With the news yesterday of Washington Nationals rookie pitching phenom, Steven Strassburg might have to under go Tommy John surgery. I began thinking about all the recent reports of shutting our own pitching sensation, Jonathan Niese down, or at least limiting his innings.
Dan Warthern wants Niese to take the rest of the season off, especially since Jonathan has never pitched this many innings before, and he is coming off a a serious injury that cut his season short last year. Jerry Manuel disagrees. He feels that Niese should finish the year and the increase of innings should not affect him physically . I feel that Jerry at this point in time is just so desperate to keep his job that he wants Niese – who it seems puts out quality outings after quality outings,to continue pitching, just to save his own skin.
If Niese were to develop arm or shoulder problems, he would join the long list of Mets pitching prospects that were overused until their arms failed them. Look at this list
Bill Pulispher
Jason Isringhausen – yes he found success later on in his career but not with the Mets.
Paul Wilson
Tim Leary – He was once supposed to be the Mets “saviour” back in ’81 and was dubbed “Tim Terrific” by the media before blowing out his shoulder on opening day at Wrigley Field in the extreme cold by then manager Joe Torre.
Look even though we are on the fringes of wild card contention, we have to face the facts that it is a Walter Mittyesque daydream on the part of Omar, Jerry and ownership. I say shut him down – or at least let him pitch the eighth inning, then bring up Jennry Mejia or Dillon Gee to take his place in the rotation. You can put Niese in the bullpen and use him when a set up man is needed. Then let him play winter ball to get strong again. There is no need to ruin a potential middle of the rotation starter like him !
” Be careful with Him !”
And with that said…… HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!
Celebrating birthdays today are :
Back up shortstop from the ’65 team, Billy Cowan is 72 (1938) .
One of the worst Mets pitchers of the early ’80′s, Mike Torrez (is 64 1946) . Yes he was great when he pitched for the Red Sox, but he was extremely wild and ineffective by the time he became a Met.
One of the best bench players this organization has ever seen, Joel Youngblood is 59 (1951) .
New York Mets traded outfield prospects,Gerald Young and Manny Lee , along with minor league pitcher,Mitch Cook to the Houston Astros for third baseman,Ray Knight on August 28, 1984. This was a stroke of genious by then G.M, Frank Cashen, because Knight provided a sense of passion and guts that fit right in with the rest of the core of those mis ’80′s Mets teams.
New York Mets traded pitcher,Alejandro Peña to the Atlanta Braves for pitcher,Tony Castillo and outfielder,Joe Roa on August 28, 1991.
And Mo Vaughn says “Thank goodness there is only 4 1/2 weeks left until the Jerry Mnauel era comes to a close !!!”
7 comments
hazmet
8/28/2010-8:18am at 8:18 am (UTC -4)
Good morning Rusty and all fans of the blue & orange. Morning check list: Power on laptop, quench thirst to verify we’re still in the fringe at 7 games back instead of 6.5, curse Phillies, check out Rusty’s morning post.
I wasn’t buying into limiting Niese on pitch count until this last performance where it just looked like he hit the wall after 80-85 pitches after a tremendous start to the game. I was having Koosman flashbacks at the start, then wow hello wall. It was unreal to watch, and Ronnie in the booth was pinging his mechanics as unravelling so yes I’m now in the camp of limited use. 85-90 pitches and see ya Jon you’re out of the game. Revisit this in 2 weeks and as I don’t anticipate a miracle move up then shut him down. So I guess that’s like 2 more starts. Let Mejia start having a taste in Misch’s spot and then pencil in Gee for Niese’s last few. If Warthen is saying shut him down against Jerry’s wishes kudo’s to Warthen. Dan has done quite alright this year with this crew, better than alright vs. what I thought he was going to do.
Well, 306 innings left of Jerry Ball. Here’s to hoping he doesn’t ruin any of our valued arms, Niese, Mejia, even an improving Gee for that matter.
stickguy
8/28/2010-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
I agree that if it appears he his getting tired after a long season, they can give him an early vacation. A couple of more starts, with an early hook (low pitch count), and then let one of the call ups get a shot.
probably want to stop riding pelfrey like a mule too. Don’t pull him from the rotation, but also might not want to have him setting career highs in PC at this point, jerry.
Mets are going to need both of these guys strong next year for the playoffs!
Ceetar
8/28/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
Niese threw 178 innings in 2008. last year was the hamstring injury, 120 innings. No reason he can’t go to 180 again and be unrestricted next year. He’s at 143. 6 starts of 6 innings would put him at 180. No big deal. Don’t let him throw 140 pitches in any start, but for the most part, nothing to worry about.
The thing is, there is NO formula. Some guys are quick recoverers, some guys arms take a little longer to bounce back. Pelfrey has repeatedly stated that his arm usually feels pretty good. Therefore I don’t feel any differently about him throwing 123 pitches than 103. He probably should throw 123 more regularly. He also seems to be a solid candidate for short rest were the Mets ever to play some ‘must win’ type games again.
metsfan4decades
8/28/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
If Niese’s injury last year was related to his arm in any way, then I would say shutting him down might be warranted. It wasn’t his arm though.
I’d have no problem limiting his innings or PC from here on out. I don’t think he needs to be almost completely shut down, or regulated to an inning or two from the BP.
Skip a start or two, pull him after 80 or so pitches – that seems like a reasonable plan.
As far as Pelfrey….I don’t think he warrants the same precaution. However, no reason to keep him in the game deep, with a large PC, especially if it’s a lopsided game. It’s not like really still in this race….
stickguy
8/28/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
this, I found to be funny. The cards are great, and I love his choices for coaches. and no sabermetrics (a good thing, considering where it came from)
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/8/27/1655080/how-to-make-the-2011-mets-a-world
GravediggerHebner
8/28/2010-4:22pm at 4:22 pm (UTC -4)
Ceetar echoed my thoughts on Niese. He’s already pitched more innings than he has now and I don’t worry about the “Verducci Effect” with him.
I have more of a belief in the idea that pitch 120 is more stressful than pitch 119 which is more stressful than pitch 118 and so on than I do that inning 190 is more stressful than 180 which is more stressful than 170 and so on (I think the terms are “linear” or “exponential” and I lean toward exponential fear with pitch counts more than with inning counts).
wannybackstra
8/28/2010-5:02pm at 5:02 pm (UTC -4)
Even though Niese hadn’t been touched much in the early part of the game, I didn’t think he had his best stuff. It was clear to everyone but the manager in the 7th inning that he wasn’t hitting his spots at all. But the manager hung him out to dry.
I don’t attribute his failures in this game to being worn out. I attribute them to not having his good stuff — a bad day made worse by a manager who was not willing to quit while he was ahead.
It’s very odd how long Manuel will now let his starters go — whereas earlier he would yank them too early (especially Pelfrey). At the same time, he demands perfection from his relievers and will remove them after one hitter or if they don’t throw with the hand on the same side of the batter’s box that the hitter is occupying.