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Sep 11

This Day In Mets Infamy With Rusty : The ” Now What ?” Edition

Okay so I guess with the news yesterday of Johan Santana’s need for season ending shoulder surgery, the Mets organization can finally take a deep breath and admit to us what we fans have known all along – THE SEASON IS ESSENTIALLY OVER !!! This has now morphed from a trying to stay in the race mode to a lets evaluate the younger talent mode. With that said I think that is safe to say that Jennry Mejia should start the season in either AA Binghamton or AAA Buffalo. Because from what I saw last night he is not the answer to the ’11 riddle of a starting rotation next season.
If opening Day 2011 started today our rotation thus far would look like
Mike Pelfrey
R.A Dickey
Jonathan Niese
Dillon Gee
and either Hisanori Takahashi ( if he doesnt go free agent) or Oliver Perez ( shoot me now !!).

I was scanning the pitchers that should be available via free agency this coming winter and the list that MLBTR.com and honestly there is not many top flight pitchers – or even decent middle of the rotation pitcher available.
Here is the list of the ’11 projected free agent pitcher.
Bronson Arroyo (34) – $11MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Erik Bedard (32) – $8MM mutual option
Jeremy Bonderman (28)
Dave Bush (31)
Bruce Chen (34)
Kevin Correia (30)
Doug Davis (35) – $6.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout
Jorge De La Rosa (30)
Justin Duchscherer (33)
Jeff Francis (29) – $7MM club option
Freddy Garcia (35)
Jon Garland (31) – $6.75MM mutual option with a $600K buyout
Rich Harden (29) – $11MM mutual option with $1MM buyout
Aaron Harang (33) – $12.75MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Hiroki Kuroda (36)
Cliff Lee (32)
Ted Lilly (35)
Rodrigo Lopez (35)
Kevin Millwood (36)
Sergio Mitre (30)
Brian Moehler (39)
Jamie Moyer (48)
Vicente Padilla (33)
Carl Pavano (35)
Brad Penny (33)
Andy Pettitte (39)
Nate Robertson (33)
Jeff Suppan (36)
Hisanori Takahashi (36)
Javier Vazquez (34)
Brandon Webb (32)
Todd Wellemeyer (32)
Jake Westbrook (33)
Dontrelle Willis (29)
Chris Young (32) – $8.5MM club option

Lets face the facts, the Mets will not be bidding on the services of Cliff Lee. He will be too expensive and he is injury prone. Carl Pavano is certainly a interesting candidate, but I am leery about his ability to play in New York. Everyone else on this list is pretty much the flotsam and jetsam of the league.
But lets face it the Mets need to get a front line starter once this season ends because it is all but certain that Johan will not be toeing the mound come opening day – hell he might not be back before the all star break and to trot out two good pitchers ( Niese , Dickey) one question mark ( Pelfrey) one rookie that has yet to prove himself ( Gee) and one guy who should have been buried in the Arizona dessert last July ( Perez) is just not what a big market club should be doing ! We don’t know what Omar Minaya’s status will be when this season mercifully comes to a end, but either he or his replacement better demand to his bosses – Jeff and Fred Wilpon that he gets the financial flexibility that he needs in order to put at the very least a team that can compete on the field next season. If the hot stove season comes and goes without any major roster changes well many Mets fans will feel like there will be no need to even attend any games next season. And you know what ? The Mets shouldn’t be afraid of the angry Mets fan – they always will come back. They should be afraid of the apathetic Mets fan because they are the ones that will be harder to convince that things will get better.

          

“Next years Mets Float”

 

And with that said… HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!

Today would have been onetime Mets pitcher, Larry Bearnarth (1941) Larry was used primarily as a middle reliever during his Mets career which lasted from 1963-1966.


Mets pitcher from the ’81 season, Dave Roberts is 66 ( 1944).

On this day in 1997 the Baltimore Orioles claimed Mets reserve catcher Charlie Green off of waivers.

