So Omar and Jerry took the hit yesterday and in my opinion, deservedly so. Omar lost his trust with ownership with some bad contracts and bad moves and Jerry, well let’s just say that he took the hit out of pure association- and some real poor managing too. Hey, two heads on a platter for the price of one. We all wanted it and I think it was time anyway. I applaud Fred and Jeff for coming out and talking to the press and in a way taking the hit as well for the teams performance.
But Yesterday in that Press Conference, as Jeff and Fred said all the right things that all Met Fans wanted to here- as I sit here writing this, I am still pessimistic when it comes down to promises made by those two fellows and I’ll state this: If Jeff really wants a contender, a team with a future, a team that will contend, then his job is very simple, find a GM and let him have the reins and be done with it.
To be fair to Omar and Jerry, I’ll ask this question: Whose decision was it to keep Oliver Perez and Luis Castillo on the roster when it was clear that both these players were done with the Mets? How is Jerry to manage a team when he played shorthanded almost the entire year? I know there was more to it than that but you can’t win without the horses, and clearly Jerry didn’t have many running all at once and it looked like either Omar wasn’t given permission or he had the lack of confidence to go out and get one at the Trading Deadline.
Right, it’s a money decision I know but that takes me to my next point. If the next GM has to operate under the same circumstances as Omar, how do we expect him to succeed? So imagine this: Your the new GM of the team and as you sit down at your new desk with a nice phone to talk some trades, Jeff walks into the office and tells you that unless you can trade Oliver Perez he has to stay on the roster because he’s owed 12 million dollars this year.
Suddenly that GM’s hair begins to go gray like Omar’s.
The Mets are not the Yankees I know that, they can’t eat money for bad contracts but they are a New York Team with a great fan base and revenue from a Network that allows them a little more leeway than lets say the Pirates or Marlins. Does our new GM have some financial freedom? Does he have the power to outright release some players? Does he have complete autonomy?
So it’s time for the Wilpons to find a plan, get their GM and leave him alone and let him build a winner. And they also have to accept the fact that in order to do that they’ll have to do the worst thing imaginable-eat money and stay out of baseball operations.
115 comments
njstuckintx
10/5/2010-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
Man, oh, man. The season ends and the authors of this site come out of hiding! It’s like 54 posts in 3 days.
And yes, you bring up the 1 super wild card to the whole thing. Can the Wilpon’s get out of the way for the good of the organization? I am quite pessimistic on that.
Ceetar
10/5/2010-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
I haven’t seen any evidence they’re in the way. Maybe there are other people in the dept that contridict and argue out decisions and get much up the waters, but it doesn’t seem like it’s the Wilpons.
rustyjr
10/5/2010-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
Hey ! Inhavent been hiding !!
njstuckintx
10/5/2010-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
Ceetar
10/5/2010-9:11am at 9:11 am (UTC -4)
Manuel did a horrible job. A pathetic one.
He played short because he wasn’t capable of managing 25 guys.
Luis Castillo does and did have value towards winning games. We’ll see where they do from here, but I don’t really see the “he’s done” thing. They rushed him back early from rehab, thrust him into the games, and then just as he started to get hot, benched him for the lesser Tejada in terms of winning games.
Perez did less damage to the Mets than Burnett did to the Yankees. Burnett’s going on the _playoff_ roster. So where’s that ruthless don’t let our mistakes beat us Yankee fantasy now? Girardi’s basically playing short, because he’d have to be pretty desperate to put A.J. in a game. (I know the rosters aren’t finalized, but there hasnt’ been any talk of leaving him off. so i guess that’s still possible)
Basically, Jeff implied to me that payroll will go up. He said whatever the new GM wants basically, and he also said if a candidate says “you’re almost there” he’s basically not getting the job. It was pointed out that it’s hard for Omar to come to him and suggest something with Ollie because Omar also backed Ollie in signing him. A new GM wouldnt’ be burdened by that, and he’d be clear and concise if he was to recommend releasing him. (they won’t before 4/1, and they shouldn’t)
A lot still has to go down. But the start is good. The Mets really aren’t more than a couple of good moves and a handful of minor ones away from competing.
njstuckintx
10/5/2010-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
Ceet, do you really think Jeff would say “yeah, even though we haven’t been good, we’re going to cut back on salary”. Of course he’s going to say we’ll do what ever it takes.
Ceetar
10/5/2010-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
Why bother if you’re not even going to believe things he says at face value?
There were other ways to go. They could’ve interviewed a GM three weeks ago, and hired Backman (cheap right?) as manager now and implied that it was the new GMs decision.
