Watching last night’s win I got to thinking about a couple of things. First as they were celebrating I was thinking why are you celebrating a game that does not matter. Then another thought crossed my mind. These games do matter to the individual just as they still matter to me.
Tell Ruben Tejada who has had a terrible year with the bat that going 3/4 with the last hit being a well hit game winning uh… double that his hit does not matter. A guy who could be fighting for a position on the MLB team next season.
Tell Luis Castillo, the “pouting 2B who can’t run anymore and only cares about money” that his hustle around the bases after coming in as a pinch runner does not matter. Think about this, the guy that Slappy was benched for at the plate and Castillo enters as a pinch runner at 1B representing the winning run. While Tejada’s ball was well hit, the way that McSingleton is described you would think he would dog it, not care about the win and be on 3rd base after Tejada’s hit. Instead, if you watch the replay, Castillo read the hit right off the bat and busted his ass the entire way sliding in well before the ball arrived but only because of a poor throw.
These guys may not have the talent of other teams, the confidence of other teams but I will say this. What I saw last night was a team that believed these games matter.
69 comments
kingman 26
9/29/2010-9:24am at 9:24 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I guess the other day when they couldn’t find Castillo during the game because he was somewhere in the clubhouse, I guess he was solemnly praying for a win because the games mean so much to him, right?
I guess when he openly sulks and bitches about playing time, he is just–in his own way–showing how much the games and the team mean to him, right?
You often skate on thin ice with your refusal to acknowledge the obvious reality of some players’ mental makeup, but this is really too much, even for you.
TRS86
9/29/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
Hey I baited a kingman. I feel successful. How did I know that when I wrote this you would object? So tell me Kingman, why did Castillo bust his ass to score from 1B on a hit from his replacement?
kingman 26
9/29/2010-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
When he came into camp out of shape and was injured a huge amount of time three years ago after getting a 4-year 25 million dollar contract, that definitely showed how much he cared about the team, right?
I will let you in on a tiny secret that Wanny and I and a few others seem to share—it does not diminish us even 1% as people to admit that some players who wear Met uniforms do not put out all of the effort that they should all of the time.
I hope this helps.
To answer your question–maybe he busted his ass to try to make up for being AWOL during AT LEAST one game recently?
TRS86
9/29/2010-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
Kingman, at what point did I say that I thought Castillo was a good player or that he did what he should at all times.
The theme of this post was that last night’s game was not meaningless to those 2 players. If you chose to disagree with that statement so be it.
There are NOT sides. Stop painting commenters into 2 groups. One that you say realize and have their eyes open and one that do not realize and have their eyes closed or their “rose colored glasses” on. These commenters just like baseball have plenty of gray area. I would hope that most realize that the Mets are not as bad as many make them out to be and are certainly not as good as they should be. Life and baseball are played in the middle.
njstuckintx
9/29/2010-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
because its his job. if he just lollygagged it, he’d severely hurt his chances of another contract after this one (even a 1 year dear somewhere). And just cause he’s supposedly not happy doesn’t mean he’s going to drop a dookie on the game itself.
TRS86
9/29/2010-10:23am at 10:23 am (UTC -4)
Right, I am not trying to portray Castillo as a winner in this post. I am saying these games do matter to the individual and to the team.
njstuckintx
9/29/2010-10:26am at 10:26 am (UTC -4)
I agree that these meaningless games have meaning to certain players looking to learn/make a good impression for the upcoming season. Doesn’t mean it’s not a meaningless game to the fans…
TRS86
9/29/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
To some it may be and to some it may not be. For me these games are not meaningless at all. I get to see young players trying their best to make a statement. I get to see established players stepping up their roles vocally and on the field. I get to see… the Mets play.
wannybackstra
9/29/2010-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
awwww
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:16am at 11:16 am (UTC -4)
Hey lets make fun of a Mets fan who enjoys watching the Mets play and will count down the days until they play again. Why not?
Ceetar
9/29/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Hmm, which player on the Mets has the most World Series rings?
kingman 26
9/29/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Yes, and his play, attitude, hustle, and staying in shape sure show the relevance of this, don’t they?
A less relevant fact could not be found.
wannybackstra
9/29/2010-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
well said, NJ. I have never seen the word dookie used so appropriately.
metsfan4decades
9/29/2010-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
For me, I’d be far more disappointed if the Mets walked off that field with the attitude of ‘hey, who cares, our season was over long ago’, then I am because some think we should all have the mindset of ‘you should be ashamed of yourselves for celebrating after the season you just played’.
TRS86
9/29/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Agreed.
kingman 26
9/29/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
For me, the entire game was a preview of the future.
