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Mets, Mr. North Jersey, Real Dirty Mets Blog
by Mr North Jersey
10/4/2010-1:59pm at 1:59 pm (UTC -4)
Listening to the conference… I think it was Jeff who just said “Those Who Forget History Are Doomed to Repeat It and we haven’t forget the last 4 years”.
Well you obviously forget the years before 2005, because guess what Jeffy? You already repeated history.
10/4/2010-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
in all the discussions, was anything said about the coaches? Were they let go too, or just put into the “let the new guy decide” pool?
I know they are under contract until 11/1 so no big hurry.
10/4/2010-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
No coaching moves I would guess until new manager hired.
10/4/2010-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
They said specifically that the coaches will be informed of their status tomorrow but most positions will be effectively on hold until the new GM is in place.
Fred Wilpon: [The perception that Jeff Wilpon told Omar Minaya what to do] is an incorrect perception. We have always gone over budget in the 30 years I have been here… I don’t remember one time in all of Omar or before Omar, where the baseball department has come to Ownership and said, ‘We’d like to do this, this or this,’ and we turned them down… and yet the perception out there is that we’re picking baseball players. We’re not capable of picking baseball players.
I guess in the long run neither was Omar.
10/4/2010-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
Fred: “There isn’t one major decision that has ever been made at the New York Mets, while we have been in Ownership, that hasn’t been the consensus between the three of us. That’s the way we do business. ”
What does “major” mean? I guess Perez was not a major decision as he just said he has yet to turn down a GM’s wishes on player movement. LOL>
10/4/2010-2:22pm at 2:22 pm (UTC -4)
Yea they were very contradictory on this topic. One of the last questions is can you imagine other 3b besides Wright and their response was they would hear all scenarios but they would have to discuss it. Whats to discuss if they are hands off?
Yes I know moving Wright would be a “Major” move that they would need to discuss because it effects more than just 3b but every answer on every scenario thrown their way made it sound like they were very hands on. But of course they are puzzled by that perception.
10/4/2010-2:29pm at 2:29 pm (UTC -4)
needing to have 3 people discuss and agree to moves seems to support the theory that the organization gets bogged down in discussion and concensus building. And in general, that is a great way to stiffle creativity and big moves!
how about, hire a strong GM/VP (1 or 2 guys) and give them a budget and framework, and tell him to go at it.
10/4/2010-2:31pm at 2:31 pm (UTC -4)
I think the specific question asked was ‘can you imagine starting 2011 w/o the man who is currently at third base now?
Jeff replied: ‘I couldn’t imagine it, no…..but we’re certainly going to listen to any and all the new GM puts forward towards improving this team.
10/4/2010-2:32pm at 2:32 pm (UTC -4)
That is the great mystery wrapped in an enigma. They keep referring to the GM, past and future, having autonomy while they simultaneously refer to everything being discussed by this triumvirate of Wilpon/Wilpon/Katz.
As best as I can understand it, the GM decides “this is what I want to do” of his own volition, then goes to the WWK group and says “this is what I want to do, will you let me?”
10/4/2010-2:34pm at 2:34 pm (UTC -4)
I was wondering the same myself.
I have to say, just like any other owner of any other company…owners always have the final word. I doubt many let those under them, even a president of their company, spend their money without their O.K.
10/4/2010-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
Jeffy just admitted that the new GM won’t have autonomy in selecting a manager.
10/4/2010-2:39pm at 2:39 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I think they said that right up front. I was trying to listen while on a telecon so didn’t hear all but thought they made it clear they’ll have last word on the new manager, not the new GM.
Fred was also very vocal when asked about the Madoff issue, which I believe was asked by Marty Noble. He said flat out that all their business, including SNY are doing good, pretty darn good, or great. Even their real estate holdings in this down market.
But he won’t lie, losing that money stung. Said it always sting, no one likes to lose money. But the betrayal was worse. He will go to his grave feeling that betrayal after investing with Madoff for 25 years.
10/4/2010-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
not sure any of them really do 100%.
again, it goes back to if the owners are going to pick one, give thier opinion on what type to look for, or just want a chance to review before the offer is made.
And in this case, of course $ comes into play. and maybe a short list of “no ways”
10/4/2010-3:17pm at 3:17 pm (UTC -4)
Fannnnnnn-tastic. I’m not into S&M, yet I am a Met fan. Go figure.
10/4/2010-2:37pm at 2:37 pm (UTC -4)
Well, that does not really bother me that much, if it is done at the “big picture” level. In essence, it is giving the guy a budget and authority to go out and make moves, which is what we all seem to want.
