It’s funny how things can change in a month. Around this time in August there was still some hope – some optimism if you will about the Mets being able to make one last run for postseason glory. There was talk by Jerry Manuel, some of the players and even a minority of the fan base that felt that there was a ghost of a chance this team could get this ship straight and at least be in contention for the wild card.
Well here we are in mid-September and there were ghosts last night in Citi Field – about thirty-seven thousand of them that masqueraded as empty seats. This is not a horror flick for Fred and Jeff Wilpon. This is the harsh reality that the must face . I have said many times that there is enough blame to go around in the way this organization down, from management to the players, but you know something ? I am starting to think the the lion’s share of blame must be levied on the shoulders of the Mets ownership.
Recently I have been speaking to current as well as former beat writers for the Mets, and the picture that they paint about ownership is not pretty to say the least. One ex Mets beat writer who I talked to was scathing in his opinions about the teams ownership. I admit that I don’t know if some or all of the writers that I have been in correspondence with have some kind of axe to grind with the Mets – whether it’s with the Wilpons themselves or the team as a whole, but what they have said to me should possibly come as a surprise to no one. One writer in particular ( who will remain nameless feel that the Mets lack of accountability starts at the top with ownership. He goes on to tell me that ” Even Ollie Perez – as bad as he is, is being used as a scapegoat when in fact you should blame those who gave him the money!” When I put the blame on the Perez signing as Omar Minaya scrambling for a pitcher after he failed to sign Derek Lowe the reporter said, ” Nothing gets done in Flushing unless Jeff signs off on it . And whenever a team goes into the sh%tter like that it’s the owners fault.” When I asked him if he ever thought it would get this bad with ownership the beat writer said ” As soon as Jeff took over . Around ’02-’03. It was obvious“. He would go on to blame Fred Wilpon for the A-Rod debacle saying that “ It was the Wilpon’s call, Phillips ( Steve Phillips the general manager at the time) gladly took the bullet, got him a extra year’s pay out of it’ and that ” Phillips used the 24 +1 line to masquerade Freddie’s cheapness.”
All I can say is OUCH !! Like I said before this is coming from a ex Mets beat reporter who covered the team for a very long time. Can you take everything he says as the the total truth without any shades of grey? The answer is no – but it does give us the insight on how the media possibly perceives this team and why it seems that they are the whipping boys of the press.
"Hey ! We can dream !"
And with that said….. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Celebrating Birthdays today are:
Original pitcher from the ’62 season, pitcher, Dave Hillman is 83 (1927) .
One of the most overlooked Mets pitchers from ’73- ’75, Harry Parker (1947) .
Pitcher from the ’93 team, Mike Draper is 44(1966) .
One of the many reason why the Mets made it to the ’06 NLCS, middle reliever,Chad Bradford is 36 (1974) . Damn I wish Omar never let him get away !
New York Mets traded pitcher,Dan Murray to the Kansas City Royals for the enigma that was Glendon Rusch on September 14, 1999. Rusch was the precursor to Mike Pelfrey, when he was on he was dominant – but when he was off … LOOK OUT !!
Mo Vaughn had the Worlds Fare Market all to himself last night as well as the Mets room by section 436.
And remember there are now just 18 games left before Jerry Manuel’s tenure as Mets manager comes to a close !
92 comments
metsfan4decades
9/14/2010-6:59am at 6:59 am (UTC -4)
There has to be a good deal of truth in what you’re hearing Rusty, even if some of it is colored by negative feelings from some of these beat writers.
Since we know that the Wilpons aren’t selling this is one of the reasons I’ve been saying Omar must go as GM. Jeff has no trust in him what so ever. If Dad is smart, he’ll tell Jeff to hire the most competent GM money can buy. Maybe, just maybe, that way Jeff will take a step back when he gets the hint that the new GM knows far more than he ever will when it comes to running a baseball team.
And as you said…I can dream, can’t I?
rustyjr
9/14/2010-7:29am at 7:29 am (UTC -4)
You know it’s funny I got the notion that the guy inwas talking toddle bad about bashing ownership but he just had to get what he said off his chest
TRS86
9/14/2010-7:33am at 7:33 am (UTC -4)
“As soon as Jeff took over . Around ’02-’03. It was obvious“.
