Jerry Manuel is sadly still publicly saying that he is trying to compete to win a playoff spot. This while unrealistic is something he must do as part of his job requirement which may be why you had a Tejada and a FMart losing time to a Castillo & Francouer. Now with Barajas up if he can recapture his hitting from earlier in the season he will also get more playing time rather than Thole.
All this is the Front Office’s fault because if they admit to what everyone already knows and acted accordingly the team would be that much better for it. This is how I would do it.
1. The Mets hold a press conference to announce that Jerry Manuel and all the coaches will finish the season but at the end of the season their contracts will not be renewed.At the end of the season they will do a full review and determine what if any other changes need to be made.
2. The Mets say that they will use the rest of the season to evaluate some of the prospects but will not do so at the expense of some of their veterans. (Making sure that Beltran continues to rehab by doing this)
3. The Mets then announce that some roster changes are to come between now and Sept 1st. The Mets then look to see if their is any interest in Francoeur and if they can move him do so and if not release him. They do the same with Oliver Perez and his $12M that is due him next season.
4. The Mets bring up FMart, Gee, Mejia, Nieuinwuis with Mejia to be the 5th starter the rest of the way to continue his developmenet and Gee in the pen to give hima look see. Nieunwuis should come up as a reward for the season he had
and get a taste of what MLB is like.
5. The Mets in an attempt to show their fan-base that have stood by them coming out to games throughout the season run new promotions that slash ticket prices.
At least that’s how I would do it.
47 comments
metsfan4decades
8/20/2010-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
No way are the Mets going to make any kind of announcement about cleaning house until AFTER said dust bunnies have been fired or reassigned. Once you personally tell an employee they’re losing their job – whether it’s b/c of job performance, downsizing, reorganization, etc. – there is no incentive whatsoever by those being let go to give one fig about what’s going on around them.
You could potentially be causing more harm then doing good. The only way to do what you’re suggesting is to let them all go now. Then make the public announcement to the fan base about your commitment to putting a winning team on the field…..
Mr North Jersey
8/20/2010-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
actually 4d in regards to your comment about not giving 1 fig I disagree and here is why.
These guys are pro’s 1st and foremost so the idea that they would neglect their responsibilities I find hard to believe but in any event even if that is the case they can be dismissed immediately if they do neglect living up o their contractual obligation.
metsfan4decades
8/20/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
Well…I will say that’s just my opinion, based on experience. Even if you’re a top notch professional, it’s just human nature to take that personally. And when that happens, it does color every decision you make from the time you get the notice, until your last day of work…..
Mr North Jersey
8/20/2010-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
Well I can’t say that it won’t happen but If memory serves me correct the idea of coaches being told that they will not be coming back the following season is something that has happened and I can’t recall reading about coaches just neglecting their duties the rest of the way.
Yet I will admit that the possibility does exist. It;s just I would not expect it.
wannybackstra
8/20/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
agree with m4d. if i’m canned i could probably care less to hang let with ruben tejada to work on his swing.
Mr North Jersey
8/20/2010-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
I guess I hold MLB Coaches to a higher standard than most
oleosmirf
8/20/2010-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
Kirk is not coming up this season. He needs to conquer AAA first.
Ollie they cant release now b/c they are going to try to trade him in the offseason, same with Castillo.
njstuckintx
8/20/2010-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Well, how would you do it if you could?
Mr North Jersey
8/20/2010-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
Well in your world they will trade him during off season.
In my world if they wanted to trade him he’d be gone already the fact that he is here means they the Mets trade demands are too high and no one will bite so I would better cut off the cancer he has been in 2010 late than never.
Mr North Jersey
8/20/2010-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
As far as Kirk him being at AAA is a big thing for him and him coming up would be to give him a taste of what can be as he heads into off season. Hopefully keeping him focused during off season of how close he is as he most likely plays in the AFL with hopes of having a shot at making the team next season.
wannybackstra
8/20/2010-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Kirk is not nearly ready for MLB pitching. He still whiffs entirely too much.
In any event, it is highly unlikely he begins the season with the mets next year so why waste an option year and arbitration service time?
Mr North Jersey
8/20/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Again this is a reward for his overall season and a tease for what can be. This is not because he is ready.
That is how I would do it because I would not be worried about starting the clock.
stickguy
8/20/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
plus he does not have to go on to the 40 man.
I am fuzzy though. does a september call up burn an option year? I know it is not long enough to count as a service year.
GravediggerHebner
8/20/2010-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
I am not 100% sure on this so don’t bank it but my understanding is the options only start being counted when people are sent back down.