Pelf Pitched well.
Wright blasted a 2-run homer when needed.
And the 9th inning rally was a clutch double by Ike, another well-timed hit by Thole, and a game-winning double by Tejada.
No Beltran or Reyes in sight.
Mr North Jersey
9/29/2010-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
I don’t ever recall a team that won a game in walk off fashion not celebrating at home plate. Can anyone else?
The Mets won a game for the 1st time this season when they trailed after 8 innings with rookies playing a big part in it.
The other day some used Castillo not being in the dugout to suggest these games mean nothing to him now we are using how hard Castillo ran plus the fact that they celebrated at home to suggest these games have meaning?
Tomorrow what will be used to suggest again that these games mean or don’t mean nothing to certain players?
It is a back n forth with no end. I guess talking about the same ole who will be GM stuff or what went wrong stuff or how do we fix the Mets stuff? Gets tired also so I guess I understand the need to discuss something different I just get very little from it.
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
I was trying to approach it from a different angle. Not from the Luis Castillo is a winner, or Ruben Tejada is a hustles but from the angle that these games do matter to the individual player and to some individual fans. I guess I did not.
Mr North Jersey
9/29/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
“from the angle that these games do matter to the individual player and to some individual fans.”
I understand that is your angle I just get very little from it.
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
I guess that’s better than to somehow get the angle that Luis Castillo is a winner because he hustled from 1st to 3rd.
kingman 26
9/29/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
Hey, to clarify my thoughts, it was a great win. The fact that it was Ike, Thole, and Tejada (and Pelf and Wright) who were primarily responsible makes it even better.
Castillo’s “hustle” for a few seconds and TRS’ crowing about it is perfectly symbolic of the whole year.
Most Met veterans hustle SOME OF THE TIME NOT ALL OF THE TIME.
That is my entire point, no matter how TRS twists and distorts it.
Are we supposed to think Castillo is a hustling gamer now? Tonight he will probably be hiding in a closet with a tray of ribs when they need him.
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
Kingman, I keep trying to explain over and over that this is NOT about Castillo’s virtues. I am saying that these games do matter to the team and the individual player and fan.
That is all.
If you want to again play sides then so be it. I got nothing better to do. However, I would just as soon not have that same conversation again.
wannybackstra
9/29/2010-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
Are we really championing a guy for hustling around the bases?
We have hit an all-time low.
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:12am at 11:12 am (UTC -4)
Yup, I championed him. That was the point of the entire article. Way to write that summary for me.
kingman 26
9/29/2010-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
You sure did.
And Wanny is 100% right.
For an overpaid Met veteran, yeah, if they run hard around the bases, I guess it IS cause for celebration.
Reyes, Beltran, Slappy, Ollie–I would be very happy never seeing them again in a Met uniform.
Bring on the kids. Let Beltran jog into CF on the basepaths and let Reyes get thrown out on the bases four time in a series wearing another uniform.
Time for the kids.
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Kingman will you point out where I championed Castillo as a player?
All I said was that it looked to me as the game mattered to him last night. That is it that is all.
Again, stop with this sides crap.
kingman 26
9/29/2010-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
“Luis Castillo, the “pouting 2B who can’t run anymore and only cares about money” ”
This quote isn’t sarcastically and directly refuting those of us who assess Luis’ game in 2010 differently than you do?
And in a POST, not in the comment section!
Come on. Don’t throw nonsense out there and act shocked when it is thrown back at you.
Reyes is an unfocused bonehead on the bases after 7+ years in the bigs. And his fielding is nothing like it once was.
Beltran slides hard one day then peels off and jogs out of the way the very next day.
Castillo hustles hard a few days after being hidden away far from the action in the clubhouse, which, to most observers, might suggest a very inconsistent level of caring.
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
Kingman that quote was not to imply that Castillo is the opposite. You took it that way.
kingman 26
9/29/2010-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
Putting it in quotes suggests that it is wrong and you believe the opposite.
What does putting something in quotes in that context mean if not that you think it is not true and you believe the opposite?
What exactly did that mean then?
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
To me there are too many absolutes and sides being played right now. Period.
Castillo is not a good player, however he is not the root of all evil.
The Mets are not flat out worthless and terrible but they are not as good as they should be.
Again, many have implied that these guys don’t care at all and are playing out the string and taking their checks. I disagree. I believe that they are right in the middle of being a team that hustles all the time (that team does not exist) and the team that doesn’t care at all (that team does not exist either)
I just grow tired of the black and white that so many try and portray.
kingman 26
9/29/2010-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Great!