And Mo Vaughn salutes all the brave men and women of the NYPD, FDNY ,OEM, PAPD and EMS that lost their lives, along with the nearly four thousand civilians that perished on the sad day nine years ago. You all are missed dearly.

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49 comments

  1. stickguy

    FIne, now you give me a natural place to put this!

    From Klapish, so take it with a giant grain of salt. But, still a chance he is right for a change. Of course, the rest of the article was mostly rehashed, hyperbolic drivel.

    “The process of toppling Minaya might not be so simple. While most everyone assumes the GM will take the fall for the summer’s catastrophes, Minaya isn’t necessarily willing to be re-assigned, as has been widely presumed. His contractual tie to the Mets is strictly as their general manager, meaning he’s not obligated to take any other job in the organization.”

    I would be quite pissed (but not at all shocked sadly) if the wilpons kept him on after this latest round of debacles (pointing right at the GM desk), just because they are already paying him, and he doesn’t ant to go do something else more suited to him. Not like if they release him, he will be getting offered another GM job!

    THis is a huge off season coming up for the future of this team. ANd man, they need the right people making the plan and executing it.

    1. TRS86

      And now I can move my reply.
      I don’t think the cost of Omar nor the new GM will be enough to change the Mets mind.
      One thing if they hire a new GM and Wally (even though I don’t like the thought process) they may actually make money off the transaction.

      1. stickguy

        don’t see how. Jerry is actually pretty low paid for a manger (750K this year), so no way are you getting a new manager, even wally, plus a GM worth diddle for that money.

        but you are right, Omar making 1mill should not be a stumbling block when they “know” it needs to be done. But with the wilpons, who knows?

        although this nugget from Cot’s makes it hard to feel sorry for them:

        “Fred Wilpon bought full control of the Mets in 2002, when an appraiser valued the club at $391M. Forbes magazine valued the club at $858M in April, 2010.”

        some nice appreciation there. ANd that does not include ownership of SNY (but they did have to pay for Citifield).

        1. TRS86

          I think you missed my angle. The spike in ticket sales going from omar and Manuel to say Wayne and Wally would most likely cover the difference.

          1. stickguy

            I fugured that out later when I saw your 1st response.

            altohough I would not bank on too many tickets being sold due to wally. Any new management team should generate a bump, just from the fresh hope angle.

          2. TRS86

            Are you serious? People are already comparing him go Davey and Gil. There will be a ton of people that “believe” in him before he manages a game and will buy tickets. What do they need 10,000 tickets to pay his salary, not counting merchandise and concession sales.

    2. GravediggerHebner

      Well first of all I don’t agree with his assertion that “everyone assumes Omar will take the fall.” The only guy I assume will be gone is Jerry Manuel.

      I HOPE Omar will be reassigned or fired but I certainly don’t assume it.

      Now that aside I’m no lawyer or contract expert but is the suggestion here that Omar’s contract has language that states “GM or bust” because if so it’s another in a series of stupid contracts the Mets organization has doled out (Beltran’s no arbitration offer allowed stands out among the stupidity).

      Omar’s contract, it’s salary and stipulations, is very vague on Cot’s so I can’t tell anything much from that. All I can really say is in my mind whatever salary Omar makes should not be prohibitive to a major league organization in a major market and if they believe they need a new GM and can’t reassign him they must simply fire him and pay him his contract to go to pasture.

      1. TRS86

        I don’t have a problem with Beltran’s arbitration offer. In fact it was a smart move by Beltran and Boras to forsee that eventually those type A statuses could hurt a future contract. The Mets needed to do it to get him and so be it. Also it’s not like the Mets would have felt comfortable offering arbitration nor would anyone aquiring him in a trade, well unless he can REALLY prove he is healthy. Would you take the chance on another 20 million for Beltran in 2012? Regardless of the season he has next year it would be a big gamble.

        1. GravediggerHebner

          I think in hindsight it has turned out to be an OK thing but at the time of the signing I think it was dumbass and I stand by that.

