First off I want to give a tip of my hat to both R.A Dickey for pitching one hell of a game last night. Yes it was against the Pirates – bottom feeders of the N.L. Central. But hey at this point of the season in order to finish the year at .500 every win counts . Kudos also go out to the often maligned Carlos Beltran for driving in three of the Mets nine runs . After all the name calling and booing he has received of late he could have just mailed the rest of the season in , but he looks like he is playing all out .
Okay now that the pleasantries have been dispensed, if I could sum this season up in a movie, it would be Spinal Tap. Think about it Just like in the movie the Mets start off their season on a positive note ( Johan Santana getting the win on Opening Day) where as Spinal Tap are doing their first show in the United States in years. And as we all know it went with the exception of a few hot streaks downhill from there. Both entities suffered from poor management – Jerry Manuel for the Mets Ian Faith for the Tap. Both groups got lousy support from their bosses – Fred and Jeff Wilpon for the Mets , Record company owner Sir Denis Eton-Hogg for Spinal Tap. And in the end both groups are reduced to playing in front of what seems to be a few hundred people ( okay , okay a few thousand for the Mets – I am allowed a little artistic liberty !)The only difference is that the Mets didn’t have second billing to a puppet show , and instead of a drummer exploding the Mets had Francisco Rodriguez !
Lets face the facts . This team is not as bad as last year, it’s not as bad as the Art Howe era nor are they as dreadful as the death-roll that was the late ’70′s – early ’80′s. No this team has many talented players, but they are surrounded by mediocrity ! This is a team that if properly motivated could have won upwards of 90 games in my opinion. But unfortunately when the General Manager and ownership only one impact player this off-season (Bay) and insulates the talent with subpar additions (Jacobs, Matthews Jr.Tatis etc) it is no wonder why the Mets are in the position that they are now.
That’s why Fred and Jeff Wilpon have to reevaluate the way this team is run – from the front office to the day to day field operations to how they develop their own talent because it is becoming more and more obvious that they have once again become the butt of many a joke . And when you see Citi Field as empty as it has been the past few nights – It is not funny at all !!!
And with that said…. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Today would have been the7 3rd birthday for Mets utility-man, Charley Smith (1937) .He played for the Mets from ’64-’65.
Brooklyn’s own John Pacella is 54 (1956).
Japanese pitching import, Satoru Komiyama is 45 (1965).
Middle reliever for the ’91 team,Doug Simons is 44 (1966).
Reserve infielder for the Mets in ’96 and ’97, Jason Hardtke is 39 (1971) .
New York Mets traded minor league pitchers,Shane Young and Jeff Richardson to the California Angels for John ” The Candy Man” Candelaria on September 15, 1987. Unfortunately Candeleria was not effective in his brief stint with the Mets and was gone shortly after the season ended.
Mo Vaughn is the only reason that The Catch of the Day is still open these days !
And remember there are just Mets tragic number is 5 and their magic number is 17 . That’s right 17 more games until Jerry Manuel is relieved of his duties as Mets manager !
110 comments
Mr North Jersey
9/15/2010-8:39am at 8:39 am (UTC -4)
“Lets face the facts . This team is not as bad as last year”
You know what I completely forgot. You are absolutely correct.
I want to congratulate the Mets on finally surpassing last seasons win total last night by winning their 71st game of the season.
“BIG ROUND OF APPLAUSE”
rustyjr
9/15/2010-8:52am at 8:52 am (UTC -4)
Do I detect some sarcasm ? And btw we won number 72 last night – Woooo Hooo !!
Mr North Jersey
9/15/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
LoL then I really really forgot.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know why I’m surprised by this season – as we apparently will only manage a handful more wins than last season – but I still am. Still surprised the offense was the problem and not the pitching.
Even with KRod out for the season, pitching still wasn’t the problem. We were out of it by the time KRod went down but still. Maybe the fact that we only win about one game every other day, and we haven’t actually needed a closer as much, but I’m not sure if we were still in this race if the loss of KRod would have sealed our fate much like ’08 did with the loss of Wagner.
Here’s to 2011 and the fresh start – from top to bottom – we’re all hoping will take place.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-8:52am at 8:52 am (UTC -4)
Injuries, bad luck and bad bench players were the culprits. again.
But we’ll probably win two handfuls more games than last season when it’s done.
TRS86
9/15/2010-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
Poor management and terrible hitting.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
I’m tired of beating the ‘poor management’ thing. i feel like K-Rod.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
injuries were to blame? don’t tell that to the Phillies.
