This sums up the way I feel as well. While it can’t really hurt us to open discussions on any of our players, the thought of trading either Wright or Reyes for prospects kills me. For that I know that the likelihood of us being relevant will decrease significantly for what could be years or even longer if those prospects don’t work out.
Sep 15
Joe D’s thoughts on trading Reyes and or Wright
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86 comments
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
I’d still consider it. Of course, the price would have to be right. Here’s why. Even before the injury lost season of 2009 and this pretty bad season, which some may attribute to injury, as well, there was evidence that perhaps Jose had peaked.
Since his breakout season his OBPs held steady at in the .350s, a strong but not superior number for a leadoff hitter. Of course, he has above average power for a leadoff hitter and before September comes he’s an excellent run producer for a leadoff hitter. And, of course, he was a superior base stealer and played above average defense.
If his numbers hold steady to 2008′s form, he’s an outstanding player, no doubt. But if you’re convinced he won’t become more than a .350 OBP guy you have to wonder what his value will be as injuries and age continue to take their toll on his speed. He’s coming up to where a long-term deal will have to be reached and you have to be convinced he’s 2008 for the next 3-4 years.
Let me reiterate. I would not set out to deal him away. And I do think he is a dynamic player. I question whether he will be a wise long-term investment. If the right deal comes along — which will have to consist of at least one top 20 type prospect along with other players and prospects — I think it is wise to consider it.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
I just can’t see the Mets trading him for prospects when they have no one near ready to replace him.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-4:40pm at 4:40 pm (UTC -4)
well, tejada isn’t ready but he may be near ready. and in all likelihood you could get a stopgap SS in return, or perhaps something better than a stopgap as part of the deal.
njstuckintx
9/15/2010-2:23pm at 2:23 pm (UTC -4)
I agree. You have to consider a deal if they blow you out of the water. If not, no worries and keep rolling with him.
rustyjr
9/15/2010-2:05pm at 2:05 pm (UTC -4)
I think trading either of them could potentially send this franchise into a tailspin of M Donld Grant proportions
kingman 26
9/15/2010-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
Yes my friend, but after 2009-2010 with our payroll and star power and ultimate results, aren’t we a good portion of the way there already?
rustyjr
9/15/2010-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah but if you get rid of either or both the team will just implode
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
I have said this before, trading stars for prospects rarely works and trading stars for stars rarely happens.
njstuckintx
9/15/2010-2:16pm at 2:16 pm (UTC -4)
Beckett for Hanley worked out well.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:31pm at 2:31 pm (UTC -4)
I am guessing that is an example of stars for prospects and not star for star.
saltygary
9/15/2010-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
Living in Sox land you are partially correct.Hanley was going to be an all out star in Theo’s mind but there was a log jam at short, they needed a pitcher and they also got Lowell out of it.
saltygary
9/15/2010-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
Also his attitude was too much for the Sox, they didnt want to deal with it.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
You can’t be a star before you are an MLB player in my mind. You can be a stud prospect but not an MLB star.
njstuckintx
9/15/2010-2:40pm at 2:40 pm (UTC -4)
correct.
saltygary
9/15/2010-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
I think it was last year that this blog did a 2 part piece about these types of trades? Not many of them produced anything worth while.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-2:14pm at 2:14 pm (UTC -4)
I think the only thing the organization should not do is to brand anyone “untouchable.” They should keep an open mind to any and every way to improve the organization overall that does not significantly detract from the major league club.
Ideally if you do trade a Reyes or a Wright you get back your Grady Sizemore, Brandon Phillips and Cliff Lee. But the chances that you get that as opposed to Carlos Gomez, Phillip Humber and Kevin Mulvey are very slim.
The oft-used phrase “as Reyes goes so go the Mets” is fairly accurate. When he is at his best the team often rolls to easy victory, when he is not the team often loses. As Wanny notes he is not typically at his best in September whether healthy or not.
It would be a huge gamble. But for a franchise that so obviously is misfiring since late 2006 it’s a gamble they might have to take. I hope not. I hope the way to revitalize, invigorate, put over the top this team is to build around Wright & Reyes. But the people currently in charge have not shown a consistent ability to do that. If anything they’ve shown a consistent ability to NOT do it.