          Times have happened to change making these FA Type designations problematic but the ability to get a draft pick was huge at the time and the Mets eschewed it. If you choose to believe it was brilliant foresight on the part of the Mets I’ll just agree to disagree.

          What stands out more to me is this: even then the Mets had to do “stupid pet tricks” to get a high profile talented expensive FA to sign here; what will they have to do now that they’re more of a dysfunctional laughingstock?

          1. stickguy

            build from within, and stop signing overpriced/aging guys to bloated contracts?

          2. kingman 26

            Bingo!

            Pedro–1.5 good years, tens of millions wasted
            Beltran–3.5 very good years; 2.5 years of injuries and mediocrity
            KRod–Pretty good overall, not close to great, and a PR disaster now
            Bay–Total disaster after one year
            Johan–Looked good at the time; he has been very good, but we owe him 72 mil as he goes for his 3rd surgery in 3 years
            Ollie/Slappy–No comment needed.

            It is time to step back, realize it is time for a different approach, and be patient as they take a year to evaluate the kids, get the disaster deals off the books, and after 2011, figure out which kids are keepers and where they will spend on improvements after Ollie/Beltran/Slappy come off the books.

            Yes, I want them to win, but I am also patient and realistic.

          3. TRS86

            I don’t have a problem with any of those first signings, never liked the Perez signing because of the market. Beltran had one average year and then about a year lost to injury. He has not been great since returning and I would welcome him being traded. However, during most of his stay here he has been one of the best if not the best CF in the game. Krod, Bay and Johan were actually team friendly signings/trades if you can say that considering the cost. Krod took less per year and put a lot of faith into his option year. Bay took a large signing bonus to off-set cost, Johan practically traded himself here.
            I do think all of those deals were necessary. Did the Mets overpay in some of them? Yeah but isn’t that what the advantage of being a large market team is?

          4. GravediggerHebner

            It’s an advantage of being a large market team to a point. When the player(s) fails to earn the contract through his/their play if then that large market team suddenly closes it’s wallet, shrugs and says a proverbial “Oh well” then it’s no advantage.

          5. TRS86

            True but Beltran and Krod have produced. They did go out and replace Pedro and it’s too early to say on Bay. Ollie and Castillo have hurt, especially Ollie. Now what we don’t know is if the Mets did not sign someone because of Ollie, because of money, because of faith, stupidity or any other reason.

          6. GravediggerHebner

            Until someone writes their tell all novel we won’t ever know the reasons we can only take the information we have and hopefully use it to make informed guesses.

            All that I do know is the two players you name specifically woefully underperformed and were replaced with minimum salaried players.

          7. TRS86

            Very true. I still can disagree on how bad Castillo was last year but we have had that discussion. Obviously relying on Cora to be his primary backup was the real issue.

          8. GravediggerHebner

            You’re hired Stick. When can you start?

          9. metsfan4decades

            Bingo.

            ‘It’s a young man’s game’, should become the Mets new mantra.

          10. TRS86

            I don’t think it was brilliant on the Mets part, just necessary. I think we will see a LOT of contracts have that from here out. I think it was good forsight for Boras however and that is what he is paid to do. For the Mets it was not a stumbling block because I am sure to them they thought that if he is good enough to offer arbitration to then he will be good enough to resign.

  2. GravediggerHebner

    I don’t think there is anything the Mets can realistically do to substitute for Johan Santana in the rotation. As you note Lee isn’t going to happen and he is the only guy on that list that I would dare call an adequate sub.

    What makes it worse is the open ended aspect of Johan’s return. Not only do we not know when he may be back we don’t know at what percentage of optimum performance he will be let alone what percentage he can ever return to.

    I’m admittedly poor at trying to guess what particular players future salaries might be but making my best guess at who the Mets could both find useful and affordable my eyes leap to one name: Jorge De La Rosa.

    He’s not a top end stud with the requisite high salary but he’s 29 and decent. Perhaps the kind of guy that can be had for 3/$30 or so. Maybe I’m wildly off on that I just don’t know but anyway of the names on that list he’s a guy I would keep an eye on.