I think it is fair – and obvious – to say that the Mets just aren’t good enough.
The fact that Jeff Francouer, Luis Castillo and Rod Barajas all sucked big time had nothing to do with injuries or bad luck. The fact that three regulars were useless meant that the team could not survive the ups and downs of a rookie at 1B, relatively down seasons from its two stars and the same types of injuries every other team experiences.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
You know, if the Mets hadn’t been injured the Phillies injuries may have sunk them.
My point all season was that the fringe/bench players sucked. Carter, Catalanotto, GMJ way too long, Jacobs, Tatis..
and most of those were because of injuries to Beltran and Murphy. The Phillies somehow got super-par performance out of guys like Valdez, someone that helped sink the Mets in 2009. hitting coach comparisons? Or maybe it’s just that Rollins sucks so there wasn’t as much drop off and Utley and Howard really weren’t out that long.
Castillo had everything to do with the bone bruise, and Murphy’s injury got us Ike, who’s good but was still a rookie and Murphyesque through the summer when Murphy may have an improved year. Bay underperformed and then got injured before he could wake up, Beltran out way too long. Reyes had the oblique mismanged into twice as many games missed and had the slow start due to the flukey thyroid.
I won’t even mention Maine’s injury that was never fixed by the docs.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
On that Maine injury, you guys really should read Joe Janish’s take on mechanics as a whole for our young pitchers.
If he’s right, this does not bode well…..
http://www.metstoday.com/5128/pitching-mechanics/is-jenrry-mejia-a-good-or-bad-example-of-mets-minor-league-system/
Ceetar
9/15/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
I’ll read it. (Hey, i’ve had “dinner” with the guy, I should read it right?) But this is why i miss Rick Peterson in ways.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
wow – really? Nice…
Yeah, this is not the first article I’ve read that gives praise to Peterson on his thought process in relation to young pitchers.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
yeah, me, him, Shannon of Metspolice, and Kerel Cooper of ontheblack ate in the Caesar’s club way back when we were on the field for the blogger thing. This was shortly after we lost Rusty in the rotunda somewhere.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
the phillies are 85-61, well on their way to another 90+ win season. I fail to see how they MIGHT have succumbed to their injuries IF the Mets had not been injured. Pure conjecture and absolutely contradicted by the fact that the Phillies are unfazed by their injuries.
Wilson Valdez has actually been worse for the Phils than for the Mets, by the way: .247 .287 .351 v. .256 .326 .337 for the Mets. But don’t let facts get in the way of making excuses for the Mets not being good enough.
The Phils have been without Utley, Rollins and Howard at various points this season. And Utley has underperformed. Victorino has underperformed. But when they needed to, guys like Ruiz and Werth and even Ibanez stepped up. Polanco has been understated but excellent.
So boo-hoo that the Mets lost Beltran and Bay. Where were Frenchy, Barajas and Castillo when we needed them to step up? Why haven’t Reyes and Wright stepped up their games to carry their team when needed? Instead they’re turning in below average performances.
The simple answer is that the Mets just aren’t good enough. No matter what excuses you want to make, the reality of the situation is that the Phils are better than the Mets and most likely will continue to be for the foreseeable future.
njstuckintx
9/15/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Wanny, have you ever busted out a “I want the truth / YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH” type interaction working the courtroom? I don’t think Jack N. would stand a chance against you.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
i thought jack gave it up too easily. but it’s always fun to have a witness whose buttons can be pushed.
as memorable as that line was — and as well as it was acted — it ruined the movie in some ways because of its prematurity.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
These are good points, in many ways.
But what I really want to know is why young guys like Wright and Reyes who had good early years and so much potential did tank out when we needed them to step it up?
Why did Bay have an under performing season this year before he got hurt?
Barajas, Francoeur, Castillo, Jacobs, GMJ, Cat were all what they advertised to be. No surprise there.
I still contend that some of this is an organizational problem as a whole. Clean-House-Now.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
the dropoff from Reyes-Valdez was what I was talking about. big difference. Also, as it goes this year, Valdez versus Cora/Tejada that we had to play because of injuries.
Castillo got injured, so no stepping up there. The bone bruise obviously inhibited him, and that sucks , because a .350+ OBP would’ve really helped when this team was failing to get on base at all. Never mind that Manuel wanted to play Cora 30% of the time anyway.
