STATEMENT FROM THE METS REGARDING PITCHER JOHAN SANTANA
“An MRI at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan yesterday revealed that Mets pitcher Johan Santana has suffered a tear of the anterior capsule of the left shoulder. The injury is located on the front and bottom part of the shoulder close to the pectoral muscle, resulting in discomfort radiating through both the pectoral muscle and shoulder. Santana will undergo surgery in the near future and we anticipate he will be able to resume throwing in the spring.”
Disappointing. Three surgeries in three years, and even though he hasn’t missed any important games, it’s discouraging that he’ll have that much wear and tear on his body. This will probably alter, if only slightly, what the Mets do with the rotation this offseason.
74 comments
Ceetar
9/10/2010-3:58pm at 3:58 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not sure we need to tweet out every wordpress tag as a twitter hashtag, but I could be wrong..
metsfan4decades
9/10/2010-4:00pm at 4:00 pm (UTC -4)
wow – maybe Jerry did know what he was talking about during that post game show when he said ‘shoulder’ but everyone else said ‘chest’….
Ceetar
9/10/2010-4:03pm at 4:03 pm (UTC -4)
Well, the pain/discomfort was in the pecs, caused by the broken capsule in the lower shoulder area. Which means he felt it when he used his shoulder, which is probably what Manuel was getting at. Using his shoulder caused pain in his chest. *shrug* it’s all semantics. get well soon.
tkfj2
9/10/2010-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
I hate to say it, but Santana might be a shell of himself by the time he gets back from this one, and that contract is going to look mighty bad.
He already lost velocity after one surgery, is he going to be tossing 85 mph FB after this one?
metsfan4decades
9/10/2010-4:06pm at 4:06 pm (UTC -4)
This is disappointing news. Not for this month as this season is lost anyway. It’s disappointing going forward.
I like Santana, I think he’s a real competitor. But how many surgeries can one have year after year and realistically expect to come back as strong as before? The slow start this year was perhaps a result of the surgery to remove bone chips from his elbow. One year older, another surgery…could very well be another half season till that arm/shoulder is strong again.
IMO, this increases the need for the addition of a solid SP from outside the organization.
Dirtysanchez
9/10/2010-4:22pm at 4:22 pm (UTC -4)
rotation is already full….highly doubt they pick up any substancial improvement over the offseason regarding SP
metsfan4decades
9/10/2010-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
There’s a difference between full and good….
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-4:15pm at 4:15 pm (UTC -4)
Good thing Mets were not playing meaningful games in September or else Santana would of pitched this past Tuesday and really make the Mets look idiotic at how they evaluate injuries.
“The Mets then skipped his turn in the rotation on Tuesday, in Washington, but described the move as a precautionary measure and inferred that Santana would have pitched had the team been playing an important game.”
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/10/mets-santana-to-have-surgery-on-shoulder/?src=twt&twt=nytimesbats
stickguy
9/10/2010-4:18pm at 4:18 pm (UTC -4)
don’t be too harsh. That really means, he would have been scheduled and tried to pitch. And when he was having pain/problems trying to warm up, ollie would have started instead!
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-4:19pm at 4:19 pm (UTC -4)
ahhh….
Ceetar
9/10/2010-4:20pm at 4:20 pm (UTC -4)
Does it? I don’t think you can tear the capsule more. Not sure pitching in that condition is actually detrimental. Furthermore, it’s impossible to know what they would’ve done unless they were actually in that situation. Can’t see through the spin.
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
Truth I was just throwing a jab at the Mets. Truth is who knows how it would of went down. I just am so disgusted with how what is day to day becomes season ending surgery that I couldnt resist throwing a dig at Mets.
Now back to the reality that is this sad Drama that has unfolded.
oleosmirf
9/10/2010-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
fantastic news
GravediggerHebner
9/10/2010-4:20pm at 4:20 pm (UTC -4)
Does this mean that Jerry Manuel actually pointed at the right body part?