Nothing he said leads me to indicate that they won’t spend money.
njstuckintx
10/5/2010-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
I guess, let me rephrase.
I do not believe (nor will ever believe) 100% what is said to me at a media event. It’s a spin to put the team/product in the best light. It always will be. That said, they didn’t say they were going to cut back on the spending, so we got that going for us.
Show me, and I’ll believe. As of now, I hope but am not going to bet the ranch and my first born on things happening until they actually do.
And you are correct, nothing he said indicated that they won’t spend money. I hope they do. I just don’t take that to mean they automatically will start throwing benjamins around like they are falling out of maddoff’s pockets.
Ceetar
10/5/2010-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
I barely believe anything anyone says, but at least soon we’ll have a manager that doesn’t lie and maybe a GM that’s willing to actually say something? (probably not, not wanting to tip hands and all that)
What I mean is that i don’t see the evidence of an unwilling to spend, so I’m willing to take Jeff at his word that they’ll spend.
Prismo
10/5/2010-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/yankees/post/_/id/10683/report-burnett-out-of-alds-rotation
Sure you want to use Burnett as a comparison?
Sorry Ceetar, but Luis and Ollie must go. It’s OK to want change, you don’t have to be afraid!
Ceetar
10/5/2010-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
I do want change. I never really liked Castillo. I thought his passive approach was in contrast with what should’ve been an aggressive team (although sometimes that ability to work counts and get on base for an aggressive team can be helpful contrast) I think that’s the only legitimate place we can upgrade in the offseason. But he wasn’t done or washed up or worse than any of the other options, and he was indeed misused.
btw, I do believe the Mets would’ve left Ollie off the postseason roster too. The better question would’ve been if the Red Sox had surged, would Girardi still have started/pitched Burnett? But Kudos if they do this, Burnett should not be on the roster and I didn’t think Girardi/Cashman had the guts to do so.
Ceetar
10/5/2010-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
Nope, AJs on. Would you trust him in any spot?
Ceetar
10/5/2010-1:37pm at 1:37 pm (UTC -4)
He’s got a 6 ERA in the second half.
gategem
10/5/2010-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
I was not particularly enamored with the job Jerry Manuel did managing the Mets but you have put it into perspective. Casey Stengel, a HOF manager, had a record of 1149-696 in the 12 years he managed the Yankees. In the 13 years of managing other clubs his record was 756-1146. If you don’t have the talent I don’t care how smart you are you will not win.
Prismo
10/5/2010-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
Or how about Joe Torre:
12 years with Yankees – .605 record, 6 pennants, 4 WS titles
17 years w/o Yankees – .483 record, 0 pennants, 0 WS titles
CaseStreet
10/5/2010-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
Jeff just said on Boomer & Carton that cutting Perez right now doesn’t make sense because you have to see how he does in Winter Ball and Spring Training or see what effect a new GM will have on him. It seems like he wants to get rid of Ollie but that there’s no urgency to cut him, yet.
Ceetar
10/5/2010-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
As I’ve been saying all along. Releasing him after 9/1 is just stupid baseball operations. He doesn’t take up a roster spot or have to pitch or anything until 4/1. Even if it’s a .02% chance he pitches well enough to beat out everyone for a spot, or an outside chance someone sees a velocity jump and decides they’ll trade the Mets a crap Bison-filler and the Mets only have to pay 11million of the salary, the Mets are better off.
njstuckintx
10/5/2010-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
Wholeheartedly agree.
stickguy
10/5/2010-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
I said the same thing repeatedly during the year. Once the team was eseentially out of it (after the 2nd trade deadline), it really made no sense.
If anything, keeping him was a good baseball business decision (since they may still get some value out of him, and he can still be released next spring).
Cutting him 9/1 would have purely been pandering to the fans (throwing them a bone), and isn’t that something most fans have reamed the team out for doing?
Ceetar
10/5/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
There is no need to pander to the fans. the only thing that works is wins. Most of us will give them more money if Ollie P wins than if Dillon Gee loses.
stickguy
10/5/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
I agree. But, the most often used reason to cut him (including by some regulars here) was to appease the fans (show them we care).
THe organization needs to turn a deaf ear as much as possible to the media and fans, as long as the FO has a plan they beleive in. Articulate it, ask for petience, then see it through even if it involves some unpoplular moves.
TRS86
10/5/2010-11:28am at 11:28 am (UTC -4)
Exactly, in my opinion one thing that got them into this mess was listening too much to the media and fans.