As long as he does not have to come back for an OK stamp on every single item to implement the plan, NBD
10/4/2010-2:28pm at 2:28 pm (UTC -4)
LOL…Fred Wilpon making it very clear with KB that he’s just as much a fan of the Mets as some of us are. Said he’s either at the field watching the game or watching the rest on SNY. Said he’s ‘anguished’ at the losing games, sometimes watching the game unfold. Said it’s probably not a good thing for his health, but there you have it.
Uh….I hear ya Fred.
He made it clear during the press conference that it’s not just a business to them, they want to see the Mets win as much as you or I do. Said the Mets are sometimes woven into the very fabric of fans everyday lives, not just at game time.
Sounds like a man that understands we live and die with this team.
Burkhardt: If the next GM says “I want to build a team around home runs” would you do that?
Fred: If that’s the plan, sure, we’d move in the fences if that’s what it takes.
wouldn’t it be a kicker if all this time, the wilpons really were just clueless, and letting the GM drive the ship around in circles?
I actually hope so, on th eoff chance they finally hire a real strong GM/VP that will take the bull by the horns and bulldoze through the entire organization.
I want a maniacal tyrant to come in and scare the shit out of everyone that gets in his way!
10/4/2010-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
The particular discussion about how “Omar never came to us about releasing Oliver Perez” may suggest that the Wilpons really are letting the GM drive the ship as it implies that they may have considered it but were leaving it up to the “baseball guy.”
Listening to Jeff Wilpon inspires about as much confidence as listening to Omar Minaya.
Autonomy is an illusion when it comes down to the Wilpons.
I agree. I get a better feeling about things when Fred is talking than I do when Jeff is. Still not a great feeling but a better feeling.
Largely unrelated I see that Justin Morneau is officially out for the year. Both he and Jason Bay suffered concussions in July and never played again this season. How is it that football players get concussed then play in the next game sometimes? I understand that each brain is unique and all that but it is hard for me to wrap my own brain around baseball concussions causing more missed time than football concussions.
10/4/2010-2:42pm at 2:42 pm (UTC -4)
I read an article on that not too long ago from the footballs perspective. They’re finding out more and more that players with a concussion that didn’t let it fully heal, came back and played before they should have, are showing up with permanent brain damage as well as other damage down the road and irreversible at that.
I can’t remember the specifics now but it did name certain medical conditions named was ALS – Lou Gerhig’s disease. For those they had access to the autopsy for, almost 95% showed signs of a former concussion and/or brain injury somewhere down the line.
10/4/2010-2:47pm at 2:47 pm (UTC -4)
Probably the same reasons that it seems to be very common for football players to have significant brain injuries not long after they retire, and to die early from it.
Not sure if BB is overly cautious, but if I had to guess, I would say that FB rushes them back.
10/4/2010-2:36pm at 2:36 pm (UTC -4)
Love Bobby O’s analysis on all this. Right or wrong, he certainly doesn’t hold back on his thoughts.
Bobby sees no reason this team cannot compete on 2011.
I saw plenty of reasons why the team couldn’t compete in 2011 if Minaya & Manuel were in charge. Now that they’re gone I still see reasons why it will have trouble doing so but I am more hopeful that actions can be taken to overcome those reasons. Depending on who gets hired I may be even more hopeful than I am now or not but either way I’m more hopeful than I was yesterday.
Wilpon just said he doesnt feel the Mets are a team but more just a bunch of individuals.
I have to say I tend to agree with that notion.
10/4/2010-2:45pm at 2:45 pm (UTC -4)
Last night’s post game show – last of the season, Bobby O was very vocal on that as well. He flat out said whoever comes in here has to instill the ‘team’ concept. Not individuals playing for individuals but individuals playing as a team, with a team concept in mind.
I forget his exact words but he did allude to individuals not knowing any better or even worse, being on the selfish side.
10/4/2010-2:51pm at 2:51 pm (UTC -4)
well, that is a 2 part solution. Certainly the manager will have to play a large part in it, but it also takes players that lean that way already.
And hopefully the new GM makes it a part of the weeding out process. Say they are deciding on giving slappy 1 more shot. If they deem him to be in the “selfish” camp, off he goes.
If nothting else, I have to beleive that the bunch of young guys coming in will lean more toward a team concept, especially since most of the ones already up seem to be pretty well grounded (not a lot of “me first” showboating and attitude on display).
and I really wonder now what catagory they put Beltran in!