Reyes _did_ step up, then the oblique and the mismanagement that prevented it from healing. Wright hasn’t had a great year, but it’s not him taht needed to ‘step up’. No one’s expecting him to suddenly have to be Pujols. But yeah, you made my point. Werth stepped up and Polanco was better than expected. Ruiz did a good job, which surprised me. The Mets promoted Thole way too late after Barajas sucked, didn’t bench Frenchy soon enough and at least try Nick Evans or Carter or Feliciano, who may not be All-Stars but hey, guys step up sometimes.
my if the Mets were better comment merely meant that if the Mets had been playing competitively, they ‘probably’ would’ve beaten the Phillies 2-3 more times and you never know how things shake out. It didn’t happen, mainly for the reasons outlined above.
but the two teams are not “lightyears” apart. Baseball is a game of small adjustments that have big impacts, and the Mets can be right there if they find the right ones, but currently the group makingthese decisions does not seem to be doing that.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
my oh my. reyes hasn’t stepped anything up. his obp has been in the 3 teens and 20s all season. it’s high point was .333 on june 25 and when his oblique was injured in late august it was .323. It is now .325. How did the oblique derail him from stepping up?
In any event, the Mets were well out of it by the time his oblique injury occurred in late August.
Through April, May and the beginning of June his OBP barely even cracked .300.
No more excuses please.
TRS86
9/15/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
I will allow Reyes a slight pass because he has proven when healthy that he is not the .320′s OBP guy anymore. However, this entire season has been a poor one whether due to thyroid conditions, leg injuries, oblique injuries, hitting coaches, immaturity… and any other excuses. Hopefully all of those can be behind him next season and he can return to the Reyes we learned to love.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Reyes returning to the 2006–2008 Reyes would probably be the single best thing that could happen in 2011.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
You’re both right.
But the combination of excuses Reyes has for this season (and the bottom line is really that the team needed him to overcome them to have a chance this season) all provide good reason to at least entertain the thought of moving him for the RIGHT deal.
He’s no longer an untouchable in my mind.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
And I agree with Wanny 100%.
The thing about petulantly refusing to concentrate 100% was outrageous.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Nice to have you here today Wanny.
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Kingman I can’t remember reading where he said he refused to concentrate. Wouldn’t that be concentrating on not concentrating?
As for trading Reyes, while I am open to the discussion I can’t see at this point gaining enough benefit from the trade to off-set the loss.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
TRS it was a huge deal a month or so ago when Reyes openly stated that he simply cannot focus 100% on every pitch when in the field, as an excuse for his lesser fielding this year and said this is simply the way he has played since he was a kid.
Now perhaps other players feel the same way, but what does it say about his intelligence and/or arrogance that he would actually say this?
During another injury-filled, subpar year…
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
thanks, kong. “working” from home today with a little bit of a cold.
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
I can agree it was a stupid comment and that Reyes is immature. What I don’t agree with is that is grounds for trading him or writing him off as a guy we can depend on.
I am open to trading him I just can’t see how we get back enough to off-set the loss.
As for all of this though, I still can’t see how he refuses to concentrate. I don’t think he is being defiant he just has issues of concentration. I see it every day.
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
You may not get this analogy but I will throw that out there anyway.
Why does a good free-throw shooter miss free-throws in pressure situations?
He loses concentration.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
The two teams are more than light years apart.
They are in different leagues.
To paraphrase Jules Winnfield, the Mets and Phils “ain’t in the same f***ing ball park…ain’t the same league….ain’t even the same f***ing sport.”
Every year the Phils overcome their problems, acquire another really good pitcher and make the postseason. Four straight postseasons barring a collapse, and with Roy/Roy/Hamels? Get ready for another Philllie pennant.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
And given that rotation and the likelihood of Johan’s extended absence next season, I’m not sure the Mets could even realistically target the division next season.
I’m not sure what moves they could make to compete with that rotation even if they open the wallets and spend foolishly.
Hopefully, Omar’s replacement has an eye toward the future and understands the reality of what lies in the near future. In other words, don’t trade the kids for a fantasy 2011 season. If you are to trade them it has to be something like the Angels deal for Dan Haren this year.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Play the kids in 2011, wait for the bad contracts to come off the books, see which kids can play, and then wait for 2012 to spend on filling in the spots which the kids do not look like they can fill in 2012.
Not saying forget 2011, as maybe the kids will all surprise us, and then we can make an in-season move.