So if hypothetically the Mets put Kirk on the 40 man roster and called him up to the majors no use of options has occurred. If then in spring training he doesn’t make the team and is sent to AAA that would be the first option used on him thus his option years would start at that point.
rustyjr
8/20/2010-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
btw guys I made Matts top ten tweets from last night – go me lol
metsfan4decades
8/20/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Ha! Rusty hanging with MC…
rustyjr
8/20/2010-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
lol oh yeah
GravediggerHebner
8/20/2010-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
Heard about that. Kiss enough bum and eventually your nose gets brown.
rustyjr
8/20/2010-1:07pm at 1:07 pm (UTC -4)
bastard !! will somebody please get the mobile site back up god dammit !!! and at least I commented when i was in rhode island what no wifi in nh ya wuss !!! lol
GravediggerHebner
8/20/2010-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
I am not equipped to take the internet with me wherever I go. Plus I always enjoy a little forced time away from it which helps keep my carpal tunnel and blindness in check.
rustyjr
8/20/2010-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
btw anyone else having problems with the site on their iphone droid etc?
stickguy
8/20/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
have not tried it on my Droid (not since moving to the new site). The old one worked OK.
rustyjr
8/20/2010-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
the old site works on mine too – i wonder if the new plug ins is affecting the smartphnes
stickguy
8/20/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
a nice concept. Very pollyanna-ish, but sounds good.
I agree with MF. If you are telling them they officially won’t be back, they need to already be out the door when the announcement is made. At that point, anyone floating around the organization can step in to finish out the year.
And Kirk should not be up. He has not yet dominated AAA, and more importantly, does NOT have to be added to the 40 man this off season for rule 5 protection. Duda, bring him up since he has to be added, and he had a better year than Kirk anyway (with the bat).
#5 makes perfect sense I guess.
On 9/1, letting frenchy and Barajas go (I think they might actually be able to trade Rod) is fine, since neither one is likely to get offered a contract anyway.
But, Ollie is going nowhere (neither is Castillo). They still hope to trade him in the off season. And yes, it is much easier to move a project guy like that in the off season, as opposed to mid-season, when teams are looking to pick up immediate impact.
wannybackstra
8/20/2010-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
Good point on the 40 man spot. They’ll need a few of those free for Rule V purposes and for other Sep. callups.
wannybackstra
8/20/2010-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
also, i don’t see the benefit to putting kirk in a position to fail. I think the risk outweighs the reward.
kirk has already received a promotion this year, and though his power and average were excellent at AA it was still arguable whether he was even ready for the AAA promotion. His OBP was only .337 and he walked 30x compared to 93 whiffs in 394 at bats. He’ll get eaten alive by MLB pitchers right now.
njstuckintx
8/20/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
unfortunately, it’s not the first time (or last) they’ve done something similar in regards to rushing.
rustyjr
8/20/2010-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
see strawberry generation k , greg jeffries, list is endless
wannybackstra
8/20/2010-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
they’ve been doing it with tejada all year, which is worse ever since the more experienced and polished justin turner has been around.
njstuckintx
8/20/2010-1:15pm at 1:15 pm (UTC -4)
If they don’t think Turner will amount to much, wouldn’t it be better to have showcased him a little and try to flip him for something? Houston comes to mind with their lack of any middle infielders in their minor league system.
But, it is our New York Debacles… Like the stupid boyfriend who keeps taking back a cheating girl friend, we keep subjecting ourselves to pain time after time.
wannybackstra
8/20/2010-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
and, of course, mejia…
rustyjr
8/20/2010-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
par for the course
GravediggerHebner
8/20/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
1. I see you’ve already offered your defense of this point and I can see where it’s coming from. My fear in doing this would be that it would completely eliminate any reason to listen to Manuel in any context. Now that’s not necessarily a bad thing but it does leave the hypothetical ship sailing at sea for 6 weeks without a captain and that sounds like an environment ripe for mutiny. I’d rather skip the pre-announced firing if I were in charge I would prefer to either do it now (less preferred by me) or do the mass house cleaning minutes after the last out of the last game (more preferred by me).
2. I don’t follow this one. How are both goals met they seem contrary to me?
3. I wouldn’t make another such blanket announcement I would just do it. For example I would either trade Francoeur & Barajas or if no reasonable trade (just getting some non-prospect back is fine with me) I would release them because they are not in my plans for the future and their contracts are expiring.
4. Of all the guys you mention I would only bring up those already on the 40 man roster or those who have to be put on the 40 man roster to be protected from the rule-5 draft. This does not include Capt. Kirk. He does not have enough service time to require his protection yet and I would hope I could use that roster spot on someone else useful but if not I am open to being convinced to promote Kirk while hoping not to.
5. There would be an inevitable backlash from season ticket holders and others who have already purchased tickets so while I would lower ticket prices I would make it effective in 2011. In the interim I would lower the prices of certain popular concession items such as beer and hot dogs.
