/2010-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
Ollie can pitch gem after gem in September and I still dont want him back b/c inevitably he will crumble…
njstuckintx
8/13/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
I want to blast you for this comment, yet I know there is some validity to it.
Well, everything except the deserves the chance to revitalize his career. He should have the chance to do what he’s paid for up until a point. But at no point does he “deserve” to have that shot to revitalize his career. He can do that when he signs with the Royals or is back with the Pirates in 2012.
GravediggerHebner
8/13/2010-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
Here’s a hopefully pleasant distraction from discussing the merits of an Ollie start:
http://bitURL.net/agh3
TRS86
8/13/2010-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
LOL, that’s not fair. Some of those guys were just cursed with being ugly. They could not help it.
njstuckintx
8/13/2010-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
All I see when I see your avatar come after Graves is either you are related or Grave spent some time as the Milkman in your neighborhood…
TRS86
8/13/2010-12:03pm at 12:03 pm (UTC -4)
LOL< yeah a while back NJ made all the authors avatars. I just now changed mine.
GravediggerHebner
8/13/2010-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Well Eddie C on the FAN just said that “no one really took that seriously” when Jerry suggested Ollie might start and that he believes it will be Misch.
TRS86
8/13/2010-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
At this point with Jerry in the media he has them guessing.