TRS86
10/5/2010-11:43am at 11:43 am (UTC -4)
Someone help me out. What does this even mean?:
“HoJo on his firings, and future with Mets”
Are they planning on hiring him twice? Has he already been fired? I am confused.
Ceetar
10/5/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Typo probably. changed his mind and didn’tcorrect it. I dunno.
He hasn’t been fired, as noted, but that it’s up to the new regime.
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Wilpons said yesterday HoJo and Nieman would always have a place in the organization (I guess if they want it).
So even if HoJo is not the hitting coach going forward, he will be retained by the Mets in some capacity unless he, himself decides to turn down the newly offered job.
TRS86
10/5/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Couple of other random things. I saw these two things on MLBTR
Orlando Gritty of all grittiest Hudson will be a type B FA according to their latest rankings. Not saying I would sign him but thought those in his camp or not in his camp would like to know.
Pedro everyfriggingday Feliciano is some how a type B FA. Thus all the Mets get for letting him walk is 1 supplemental pick. In my thoughts considering how consistent he has been I would try and re-sign him if the price is right.
Prismo
10/5/2010-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
Absurd that Pedro is a type B. Has been consistently a workhorse and an excellent reliever for several years now. Saves are apparently incredibly overweighted.
Ceetar
10/5/2010-12:05pm at 12:05 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, relievers get no love. He was border line though.
Prismo
10/5/2010-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
(last 2 years)
Pedro: 3.17 ERA, 122 IP, 0 SV
Players directly above Pedro on the list:
Clay Hensley: 3.24 ERA, 114 IP, 7 SV
Todd Coffey: 3.70 ERA, 146 IP, 2 SV
John Axford: 2.60 ERA, 65 IP, 25 SV
make your own judgments
stickguy
10/5/2010-12:20pm at 12:20 pm (UTC -4)
170+ appearances and only 122 IP certainly screams OOGY though!
so, you really have to look at an OOGY as needing to sign 2 guys, since most innings you end up using them both to OOGY your way down the road.
stickguy
10/5/2010-12:17pm at 12:17 pm (UTC -4)
I doubt he will sign a cheap deal for 1 year, and I don’t have an interest in a multi-year deal.
So, I would still roll the dice with arbitration. The supplemental pick if they get it will still be quite valuable. If nothing else, it will let them sign a type A (if they want to) while effectively still having a 2nd round pick.
worst case, they pay him a little over market (arb) rate for 1 year.
TRS86
10/5/2010-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t have a problem with a 2 year deal. Nothing more.
stickguy
10/5/2010-12:38pm at 12:38 pm (UTC -4)
I just think a 2/6 deal (or whatever it ends up being) for an aging OOGY with a ton of miles on his arm is just perpetuating the actions of the past, and tying up more payroll than needed for too long. More of a Cora type move.
TRS86
10/5/2010-12:47pm at 12:47 pm (UTC -4)
It’s risky but find a middle reliever that has been as consistent as he has during his tenure. I would not go more than 2 but I am fine with 2.
stickguy
10/5/2010-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
he isn’t even a middle releiver though.
In this age of ridiculous over specialization, he is an OOGY.
you got long/mop up men, oogys, MRs, set up guys and closers.
And I think they get paid in reverse order of that list.
TRS86
10/5/2010-1:27pm at 1:27 pm (UTC -4)
I can see your point but in today’s game an oogy can be very valuable. Especially a LH one.
stickguy
10/5/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
wow. something that is actually worth reading (hard to argue with any of the points, and hopefully the new “heavy hitter” brought in can beat back the level of invlovement from above and restore the nimbleness).
and from Rubin of all people. Maybe this is his campaign platform, and he is running against megdal?
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/11166/required-skill-set
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
Very easy though for Rubin – or anyone – to write a piece like this now. All have the benefit of hindsight.
I’d be more impressed with someone who wrote a piece like this outlining what the Mets needed to do back when Omar was hired.
We all know the mistakes now made in the past several years. I don’t need Rubin to point them out to me.
(Yeah, and my anti-Rubin bias is showing……)
TRS86
10/5/2010-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
It’s no longer called anti-Rubin bias. It’s called truth. He has shown over and over that the possibility of Omar having a point is very probable.
wannybackstra
10/5/2010-1:20pm at 1:20 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t understand why all of this “anti-Rubin” sentiment exists, considering that began with an incident in which Rubin was proven right.
stickguy
10/5/2010-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
right or wrong, from the perception that after the “incident”, he went on somewhat of a vendetta (aided and abeted by his fellow writers) to get payback on the Mets.