One of the biggest concerns I have as I proudly and loudly trumpet for regime change with this club is that often new regimes like to put their stamp on a club. There would be no bigger way for a new regime to stamp this club than to trade Wright and/or Reyes.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
It’s a common theme, but there is no reason to discuss Reyes or Wright.
Why open that door? There is enough to do without entertaining thoughts and discussions (for the GM, not us) about players that 99.9% are staying. If someone comes knocking and offers Joe Mauer or something, sure, open up a dialogue. But to open up the floor to anyone that wants to make an offer is just a waste of time. focus on making the team better for 2011.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-2:24pm at 2:24 pm (UTC -4)
I agree depending on what you mean with “focus on making the team better for 2011.”
I don’t think that should be done at any cost. I don’t think that should be done forsaking the long term for the short term.
Hopefully these aren’t the only two choices (I don’t think they are) but if the choices are make the team better for 2011 or make the team better for 2012-2016 I choose the latter.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
They should never be mutually exclusive. If there’s one piece that’s needed in July, then fine, do it, but in the offseason it’s make the team better for the future, starting with the immediate future.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
You’re right. What I’m trying to communicate here is my personal opinion that I really hope the team does not mortgage 2012-2016 in some attempt at “one last gasp” with current group whose contracts begin to expire after 2011.
I didn’t want that before Johan’s anterior capsule and I really don’t want it now.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
I think the capsule actually helps in that regard. Makes it much less likely they’ll “go for it” in terms of morgaging everyone and buying everything they need.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t express how much I hope you’re right about this.
njstuckintx
9/15/2010-2:18pm at 2:18 pm (UTC -4)
Do other organizations go out and mention all this stuff to the press like the Mets do?
Looking at the White Sox, they’ll trade for or trade away anyone for the good of the organization, yet there doesn’t seem to be all the pomp and “dog & pony shows” that come with this organization. Why even mention names or anything? Just say, we will do what is in the best interest of the team to field a superior product. period. game over. end of story.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
You might have a better chance of answering your own question being in another market. Being in NY I can only really comment on the Mets and the Yankees. I think both teams are masters of the obvious: certain acquisitions by both teams seem to be foregone conclusions long before they happen.
Both teams can also surprise but subjectively it seems to me the Yankees surprises either end up working out better or are at least more easily overcome if they don’t. But before a deep discussion starts on that again I stress it’s just a subjective thought on my part which could be very wrong. It’s based on two specific things: Mets traded for Putz, as I recall no one saw that coming, it was a mostly pleasant surprise initially and went horribly wrong; Yanks signed Teixeira, he was never rumored to be going there and bam he was there and ever since has been a productive cog in their continued reaching of the post season.
njstuckintx
9/15/2010-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
Houston is pretty mum on what they are going to do, who they like etc. You can read the tea leaves on some things, but it’s been more on the trading of players to get young/rebuild (IE, fairly obvious candidates) than it has been who they may/may not be acquiring.
Maybe it’s the scrutiny or something, but you are right. Player A becomes available, will require a large paycheck, noted interest abounds from NY A. or NY B. teams. Put it in the books, that’s what is going to happen. Having a dual degree in economics, it’s those scenarios that drive me crazy. You have to work from a strength (IE, High demand or high supply, etc. etc.) in order to maximize what you are looking to get. Just seems the Mets do the opposite. The one example that jumps out at me was the driving the price up on Ollie by creating more demand… and they were the only ones in on him!!! This team is going to kill my liver, i’m convinced of it.
saltygary
9/15/2010-2:21pm at 2:21 pm (UTC -4)
I like to think that I started the trade Jose BS a couple years ago on FWICG that drove many of you bonkers. This is when there were many other hitters on the Mets that can absorb that kind of production loss in order to maximize return and “break up the core”. Now is a different story.
What Jose does now should be the norm as opposed to prior years and the return you can get for him is not as substantial. He is still a upper tier SS, and that has a lot going for him but he is no longer elite.