But, as I have said, EVERY one of Omar’s big money FAs/trades has resulted in players being paid zillions to spend months or years rehabbing (Delgado, Pedro, Beltran, Wagner, KRod, Alou, Putz, Johan, Bay–every one). Enough. It is 1982-1983, we have a bunch of kids. Let them play in 2011 for better or worse, and reevaluate after getting an idea of how good they all are.
THEN fill in the gaps rather than just going out and spending a fortune on another aging player.
Prismo
9/15/2010-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
The Phillies’ team should not affect the Mets too much. I’m not sure, but I think the Mets play the Phillies 12 times each season (2 away series, 2 home series?). That’s only 7% of their season. The other 93% is against teams that have nothing to do with the Phillies.
As it goes every season, if you win over 90 games, you usually make the playoffs. That should be the goal, not focusing on a team that the Mets can’t affect 93% of the season.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
18 times.
Prismo
9/15/2010-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
Thank you Kingman. Okay, 11%!
Point still holds that the Mets or our fans shouldn’t focus on the Phillies when we’re not playing them, but just on winning against whatever team we’re up against.
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, you can have a losing record against the top 3 teams in your division and still win the division.
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
As for our chances to win the division, they were hurt by Johan tremendously and a lot will depend on what they do this off-season. We do have to remember that the Phillies are getting old however and have maxed out their payroll. Hopefully those injuries start to catch up with them.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
Further evidence to support Prismo: The Mets are 7-8 so far with 3 games left each against Atlanta, Philadelphia & Washington. The Mets could have a winning record against all those teams at the end of the season and still finish in third place.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Thanks for injecting some badly needed reality Counselor.
The Mets are not good enough and have not been for four straight years.
The Phils are better, tougher, well-managed, and have a GM who goes out and gets great pitcher after great pitcher.
Boo hoo is right.
And as MF4D says below, clean house. Wright and maybe Pelf and maybe a few of the kids (Ike? Niese? Thole?) are the only untouchables. And ultimately, Wright might be the ONLY untouchable.
This team is soft, weak, and very comfortable with underachieving.
And the 2010 team is better than the 2009 team? As Derrick Coleman once said, whoop-de-damn-do.
TRS86
9/15/2010-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Talk about a Beltran like player…. Derrick Coleman.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Excellent comparison.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
Nah—as a lifelong Net fan, Coleman had his moments and if he had serious drive and determination he could have been a perennial MVP candidate, but Beltran is better.
Especially off the field.
Coleman could do everything—hit 3s, move to the basket, rebound, block shots, even pass. He could have been a more athletic Charles Barkley with a different mindset.
TRS86
9/15/2010-10:52am at 10:52 am (UTC -4)
But if you think of Beltran at his peak he should have been an MVP guy. Speed, defense, base stealing, HR, position played…. Both of these guys were also misjudged. They did not look gritty and had so much natural talent it did not look like they were always hustling because they made the hard play look easy.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, but Coleman was a jerk; Beltran isn’t.
Coleman would do things like refuse to wear a suit on road trips and give the GM a blank check to fine him. He really did that.
Prismo
9/15/2010-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
But Kingman, Beltran didn’t go on the team trip to the hospital!!!!!!
#sarcasm
rustyjr
9/15/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Go stand behind the riser whir you play Stonehenge why don’t you lol
kingman 26
9/15/2010-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
“No one knows who they were or what they were doing.”
“…a Stonehedge in danger of being trodden on by a dwarf!”
The Spinal Tap thing was excellent Rusty—you are doing some really amazing work lately my friend–seriously.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
Many good points but Ugh…not the ‘soft’ vs. ‘tough’ argument again. For the most part, I just can’t buy that.
May I never hear ‘this team doesn’t have heart’ again….
The Phillies had close to a team wide slump mid May-mid June. Charlie was calling them out, the GM was calling them out, he was changing the lineup every other day and nothing was working. Charlie accused them of having that ‘we’ll turn it on late’ mentality – to me implying they were being complacent at the time.
Fans were booing everyone and some gave up on the season right there and then.
This was a time in between some injuries, like Howard and Victorino. Missing Rollins at the plate was not a big deal b/c his offense wasn’t helping anyway. Ibanez looked done, Werth was having a down year as was Victorino then.
Hamels had a shaky start and they didn’t have Oswalt. Blanton was tanking and Schneider was/is as we all know, terrible.