Now how about addressing this:
You said: “Kingman that quote was not to imply that Castillo is the opposite. You took it that way.”
OK, allow me to retort:
“Putting it in quotes suggests that it is wrong and you believe the opposite.
What does putting something in quotes in that context mean if not that you think it is not true and you believe the opposite?
What exactly did that mean then?”
???
TRS86
9/29/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
I just did. I believe that the truth is in the middle. If you can’t see that then I guess I can’t explain it.
kingman 26
9/29/2010-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
You are really, really pushing it here.
You put something sarcastic in quotes, basically threw napalm, and are furious that it resulted in fire.
Very, very strange behavior.
TRS86
9/29/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
I have already explained my side. However lets play devil’s advocate and say that my opinion was the opposite of yours and that I thought Castillo was a player who hustled all the time and was a winner. Would that be worth being attacked for that opinion?
Should that have resulted in this mockery?
“You often skate on thin ice with your refusal to acknowledge the obvious reality of some players’ mental makeup, but this is really too much, even for you.”
wannybackstra
9/29/2010-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
and our fearless hustling hero read the bat off the bat well, busted his ass around the bases and slid… and… and… and… all in the face of adversity…
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
Wanny if you chose to read it that way, that is your choice but it certainly was not what I implied. I never mentioned that Luis Castillo was a great player, hustled all the time or certainly was a hero. I never mentioned his adversity only to the fact that I considered it irony that he was hustling from 1st to home on a hit by Tejada.
Dang, almost sorry I wrote the article. I guess silence would be better. Perhaps another article about how the Mets are doomed?
stickguy
9/29/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
You can always go back to debating if the Phillies are the best team in the history of MLB, or just the last 50 years.
That was certainyl fun!
kingman 26
9/29/2010-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
“You can always go back to debating if the Phillies are the best team in the history of MLB, or just the last 50 years.”
Can you cite one comment other than this one that even suggests this?
TRS86
9/29/2010-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
Dang, again my intentions were not to praise Castillo for doing it only to show that based on my perception he did indeed care last night. I thought it would have been the perfect opportunity for him to sulk and still be on 3rd base. However, he did not and I do not think he should be commended for that but I did notice it.
That is all.
Prismo
9/29/2010-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
lol
wannybackstra
9/29/2010-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
Seriously, TRS, if you don’t think that your praise of Castillo for running the bases wasn’t effusive then I’m not sure you’ve read your own words.
TRS86
9/29/2010-12:07pm at 12:07 pm (UTC -4)
See above. That reply was supposed to go here.
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
“Then another thought crossed my mind. These games do matter to the individual just as they still matter to me.”
“These guys may not have the talent of other teams, the confidence of other teams but I will say this. What I saw last night was a team that believed these games matter.”
How does this turn into another debate that paints fans into two distinct groups both feeling they are right and the other group is wrong?
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
This really is getting ridiculous. You can’t write or comment on any article on the Mets right now without it turning into this. I wrote the article based on my thoughts from last night. Again my thoughts were that I was actually kind of surprised that Castillo scored. I noticed that he seemed to be running as hard as he has all year to score on a double that was hit by his replacement. That is all. And now I have to explain how those thoughts are not some idealistic thought championing the virtues of a guy I hope is no longer on the team next year. If I had a life, I might have to take a break.
kingman 26
9/29/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
Again, selective silliness!
The rally was great!
Ike doubled, Thole singled, and Tejada won the game!
That’s great! That’s the future in action!
All Castillo did was run hard! That’s it! He didn’t get a hit or draw a walk, he simply was findable by the staff and ran hard for 270 feet! That’s it!
Writing the article sarcastically to champion overpaid, moping Luis Castillo is absolutely ridiculous!!
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
You have your opinion as to why this article was written. However, based on the facts of the article the theme was this game mattered to the players and to the individual. If you again want to turn it into the same debate and chastise those with a different view so be it.
metsgirl31
9/29/2010-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
This is exactly why I haven’t commented for a long time. Every time someone expresses a different opinion they are ridiculed. Just because I refuse to say this team has no heart and are a bunch of overpaid, lazy, dimbulbs doesn’t mean I am incapable of being objective or am unintelligent. This site used to be a place where anyone with any opinion could come and express their opinions and have a meaningful discussion. Now it is like every other site where negativity is spewed and its only about being right. Its very disappointing.
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
Metsgirl, please know you are still very welcome and this is a site where all opinions are treated as worthwhile and valuable.