So was it obvious in 2005 with a rebuilding team? How about 2006 with a team that for sure could have won the WS? How about 2007 and 2008 when missed the playoffs by one game?
While the owners have issues along with everyone else, they have provided the Mets with more than enough money and talent to get the job done and they have not.
rustyjr
9/14/2010-7:47am at 7:47 am (UTC -4)
Like unsaid trs that’s his opinion not mine – I even brought up ’06-’08 and he said no. that was their moment. they blew it. I wrote this day after game 7, got vilified by mets fans. Turns out I was right
rustyjr
9/14/2010-7:52am at 7:52 am (UTC -4)
Sorry that is his quote entirely – I challenged him on his wilpon being cheap by pointing out mets huge payroll and he responded by saying
a lot of wasted cash. typical mets spend it on the wrong guys, for too many years, then throw kids out there
I take what he said with a grain of salt but I can’t discout everything he said as just being malicious just for the sake of it
TRS86
9/14/2010-8:28am at 8:28 am (UTC -4)
Sure sounds like sour grapes doesn’t it. When you say things like that was their moment and they blew it? So it was obvious that the Mets would make it to game 7 and blow it then have 2 seasons in which they lost on the last day? If that was obvious to him then he’s in the wrong line of work and should move to Vegas.
Ceetar
9/14/2010-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
I agree. Whoever this was (I don’t care, I’ve been following less and less of the beat writers because they have less and less to contribute.) pretty much echoed all the anti-Mets talking points that people bring up. It’s laughable even. I know David Lennon likes to talk up these points and is pushing the agenda of Mets spend ZERO and Tejada is the 2Bman.
The comments contradict themselves. If Jeff’s such a disaster, then they wouldn’t have had 4 consecutive winning seasons, seasons that were one injury not happening or one guy working out a little better from World Championships and multiple playoffs.
Not saying that there aren’t problems with the way the Mets are run and decisions are made, but they’re not crippling problems.
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. Although it’s clear that the old plan has ran it’s course and has not worked the last 2 years. Thus a new plan is needed.
Ceetar
9/14/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
New plans been in place, they just didn’t communicate it to us. the question is now who gets to execute it to completion?
TRS86
9/14/2010-8:31am at 8:31 am (UTC -4)
Obviously just as Hojo is to blame for the hitting, Manuel is to blame for the losing, Omar is to blame for the roster, Jeff is to blame for the organization and Fred is to blame for the Mets there is blame to go around. However, I do not believe all of that blame is equal and I can’t really say that the primary issue has been the Wilpons. Ultimately yes they are to blame because that’s how it works.
rustyjr
9/14/2010-8:38am at 8:38 am (UTC -4)
Don’t shoot the messenger here – I’m just as amazed as you but obviously this is how a few of the beat writers see this team
metsfan4decades
9/14/2010-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know about you all but some of these beat writers lately just keep beating a dead horse over and over again. Maybe that’s why they call them ‘beat’ writers….
kingman 26
9/14/2010-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
HAHA!
As the old saying goes, even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.
I am as much of a critic of the media these days as anyone, but this critique sure meets the reality we have seen since the lie-fest on WFAN by Jeff last fall.
The Wilpons are in it for profit first, second, and last.
If, when looking at their other businesses, it makes more sense to continue to lower payroll, take less risk, and still make money, that is what they are going to do. And already did in 2010.
Ceetar
9/14/2010-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
Every single team in sports is in it for profit first. Every one!
kingman 26
9/14/2010-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Like much of what you assert, simply not true.
The Yanks, Cowboys, Redskins, Raiders, Knicks, Lakers—and many others–clearly will spend ridiculously and carelessly in pursuit of winning first.
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
So are you saying those teams are not looking to profit? They just realize with their brand to increase profit they have to win.
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
Also why make it personal? “like much of what you assert”?