I have no idea why/how they finally game out of that slump. Seems to be the same funk the Braves find themselves in right now.
None of this has anything to do with the Mets season though. The Mets just didn’t have enough talent to get it done. Period. I’m still pointing to the architect of this team, more than than the players. The off field antics and the media jumping on the band wagon making it an all out circus wide atmosphere didn’t help either.
Bottom line is I believe the Mets have no one to blame but themselves right now.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Sorry my friend who I truly like and respect.
The Phils have more toughness and heart and Orlando-Hudson-esque grit in their toenail clippings than we do our our entire roster.
They regroup and rebound; we fold like a cheap tent and spend another 4 weeks on the DL.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Derrick Coleman would have gone, but wearing shorts and sandals.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
Okay, favorite Android apps: go! (my new Fascinate!)
njstuckintx
9/15/2010-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
How much more black could these past 2 (or 4) seasons be? None. None more black.
I do agree that this team is not as bad as it was last year. But that’s like saying HIV isn’t as bad as full blown AIDS or something equally as bad. Comparing a rotten apple to a more rotten apple and saying “hey, at least my apple isn’t as rotten as that one” is a very small solace for sure.
The future, I still maintain, looks bright. Santana’s injury is huge. I think it’s bigger than we can fathom at the moment, since we are already into shell shock and wait for the hot stove season. We’ll end up seeing next year to be much the same as this year if they don’t get 2 SPs (now that Santana is down). I really hope that Krod comes back as super Krod, or his contract gets voided somehow and he’s kicked to the curb, freeing up salary for a Lilly, De la Rosa or even a Vazquez (who doesn’t make me feel good, but if he can eat innings as a 4th starter, i’ll take it). That combined with a trade (use some of those prospects) and a flyer on a high risk/reward tyep could bring the SP rotation to passable to decent. Then, if/and/or when the Johan Cavalry come riding into town…
Also, if you get the chance to rent/own the Spinal Tap DVD, watch the movie with the commentary on. The actors do the commentary in character. I like it actually better than the original movie.
You’re a naughty one, Saucy Jack!
Ceetar
9/15/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
I’ll netflix Spinal Tap then maybe, sounds cool. I watched the movie the first time in English class in high school.
njstuckintx
9/15/2010-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
I’m a fan of all those mockumentaries. Waiting for Guffman may be the best of them all, but spinal tap holds a special place in my heart. I mean, who else would have given us “Hello Cleveland!”?
kingman 26
9/15/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Oh man, I don’t know—I love them all, but Mighty Wind was just SO realistic…as a musician, I think even moreso than Spinal Tap.
By the end of the movie I had to convince myself that Eugene Levy’s character wasn’t really a crazy old folkie.
stickguy
9/15/2010-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
I was going to write up a piece looking at the bright side, but it is too early in the morning to get called names. so I won’t bother.
but man, the Pirates are bad. Epic bad. And the Mets are ~.500. Big difference.
TRS86
9/15/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Eh, preach it man. Some will take it just fine. It’s ok to have a different view.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
I think even those of us who admit the current Mets team is a disaster can appreciate the potential of Thole, Tejada, Niese and Davis. The mistake will be to assume these guys are good enough to carry the team next year (or ever).
I’m particularly fond of Thole. If the Mets can get .280/360/400 out of the catcher position with passable defense then I think that’s one less position of concern.
TRS86
9/15/2010-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
I think where some of us differ is the use of the word disaster. If this team continues at it’s current pace and finishes around .500 while certainly not good nor acceptable it’s hardly a disaster and is only a few moves away from relevance again in my mind. Others may differ on that but that’s ok. It’s hard for me to imagine that if you fixed a few things we could not have had 10 more wins.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
What you say is reasonable though we will disagree that only a “few things” need to be fixed.
But I’m sure the owners consider $120m payroll and being closer to the Nats than the Phils a disaster.
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
True but again how much can a .500 season be a disaster? How many wins did we expect with this group? I expected 82-88. Is 79-81 wins that much below expectations?
kingman 26
9/15/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
I think yes, depending on how you look at it—how the team utterly collapsed in July.
That was a disaster. OK, now they are going to fatten up on the Pirates and maybe finish above .500?
I would rather that they won a few more games in July when it counted.
They folded, and folded hard.
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
In July I think they had some issues for sure. If you want to call it folded I don’t have a problem with that. Mostly they could not overcome lack of offense and injuries during that road trip. If the Mets go .500 on that trip things could be quite different now.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Well, I do certainly agree with that sir.