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
A broken clock is right twice a day I hear. So therefore Jerry is a clock?
njstuckintx
9/10/2010-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
The importance of getting a mid-rotation pitcher at the least just went up a few notches on the importance scale. Also shows (in hindsight) that making a play for oswalt would have been the right thing to do… for the future.
metsfan4decades
9/10/2010-4:37pm at 4:37 pm (UTC -4)
Except Oswalt has his own neck/injury problems.
njstuckintx
9/10/2010-4:45pm at 4:45 pm (UTC -4)
True, but his salary is not 20 mil + and for multiple years. His was/is a reasonable 2+ years.
It’s all hindsight, I know. I just thought they should have gotten him in the first place and now the circumstances show the need all the more. Hindsight, etc. etc. Just hashing up old arguments for my own “i told you so”.
GravediggerHebner
9/10/2010-4:23pm at 4:23 pm (UTC -4)
More evidence that drafting/signing and developing pitchers is very important and should be a priority. Good pitching on the free agent market is always overvalued. Having it on hand starting when it’s young and (relatively) cheap is the best way to ensure depth and quality, not signing it for $200 million from somewhere else when it’s already got 2000 innings on the odometer.
njstuckintx
9/10/2010-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
see brown, kevin & hampton, mike
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
Had we won back in 2008 or 2009 this news would of still hurt but at least the memory of having won would help get us through it.
saltygary
9/10/2010-4:25pm at 4:25 pm (UTC -4)
Only 4 years and 100m left on that contract.
saltygary
9/10/2010-4:28pm at 4:28 pm (UTC -4)
Actually 75m with a 5.5 buyout but still a crap load of money. @ season ending surgeries and he was already regressing. Is he going to be the next Beltran on the team?
oleosmirf
9/10/2010-4:26pm at 4:26 pm (UTC -4)
i wonder how long he had this bad shoulder for. maybe that was the cause of the MPH drop, not the elbow
stickguy
9/10/2010-4:31pm at 4:31 pm (UTC -4)
First thing that came to mind was, does anyone still think 5/100,000,000 for Lee is a good idea?
and like MF< I am worried about him being Jamie Moyer when he gets back. shoulder surgery often does not end well.
but, bright side, although he had an operation 3 straight years, it was to different body parts.
and yes, this means the need for a solid, legit mid-rotation (say, Lilly level) SP in the off season is even more of a must (although it was already important to do).
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-4:36pm at 4:36 pm (UTC -4)
Santana On Opening Day: “I don’t know I don’t really know. This is something that I was told is going to take time. I just have to wait and see.”
Ceetar
9/10/2010-4:38pm at 4:38 pm (UTC -4)
Asking the patient, prior to the surgery even, about recovery time is just pointless.
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-4:39pm at 4:39 pm (UTC -4)
Good Point.
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-4:41pm at 4:41 pm (UTC -4)
Even if he says he expects to pitch on Opening Day. It means very little until he actually does it cause who knows what setbacks await him.
metsfan4decades
9/10/2010-4:40pm at 4:40 pm (UTC -4)
O.K., listening to this press conference going on and I’m just getting more and more depressed.
This just doesn’t sound good. Comments:
- Same injury Posada had and he’s back playing
- Same injury Kelvin Escobar had only his wasn’t diagnosed properly. Once it was, they fixed it and he feels ‘fine’.
Uh, oh…..
Ceetar
9/10/2010-4:47pm at 4:47 pm (UTC -4)
Prior had it too.
stickguy
9/10/2010-4:54pm at 4:54 pm (UTC -4)
well, Prior pretty much had everything.
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-4:54pm at 4:54 pm (UTC -4)
LMAO
metsfan4decades
9/10/2010-4:45pm at 4:45 pm (UTC -4)
Asking Omar what this does for his off season rotation plans.
‘When you don’t have your ace possibly to start the season, you have to start looking at trades, FA. Something I didn’t expect to have to fill (Johan’s position).’
