See what I did there? Clever.
You thought I was referring to the Mets with that title didn’t you? Well normally you’d be right but today you’re wrong. I’m referring to questionably useful starting pitchers currently employed by other teams. Ben Nicholson-Smith of MLBTR has a post up this morning entitled Teams With Potential Interest In Upside Starters that I encourage you to take a look at, go ahead, I’ll wait. Hmm hmm hmm. La la. OK, done? For our (and MLBTR’s) purposes upside starter will be defined as “a starter who has pitched at a high level in the major leagues but that has struggled and/or been injured recently.” One of the 14 teams (47% of the league) that Mr. Nicholson-Smith feels might be interested in an upside starter is our beloved New York Mets. So I ask you dear Mets fan: should the 2011 Mets be one of the many teams interested in an upside starter? If so, under what circumstances?
38 comments
njstuckintx
9/13/2010-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
I like J. Francis. The rest, not so much. Maybe Young. Maybe…
TRS86
9/13/2010-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Yes they should be in ADDITION to a solid starter. I have no problem gambling a little but with Johan potentially out they have to have someone stable as well.
Ceetar
9/13/2010-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Isn’t Oliver our upside starter?
If Omar/etc can successfully identify 2011′s R.A. Dickey, that’d be good.
TRS86
9/13/2010-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Uh hopefully he is someone elses. He is now 2 years from mediocre results.
TRS86
9/13/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Webb, Francis, Penny, Harden, Wang, Chris Young, Erik Bedard and Justin Duchscherer for those like I who are too lazy.
From that list I would take gambles pending price on Webb, Francis, Harden Young, Bedard and Duch to varying degrees.
I have always liked Young, not sure what the deal is though. Why it has never connected.
njstuckintx
9/13/2010-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
It’s amazing how bad this year’s FA SP pool is overall. Other than Lee and Lilly, it’s slim pickings for sure.
GravediggerHebner
9/13/2010-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
If anyone sitting at a computer reading this right now is too lazy to click on something then they are in fact not sitting at a computer reading this right now, they are in their bed struggling to unwrap a Yodel while the fire department figures out how to lower them out of their apartment window to the waiting ambulance below.
But seriously I would have put the names up there but I was unclear on how much would be stealing their original content and I know they’re all over that so I took what felt like a safe route.
TRS86
9/13/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
You did the right thing. We have a little more liberty in the comment section however.
GravediggerHebner
9/13/2010-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
On the topic I think I agree with TRS sentiment.
The Mets should only consider investing in one of the struggling/injured upside pitchers if they also invest in a steady-eddie guy who while he may not be awesome he has shown an ability to make starts every 5 games and not totally suck more often than not.
Sadly I feel strongly that the Mets are not in any way considered “a destination” by free agents so ideally the Mets will trade for someone in one category or the other (upside or steady).
Otherwise I think the Mets will be left with the scraps (I mean I’d love Lilly to come as a steady guy but I envision him having many more palatable options) so I’m looking at a Millwood or a Westbrook as my steady.
For my upside guy I think the biggest names/highest upside guys (such as Webb) will prefer to avoid psuedo-Prevention & Recovery Queens so again looking at a lesser light such as Duchscherer (who I’ve always liked but is never healthy).
njstuckintx
9/13/2010-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Who fits in that trade market? Only one that comes to mind would be Garza or maybe someone ex. Toronto (as they seem to have a good problem of lots of pitching)
TRS86
9/13/2010-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
I keep hearing Garza and I can’t figure out why in the world the Rays would trade him this off-season.
njstuckintx
9/13/2010-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
Salary. He’s scheduled for a decent increase and from what I have read they have some talent in the minors and need payroll flexibility. I could have read wrong, but I’m only as good as what I read, which is why I read here vs. FWICG.
TRS86
9/13/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t see it being that much. He is not a FA until 2014.
njstuckintx
9/13/2010-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
Doesn’t he look to make like 4-5 million in arb? If I’m the rays, I wouldn’t want to trade him. Just saying what I’ve read.
Would you trade Ike for Garza, then look to sign a 1B (Pena or someone comparable)? Just curious. I don’t want to trade Ike at all, but I’m not seeing any real FA SP to help and the only other way is either rely on Mejia/Gee or trade. If trade, we have to be realistic in our expectations that only trading something of value will bring back something of value. The surplus in Cincy with their need for an OF seems the best fit, per se. I dunno.
TRS86
9/13/2010-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Obviously I would trade Ike and any other player in the system for Garza. I just don’t get why they would do it. Even if he goes up to 6-8M that is not too expensive for them. It’s the Rays not the Pirates. They opened the season with a 72M payroll.
GravediggerHebner
9/13/2010-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
I think you’ve come up with some fine suggestions there I hadn’t thought it through to that level yet just to the point of “who is going to willingly sign with the Mets without being blown away financially or having grown up a fan of the team?” To be fair perhaps that’s too negative/pessimistic but I’ll need an actual signing, not just talk of one, to convince me I’m wrong so it’s going to be a while.
Both teams you mention, the Rays & Jays, are excellent candidates simply because they have good pitching staffs and none of their current starters are reaching free agency.
The Braves would seemingly have some surplus but as a division foe that is more difficult. Depending on what the Reds do with Arroyo & Harang’s options they may have surplus. Maybe if the Giants miss the playoffs they’d consider shedding a starter for some offense.
TRS86
9/13/2010-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t see the Reds picking up Harang but would be foolish not to pick up Arroyo.
GravediggerHebner
9/13/2010-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
I consider that a reasonable view of it.