Out of all the players on the team that are not making league minimum (as of right now) Wright, Reyes and Bay are probably the only players that will have a roll with the team in two years once payroll clears. So knowing there is technically a lost year before the team IMO will be competitive and begin retooling using the payroll flexibility, trading Reyes should be based on whether you can resign him in the offseason. Instead of picking up that option, if the team can get him in a reasonable contract for multiple years, then keep him. If he has no desire to do this and makes a indication that he wants to test free agency, then sign the option and trade him.
No point paying the guy 11 Million next year if there is a risk of him walking.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-4:45pm at 4:45 pm (UTC -4)
That’s an interesting and reasonable take, Gary. I like it.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-2:27pm at 2:27 pm (UTC -4)
Well, a very incomplete and not very well-thought-out piece.
There have already been rumblings that Jose might test the FA market after next year.
Let’s say he doesn’t—are we going to give him a 5 year, say $80–100 million deal?
He has been hurt/inconsistent/mediocre for two years. He pouted and sucked when batting third, so he is a leadoff hitter, and one two years removed from even a .350+ OBP, which is not great for a leadoff hitter.
I used to very firmly be in the camp of considering the “Core” sacrosanct. Not any more. Wright should be this team’s only untouchable member.
We have sucked for two solid years. We are not on the verge of winning anything. The Phils and Braves have excellent foundations and the Marlins are getting better with yet another fine crop of youngsters.
I am not saying we give Jose away, but do we want to sign him for what he will demand after next year?
It is time to consider anything. What we are doing simply has not worked. On opening day 2011 it will be FIVE YEARS since our last playoff appearance.
saltygary
9/15/2010-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
You had to bring up the pouting. I was on the fence based on salary but now I want him gone. Probably the worst part of the collapses was the damn pouting.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
The worst part was that he just totally did not perform in any September. We know he is immature, however, we have NO one to replace him next year, 2012, 2013, 2014…
saltygary
9/15/2010-2:40pm at 2:40 pm (UTC -4)
It is about 2012 and beyond. If they can re-sign him now at a reasonable cost then absolutely do it. If he just wants his option then he wants to test free agency. No point wasting money on him next season then.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
I still think they can compete in 2011 and I am not willing to write that season off yet because of contract demands for 2012. You can always trade him in July if you are not in it and get most likely as much or more than you could get this off-season.
saltygary
9/15/2010-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
I disagree. If the team is going to do it, they should this offseason. If the other team can get a full year out of Jose, then they can give up more in return.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:53pm at 2:53 pm (UTC -4)
Salty think about how much teams give up for a potential impact player in July. The value is at least even if not more. You also have to factor in the thought that more teams would be looking to add him and more teams could afford to add him.
saltygary
9/15/2010-3:00pm at 3:00 pm (UTC -4)
This has actually not been the case for the last couple years due to payroll issues with most teams.
TRS86
9/15/2010-3:05pm at 3:05 pm (UTC -4)
Really? Looked to me like the hauls for some of these guys have been significant. Also how many Reyes’ type players are available at the deadline? If anything the payroll issue is helped by the fact they only have to pay half a year’s salary.
What has hurt those types of deals is that teams looking to deal are usually years away from competing and would rather take the picks.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-4:47pm at 4:47 pm (UTC -4)
Well this year alone Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt were traded midseason. I’d say they qualify as players of or better than Reyes’s quality.
TRS86
9/15/2010-8:23pm at 8:23 pm (UTC -4)
While true, I was referring to offensive players. Gotta any of those…. LOL.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
We have no one likely to replace his current offensive production I agree. We already have someone to replace his defense, in fact that someone turned some rather nifty double-plays with Jose last night.
If we are going to look at trading Wright or Reyes from the perspective of “we have no one to replace” one or the other the one we have no one to replace is Wright, not Reyes IMO. Pagan conceivably replaces Reyes as leadoff hitter, Tejada replaces Reyes as above average defensive shortstop.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
“Pagan conceivably replaces Reyes as leadoff hitter, Tejada replaces Reyes as above average defensive shortstop.”
+ Millions.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:55pm at 2:55 pm (UTC -4)
Sure you could trade Wright and have Murphy/Evans/Duda play 3B as well. They would suffer defensively but all would most likely be better than Tejada offensively.