TRS86
10/5/2010-1:25pm at 1:25 pm (UTC -4)
I think over time it will be proven that Omar was right on him as well.
However, I have grown more dissatisfied with his level of work since the issue. I can not help myself but think that many of his articles come across as him having an axe to grind. Perhaps that is not true but no amount of words can make me think otherwise.
wannybackstra
10/5/2010-1:30pm at 1:30 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe reading Rubin’s own words would help. Most of the article on ESPN NY are straight news reporting without commentary. Look for yourself:
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/
TRS86
10/5/2010-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
I have already read that one.
TRS86
10/5/2010-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
As well as most of his Tweets.
Thanks for the link though.
wannybackstra
10/5/2010-2:30pm at 2:30 pm (UTC -4)
Which one? There’s hundreds of articles there. Most of them do not offer any commentary.
I understand that Ceetar won’t appreciate anything with something less than outright praise but I figured you could at least be objective enough to read the articles without assuming he grinds an axe in each of them.
TRS86
10/5/2010-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
I thought you were sending me back to the one just linked.
However, I am rational enough to know that I am most likely bias. However, it is clear to me that he has an axe to grind and it comes across in much of his work. That is from his articles, to twitter to his interviews. Again that is the impression I have and I can’t see that changing anytime soon.
Ceetar
10/5/2010-1:34pm at 1:34 pm (UTC -4)
Uh..what?
Scroll back to an article/interview he did with Wright about three weeks ago. Criminal. He spent basically the entire interview trying to goad Wright into saying it sucks in NY.
He colors most of his tweets in negative “Mets suck” tones. Always tries to make a point connecting a news item to some negative perception of the team. i.e. “Mets didn’t shut down XXX immediately. played short last night. Prevention and recovery.”
wannybackstra
10/5/2010-1:52pm at 1:52 pm (UTC -4)
read all of the articles linked on the Web site rather than cherry picking one interview from three weeks ago (do you know how many articles he wrote since three weeks ago?). Anyway, I highly doubt your judgment as to whether he was trying to goad anyone into anything.
And tweets do not equal = articles and have no context to them.
TRS86
10/5/2010-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
Again, speaking for me I am sorry but I can’t help but have that perception when I read any of his work. Does not really matter if it is true or not but he comes across to me as a beat writer scorn to me and I no longer have the same value for his work as I did. Sorry.
Ceetar
10/5/2010-2:12pm at 2:12 pm (UTC -4)
Why would I waste my time continuing to read articles that provide nothing? I follow links when someone suggests them as good reads, or interesting information. I figured an interview with David might be interesting, clicked through, and was disgusted.
If he has something useful to say, I’ll read it. Everyone will be talking about it. More often than not (and this goes for almost all the main writers), it’s not worth reading. Metsblog and Google neatly summerize everything going on, and make it easier not to have to read a dozen crappy opinion paragraphs to get to any useless information.
Mr North Jersey
10/5/2010-2:57pm at 2:57 pm (UTC -4)
“Why would I waste my time continuing to read articles that provide nothing?”
I think if that is how you or anyone else feels Ceetar then of course it goes without saying that those that feel that way should not read said articles.
I think we can all agree that one’s preferences when it comes to the media is as diverse as one’s likes or dislikes in food.
Just because one likes or doesn’t like any one in particular doesn’t mean someone someone else is wrong if they do or don’t otherwise.
Mr North Jersey
10/5/2010-2:59pm at 2:59 pm (UTC -4)
For the record Ceetar I wasn’t trying to suggest you was saying it was wrong if ppl like reading Rubin. OK?.
GravediggerHebner
10/5/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
I’m in agreement with Wanny’s assessment of the situation.
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-1:43pm at 1:43 pm (UTC -4)
I can’t speak for anyone else but….
I’m not saying the facts as Rubin presents them in his articles are wrong. Very often they are right on the money.
It’s the snide little pot shots he’s been taking since moving to ESPN that bugs me. It’s especially prevalent in his Q&A chats he does. He thinks he’s oh so funny and clever.
I’m almost hoping the Mets right this ship sooner rather than later for the sheer enjoyment of seeing whether Rubin can switch gears and be able to choke on having to report on all things positive for the Mets…..
Mr North Jersey
10/5/2010-12:55pm at 12:55 pm (UTC -4)
I am glad that you can admit your anti-Rubin bias was showing.
That is why we all luv you here.
You are always honest with your thoughts.