Ceetar
9/14/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Nope. Just because it looks ridiculous, or they have more money to begin with, doesn’t mean they’d rather win. Yes, winning makes you more money, but name me one Yankees team that spent and didn’t profit. The 90s teams were highly paid, but not obessively. they hadn’t quite b uilt up the ‘empire yet’
andt hen A-Rod? The Yankees made money off A-Rod, which is why they backed down and lost the “If he opts out, we’re done” ego battle with Boras (something that very closely mimics some of the battles the Mets have had with him). Because they drew a ton more fans with A-Rod, and marketing him, than without. Money. Now they’re locked into a foolish contract with him, which is more about, MONEY, than performance. and don’t be foolish and suggest they’re going to cut him when he’s ancient and can barely play and they’re testing for HGH.
kingman 26
9/14/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
“Just because it looks ridiculous, or they have more money to begin with, doesn’t mean they’d rather win.”
Or it could mean they would risk losing lots of money to try to win?
As for the whole second paragraph, I totally disagree. They just won the WS, and ARod was a key part of that. They looked at what their options were if they let ARod go, and decided to spend ridiculously to try to win. Which they did. An example of how they put winning first—get it? They spent ridiculously to try to win the WS.
And this is classic–”don’t be foolish and suggest they’re going to cut him when he’s ancient and can barely play and they’re testing for HGH.”—Create something I did not even come close to suggesting and then call me foolish for uttering it!
I can see I am fighting a clearly losing battle today! Thank heavens!
TRS86
9/14/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
Perhaps I don’t understand NFL that much but with the salary cap a lot of teams are in the same neighborhood. However, the teams you mentioned the Cowboys (29th), Redskins (21st), Raiders (14th) were hardly near the top in team payrolls for 2009.
In fact your team the Dolphins were #1 with $136,536,261 compared to the Cowboys $90,340,939
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
What sports owner is not in it for profit? Otherwise they would go bankrupt.
By your logic the Wilpons actually could field a team with a 30M payroll and most likely profit more than they are now. So why even have the payrolls they have or have had?
kingman 26
9/14/2010-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
No, not at all. A very ridiculous and gross exaggeration of what I said.
In a market like NY, owning your own TV network, it is VERY possible that the Wilpons could make more from having 35,000 at every game with a $130 million payroll than by having 42,000 at every game and a $150 million payroll.
THAT is what I was suggesting, not the nonsense exaggeration you turned it into.
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
And they also could make more from having 30,000 at every game and having a 70M payroll. There is a point at which attendance will not go down below nor viewership on SNY. Regardless of how bad the team is. Even if they went with all youth if they only had a 70M payroll they most likely would make more money than they do right now.
I am sure the Wilpon’s goal is just like any other owner. Make a profit WHILE being competitive thus building your brand.
TRS86
9/14/2010-8:53am at 8:53 am (UTC -4)
Oh Rusty, you are doing a great job. Just a little weary of the beat writers seeing this as an opportunity to get revenge on the Mets or pile on or whatever the issue is. What makes me wonder is if they are doing this just to create hits or if the Mets FO has done something to piss them off. With a guy like Rubin I think it’s most likely both.
kingman 26
9/14/2010-8:53am at 8:53 am (UTC -4)
Of course it is largely ownership’s fault, though on this team there is more than enough blame to go around. Omar’s roster being more top-heavy and having less depth EVERY year since 2006; Jerry’s clear faults as manager; the players’ clearly not all being hustlers who care as much as they should—all of this should be clear to anyone.
However, the Wilpons are in this for money first and foremost—the people who ignored the way Citi was originally designed as a shrine to advertising with little Met history/colors/etc are just blind to the reality it clearly points out in terms of what the Wilpons’ top love/priority is. It’s money, not the Mets.
Everyone should really stop and consider that with TV money, corporate overpaying for boxes/restaurants/parking/etc, the Wilpons may make MORE money by having a few thousand less people in the stands and a payroll that is $20 million or so lower.
We will certainly see where this leads, but ownership quite clearly–for reasons none of us understand–put the kibosh on continuing to escalate spending last offseason, and their refusal to add a cent of payroll in-season, or make any changes whatsoever (other than acting real quick when it came to the possibility of voiding KRod’s deal and saving millions) should show the direction this team is going.