We also don’t know, as Kingman pointed out, that Pagan can continue his success either.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
Of course we don’t know it. We don’t “know” anything. We have to gather information and make informed decisions based on that.
If Murphy/Evans/Duda played 3B you have likely (IMO) decreased both the offensive and defensive production of the 3B position plus you have created a hole at whatever batting order spot you had Wright in previously – none of those guys can be expected (IMO) to give you what Wright has in the 3rd/4th/5th spots in the lineup. So IMO it’s lose/lose defensively and offensively depending on what you get back for Wright.
Whereas you trade Reyes, you have defense on par to his already on hand in Tejada and you already have a guy in Pagan who, more so than Duda/Evans/Murphy have shown they can contribute at the MLB level for what Wright provides, has shown he may be able to provide you with the leadoff batter.
He hasn’t shown it for certain, no, but the point is in making a trade like this it’s always a gamble and if it’s my money I’m gambling on Tejada/Pagan to allow me to ship off Reyes for improvement elsewhere more than I’m gambling on Murphy/Evans/Duda to allow me to ship of Wright.
TRS86
9/15/2010-3:10pm at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
I just can’t gamble on either unless they are getting back proven players in return.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-3:21pm at 3:21 pm (UTC -4)
That’s fair. Again I’m not here endorsing either guy be traded and my preference is they stay and are better surrounded.
My point here is if one or the other is to be traded I think the team is better prepared for life without Reyes than it is life without Wright based specifically on organizational depth, by that I mean specifically based on cost-effective person or persons already on hand who have shown even the chance of replacing what Wright or Reyes offer to the club as both offensive and defensive performers.
The combo of Tejada & Pagan have a better shot at filling the loss of what Reyes offers better than anyone I’m aware of under club control at reasonable cost has of filling the loss of Wright.
TRS86
9/15/2010-3:30pm at 3:30 pm (UTC -4)
I do agree with the likelihood but think that it’s a 1% chance you can replace Wright’s production and a 3% chance those 2 can replace Reyes’.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-4:49pm at 4:49 pm (UTC -4)
last i knew murphy and evans were moved off of 3b in the early minors and were terrible at it. duda has never played 3b to my knowledge.
not even remotely the reasonable solution that tejada could be at SS.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!
I have followed Jose since the low minors, but after the last two years–and especially with Jose’s attitude–I am ready for a change anywhere.
Everything else aside—should a guy with his injury history be given the kind of huge long-term deal he will clearly ask for after next year?
After watching prolonged DL time for Pedro, Beltran, Alou, Delgado, Wagner, Putz, JJ, Johan, and Bay, for me the answer is clearly no.
IF we can get at least one serious top notch prospect and a couple more promising kids, do it and do it now, and add a few more kids to the intriguing mix of youngsters we already have.
We can be like the Marlins next year, but after 2011, instead of selling off, loads of dough comes off the books and we can be a player in the FA/trade market (just like the Phils!!) and be ready for a serious run in 2012.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
Who plays SS and leads off for that 2012 team?
saltygary
9/15/2010-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
2012 SS FA:
Jason Bartlett (32)
Yuniesky Betancourt (30) – $6MM club option with a $2MM buyout
Ronny Cedeno (29)
Rafael Furcal (34) – $12MM club/vesting option
J.J. Hardy (29)
John McDonald (37)
Augie Ojeda (37)
Jimmy Rollins (33)
Ramon Santiago (32)
Marco Scutaro (36) – $6MM club option/$3MM player option with a $1.5MM buyout
Jack Wilson (34)
2011 SS FA:
Geoff Blum (38) – $1.65MM mutual option
Orlando Cabrera (36) – $4MM mutual option with a $500K-$1MM buyout
Juan Castro (39)
Craig Counsell (40)
Alex Gonzalez (33) – $2.5MM club option
Cristian Guzman (33)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (35)
Omar Infante (29) – $2.5MM club option with a $250K buyout
Cesar Izturis (31)
Derek Jeter (37)
Julio Lugo (35)
Jhonny Peralta (29) – $7MM club option with a $250K buyout
Nick Punto (33) – $5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Edgar Renteria (35) – $10.5MM club option with a $500K buyout
Jose Reyes (28) – $11MM club option with a $500K buyout
Miguel Tejada (37)
Juan Uribe (31)
Omar Vizquel (
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
And how many of the decent 2012FA actually make it to FA? And then how many of them will actually be better or significantly cheaper than Reyes?