    1. TRS86

      I like him but don’t think he will be that expensive. I mentioned this in the other thread but to me this will be a telling issue about what the Mets plans for next year are. If it’s another transition year and they don’t believe in their 2011 chances then they will not bring in anything more than a filler 5/6 guy. However, if they do then they will need to bring in a middle to upper rotation guy to fill in for Johan. A case could be made that they need one any way and then a case could be made that they would not spend the money. However to me if they do not then I will see it as waving the white flag and I will join the list of the damned.

  3. stickguy

    as to your question. I was adament before Johan went down that they need to get another solid, reliable, legit SP. not going to be an ace, but in the ranking parlance (that I stil lhate) a #3 type. And that is still the case, but more so.

    On top of that, will be the usual reclaimation project guys, MiL contracts, etc. for filler and depth.

    On the list, a Vazquez for a year is a possibility. Webb is also a very intriguing option, in the risk/reward catagory. I also now expect Escobar to get an invite to comea back and try again. and there are a bunch of othe rnames that could be in the mix.

    but as noted, the overall FA pool sucks.

    AH, but the mets also have a bit of a log jam with upper level prospects. Especialyy OFs. Someone might need to go.

    so, the best hope for a new SP might be the trade market, which opens up a whold bunch of possibilities. Seems that Garza is just about everyones WD fantasy at the moment. Obviously he would be great, but there are probably other guys to be had. Just need a new GM to find them!

    But, Mejia has to be slotted into the minors. He can not in any case be planned on for the rotation. If a miracle happens in ST and he ptiches like 1984 Gooden, then maybe he can beat out someone for a spot. But there better be bodies ahead of him slotted for the rotation.

    and while Ollie needs to be released or dumped, I think the Johan issue might mean the odds are way up that he at lest comes to ST. Unless, of course, the new GM can override the other fools in the FO!

    although bringing Ollie to ST, then burying him and releasing him with the last cuts (after getting no work) would be fun. Truly just out of spite, but sitll fun to dick around with him like that.

    1. TRS86

      I think signing a Vasquez type AND a Webb type would be a very good move. To me that has to now be done to have a chance next year. If they throw Gee and Mejia out there then I might as well embrace the youth movement and forget about 2011.

  4. stickguy

    This year showed once again that building a starting staff is a crap shoot. And what you start up with is often far different than what you end up with, even on playoff caliber teams.

    so, it is hard for me to say what giving up on 2011 is (pitching wise). maybe signing no one, and saying that mejia, gee and stoner are going to be in the rotation.

    but, I still see neise, pelf and dickey as pretty much givens, even if they are going for it in 2011 (and rightly so).

    And you know they will be counting on Johan back within a couple of months.

    so a webb + de la rosa/vazquez or equivilant is not a bad way to go.

    I do, however, prefer a younger guy like Dela rosa that can potentially be useful for a couple of years, but if they can’t get one, a 1 year deal guy to tide them over is fine.

    I like the idea of Webb though. take a shot, maybe you get lucky.

    1. stickguy

      to expand slightly, even collecting an assortment of question marks/reclaimatin projects/etc. for ST (the throw them on the wall and see what sticks option) also does not scream giving up on the year to me.

    2. GravediggerHebner

      While I love the idea of Webb in a vacuum (his studliness led my fantasy team to a championship a few years ago) I just don’t think it’s a wise thing for this franchise, with it’s injury bugaboo, to invest in a “hope he can get back to what he was before injury” guy.

      1. TRS86

        I think as long as they also bring in a reliable guy AND the cost is ok then it’s a good idea. Example Lilly/Vasquez AND Webb. To me yeah it’s still could lead to nothing from Webb but then you at least have a midrotation guy to fill in.
        It can work as long as Webb is not counted on.

        1. GravediggerHebner

          Agreed. If he is a “6-8 starter” heading into spring training then I’m happy. If he’s anywhere “1-5″ I’m not.