Omar commenting he thinks the Mets have got their money’s worth and feels they will from Johan going forward. This is a year he easily could have won about 17 games.
Omar saying the prognosis, based on the doctor’s is ‘good’.
Asking Jerry who fills the void. Will have some discussions though on his innings limit but Gee is definitely a candidate at this point to fill Johan’s position.
njstuckintx
9/10/2010-4:48pm at 4:48 pm (UTC -4)
Man oh man. for next year, would Niese be your #1? Cause Pelf is closer to #5 than #1 in my mind.
I’ll breath a little and realize there is a lot of time to sort this stuff out, but man, if this isn’t a donkey kick to the sack, i’m not sure what is.
Ceetar
9/10/2010-4:48pm at 4:48 pm (UTC -4)
Ollie.
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-4:52pm at 4:52 pm (UTC -4)
shut your keyboard
metsfan4decades
9/10/2010-4:52pm at 4:52 pm (UTC -4)
Ha! funny guy.
But you know….knowing the Mets, I wouldn’t past them to see what Ollie brings to the table in ST now.
IMO, they’d better not be waiting until ST to see where any of our pitchers stand such as Johan and Ollie.
stickguy
9/10/2010-4:52pm at 4:52 pm (UTC -4)
sadly, I think the odds of Ollie being in camp, competing for a spot, just went from slim to overwhelming.
he just might be the designated Johan replacement until he is back and functional.
and #1? Right now, with the returning cast, Dickey and Neise can fight for it. I give it to dickey, deffering to the senior citizen.
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-5:10pm at 5:10 pm (UTC -4)
Sorry Ollie fans, the #Mets will keep Dillon Gee in Santana’s spot until further notice. 2 minutes ago via web
AnthonyDiComo
http://twitter.com/AnthonyDiComo/status/24137466616
stickguy
9/10/2010-5:14pm at 5:14 pm (UTC -4)
compound the problem by running the young guy that had a tron shoulder last year (never fixed, just rehabbed) right on up to 200 innings this year.
might as well see if they can blow him up too, maybe get a BOGO deal on the surgeries!
stickguy
9/10/2010-4:50pm at 4:50 pm (UTC -4)
this summary is sad on many levels.
-asking Jerry about filling in for him the rest of the way
-Omar talking about HIS plans for the off season, and how they might have to change.
- Mentioning Kelvim Escobar. Sure, he probably feels fine, sitting on the beach sipping Mai Tais. He just can’t seem to pitch anymore.
if nothing else, scratch him off the list for next year. If he pitches and gives you anything, consider it found money.
Maybe 2012 is the right place to focus after all.
Oh, and tell him, NO TENNIS.
stickguy
9/10/2010-4:46pm at 4:46 pm (UTC -4)
I also would not be surprised if he went all Mike Hampton on us for the next 3 years. and not the good part of his career!
metsfan4decades
9/10/2010-4:47pm at 4:47 pm (UTC -4)
I hate some of these beat writers. Having a press conference with Johan and one is banging Omar about the Beltran/Castillo/Perez not going to Walter Reed issue (or non issue, IMO).
Omar saying it’s was a non mandatory visit..
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-4:53pm at 4:53 pm (UTC -4)
Good to see Francesa is all over this Santana story.
metsfan4decades
9/10/2010-4:58pm at 4:58 pm (UTC -4)
I just don’t think I could torture myself with him right now. I’ll stick to SNY…
You know…I know there are many that don’t believe in luck but damn…this is just never ending, isn’t it? We go out and get one of the premier pitchers in the game, in his prime and he winds up with season ending surgery 3 years in a row. Absolutely no way to predict it but can once, just once…something go our way?
stickguy
9/10/2010-5:00pm at 5:00 pm (UTC -4)
meanwhile, 300# blobbo in the Bronx just keeps chugging along.
GravediggerHebner
9/10/2010-5:04pm at 5:04 pm (UTC -4)
I see you guys already know about Mark Prior. Key difference with Prior is that his was “completely torn off” not just “torn.”