Prismo
9/15/2010-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
I think we can agree that the biggest fix should and will probably be the management. Even if it’s 90% perception and 10% reality, this team has a negative aura that can be fixed with all new management in place. The talent is and has always been there (except maybe at 2b). This team SHOULD have Bay hitting 30+ HR with a high OBP in LF, Beltran hitting above average in CF, Pagan likely above average in RF, Wright the same at 3B, and Reyes’ unique talents at SS. I’m confident that Thole can AT LEAST hit average for a catcher (which is an OPS below .700 I think), and Ike can hit near average for a 1b. This SHOULD be a lineup that scores runs. If a new manager and hitting coach can get them on board (big IF), this team still can be a contender next season.
rustyjr
9/15/2010-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
just imagine if they pulled of a trade before the deadline. either someone told me (maybe Popper or Lennon) or i read it somewhere that the team was somewhat deflated when the trade deadline came and passed without any impact moves made.
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Possible but I don’t believe there was a trade out there at the deadline that could have pushed us over the Braves or Phillies.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
If we didn’t bunt in the first inning with a man on base and no outs we probably could have had 5 more wins.
LOL….couple of better decisions in one area, couple of breaks in another, a few more timely hits from the offense and we’re probably looking at about 10 more wins right now.
I lost count of the one run games we’ve lost this year.
I agree it wasn’t a disaster but it certainly wasn’t what I expected and was more than disappointing.
Changing a couple of players on the field isn’t going to do it in my mind. FO must go. Take the coaches with you.
kingman 26
9/15/2010-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Post away!
The Float is in drydock, but the improvements were finished and it is ready to roll.
We may rent it out to the Phils to make a few extra bucks. KIDDING!
I am already psyched for a roster of Pelf, Niese, Mejia, Gee, Parnell, Thole, Ike, Murphy, Tejada, Evans, FMart and who knows who else.
It really will be 1983 next year. That’s exciting.
I just honestly feel that this current group does in fact lack some of the qualities that the Nabobs have been asserting for years now.
Change must come on and off the field.
Mr North Jersey
9/15/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
“The Float is in drydock”
LoL
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
“I agree with Davidoff and the team official that if the Mets were to trade Reyes, David Wright and Francisco Rodriguez (plus cash), they could bring in enough high-quality, young talent in one off season to make a real difference for the future.”
Man Davidoff is clueless. For one Krod would cost US prospects to trade right now and if the team trades Reyes and Wright then hell I might as well be a Pirates fan.
Prismo
9/15/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Allow me to put on my cynical hat for a moment.
Davidoff would LOVE for the Mets to trade these players. Then they’d be completely awful in 2011 and he could, without effort, rip on the team for another 162 game season.
rustyjr
9/15/2010-11:08am at 11:08 am (UTC -4)
exactly – and of course a rival nl executive would say that – it would retard the mets chances to compete in the near future even more
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-11:14am at 11:14 am (UTC -4)
Davidoff is more than annoying lately.
njstuckintx
9/15/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
doesn’t wright and reyes be constituted as young talent for the future?
rustyjr
9/15/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
btw – another piching option that i don’t want next year – as per mlbtr.com
The Pros
•Padilla posted 8.0 K/9 with 2.3 BB/9 and a 4.07 ERA.
•His average fastball velocity (92.4 mph) hasn’t been this high since 2005.
•He doesn’t turn 33 until later this month, so he’s still relatively young even though he has 12 years of big league experience.
•The neck injury that has sidelined Padilla probably won’t require surgery.
•He is projected to be a Type B free agent, so he won’t cost a draft pick.
•Padilla’s tenure in Texas ended badly a year ago, but he has since earned Joe Torre’s trust, which reflects well.
The Cons
•He’ll miss the rest of the season with a bulging disk in his neck.
•A forearm injury sidelined Padilla earlier in the season, so he made just 16 total starts in 2010.
•Padilla didn’t replicate the strong finish he had a year ago and posted a 10.13 ERA in his final three starts.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Looking at the crop of FA pitchers this year well….I’m not impressed by many.
I’d rather the Mets take a chance on an up and coming pitcher (through trade, if they can do it) then take a chance on a pitcher on the wrong side of 30 or one with a multiple injury history.
It will be interesting to see what the FO does this off season in regards to pitching.