The real question is whether the kids are good or not. We will see in 2011, and if they don’t pan out, yikes. We will be very well entrenched in fourth place.
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:02am at 9:02 am (UTC -4)
“the players’ clearly not all being hustlers who care as much as they should—all of this should be clear to anyone”
If that is so clear, who are those players and what evidence do we have of them not caring or being a hustler?
kingman 26
9/14/2010-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
1–Oliver Perez, Francoeur, Beltran, Reyes, Castillo…
2–Watching the games without an incredibly well-developed sense of denial?
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
So Frenchy, Beltran, and Reyes all did not hustle nor care as much as they should?
Wow. I wish I had those glasses. I could be out of denial. Again with the if you don’t see it my way you are in denial crap?
kingman 26
9/14/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
“Again with the if you don’t see it my way you are in denial crap?”
So this is how it is going to be every time I assert an opinion?
Your trolling me with this same response?
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
Asserting an opinion is one thing. Calling out those who have different views as in denial is another.
stickguy
9/14/2010-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
I will spot you ollie. But not the other 4. Even with reyes and the famous losing focus once in a while issue!
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Even losing focus does not imply that he does not care as much as he should or does not hustle. It just means he is immature which we already knew.
kingman 26
9/14/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
What’s the difference?
If the results are the same, what’s the difference what the cause is?
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
Because there is a big difference in being immature and being someone who has no heart, does not hustle and does not care.
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
And no the results would not be the same. An immature player would have lapses while a player that you describe would just suck.
metsfan4decades
9/14/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
I have to agree here. I don’t see Beltran and Reyes in that light.
Francoeur, while he was here and playing, was all effort. It wasn’t until he started as part of a platoon that he started whining. Even with the whining, I don’t think there was a lack of effort on his part. He just can’t hit…)
TRS86
9/14/2010-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
I also thought the winning was blown out of proportion just like in NY that’s what happens. Are we saying a veteran should not be upset with being benched for a guy that had not even proven himself in AAA yet? He could have kept it out of the press but in NY will the press even allow that? What we also have to remember is that while it should be team first at all times, millions of dollars is a lot of money and that is has to factor in to what Frenchy was playing for. Uh oh, here comes the “They are just in it for the money”. Well of course money plays a role. If Frenchy did not get playing time or did not play the rest of the season then who’s to say he even got an MLB deal next year?
stickguy
9/14/2010-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
real, nice faux pas there:
“I also thought the winning was blown out of proportion”
Oh, for lack of an H, my horse was an Orse.
TRS86
9/14/2010-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
Yeah well that too. Thanks
stickguy
9/14/2010-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
“Recently I have been speaking to current as well as former beat writers for the Mets,”
Whoa, BMOC alert! At least you were too cool to name names (but, I hope you are not one of the people that complained about the writers quoting players but refusing to say which ones!
anyway, still sounds like som measure of spin going on. and a measure of “so what”. Fred obviously is not too cheap to have a top tier payroll eveyr year. And at A Rods price, 28 other teams obviously also thought it was way too rich. So is the problem being too cheap to outbid Texas? Or that they floated an excuse (which you can’t say was not also valid, in retrospect!), instead of saying “shee at, too rich for out blood”?
and don’t a lot of other teams have it where the GM has to run moves past the man i ncharge? Probably a real BB man presidients though, not the owners kid, but still, they don’t have autonomy to go out and make major moves without getting them blessed.
and in the ollie case, I still blame Omar, if as GM, he decided that in that situation ollie was the man, and that was the price to offer. It does not change that fact if Jeffy was also stupid enough to sign off on it.
so, unless you are saying that Omar did not want him, and Jeffy cooked up the deal on his own, it is still Omar’s baby to raise.
TRS86
9/14/2010-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
While Omar is to blame for Ollie I don’t fault him that much. I did not like the move as I thought they could have gotten Wolf and Garland however at the time it was not as bad of a move as it turned out to be. Ollie was a young LH that had came off of 2 full successful seasons. There was NO implications that they would be followed by 2 lost seasons.
Ceetar
9/14/2010-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
No, the people that didn’t like it didn’t think he was the ‘answer’ and maybe he wasn’t, but I think it’s hard to project him as being worse than a .500 pitcher.