The only other name that came up when I googled “torn anterior capsule” was Norm Charlton. Now it’s important to note that he had the surgery when he was 40 years old.
Before the surgery his prognosis was “3 to 4 weeks in a sling and 3 to 6 months of rehab.” At the time Charlton was quoted as saying “If it’s possible to play baseball again I’m going to try it.”
He never played again. But I’m not going to allow that to dim my hopes that was 7 years ago and he was 40 so I don’t think the circumstances are entirely similar.
stickguy
9/10/2010-5:18pm at 5:18 pm (UTC -4)
assuming the same prognosis 9which seems reasonable, even for a met), that is not too bad. Especially if you can consider ST the end of rehab.
have the surgery next week, and the high end (6 months) is mid march.
so while I would certainly not plan on having him starting opening day, being ready for the beginning of the season may not be a total fantasy.
So, I will put my money on June 1st for his first apearance.
This can be his Beltran year.
metsfan4decades
9/10/2010-5:09pm at 5:09 pm (UTC -4)
Joe Bennigo on DNL ‘Oh, the pain’.
They’re discussing why this is a good example why it’s ludicrous to give these pitchers 5-6 year contracts worth millions of dollars. Saying unfortunately though, this is the only way you can get them.
And I agree with Grave about developing your own pitchers. That’s the direction to go. Although, looking at Strasburg, being young doesn’t always guarantee anything either. It just makes it sting a little less b/c those young pitchers are not a big cost factor.
GravediggerHebner
9/10/2010-5:12pm at 5:12 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly. Nats have roughly $15 million invested in Strasburg. Mets have roughly $137 million invested in Santana.
stickguy
9/10/2010-5:16pm at 5:16 pm (UTC -4)
more like 80mill, since that is what they still owe him.
The first 57 or so has already been earned (and quite nicely too).
Just too bad it wasn’t a 3/57 contract he signed!
GravediggerHebner
9/10/2010-6:01pm at 6:01 pm (UTC -4)
Stick you’re correct but what I’m getting at is the idea that pitchers seem to succumb to injuries more often and more severely than hitters and so I’m looking at the total investment as if it’s a ticking time bomb.
If my $15 million bomb goes off I am disappointed but not devastated. If my $137 million bomb goes off well you know.
I just think it’s smarter, and I wrote at least one if not more posts about this over the last 9 months, that pitchers be more heavily invested in at/near the beginning of their careers than at/near the middle or end.
Ceetar
9/10/2010-6:46pm at 6:46 pm (UTC -4)
For instance, if Niese has a good year next year, give him a 7 year 45 million deal. Think about signing Pelf to an extension this offseason.
Although it varies. You can insure some or parts of contracts. the length of Santana’s i remember being an issue with that.
GravediggerHebner
9/10/2010-9:18pm at 9:18 pm (UTC -4)
I wasn’t even thinking that far ahead but I completely agree. Identify your talent and lock it up early is an important next step.
You won’t survive just giving out extensions willy-nilly but use your scouting/evaluation/development to determine which of the many young pitchers you are acquiring as amateurs and get the best ones in your determination extended.
If you lose the gamble you’ve lost $45 over 7 years not $137 over 6. Less hurtful. If you win the gamble you have very good pitchers performing for you at or below market value, probably below if you negotiated the extension with savvy similar to that used to extend Reyes & Wright.
TRS86
9/10/2010-9:53pm at 9:53 pm (UTC -4)
While true, most of these guys don’t disappear forever after their first year. You almost factor in one lost year in all of these 5+ year contracts.
GravediggerHebner
9/10/2010-10:40pm at 10:40 pm (UTC -4)
And given that you have much greater flexibility when that inevitable lost year occurs if your contracts are not so huge.
TRS86
9/10/2010-10:42pm at 10:42 pm (UTC -4)
True, I wonder if teams also factor that in as well however. So they know that at some point “x” pitcher will break down during this 5 years so we need to do …..