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-1:46pm at 1:46 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah, I always try and make it clear that most of my posts are just my opinion – which may or may not be right. Sometimes I’m adamant about my opinion but that’s what’s great about this site. As long as I keep it clean, no one is going to ban me for having an unpopular opinion….
TRS86
10/5/2010-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
Already things I don’t agree with. The Mets never said and it can only be implied that the reason they did not go after Oswalt was money. A major reason could very well be that they did not trust his health issues, did not want to give up Niese (or a Happ equivalent) nor does it factor in the fact that many GM’s were upset that Houston had not let it be known they would be willing to eat that much cash.
Not every non-move the Mets make is as a result of money.
TRS86
10/5/2010-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
Or perhaps his common sense line on Evans. “Yet Evans played only a game and a half in the outfield in the minors this season. What happened when he was called up? He only played outfield.”
Is it possible that the old administration had no plans for Evans other than trade bait and thought his value might be increased by showing he could play on position competently?
stickguy
10/5/2010-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
evans was more an indictment on Jerry, especially when he was sitting on the bench while Hessman got starts at 3B.
and not telling the manager plans for certain guys (in garbage time) is an indictment of the GM. But, at that pint, Omar likely knew he was gone, so probably had less incentive to care!
lame ducks are never pretty.
and he played inf. mostly at AAA since they had an abundance of OFs.
stickguy
10/5/2010-1:02pm at 1:02 pm (UTC -4)
yes, that part is certainly conjecture, but conceptually, the point is valid. None of us actually know what the true ain’t going above it payroll level is (or was for 2010). But their will absolutely be more money free after 2011.
Doesn’t mean that the new guy can’t spend more than the 130, or 140, or whatever the 2010 budget was. And of course, hopefully they move some salary in any trades.
I really can see someone coming in and doing a quick clean up of dead wood/contracts, and plugging holes as needed sith ST solutins for 2010, then rolling the dice while concentrating on rebuilding the organization top to bottom, and making the big splash next off season.
the roster, contracts, everything just seem to make this approach a natural way to go.
njstuckintx
10/5/2010-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
+1
njstuckintx
10/5/2010-1:35pm at 1:35 pm (UTC -4)
At least Jeff wore Mets Colors. No orange, Fred? for shame…
GravediggerHebner
10/5/2010-1:38pm at 1:38 pm (UTC -4)
In the context of some recent goings on here at TRDMB I think this link is a great read:
http://joeposnanski.si.com/2010/10/05/bring-back-sports-arguments/
TRS86
10/5/2010-1:50pm at 1:50 pm (UTC -4)
That was a great read. Worthy of a post on here with a link in my opinion. I will leave that to you though.
Mr North Jersey
10/5/2010-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
Nice, Very thought provoking.
2 for 2 so far today by RDM Memebers and the links they have provided.
1st was Stick with Rubin’s article and now Grave with Posnanski’s article.
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-2:06pm at 2:06 pm (UTC -4)
Thanks for sharing, Grave. This was a great read, partly because I’m in the 20% of the population that doesn’t shy away from confrontation. I don’t revel in it, as others might, but I’ll never back down from it, especially if it’s going to affect something in my life or heck…someone is trying to stuff a ‘wrong’ down my throat when I know I’m right.
I especially like it because of how he tied it into baseball – particularly sabermetrics:
I cannot tell you how many people have sent me emails quoting one of my favorite statistics, Wins Above Replacement, as if that’s an argument-ender. No! To me WAR is an argument STARTER. That’s what’s beautiful about it. The fact that (according to Baseball Reference) Felix Hernandez has a 6.0 WAR and CC Sabathia has a 5.4 WAR doesn’t end the Cy Young debate for me. It starts it.’
**********************************
I couldn’t agree more with this statement and the premise of it. You can’t build a roster on strictly stats, anymore than you can on ‘heart and fire’. Have to look at the complete package, what you’re trying to build, what you want the club to accomplish.
And maybe…just maybe sometimes you look at a quiet, never heard from 35 year old journeyman pitcher whose career has been mostly minor league and not particularly successful at that and you take a chance on him. Due to circumstances with your starting 5, he becomes your fan base’s (mostly) favorite player of the year – given them something to feel good about in what turned out to be a lost year.
Yes, I’m talking about RA Dickey. This season would have been even more dismal had Omar not taking a chance on him.