Also, that was another anti-Mets talking point. “Jeff was upset that Omar didn’t push harder for Ollie to go down.”
Actually, that, Beltran’s surgery, even A-Rod all reek of powerplays between the Mets and Boras.
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
I have not heard the Jeff angle on Ollie. Either way it’s not like he could not push Ollie.
Ceetar
9/14/2010-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
I heard it somewhere..probably from the beat writers though. doesn’t mean it was true.
It _is_ another contradiction. Either Jeff has his hands in everything or he doesn’t and was upset with the way Omar handled it..
stickguy
9/14/2010-8:52am at 8:52 am (UTC -4)
also, lot’s of other owners get involved with the big moves. You hear all the time about GMs coming up with deals, and owners putting the kibash on them.
I am not trying to defend the Met FO set up. THe problem to me is not ownership per se, it is having Jeffy as the COO (or whatever he is) directly managing the talent side (IOW, omar’s boss). The payroll says they are not “cheap”. Misguided? Sure.
so, it would be best IMHO that they get a new GM, but also someone to be the BB organization guru to come in ad take over that responsibility from Jeffy. Let him concentrate on whatever non-talent part of his job there is. Probably he will still be clued into the grand plan (and be part of the vision-setting process), and may have to approve of the big $$ stuff, but that sounds exactly like every other team in MLB.
TRS86
9/14/2010-8:56am at 8:56 am (UTC -4)
I wonder how Davey Johnson would do in a front office role for the Mets? I am guessing it’s not something he is in to but he for sure could be that senior adviser everyone is looking for. You would also think he has a good relationship with our future manager.
rustyjr
9/14/2010-9:03am at 9:03 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think you can pry him away from the nationals btw when infer home I’ll let you guys know who said this – our conversation was open in twitter for all to see – I just am weary of using the guys name without permission if you know what I’m saying – but mr.n.j knows who it is
TRS86
9/14/2010-9:15am at 9:15 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think he would turn down a chance to come back to NY as long as the situation was right.
rustyjr
9/14/2010-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
I love davey – but I think like Bobby V that ship has sailed
metsfan4decades
9/14/2010-9:20am at 9:20 am (UTC -4)
Ah…..well, I can see who it is looking at your twitter feed.
stickguy
9/14/2010-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
for those of us that have no idea how to look at his twitter feed?
rustyjr
9/14/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
I’m under the name @lagranderusty
Ceetar
9/14/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
He wasn’t ever a beat writer was he? I thought you were talking about Rubin at first, but I went back and looked at your feed. I believe it even less now. The guy’s a raving lunatic.
rustyjr
9/14/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Lol take as you will then
metsfan4decades
9/14/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
LOL….well, I see he’s now covering the Yankees now so he should fit right in.
stickguy
9/14/2010-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
OH, Wally. I have not seen anything written by him in ages. Not getting access to newdays online I think was probably a blessing.
Ceetar
9/14/2010-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
Actually he’s ESPNNY now. not that I ever go to that site either. Which is probably why he commented ont he Mets, since he covers the Yankees.
TRS86
9/14/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
“no. they’re better than that. but the window for guys like Reyes and Wright and santana to win it all is rapidly closingh”
I will give him Santana BUT how old were Utley, Howard, and Rollins when they won their first one? Saying the window is closing for Reyes and Wright to me just about discredits anything he said.
njstuckintx
9/14/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
“Authorities said in court Tuesday that Rodriguez violated an order of protection by sending his girlfriend 56 text messages apologizing and urging a resolution. They said he’ll now be charged with criminal contempt.” – AP
uh, not good.
stickguy
9/14/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, that may bite him in the butt. ALthough maybe for a change the justice system will have some common sense, and actually look at them?
I suppose though that if the Wilpons are going to push ahead with trying to void the whole contract (still don’t see it happening), it will make it easier now.
njstuckintx
9/14/2010-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
That’s what I was thinking. That said, he was the best the Mets had out of the Bullpen. Maybe if he’s contract gets voided they can use that money on SP!!!!
metsfan4decades
9/14/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
wow…I guess I really need to come up to speed in this modern day world of technology. I would have never realized that an order of protection would include text messages….