I was very happy that he made this statement as well. The team left the building when Cliff Floyd left town.
10/4/2010-3:00pm at 3:00 pm (UTC -4)
love him or hate him, but I think that Delgado was the gravitational force that really held the team together.
you can, of course, argue all day about where he pulled them though!
10/4/2010-3:26pm at 3:26 pm (UTC -4)
Really? I always thought he was considered the more divisive player in the clubhouse and created the “clique” environment that Wagner was complaining about.
10/4/2010-3:27pm at 3:27 pm (UTC -4)
Also, was always a Delgado fan the issue is we got him 2 years too late.
10/4/2010-3:22pm at 3:22 pm (UTC -4)
When KB asked Jeff about the coaches coming back (they’re all on ‘hold’ for the moment), Jeff said something like:
‘Two long term employees who will always have a job in this organization are HoJo and Randy Nieman. Three others that did a very good job will also be discussed: Chip Hale, Warthen and Jauss’.
10/4/2010-3:24pm at 3:24 pm (UTC -4)
So basically Razor Shines is kaput.
LOL…well I get the impression Hojo and Neiman won’t necessarily have their current positions, but will remain with the organization in some fashion.
The other three (and what exactly did Jauss do?) Jeff apparently was impressed with this year, but doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll be back. I really believe this is all going depend on who the new GM is.
10/4/2010-3:28pm at 3:28 pm (UTC -4)
Hojo is being reassigned to Citi Field Museum manager.
10/4/2010-3:31pm at 3:31 pm (UTC -4)
With HoJo I wonder if that means something like he’d become a lower minor league manager, or a minor league hitting coach, or a scout, or some sort of office position. Maybe mascot. “Boys and girls welcome Mr. Met and his sidekick HoJo!”
10/4/2010-3:46pm at 3:46 pm (UTC -4)
could easily get a job in the community relatins department. Just wander around making appearances for the club. Pretty common role for former team icons.
10/4/2010-3:48pm at 3:48 pm (UTC -4)
as to jauss, if there is 1 guy you should let the manager pick it is the bench coach.
10/4/2010-3:34pm at 3:34 pm (UTC -4)
It could be argued that he was Kaput from the start.
10/4/2010-3:56pm at 3:56 pm (UTC -4)
It’s unbelievable but MF just made a good point. If a new GM comes in and Backman is hired as the next manager, then the Wilpons are the ones making the decisions.
Completely agree. Why would a new GM to the Mets make that move. That move is made to appease older Mets fans.
10/4/2010-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
any new GM is going to have to have a vision and plan that the Wilpons can live with, or he won’t get hired. And possibly a manager that fits Wally’s profile would be the way the new guy wants to go.
so it is possible this would be a case of a communal org decision that the GM was good with, as opposed to having someone foisted off on him! Or at least, that is what we will be told.
10/4/2010-4:10pm at 4:10 pm (UTC -4)
I would believe that argument with a guy like Bobby V but have a hard time believing that with Backman. If I was a new GM (or new to the org) the last type of guy I would get is Backman. Has no ML experience and plenty of off field issues. If something goes wrong with that decision and Backman flops it could have a ripple effect with the GM’s standing.
To make changes that the Wilpons were talking about, proven guys will be hired. Want to throw Backman in as the bench coach? That would be a good decision to further groom him and create a perception that the guy is not out of control.
10/4/2010-4:17pm at 4:17 pm (UTC -4)
I agree with you on this point. Other than I would not saddle the new manager with him as a bench coach.
Just trying to stay positive and upbeat until I actually have a reason to revistit that position! ANd MF pontificating about “what ifs” is not it.
Now, the Wilpons could certainly make it a condition that wally stays in the system and moves up to a full season club, and I doubt the GM has an issue with that, unless he is trying for a total control power play (IOW, cutting off the wilpons collective nuts, just to prove he can)
10/4/2010-4:22pm at 4:22 pm (UTC -4)
Saw this on the DN site. Interesting. I did not remember that Wayne was an Omar crony. I though for some reason he was brought in by the owners. So maybe he never was a shot across the bow replacement in waiting after all!
Martino also noted that they had started with a list of 30+ candidates, and had it narrowed down to 5-7, and hoped to have one in place before the end of OCtober (and hopefully before the WS). Earlier the better, in order to review the system for 40 man roster decisions, arb, etc.
“–Wayne Krivsky, brought in by Minaya as an old friend from the Rangers organization, has a year left on his contract. Like the coaches, his status is up in the air at the moment.”
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