GravediggerHebner
9/10/2010-10:45pm at 10:45 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know the answer but I imagine it is in some way part of the process. I know that certain contracts are insured whereas certain others are un-insurable but I don’t know what makes a particular contract un-insurable, is it simply the terms of the contract, or the player’s particular injury history, or both?
TRS86
9/10/2010-10:49pm at 10:49 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know either. I am sure it’s both. I do know that the mets have commented it’s hard to get insurance past x amount of years. However, that would only really be an issue IF that said injury was near the end of the contract I would think. I think they would insure the first so many years either way.
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-5:16pm at 5:16 pm (UTC -4)
Stephen Strasburg rhp
4 years/$15.1M (2009-12)
Aroldis Chapman lhp
6 years/$30.25M (2010-15)
Yunesky Maya rhp
4 years/$8M (2010-13)
stickguy
9/10/2010-5:19pm at 5:19 pm (UTC -4)
I am still perturbed they did not go after chapman or maya.
interesting though they both went to smaller, lower budget teams.
TRS86
9/10/2010-9:53pm at 9:53 pm (UTC -4)
Chapman I am very confused on but Maya we have no idea if he is worth being in the discussion.
stickguy
9/10/2010-5:22pm at 5:22 pm (UTC -4)
I remember back when the johan deal went down, many of us did at least a bit of debbie downer on the party, wondering if this would happen. Still thought they should do it, but you had to recognize the risk.
I think it might have been MF that said to expect maybe 3 big years, a lost to injury year, and a couple of solid but not ace like years (where he would not come close to earning the salary). But overall, they would get beck their investment in that scenerio.
Well, it at least sounds like something she would say.
I need a beer.
TRS86
9/10/2010-9:54pm at 9:54 pm (UTC -4)
That’s a Wanny statement if I ever heard one.
metsfan4decades
9/10/2010-10:23pm at 10:23 pm (UTC -4)
Well, could have been Wanny. Wasn’t me Stick guy.
I truly thought at the time, even though it was at least one year more than I would have liked to see, we truly did win the lottery by getting one of the premier pitchers on the good side of 30.
TRS86
9/10/2010-10:29pm at 10:29 pm (UTC -4)
Still think we did. Just did not spend the lottery money very well and now we gotta go back to work.
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-5:41pm at 5:41 pm (UTC -4)
Jerry is on the Wfan.
stickguy
9/10/2010-5:44pm at 5:44 pm (UTC -4)
jerry is on something.
Mr North Jersey
9/10/2010-5:44pm at 5:44 pm (UTC -4)
Does Jerry really care to talk about 2011 knowing that he may not be here next year?
They talking about 2011 and tip toeing around the real possibility that Jerry won’t be here in 2011.
stickguy
9/10/2010-5:52pm at 5:52 pm (UTC -4)
omar seemed quite comfortable talking about the off season plans as if he is the one that will be executing them. which is making me quite nervous, and I am afraid what it might do to MF.
Jerry is gone anyway. Although he is technically under contract, since he has a team option which has to be formally declined. Not like they can just put his stuff on the curb, change the locks, and never speak to him again.
Ceetar
9/10/2010-6:13pm at 6:13 pm (UTC -4)
sure they can, they don’t have to publicly decline it to him, just to his agent. “Hey agent, we decline. Tell Jerry he can pick up his stuff in Willets Point. He probably should do so before dark”
hazmet
9/10/2010-6:36pm at 6:36 pm (UTC -4)
Everyone’s pretty much summed it all up here. My 2 cent’s. He’s done. How sad. Pitching 88-89 fastball most of this season can’t imagine coming back and be hitting those numbers so there won’t be enough difference to his change up. Best case, he is one saavy artist and he finds away to get it done like Petey in his later years. Or, Dickey turns him into a knuckler, not. Very depressing.
TRS86
9/10/2010-8:43pm at 8:43 pm (UTC -4)
Wow the guy is done. I guess no real point in rehab, just take him out to pasture.