TRS86
9/14/2010-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
I just don’t see a problem with him communicating with his wife/partner to try and save their relationship. Was she damaged by these text?
njstuckintx
9/14/2010-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
If there is some sort of restraining order or some mandate concerning amount of conversation, regardless if she was “damaged” or not, it is not a smart thing to do. I’m sure Wanny can expound on this, but I think contempt is not really a good thing. may only mean a couple days in jail or a fine or something, but point being, another violation of the law looks (to me) that Krod will get his contract voided.
Prismo
9/14/2010-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
Who are you to say whether or not it was a smart move?
Maybe Krod’s decision was:
A. Follow the mandate: definitely lose your girlfriend and kids
B. Do not follow the mandate: have a shot at getting your gf and kids back, but will be charged
If that was the case, which is likely was, I can’t blame the guy.
njstuckintx
9/14/2010-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
I am NJstuckinTX. That’s who.
TRS86
9/14/2010-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Question is was it communicated clearly to Krod that he could not text his wife?
njstuckintx
9/14/2010-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
Grave brought it up in the other post. If it was, shame on him. If it wasn’t, shame on Dewey, Cheatem & Howe, Attorneys at Law.
stickguy
9/14/2010-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
well, for all we know, santana is done.
But Utley and Howard did not even become regulars until about 25/26, so IOW, only a year or so younger than wright and reyes are today. So if the mets window is closed, the phils muct be slammed shut, since that team is way, way older!
28/29 for utley/howard when they won the WS.
stickguy
9/14/2010-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
speaking of money (and yes, all the teams are in it for that. You think Jerry Buss is going to subsidize a loss just to have a shot at the playoffs?)
the players are all about the money too. with very, very rare exceptions (usually aging vets that have already made a fortune, but even there they only take less to a certain extent).
There was a quote in the paper today from a football player (forget who) that moved from the Vikings to Da Bears! reporter asked him why he moved from a SB contender to an also ran.
His answer? It was all about the money, first and foremost. For the extra cash, it was irrelevant to him if the team went 16-0 or 0-16.
And the only thing shocking about it was that he was honest. Usually they just give BS fluff answers, when the underlying reason is the same.
Ceetar
9/14/2010-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
Very few exceptions. Even teh ones that want a ring are really about money, because as they get older they worry about their ‘legacy’ which is code for “the more important I am, the more money people will pay me to do things outside oft he game from charity events to broadcasting or opinion”
stickguy
9/14/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
good point. I never extended the thinking to the after career part.
Ceetar
9/14/2010-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
I’d bet the Mets (and other teams) pay these Alumni to appear at World Series reunions and what not.
stickguy
9/14/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Well, in case Knogs head has not completely exploded yet, something else occured to me before.
looking back over the past 5 years (which to me is a good period of time to plan for and evaluate a team), in this case 2005-2009, the mets were actually one of the more successful teams in MLB.
based on wins, top 2 finishes, in the playoff race right up to the end, and even just 1 playoff appearance. And yes, relevance.
I have not idea how to get at the data (without looking up every team individually!), but overall, very few teams were better over that time frame. hell, even the 2009 team was in or next to first place 1/2 way through the year.
yanks, sox, phils, TB, angels, twins, cards and the rockies are probably the ones better. That leaves about 23 teams that wish they had been as good over the period as the mets.
TRS86
9/14/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Stick you are clearly in denial.
stickguy
9/14/2010-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
you wanna be the royals or pirates instead?
metsfan4decades
9/14/2010-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Um…no thanks.
2006 was fun. Most of 2007 was fun, until the last weeks in Sep. 2008 I basically held my breath the whole year and when it came to Sep didn’t have a good feeling based on 2007.
2009 was over by June and yes, I truly attributed last year and not competing to mostly the injury problems.
2010…now this year was a complete disappointment.
TRS86
9/14/2010-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
Stick that was a joke.
kingman 26
9/14/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
You are too much sometimes man.
TRS86
9/14/2010-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Aren’t we all?
kingman 26
9/14/2010-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
My head doesn’t explode over stuff like this.