        2. TRS86

          I am fine with him being in the competition for the rotation with guys like Gee for the 5th spot. I just don’t want it to be Gee AND Webb slotted in.

  5. metsfan4decades

    I think 2011 is going to be somewhat of a transition year. I’ll not be surprised if we don’t have a contending team, but one that’s looking to fill positions with an eye towards the future. And as Rusty put it, that might not be enough for some Met fans but as always, I’ll be following every game and every move.

    Honestly, would not surprise me if Johan does not make it back before mid year. Looking at not just next year, but beyond – as Johan ages – who will be that ace we’ll need? Will Mejia be ready to step up to the plate in 2012? Will the FO be smart enough to make a trade for someone? And by trade, I’m thinking it doesn’t have to be an established ace but one that looks very promising – like JJ did start of this season.

    I still like Wright and Reyes and Pagan and Davis and Thole for this team going forward. I’d like them to sign Dickey, keep Niese and yes, Pelfrey – Taka also but I’m thinking he might be a long shot. I think Taka wants to be an almost guaranteed starter somewhere.

    Outside of those above, everything else can be negotiable. I’d like to see Parnell stay but if he’s involved in a trade then so be it. Much as I’ve loved having the best lefty specialist in the game, might be time to part ways with Feliciano as well.

    1. TRS86

      If Feliciano had stayed a type A then I would have said goodbye, however it appears he is just a type B and not really worth losing unless he demands a lot of cash or years.

      1. metsfan4decades

        I’ll agree with that. I’m not sure though but isn’t his current salary at about 2.9MIL? And if yes, he’ll be looking for a raise for sure so is 3MIL plus for a 35 year old left specialist over paying?

        I’d like to roll the dice one more year with Pedro, but like you said, I guess it’s going to come down to how much it will cost.

  6. metsfan4decades

    Read an article the other day about the Cardinals and went went wrong this year. Article stated even though they have arguable the best hitter in the game today – Pujols – with Holliday behind him, Wainwright, Lohse and Carpenter at the top of the staff, the fall off from star to supporting cast is stark.

    Went on to say that they didn’t surround the core with enough good, stable talent. I can’t remember if it was a money issue, a clueless FO, or a combo of both, but I couldn’t help thinking the was a bit of the same problem with the Mets going back to 2006.

    I still like the young talent on this team and the promise of some talent we’ve got in the minors. If they don’t put all their eggs in one basket, and stay away from aging superstars, maybe we’ll have something good going forward for a lot of years.

    1. TRS86

      Yeah I mentioned this the other day. The Cards may be the most underachieving team in the league. The did not bring in enough depth and made a stupid trade for no reason at all. Also, LaRussa is not the god some make him out to be and thinks he is actually smarter than baseball itself. Must be the Billy Beane ties.

    2. GravediggerHebner

      From afar it seems the Cardinals had a better thing going when they had Walt Jocketty as GM than they do with Mozeliak. I love it that Jocketty is now running the Reds who are ahead of the Cards.

      What scares me about the Mets possibly naming Krivsky their GM is how quickly the Reds pushed him out for Jocketty.

  7. TRS86

    Based on what I read that was a mercy killing because they got off to a slow start. The team that the Reds have now and the above average minor leagues are owed in large part to Wayne and not Walt. If anything Wayne has shown that he can rebuild a team in a short time.

    1. GravediggerHebner

      Perhaps. I’m not into doing the research necessary to make an informed decision but with Krivsky only having been Reds GM for 2006-2007 I’m not inclined to give him sole or even lots of credit for the 2010 Reds.

  8. hazmet

    Ya know I have to chime in every time I see this vehicle with MY NAME on it. Seeing as MY NAME I’ve been using like 5 years now. lol, all in good humor, now where I may royalities FRED. lol. :p

  9. metsfan4decades

    Bill Madden making a case for Mazzilli for manager:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2010/09/11/2010-09-11_madden_to_save_mets_vote_towersmaz_in_2011.html?page=1

    1. stickguy

      hey, he sold me on the idea.