TRS86
10/5/2010-1:58pm at 1:58 pm (UTC -4)
I like this one myself. From MB comment section:
” gameball
Oct 05, 2010, 1:52 pm at 1:52 pm #
Seriously, sometimes I wonder if other teams’ blogsites send moles here to plant evil seeds and torment the fanbase.”
stickguy
10/5/2010-2:52pm at 2:52 pm (UTC -4)
I believe the phillie ones do.
and we are depending on MF to fight back for all of us!
TRS86
10/5/2010-2:54pm at 2:54 pm (UTC -4)
This one was in reference to some poster who wanted to trade David Wright and Ike Davis with a net of Clay B and Prince Fielder.
stickguy
10/5/2010-2:59pm at 2:59 pm (UTC -4)
certainly an interesting plan.
I think I get your point. Instead of being obvious phillie/brave/yankee fans over to gloat, they are pretending to be Met fans and just trying to stir up dissent?
TRS86
10/5/2010-3:07pm at 3:07 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah. That and posters who say trade REeYES for Buckhultz are actually tormenting them.
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-3:39pm at 3:39 pm (UTC -4)
It’s not me!
LOL…I only read other fan base blogs.
TRS86
10/5/2010-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
Also another thing that I keep reading that bothers me.
I keep seeing that fans want a GM that is open with the fans and tells them this and tells them that… and is in touch with the fanbase….
And they want a manager that is honest with the fans and blah blah blah.
I want a GM and a manager that does the best for the Mets regardless of what the fans want or think period.
Ceetar
10/5/2010-2:13pm at 2:13 pm (UTC -4)
Exactly. I don’t want a GM tipping his hand just to keep me informed. butt out. We don’t need to know more than “we want pitching”
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-2:38pm at 2:38 pm (UTC -4)
Well, to be fair, the Wilpons (forget which one said this -might have been Fred), stated they realize there was a communication problem within the organization that was translating negatively to the fan base. He said more often than note he told all to be honest about any situation, especially injuries. He commented many times though the exact opposite was done.
I wondered at the time if that was a pot shot at Omar or implying that Omar was the one being deliberately vague or out and out covering up and/or the Mets PR people were – saying Omar didn’t have a handle on what was being released/what wasn’t.
TRS86
10/5/2010-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
I do think that the Mets in the last few years have done a great job of creating media issues. Unfortunately that is not something that produces wins.
Again, I really don’t care what the GM or the owners or the manager says to the fans in the media. I just want results.
Ceetar
10/5/2010-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
I’m not sure it’s even just that.
Honestly, one of things I’d like to see is less leaks. Sometimes it seems the information just gets out too quickly, and beat writers chomping at the bit and incomplete and often inaccurate information gets out, but that first bit is usually the bit that sticks, even if it turns out later the issue was basically nothing.
TRS86
10/5/2010-2:49pm at 2:49 pm (UTC -4)
All and all I think the Omar regime did a good job keeping things close to their vest. The problem is that today the media can just make inferences on what is going on and pass it off as truth with little to know consequences. Always jumping ahead of the story itself.
stickguy
10/5/2010-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
I want a GM that (politely of course) tells the fans to MYOB, you just have to wait and see what happens. The only thing he “owes” the fans is to put the best team on the field that he can.
other than that, you get the usual “pitching, defense, speed, youth” blather which means little, and seems to piss off the fan base even more than saying nothing.
Best as I can tell, what the fans really seem to be asking for is a GM to come in and say “yes the team blows, and the talent sucks, so we are going to gut the place, and suck for years and years and years, so check back in around 2014 to see if we are still here”
Of course, the same fans will then yell and scream that this is NY, we deserve a winner, you can’t rebuild, etc.
So take the expected “we will explore every avenue to make the team better this year, and for years to come, and will do everything we can to put a winning team on the field that you can be proud of”. It is all you are getting. Not “of course we are trading Beltran no matter what the rteturn is!”
TRS86
10/5/2010-3:09pm at 3:09 pm (UTC -4)
I think people forget that it’s ok to change your mind and your plan based on life’s circumstances.
Example last off-season the Wilpons said they planned on being aggressive. We have no idea if they were aggressive or not but perhaps they found out the market was ridiculous and changed plans. Why would that not be ok and why should I care that they did change plans? Would we rather them have proceeded with that plan and set the team back even further with long term deals to guys like Lackey?
stickguy
10/5/2010-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
sticking to a plan come hell or high water is a recipe for disaster. and how you end up with 2nd tier players at 1st tier pay.
The logic applie sto 2 years ago. Met plan: hig end SP (#2 guy to support Santana).