I count maybe 2 on the entire list that I would want near the Mets for SS.
saltygary
9/15/2010-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
And they are all older.
saltygary
9/15/2010-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
They all are available and non of them are as good. It’s all about taking that salary and applying it best. Is it better to sign a stronger OF and get a mid level SS for 3 mil a season? I would hope that Reyes doesn’t cost more than 10 million a year, but he can probably fetch it IE Ollie…
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
Lets think about this a little though. We have plenty of OF prospects and really no SS prospects unless you count Tejada.
You also have to factor in defense at a very important defensive position.
What really good OF are you getting for 10M?
Lets say you could get Werth (which you could not and might not want to anyway). Would Werth and Tejada be better than Reyes and Beltran/Pagan?
saltygary
9/15/2010-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
I just threw out the position OF without taking the time to clearly evaluate which position can the team fill with maximum return on cost.
The cost for the level of production on a top tier SS is much more than paying for that same production at OF or 1B or 3rd simply because its Hanley, Reyes and everyone else. Is it worth the money? My feeling is only if you can get a long term deal in place now. I packed it in for next season due to payroll constraints and for me its not worth 11 million for a farewell tour.
TRS86
9/15/2010-3:04pm at 3:04 pm (UTC -4)
You get much more than a farewell tour for 2011. You have to factor in a lot of things. You have to assume they would spend that money for 2011 else there would be a mutiny. Thus you are still wasting 10M for 2011. You also have to factor in tickets sold because I still believe he is a fan draw. You also have to factor in that even if you believe that the return is greater this off-season it can’t be significantly more with Reyes having a down year than you would get at the deadline if he rebounds in 2011. Now factor that in with the amount of tickets you get for that half year of Reyes.
Again, I just can’t see doing it unless you get mlb ready or current mlb players.
saltygary
9/15/2010-3:12pm at 3:12 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t think there would be mutiny if there was a plan sold to the fanbase. If ownership came out and said we are cleaning house on coaches and Omar is reassigned and discuss how the goal is to reduce payroll to provide more flexibility, fans would buy in. ’96-’97 wasn’t too long ago and the fanbase was excited. It was a couple years after the purge and some of the young guys like Alfonzo were generating buzz. They also had the payroll to grab Olerud and Baerga. If fans see this with Ike, Niese and Meija next year and then a couple decent FA come in at 2012 then it is full steam ahead.
TRS86
9/15/2010-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
So you honestly think the Mets could go out and trade Reyes this off-season, pocket the money and make no real aquisitions this off-season and not lose a tremendous amount in ticket sales all while rebuilding their team and public image?
I just don’t see it.
saltygary
9/15/2010-3:24pm at 3:24 pm (UTC -4)
I absolutely do.Ticket sales are already lost and the only way to get them back is to show a plan and stick with it. Signing a free agent or a new couch is only a small blip and is forgotten quickly. Those moves will not bring on new ticket packages.
If they take in prospects they dont need to spend that money that year. BUT they have to the next year and do it responsibly. Ticket sales will not increase until a quality product hits the field not a quality player. Getting a quality product probably wont happen until starting in 2011
saltygary
9/15/2010-3:25pm at 3:25 pm (UTC -4)
meant 2012…
kingman 26
9/15/2010-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
Barring serious other moves, Pagan can lead off and be just fine.
Tejada can play SS and bat 8th, and either Murph or Gritty McH can play 2B.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:46pm at 2:46 pm (UTC -4)
And that will make the team better?
Obviously not for 2011 but even for 2012-2014?
We don’t know if Tejada can hit over .225 nor if Murphy can play 2B.
njstuckintx
9/15/2010-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
And he needs a haircut.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
You know, I am seriously not one to judge on appearances, and on others it might not look bad, but since you mentioned it first, Jose dancing around with that hair just complete the picture of a jackass.