Prismo
9/29/2010-11:45am at 11:45 am (UTC -4)
I miss you metsgirl!
metsgirl31
9/29/2010-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
Thanks! I’ve missed being here
metsfan4decades
9/29/2010-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
There she is. Glad to ‘see’ from you again.
That’s what is great about this site though. Other than being deliberately crude, we get to express our opinions w/o fear of being ‘banned’……
stickguy
9/29/2010-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
of course the games mean something. Teams are supposed to try and win every game, all year. Regardless of where they are in the standings. That is the whold point of playing.
Hell, 2/3 of the teams in MLB are out of the playoff hunt by sometiem in August. Are they all supposed to just stop giving a shit, hustling, trying to win? How about, as soon as you are eliminated from the playoffs, you immediately stop playing games and all fans just stop watching (being no games to watch!).
Players still hustle and try in “meaningless” games for a lot of reasons. Pride (they are getting paid to do it), competitive desire (ever here about how many athletes hate to lose at anything, even checkers with their kids?), Money (next contract).
and of course, jobs (some trying to earn a regular spot as a rookie, and older guys like Slappy hping to have one in the future).
So TRS made a good point. These games mean something to the players. And to many fans, given all the pissing and moaning when they lose, it obviously means something.
TRS86
9/29/2010-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Thanks Stick, I guess you are on my “side” and we now have to agree on everything for thus there is no middle ground.
I really was only trying to imply that it appeared these games do matter and that the game mattered to me. Oh well.
Sparked a good debate though. The same debate we have every single day.
Mr North Jersey
9/29/2010-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
You nailed it stick. Plain and simple.
metsfan4decades
9/29/2010-12:16pm at 12:16 pm (UTC -4)
+1 My sentiments as well.
njstuckintx
9/29/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2010/09/ra_dickey_and_wife_wait_for_ba.html
not sure if it was posted anywhere else, but it was a good read.
Mr North Jersey
9/29/2010-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
Was just reading that also tx it indeed is a good article.
wannybackstra
9/29/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
Difficult to not like that R.A. He’s one of very few great stories in Metsville this season and I really hope he proves next season that this was no fluke.
Prismo
9/29/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Great article! Thanks for posting.
metsfan4decades
9/29/2010-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
I read this earlier this morning. I agree, tx – a very good read.
I have yet to read from one single Met poster anywhere anything negative about RA.
Prismo
9/29/2010-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
Regarding Castillo, he most certainly is playing for something. He knows that there’s a 90% chance he loses his starting job on the Mets, and maybe a 30% chance he’s outright released (just making up numbers).
If he’s released will he get a starting job on another team? Almost definitely not. But he could get a backup job and play in a few dozen games next season.
Mr North Jersey
9/29/2010-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
I am reading TRS & Kingy’s back n forth up above and with all due respect TRS your comment in the article where you say,
“Tell Luis Castillo, the “pouting 2B who can’t run anymore and only cares about money” that his hustle around the bases after coming in as a pinch runner does not matter.”
If that doesn’t as you told Kingman “imply that Castillo is the opposite.”
Which opposite to me the way I understand Kingman if I am not mistaken is saying that these games do not have meaning for Castillo. Then what does that quote mean?
I thought the quote was to suggest that these games do mean something to Castillo.
TRS86
9/29/2010-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
What you gathered is correct. I do believe that these games matter to Castillo. However, I was not trying to champion him for running the bases nor being a great player or teammate. ONLY that he did seem to care about the outcome of that game.
Prismo
9/29/2010-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
http://www.theonion.com/articles/us-government-opens-special-5000acre-area-where-am,18164/
We need one of these for Mets fans.
TRS86
9/29/2010-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Wouldn’t that be hilarious if the government did indeed waste tax money on such a product?
Prismo
9/29/2010-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
I would contend that the government wastes tax money on far more ridiculous things!
TRS86
9/29/2010-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
Unfortunately quite true. However, wouldn’t it be nice if neither were the case and were not an excuse for the other.
GravediggerHebner
9/29/2010-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
I haven’t played organized baseball in decades and of course have never played it professionally but when I did play I was mostly on some lousy teams, teams that were lousy in part because I was lousy.
But on the rare occasion that we won a game we savored and celebrated it in our teen and pre-teen way which is remarkably similar to the major league way but minus cigars and champagne. We jumped around and patted each other in various appropriate an inappropriate places and yelled and smiled.
So I have no issue at all with the non-contending Mets thoroughly enjoying a rare walk-off victory over another non-contending team and I doubt even the hypocritical judges of all things baseball-celebratory the Phillies would have any problem with the Mets enjoying last night’s win.
TRS86
9/29/2010-1:09pm at 1:09 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed, thanks for the comment.