But, when the only seemingly viable option (Lowe) was gone, they tried to stick a square peg (ollie) into that round hole. Oops.
Much better to revistit the plan, and move on to B. Something I have said for years, go where the market takes you, and don’t chase a rare commodity, because you think you “have” to have it.
TRS86
10/5/2010-3:17pm at 3:17 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. Flexibility without fear of ridicule. That might be a good trait.
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
+1
stickguy
10/5/2010-4:21pm at 4:21 pm (UTC -4)
Hey, I think I am +3 or 4 on the day.
is this like green stamps? Where do I go to redeem my prize?
GravediggerHebner
10/5/2010-3:24pm at 3:24 pm (UTC -4)
As far as TRS’ comment about being bothered by fans wanting “a GM that is open with the fans” my feeling is, aside from the other things I want from my GM and focusing solely on the communication skills, I just want my GM to be able to communicate successfully.
I think for the most part Omar Minaya provided a living example of someone who did not communicate successfully so my short answer would be “the opposite of that.”
I listen to and enjoy interviews with other GMs around baseball. A surprising resource for these is the Saturday FAN show of Evan Roberts, over the last few years he has had many GMs from around the league call in. Without exception every one of these that I heard featured a GM who expressed himself better than Minaya.
I don’t necessarily want or need the GM to be giving me some “insiders view” of what he had going on. What I do want is someone who not only has a vision but can provide a glimpse at it without revealing unnecessary specifics. I want a GM to field a question and not have the best part of his answer be “uh” or “that’s a good question” or a laugh.
Recently I heard Cashman on with Francesa and Cashman went over an excellent (IMO) rundown of his motivations, looking back, during the 09-10 off season and how things happened with Johnny Damon and Hideki Matsui and Nick Johnson. He was very matter of fact and I after the interview I felt I had enough of a basic understanding of his and the Yankees position during that time period.
I have never at any point felt during the Minaya regime, even in similar circumstances to the Cashman interview in a context in which Minaya might be looking back at past events, that there was a coherent concept to what the organization was doing and why it was doing it. At worst they didn’t have a coherent concept, at best they were bad at communicating it. So that’s why I would like the next guy/girl to be able to sit down and talk to a sports interviewer and actually have a reasonable exchange through which the reader/listener can gather some sense that this person has an idea and can communicate that idea.
No more “the folks at the bagel shop said get a relief pitcher so I got a relief pitcher.” Please.
stickguy
10/5/2010-3:40pm at 3:40 pm (UTC -4)
entirely reasonable.
TRS86
10/5/2010-3:45pm at 3:45 pm (UTC -4)
I understand, I just don’t see a need for the GM to communicate anything about his plans to me or to the media. I don’t really care what they say in the media only what they actually do and if the Mets win or not.
GravediggerHebner
10/5/2010-4:13pm at 4:13 pm (UTC -4)
That strikes me as a perfectly reasonable stance and while it is not my goal to convince you to change your mind I would like to expand on why I feel the way I do.
I think in the 21st century, in New York City the so-called “media capital of the world,” that it is important to have some media savvy in addition to being good at your job. Just media savvy alone is not enough, and what I’m saying is that in my opinion at this stage just being good at your job isn’t good enough either.
MF4D summed up my thoughts on it below quite well in her 2nd paragraph. Things have been pretty bad for the Mets organization the last few years throughout and beyond baseball. If during that time the team had, instead of Omar Minaya and Jerry Manuel, two people who were more media savvy and better able to express themselves and their points of view, the ridicule of the Mets would precisely because of that have been less. There would have been plenty of opportunity to pile on the Mets but it would have been more complicated than simply parroting “ju no wut ahm sayeen?” and thus have eliminated a lot of the volume and perhaps some of the overblown nature of the ridicule.
It would have reduced the opportunities to criticize the Mets to more factual things and less “tee hee” things.
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-4:20pm at 4:20 pm (UTC -4)
Bingo.
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-3:48pm at 3:48 pm (UTC -4)
I’ve tried to avoid all things Francesa the second half of the season but I did happen to catch that Cashen interview. First thing that struck me, even though I hate the Yankees, was how well spoken he is. Could have been all BS, but he sounded intelligent, sincere and believable.
I remember thinking to myself ‘if we had a GM that came across half as intelligent we’d have half the battle won’. Sigh…
Now…hopefully we’ll get someone who not only what you point out but can articulate it as well.
Mr North Jersey
10/5/2010-3:13pm at 3:13 pm (UTC -4)
I just want a GM that can build a winning team now and for many years to come.