Sorry.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
I thought the piece was good and brings up some good questions. Go figure we disagree. LOL.
As for trading Reyes, I am not saying we should not consider it. I am saying that I can’t see any way that it helps the team anytime in the near future. Thus if that is the case then what is the purpose? To help the Mets in 2014?
kingman 26
9/15/2010-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, we actually agree on plenty, and we both know it!
But no, it can improve the team in 2012, with the youngsters we can get, and the money we can spend elsewhere.
Is Jose the best use of the maybe $100 million we will have to invest in him? How can Joe not even mention that? Silly.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
Why are we that concerned with what Jose MIGHT demand in 2012? If we are out of it this July then trade him then. If not then keep him and offer arbitration. Take the 2 first round pics and move on.
How can trading Reyes this off-season improve us for 2011, 2012 or really a few years after that?
We are not getting a stud prospect that is MLB ready for Reyes. It may take years and that prospect may never even approach Reyes’ numbers.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
I do agree with a comment I read on THE blog.
“The roof is leaking and now you want to tear up the floor. Only guess what, there’s no guarantee your contractor makes things better. In fact, we just might end up with a crappy floor – and a leaky roof.”
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
You might but if the roof is leaking the floor is already likely damaged. Ideally you fix both as opposed to being immobilized by fear that you might make the floor worse. Why would anyone hire a contractor that would worsen the floor? The same contractor that might eff up the floor is just as capable of effing up the ceiling.
Worst. Analogy. Ever. And all I did was continue it, it already sucked.
TRS86
9/15/2010-2:56pm at 2:56 pm (UTC -4)
But that is implying that there is something wrong with Wright and Reyes instead of the roof. I guess if you feel that there is something drastically wrong with Wright and Reyes you should just sell the house and move to another city.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-3:12pm at 3:12 pm (UTC -4)
In this context there IS something wrong with Wright and Reyes. That could be that they are not Evan Longoria and Troy Tulowitzki, or it could be that they are not Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter, or insert whatever strong foundational players you choose at their positions around the league.
The something wrong with Wright and Reyes is they are being asked to be greater than they are. The house being built on them as the foundation they can’t hold up, they’re not strong enough.
TRS86
9/15/2010-3:16pm at 3:16 pm (UTC -4)
I guess we just differ there. I still believe that you can build around those 2.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-3:27pm at 3:27 pm (UTC -4)
There aren’t any two players in baseball that can solely win a championship, nor are there any two players in baseball that a team can’t win with if they’re on the roster.
There is truth to things like ‘intangibles’ and ‘clubhouse chemistry’ but it accounts for so little that it’s not something you ever consider. Maybe in a backup MI or a backup Catcher, as the actual baseball you rely on them for is so little that the other stuff may be worthwhile.
Reyes and Wright are above average (well above) baseball players. And especially with Reyes, getting rid of them ONLY makes your team worse. Improve elsewhere. It can be done, budget, or no budget.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-3:28pm at 3:28 pm (UTC -4)
I still believe they can be built around too. I just think 2 things: 1, it’s a more difficult task because they are not pillars in the same way that an Albert Pujols or his ilk are; and 2, the Mets organization has not demonstrated despite having repeated opportunities that they are capable of building properly on them as a foundation.
TRS86
9/15/2010-3:32pm at 3:32 pm (UTC -4)
That is correct. I think they had enough talent in 2007 and 2008 but did not perform. 2009 we will never know and 2010 is certainly a mystery.
Thing is these two are already proven yet still young.
saltygary
9/15/2010-3:26pm at 3:26 pm (UTC -4)
2011′s slogan: “Wright the Ship”!
TRS86
9/15/2010-3:27pm at 3:27 pm (UTC -4)
I was going to make another post on this, maybe I still will maybe not.
However, lets look at what we REALLY can expect to get for Reyes. While this mystery GM said “one really good prospect, one solid prospect, and one or two medium-range prospects” there is no way you get 3-4 useful prospects including one really good prospect for one year of Reyes. Not with Reyes’ health concerns, contract issues, poor performance etc.
In my mind you get one decent prospect and some filler. You also have to factor in what teams would even be looking to add Reyes for what could be only one year.