If their mindset is Pelf/Niese/Dickey/Gee/Mejia we might as well hang it up right now. Mejia should start in the minors and we’re in desperate need of depth. I would like to see Mejia and Gee be that depth.
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
I think the mid-rotation guy can be a guy like Vasquez or Lilly if the terms are right. They also need to bring in an upside guy to compete with Gee as well.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
add vasquez into the mix of the guys i listed below. would probably prefer him over lilly and kuroda if he’s healthy because he’s proven in the NL he could be a #2 when he’s on.
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:37am at 11:37 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. I want the one that will sign for 2 years or less. Good thing is that none of these guys are spring chickens and looking for 4-5 year contracts.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
Agreed again. Offer all three two year max deals and since which two jump first.
But definitely scrutinize the medicals of javy and ted.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
pass on Vazquez. velocity drop and just general unreliability? Might as well grab Maine cheaper.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
general unreliability? this will be vasquez’s first season of under 198 IP in the last 11 seasons!!!
Like I said, scrutinize his medical condition. But he clearly has the best track record of these other guys and doesn’t fit in the subterranean reliability classification of a John Maine.
TRS86
9/15/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Most of that velocity drop was early in the year.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
Thought it was still down? I don’t watch the Yankees enough, or closely enough, to notice. Velocity _should_ come back with with regular work and a proper workload between starts and what not. He’ll command to0 much coming off a bad year I’d suspect. If we’re looking for guys to flourish under our new and improved leadership, rather it be with less financial or prospect risk.
TRS86
9/15/2010-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
I am confused. Why would he command too much coming off a bad year?
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
i like padilla. but his health is not reliable enough for this mets team.
i’d really like lilly as our mid rotation starter. if he’s willing to take 2-3 years of reasonable money…
arroyo may be let go from cincy, he’d do too.
i don’t see any way to replace johan next season other than the high improbability of signing cliff lee.
the mets should sign two pitchers next year. something like pelfrey, lilly, kuroda, niese, dickey would hopefully give enough credible innings until johan comes back or mejia/gee prove ready at AAA.
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
I completely agree with you Wanny.
Lilly and Kuroda would be a steal. If not one of the two and then an upside guy to compete with Gee would be acceptable.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
I agree…no way to possibly replace Johan next season.
I wouldn’t mind Lilly but he’s up there in age. Given the fact that IMO, he and Lee are at the top of that FA list, I think Lilly is going to want more $$ and especially more years than we should be giving.
Kuroda…not a bad idea.
Some of us were discussing Z. Duke, if the Pirates non tender him this year. He’s only 27. But after last nights game, IDK…. .)
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
I would only look at Duke as a #5 competition for Gee.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
What about Maholm? He’s been somewhat decent at times. Pirates might be looking to move on (he’sbeen there a bit right..arbitration eligible maybe?) from him..
There are probably creative options out there.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
R.A. Dickey‘s 11 wins since May 25 – the date of his first win of the season – is tied for third-most in the National League over that span, behind two Cy Young Award candidates: Adam Wainwright (12) and Roy Halladay (12). Ryan Dempster and Bronson Arroyo also have 11 wins since May 25.
~ Elias Sports Bureau
*************************
I find it highly amusing, or absolutely disheartening…however you want to look at it – that not one Met fan has faith that RA could step up next year and be that ace with Johan out. I think everyone of us is just waiting for that proverbial other shoe to drop in regards to RA next year.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
I agree with you. But I’m also waiting for the other shoe to drop.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
To lighten things up, Mets ought to have ‘Hard Hat’ Giveaway day in early April next year.
Get ‘em while you can, Met fans. Protect yourself from the shoe dropping that has become of way of life for Met fans in the past several years.
TRS86
9/15/2010-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Gotta look at career numbers and prepare for the worst while being pleasantly surprised again. That being said damn he looks good. As for those guys ahead of him, Wainwright is struggling.
Ceetar
9/15/2010-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
The Mets should operate under the assumption that the shoe will drop. I don’t think it will. It’s hard to look at his career numbers in a predictive sense, since he’s changed so much that he’s not the same pitcher a lot of those numbers represent.
A good sign is that he did have a little bit of a rough stretch where he was getting bitten by knucklers not breaking and giving up bombs have the usually array of bloop hits and/or walks that knucklers are prone to give up in general. But he did bounce back from that, and being able to change speeds and also having a not quite pathetic fastball helps.