But I disagree that the last 6 years have been a success, with the amount of money spent and huge-name expensive players we have brought in.
One playoff series win, and one appearance–dating back ten years now- without a realistic shot at another postseason very soon.
Pedro, Beltran, Johan, KRod, Wagner, Putz, Alou, Delgado and Bay have ALL been paid countless millions to rehab and be injured.
It is time for the annual big-game hunt to end, and to build the way the 69 and 86 teams were—spend a couple of years developing young players and see which of them are for real, and then spend on the vets you need to fill in holes on the roster and bring leadership, i.e., Clendenon in 69 and Keith and Gary and Ojeda in 86.
Yes, I was happy with all of the big signings, but overall almost every one has been way too much money for way too little production.
I for one am ready for 1982–1983 again, and want to see Niese, Gee, Mejia, Pelf, Parnell,Thole, Ike, Murphy, Tejada, and FMart all (or most of them) given a full chance to see what they can be in 2011.
Even Pagan has quickly regressed to what he is–a good but not nearly great, injury-prone player.
Enough. Clear out the deadwood, Ollie and Slappy must be cut, and if Beltran plays in April anything like he has this year, he can platoon with Pagan and FMart.
Time to build from within. Even the 1996–2000 Yanks were anchored by homegrowners Jeter, Bernie, Posada, Mariano, and Pettite.
That’s how to build a consistently successful team, and the way I hope the Mets look at 2011.
TRS86
9/14/2010-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
Pagan is still one of the top 5 CF in the NL according to almost every stat out there. I think he has grown a little tired for sure but still a very good player considering his position and versatility.
wannybackstra
9/14/2010-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
7th in OBP. 9th in SLG. 7th in OPS. 11th in HR. 7th in RBI, 2nd in SB. 3rd in BA. 9th in R. 7th in runs created. 7th in total bases. 5th in Fangraphs WAR.
stickguy
9/14/2010-12:09pm at 12:09 pm (UTC -4)
Thought of a joke (feel free to take it and tweet rusty!)
why did K Rod text his GF 56 times?
to make sure the restraining order vested.
kingman 26
9/14/2010-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
GravediggerHebner
9/14/2010-1:29pm at 1:29 pm (UTC -4)
No offense but I tweeted my own joke instead Stick:
http://twitter.com/GDHebner/status/24494472184
Mr North Jersey
9/14/2010-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Nice read there Rusty.
What of what the writer you quoted is true or untrue I have no idea.
The whispers of Minaya being a puppet while Wilpon is the one pulling the strings has been around for a while now I suppose. How much of it is accurate I can’t say. I would think like many things there may be some truth to them but which moves were Wilpons and which were Minayas who knows.
The way I see it. It’s like I have said before there is enough blame to go around to everyone regarding the failings of this team From ownership on down.
Good read though Rusty.
TRS86
9/14/2010-12:22pm at 12:22 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed on all accounts.
stickguy
9/14/2010-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
there is still a significant difference between jeffy thinking up the moves and doing the negotiations (essentially doing the GM job), and requireing the Gm to run everything past him for approval.
Not saying it is better, just different, and from what I understand, quite common that GMs have to get sign-off on anything major.
what could actually be a bigger problem (than having Jeffy need to rubber stamp) is the rest of the organization. If all the assorted leeches and assistants have to weigh in (ricco, Krivisky, etc.), then it is no wonder not much gets done, and certainly not quickly.
That, and of course, if Jeffy has no confidence in Omar, but is smart enough to know that he is not qualified to make the decisins on his own. Which I guess, leads to the analysis by paralysis issue!
actually, that might not be the worst thing right now, assuming they get a strong GM that they have faith in, maybe they will let him be the arbiter and cut out the committee BS
rustyjr
9/14/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
This former beat writer likes our site lol
rustyjr
9/14/2010-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Comment…
GravediggerHebner
9/14/2010-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
This particular writer may be 100% correct but he is also someone whose work I never particularly enjoyed or found to be useful or relevant to my Mets fandom. After reading a few of his columns upon first discovering them years ago I quickly stopped because I got nothing from them. Just my opinion, glad he likes the site.