      I alsways thought Mazz was terrible with the O’s. Surprised to see that he was actualy the most successful maanger they have had in the last decade plus.

      sometimes common knowledge is bogus I guess!

      But, one quibble. WHile ML experience is nice, it is much better if it came in the NL.

      managine PH and pen moves in the “real” BB league is infinitily harder. AL? Just pick a guy, let him pitch until he is tired, and put in another guy. So easy, Even Jerry Manuel could do it!

      So, would I be upset by Mazz? Nope.

      but I still say, the GM decision is at least 10x more important than the manager decision (as long as jerry goes, anyone is better!)

  10. metsfan4decades

    Jerry Manuel has told reporters that Carlos Beltran has left knee tendinitis, and that he will not be in today’s lineup.

    This is his left knee and not the right knee he had surgery on last January.
    *************************

    And on it goes.

    1. Mr North Jersey

      The conspiracy theorist part of me says that is Beltran’s “F. U.” at the Mets for the whole Walter Reed fiasco.

      The truth most likely is he really has been favoring his right knee and therefore the left knee tendinitis.

      1. stickguy

        interesting quote form over at metsmerized. Boo hoo that boras is upset (tht just means it might cost him money), but the context of what it says about the wilpons (all speculation of course, no proof) certainly impacts the team going forward.

        I have never been big on the “wilpons must sell” idea, since if anything, new owners will spend less on payroll. But, maybe getting a modern, intelligent operating model would make it worthwhile?

        Nah, the mets would probably end up with some other dopes like the Dodgers have!

        “But his agent, Scott Boras, is livid at the Mets for what he believes was unfair treatment of Beltran, who had arranged a meeting for his own charitable foundation that same morning in Washington.

        “What they’ve done is the equivalent of Campbell’s soup taking one of their cans, kicking it down the aisle, tarnishing the can, and then trying to sell you the soup…Why is management doing that? There seems to be a serious problem there.”

        There’s a growing number of baseball people who are convinced that the Wilpons play a dangerous game of using the media to leak negative information, both true and untrue, to malign any of their high priced players if they produce poorly or get injured.

        It’s pure speculation and there’s no tangible evidence of it, but many in the industry are convinced of it.”

  11. stickguy

    now beltran has problems with the “good knee”?

    I think I will resurrect my mantra from the trade deadline (last 2 years I think). ANy moves made this off seaosn should be with an eye to beyond 2011 too.

    I am just getting closer to seeing 2011 as a real rebuild/retool/transition year.

    Must be the constant negative news spreading from the top. and my fear tha Omar keeps the reins (well, the leash that Jeffy is holding stays attached to his collar).

    and my god, Jerry might be playing out the sting and saying WTF to everything, but does he even care about getting another job? Agian, bizarre lineup up structure today.

    and why the hell is turner not up here and playing? I have not seen 1 question about it, or explanation from the team. Just silence.

    1. metsfan4decades

      Bite your tongue on Omar keeping the GM job….

      I’m starting to agree about 2011. I see no need to trade the young core but a transition year, one where we see what we’ve got with some of the youth, what we can do with the pitching staff, where the money is best spent – is looking more and more like the path.

      Concerning Turner…I have absolutely no idea. This year Sept especially would have been the perfect time to get a look see at anyone who might factor into slots needed to be filled next year.

      1. njstuckintx

        Speaking on a financial basis, they are somewhat hamstrung until 2012. Beltran, Castillo & Perez will be a big help, but that isn’t helping 2011 much, unfortunately.

  12. Prismo

    So I see on MLBTR that Rosenthal said Ricco won’t take over Omar’s job?

    1. stickguy

      I never actually thought he would. But, as always, these media guys are pulling it out of their arses. Mostly guesswork.

    2. GravediggerHebner

      But your twitter buddy Andy Martino says “don’t count out Ricco yet.”

      http://twitter.com/SurfingTheMets/status/24227783968

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