So for discussion sake they let Harang go but keep Arroyo. Harang then becomes a FA SP that the Mets may consider, or for trade with Reds purposes they would now have Arroyo, Cueto, Leake, Bailey, Wood, Volquez and some guys named LeCure & Maloney who made starts for them this season.
At a quick glance that’s some depth for them to trade.
GravediggerHebner
9/13/2010-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
And that doesn’t even factor in Chapman who may start.
TRS86
9/13/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
I could see Volquez and Bailey as attractive trade candidates.
TRS86
9/13/2010-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
Also appears they need OF which means they could match up well.
TRS86
9/13/2010-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
True. As for Harang and the Mets it’s been a while since he was a mid-rotation stable guy.
njstuckintx
9/13/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed.
njstuckintx
9/13/2010-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
Braves do fit the bill, but the inter-division thing makes me think no. I could see the Giants shedding Sanchez, but he scares me like Perez does. Same thing with De la Rosa as a FA ex. Colorado.
TRS86
9/13/2010-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
Speaking of pitchers for next year. I would not mind Kuroda at all. He should be cheaper and be able to sign for a shorter contract than many of the other names. Guy’s been very good for all 3 years in his career. Only problem is that he is 35, I think however that may keep his term down to 2 years.
metsfan4decades
9/13/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
FA crop of pitchers are pretty uninspiring this off season – outside of Lee who we’re not getting and Lilly who I don’t want given his age (not unless it was a one year contract and that’s not happening).
I’m with you all above….if they want to invest in a struggling pitcher with upside potential that’s fine, but that cannot be the only pitcher they acquire this off season. Not in my opinion anyway given Satana’s status.
Thing is though, I don’t want to see them take a chance and spend big bucks in what I really think is going to be a type of transition year for them. I’ll bet they’re thinking Pelf/Niese/Dickey/Gee to start off with.
TRS86
9/13/2010-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
I agree they most likely are thinking those guys. They need to then bring in a mid-rotation guy and someone to compete with Gee.
TRS86
9/13/2010-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
To expand on this, also from MLBTR:
* James Shields
* Matt Garza
* Jeremy Guthrie
* Zack Greinke
* Kenshin Kawakami
* Derek Lowe
* Carlos Zambrano
Non-Tender Candidates
* Chad Gaudin
* Kyle Davies
* Brian Bannister
* Ryan Rowland-Smith
* John Lannan
* Chien-Ming Wang
* Zach Duke
* Brandon McCarthy
* Brian Tallet
TRS86
9/13/2010-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
Potential trade candidates and Non=Tender guys.
I have always thought Duke would be a good pickup for the Mets as would Tallet as he could be the Taka if Taka leaves.
metsfan4decades
9/13/2010-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
I’ve been wondering what will happen with Taka.
I really like him as the 6th starter/BP long man but I get the impression Taka wants to be in 5 man starting rotation for some team.
TRS86
9/13/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
You also have to wonder with him if money is as much of an issue as pride.
GravediggerHebner
9/13/2010-1:36pm at 1:36 pm (UTC -4)
Things I like about Ryan Rowland-Smith:
NYC used to have a local nightly news anchor named Rolland Smith;
He is from Australia which is a source of fascination for me.
Things I don’t like about Ryan Rowland-Smith:
1-10, 6.88, 1.699 WHIP, 3.6 k/9, 1.00 k/bb
stickguy
9/13/2010-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
The FA pool does seem woefully underwhelming. I was hoping they would be able to trade for someone decent.
Most likely, they will have to move some prospects this off season onayway, to balance out the rosters and 40 man. Besides, that is what they are there for!
I have said all along (even before Johan morphed into maine) that they needed to add a solid, reliabe mid-rotation guy for stability (yes, that can be a #3 for you peopole obsessed with slotting). And I always like the idea of a risk/reward guy with talent.
But, even with Johan, are the mets going to invest real $$ in 2 SPs?
anyway, I have been interested in trying to get Webb as that guy for a while. He is the one that I would take a run at. And frankly, most of those other names I am not that familiar with, other than to know they are not particularly good!
other than webb though, I like the idea of getting the younger/healthy guy that has given glimpses, but never put it all together. instead of broken down old guys that you are hoping somehow stay together and rediscover their youth!
metsfan4decades
9/13/2010-2:12pm at 2:12 pm (UTC -4)
‘I like the idea of getting the younger/healthy guy that has given glimpses, but never put it all together. instead of broken down old guys that you are hoping somehow stay together and rediscover their youth!’
Couldn’t agree with that statement more….
Ceetar
9/13/2010-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
irrelevant to me really. Dickey would’e been the second, not the first.
stickguy
9/13/2010-2:33pm at 2:33 pm (UTC -4)
nah, dickey would be in some thrid catagory. Journeyman veterans that some out of nowhere?
actually, making a late career change to the knuckler, I think he is in a class of his own!
How about Pedro, post-Mets, as the 2nd type? And Cliff Lee, the year he almost was cut loose in ST (after going to the minors the yer before), but won a Cy Young instead as the first kind?
Mr North Jersey
9/13/2010-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
[OFF TOPIC]
The Mariners, Rangers trade earlier this season invloving Cliff Lee and Josh Lueke sure has gotten ugly.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2012784518_lueke02.html
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/so-did-the-mariners-know-that-josh-leuke-had-legal-trouble-or-not.php
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/top-posts/report-mariners-to-fire-professional-scouting-director-over-josh-lueke-controversy.php
stickguy
9/13/2010-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t even imagine the level of crap that would be written about this if the Mets were somehow involved (on either end of the deal).