That’s my 2 cents.
Mr North Jersey
8/20/2010-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
Duly noted but in regards to ticket prices they have already slashed prices this year from what I understand so however they dealt with season ticket holders then is how they should deal with them now.
Yes i understand the Mets don’t have to put him on the 40 but I would still bring him up Sept 1st.
Yes actions speak louder than words and with the Mets their talk is cheap of late. That is why I would announce it and then follow thru by actually doing it showing the fans that they can start to believe that the Mets will do what they say they will do.
The goal of playing prospects but not at the expense of veterans is tricky so they cant just abide by 1 doctrine Beltran has to play to get better if he is on the big club so him losing time for FMart let’s say just can’t be.
As far as the rutterless ship I believe you already have that if anything this relaxes everyone and puts the focus on what it should be play well and hope to impress for a new team in 2011 or the same team.
njstuckintx
8/20/2010-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
2 cents for beer and hot dogs?!?! I’m in!
Good points all around. I kind of hope that no front office mandates happen. They are so reactionary to perceived media criticisms, their inevitable response always ends up looking contrived and seems like the only reason they are making said move is to placate the unruly masses.
rustyjr
8/20/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
yeah the mets took a lot of grief when they did that to art howe in ’04
GravediggerHebner
8/20/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
You know the axiom “a team meeting is only as good as your next day’s starting pitcher” well in that vein I find it interesting that the Pirates team president calls his team’s season “embarrassing” the day the Mets arrive in town.
http://twitter.com/Dejan_Kovacevic/status/21675022774
oleosmirf
8/20/2010-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
he just wants to send a wake up call to his team as he knows this is probably their best chance to win or even sweep a series…
GravediggerHebner
8/20/2010-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
On that note we get on Omar & the Wilpons a lot for going on the FAN and saying a bunch of things they then didn’t do.
Well on Feb. 23, 2010 the Pirates president said: “Don’t let people tell you that ‘the Pirates have a great future, but it’s not today.’ Today is our future. 2010 is the beginning of the next dynasty of the Pirates for me.”
oleosmirf
8/20/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
the Mets don’t have to “announce” anything. all that is necessary is for the Mets to send out the possible lineup that features players who are or might be important pieces of the 2011 NY Mets and beyond.
i know Francouer and Barajas are 2 of the most popular guys in the clubhouse but considering how bad they have been since memorial day and that both players will not be returning it doesnt make sense to play them more than once a week.
wannybackstra
8/20/2010-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
After seeing Brad Hawpe get released by the Rox, it is sickening to think that Francoeur and Barajas can not be released.
Hawpe was/is a far better player than either — an all-star last year even — and he was deemed expendable because he wasn’t in the plans for next year and was having a lousy season. Sound familiar?
oleosmirf
8/20/2010-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
problem is David will have a sad face if his friends get released but he’s a big boy now, he’ll get over it…
njstuckintx
8/20/2010-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. Indubitably.
kingman 26
8/20/2010-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
With the possible exception of bringing up Captain Kirk and Mejia before their seasons are over in the minors, I pretty much agree with all of this.
The season is totally lost, and who the hell cares what Jerry and the coaches think. They are all unquestionably gone. (For those who want to retain Jauss or Hale, let’s hear a good argument why.)
Beltran should be playing himself into shape. Francoeur, Castillo, and Barajas should be released today if they cannot be traded. OK, as we are 12 days from Sept 1st roster expansions, and the season is lost, keep Ollie and try to move him in the offseason if you cannot stomach eating 12 million for this absolutely piece of trash who has now stolen 24 million. There is zero rationale for Frenchy, Slappy, or Barajas to be getting any more playing time.
FMart was brought up and now sent down for two weeks? Idiocy worthy of derision.
The Wilpons have to play to the fans at this point—does anyone think another WFAN speech will be taken even remotely seriously?
Mr N, you are right on the money here. It is time to plan for 2011, and the time to start doing it was about two weeks ago.
oleosmirf
8/20/2010-3:06pm at 3:06 pm (UTC -4)
i actually think Hale should stay. Jauss, is Manuel’s guy from way back so he’s obviously gone but Hale has done a good job as 3B coach.
how many times did we complain about Razor Shines as 3B coach last season? now compare that with Chip/
stickguy
8/20/2010-3:10pm at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
true, you hardly ever hear about Hale doing anything wrong. 3B coaches are supposed to be like that (you should forget they are even over there).
but, he will be collateral damage in the purge. Take all the coaches, and let the new manager have a totally fresh staff.
njstuckintx
8/20/2010-3:18pm at 3:18 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. Having the human windmill in Shines at 3B was a mess. Not noticing Hale is a good thing.