I’m not worried about ranking pitchers. Dickey will likely be one of five and a contributor.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
SNY posted something about Dickey last night. I believe it was in his first 9 home starts as a Met he has the lowest ERA in team history. Better than Seaver, Gooden, so on.
TRS86
9/15/2010-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
You would think that Citi would be perfect for knuckle ball guys as they have a tendency to be HR prone.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know enough to comment one way or the other on that. I can only say that given the Mets organization’s history of fine starting pitching and some of the luminaries who have started for this club in it’s history that I find Dickey’s feat damned impressive.
Unrelated I was reading through some of this morning’s twitter action and I am surprised you never unleashed the easily available low-blow in your discussion of Nick Evans with Amazin Avenue – they sponsor his B-R page. Bias.
TRS86
9/15/2010-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t. We sponsor Fmart and Tejada. LOL.
TRS86
9/15/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
They ignored him in 2009 because he deserved to be ignored.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
Judging by his numbers in ’09 hard to dispute that.
In 2010, Mets shouldn’t be ignoring anyone who might be a contributing factor to the 2011 team and/or show casing them for trade bait.
I don’t need to see Carter anymore. He plain cannot throw, we have more than enough backups for 1st base and he doesn’t appear good off the bench. Enough with Carter getting any more starts. Duda, for all his offense in the minors, is really struggling so far up here. Evans, on the other hand, has made the most of his limited appearances. Just haven’t seen enough to know if he could be considered a valuable bench tool. I guess ST will have to answer some of this.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-1:03pm at 1:03 pm (UTC -4)
I’m mostly kidding, just saying that you could have if you wished pulled the “well you’re biased you sponsor his page” card.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
AA has dubbed Nick Evans ‘He who must not be named’, in honor of the fact that this organization and Jerry has virtually ignored him for two years.
Every time someone makes a comment concerning Evans, the response is always: ‘Who?’
TRS86
9/15/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
whoops that went in the wrong spot.
See above.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
Reading an article on Zach Duke’s outing last night. Sounds more and more like he won’t be part of the Pirates rotation next year. Actually sounds like last night’s game was his last start in a Pirate uniform.
Found this quote amusing from the Pirates RF substitute mid way through the game in regards to RA:
New York knuckleballer R.A. Dickey pitched a five-hitter in going the distance. Dickey had only four strikeouts, but …
“It wasn’t any fun trying to square up on him,” right fielder Brandon Moss said after grounding out twice as a late substitute. “It had a lot of late movement, dance a little up or down, sometimes in … hey, even he probably doesn’t know where it’s going.”
*********
That’s our RA Dickey. Gotta love him.
wannybackstra
9/15/2010-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
You gotta love R.A. whether he can pitch or not. Seems like a fine person, a competitor and probably deserves whatever award the league has for dedication to the game and perseverance (I know the NHL has the Masterson Trophy).
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
RA should hold a clinic over the winter in conduct becoming a ML ball player.
I wonder what a conversation between him and someone like Reyes would be.
GravediggerHebner
9/15/2010-1:00pm at 1:00 pm (UTC -4)
I understand why but can not relate on a personal basis to why Jeff Francoeur was considered by many fans to be a really likable guy who they rooted for and followed.
To me, R.A. Dickey is a really likable guy who I root for and follow. Luckily for me he actually performs well too. But Dickey is a player unlike any I’ve witnessed in, well, forever, in the way he communicates verbally and I am at a loss for words to express how much I enjoy every interview with him.
Obviously I hope he does well as a pitcher but I also hope he’s on the team for the next few years because both his pitching day and anything he has to say in between give me something to look forward to.
I think I noticed, among many books (books? books!) in his locker last night a dictionary and a thesaurus. I have a serious man-crush on this guy.
metsfan4decades
9/15/2010-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
Couldn’t agree more. I remember listening to his first post game interview. All I could think was ‘wow’….what a breath of fresh air. And hey…most of this will go right over Jerry’s head.
I make sure never to miss the post game when he’s pitching.
I think I read somewhere along the way that had he not continued his pursuit to be a ML pitcher, he probably would have wound up being an English Lit teacher or professor. Not hard to imagine that.
He doesn’t fit any mold of any ML ball player than comes to mind in all the years I’ve been watching baseball.
I just love the guy. I would have loved to have seen the Mets clinch the division if for nothing elsethan to see RA celebrating and hear his comments on what that would have felt like for him.