Who would be looking to upgrade SS?
No one in NL East would trade for him nor would the Mets send him there.
NL Central: Who is close enough to think they could take the division in 2011 and needs a SS?
Cinncy will need a SS most likely but would they be in position to trade a top prospect and pay 10M for Reyes for one year?
Cards will need a SS but he sticks out badly on that team and I can’t see them paying him 10M either.
No other team really has a shot in that division
West:
Padres: No way they trade for Reyes with only one year on his contract at 10M.
Giants: Can get similar production from Uribe for much less money.
AL
East:
Redsox and that’s about it. I think that’s your best match-up for Beltran or Reyes.
Central:
Twins: Not very Twin like to trade a top prospect and pay 10M for a one year player.
West:
Angels: Could certainly use the upgrade offensively and have some MLB guys that I would consider if it could be worked out.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
Yankees would be thrilled to get him AND would pay him. Shift Jeter to third, A-Rod to DH. or something.
TRS86
9/15/2010-3:42pm at 3:42 pm (UTC -4)
That’s not realistic at all. No way are the Yanks moving Jeter, benching Arod and making a huge deal with the Mets all in the same off-season.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-3:48pm at 3:48 pm (UTC -4)
I’d argue moving Reyes is not realistic, period.
A “winning first”, progressive team would do it. Moving the aging Jeter from a position he’s not managing well? Utilize the DH by putting your gimpy highly paid slugger guy there? All while getting a young, explosive SS taht can field the position well for a decade?
Let’s make it worthwhile too. How about this. Reyes for Cano, move Jeter to 2B.
(I wouldn’t do this in a heartbeat, but we’re just playing here..)
TRS86
9/15/2010-3:33pm at 3:33 pm (UTC -4)
So after looking at these groups potential partners:
Cincy, Cards, Giants, RSox, Twins, Angels.
I think IF you could get something built around Cain or E. Santana I would jump on it. Even if it cost you a prospect, I just don’t know if those guys would be available for Reyes.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-3:51pm at 3:51 pm (UTC -4)
My initial reaction is the Giants would not be parting with Cain. They’ve only had 6 pitchers make more than 1 start for them this season and 5 are under contract for next year I don’t see depth on hand that would make me believe they’d consider it.
Obviously they could make other move(s) but on the surface I don’t see it. I see them just keeping Cain/Lincecum/Sanchez/Zito/Bumgarner as their rotation, especially if they make the post season with them this year.
TRS86
9/15/2010-4:06pm at 4:06 pm (UTC -4)
I agree and as I said they can get Reyes like production from Uribe at half the cost while keeping Cain.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-4:34pm at 4:34 pm (UTC -4)
I’m late to this party and don’t have time right now to read all comments – but I will.
My opinion:
Trading Wright – uh, no.
Trading Reyes? – If we try to trade Reyes this off season I don’t think we’re going to get the player and or stud prospect that his pre 2009 form would warrent. Teams are going to look at his lost 2009 and his injuries from 2010 and not give back what we’d like to get. In other words, I think right now Reyes is worth more to us then what we’d get in return.
Mr North Jersey
9/15/2010-4:38pm at 4:38 pm (UTC -4)
I understand not wanting to trade a player like Wright and that is something the team should not set out to do nor would I want them to do but I would say just try and keep an open mind to all the possibilities.
Prismo
9/15/2010-5:51pm at 5:51 pm (UTC -4)
If Tejada is starting at either 2b or SS to start next season, this team already has a HUGE hole in the lineup. Straight up, he can’t hit.
Playing any young guy in your organization isn’t a “youth movement” – the player actually has to have some TALENT. I don’t see Tejada developing into anything more than a backup infielder.
asod75
9/15/2010-8:49pm at 8:49 pm (UTC -4)
I agree I really don’t want to see Tejada starting next season, but I’m not so sure he won’t be a serviceable hitter one day, not a star but decent. Remember, he’s only 20 years old and for some reason, the Mets (especially when Bernazard was there) rush their young guys through the system. Really, he should have been at AA this season. The jury is still out on him, but I don’t think he’s been done any favors by being rushed.