What qualities he must have to accomplish that mean little to me so long as he can deliver a winner.
It is kind of F*cked up 2 say but it is the truth as far as I am concerned. He could be the biggest douche bag ever but if he can get the job done then as a fan that is what I want to see.
It be nice if the GM had all the qualities that are well respected in our society but as long as he plays by the rules that is really all I am concerned with if he can deliver results.
TRS86
10/5/2010-3:15pm at 3:15 pm (UTC -4)
Yeah I agree. Don’t care how he is perceived by the fans or what he says in the media. Just win and it won’t matter.
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-4:01pm at 4:01 pm (UTC -4)
JUST GET ME A WINNER!
(Does that say it all plain enough for us? LOL)
I don’t know about you all but I’m not getting any younger. Would like to live long enough to see at least one more championship. A dynasty would be nice…..1986 was way too long ago.
Mr North Jersey
10/5/2010-4:06pm at 4:06 pm (UTC -4)
I guess I should start lookin at who else I can throw my endorsement for Mets GM behind since it seems Hunsicker doesn’t seem that much interested at being a GM. It;s not like he had a real shot at it anyways I suppose.
“Mr. Hunsicker, 60, formerly the general manager of the Houston Astros and an executive with the Mets, told the Wall Street Journal in a phone interview that he “did not have a burning passion” to be a GM again and didn’t think he would pursue any such openings this off-season.
“I guess you don’t close the door on anything,” said Mr. Hunsicker, now a senior vice-president with the Tampa Bay Rays. “But to me, it would have to be a very special situation.” He declined to define what would constitute a “special situation.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703465504575528741112106772.html
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-4:24pm at 4:24 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, that sounds like someone who is thinking to himself something along the lines of ‘I’d have to be out of my mind to leave this relatively stress free, enjoyable job to take on the GM of the current NY Mets and try and fix that franchise while under the media microscope that is NY’.
stickguy
10/5/2010-4:27pm at 4:27 pm (UTC -4)
that wasn’t just for the mets. That sounds like soemone that does not want the hassle for any team.
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-4:25pm at 4:25 pm (UTC -4)
On another note, this is interesting…..
Jeff Wilpon calls David Wright to explain his comments about listening to trade talks for Mets star.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2010/10/05/2010-10-05_owner_calls_wright_to_explain_trade_comments.html
Ceetar
10/5/2010-4:29pm at 4:29 pm (UTC -4)
Of course, you should never anger the captain of your team. Never hurts to check in and explain.
stickguy
10/5/2010-4:46pm at 4:46 pm (UTC -4)
yes, even with everything going on in NY, it was a nice (and smart) thing for him to do to put in the call.
stickguy
10/5/2010-4:30pm at 4:30 pm (UTC -4)
I think the original comment was 100% appropriate. As was Wrights response when asked.
so while there is nothing to see here, move along people, I am sure that plenty of media types will try to blow it or twist it all out of proportion.
njstuckintx
10/5/2010-4:31pm at 4:31 pm (UTC -4)
That conversation should have gone like this…. “David? It’s Jeff. I’m in control. I pay the bills and I pay your salary. Enjoy the offseason and see you in the Spring.”
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-4:54pm at 4:54 pm (UTC -4)
And I’ll go on record as saying I will join whatever lynch mob is formed if the new GM does indeed trade Wright. I don’t care who he gets back.
It’s been way too long since we had a homegrown player who started and retired with the Mets – and he wasn’t an All Star or possibly HOF candidate – just a very solid, fan favorite.
In fact we’ve only had that one and it was Ed Kranepool.
Mr North Jersey
10/5/2010-4:59pm at 4:59 pm (UTC -4)
So even if the trade results in the Mets getting a player that is instrumental in the Mets winning a World Series you don’t care?
I am sure even you would admit that if by chance God forbid that were to happen and Wright was traded away and as you said you’d form a lynch mob.
You will also for a Thank you mob if later it results in winning a title right?
Mr North Jersey
10/5/2010-5:00pm at 5:00 pm (UTC -4)
should say “form a” not “for a”.
stickguy
10/5/2010-5:06pm at 5:06 pm (UTC -4)
NJ, I am with you on this one.
I am not that big on homegrown (other than being a cost effective way to have players), or needing to keep a guy his full career. I just want good players (even if brought in from elsewhere), and am big on getting rid of guys before their skills are shot.
If the next GM decides the best way to make the team a winner is to trade wright (for a boatload of course!), then I certainly will root for the load of boat to kick ass too.
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-5:16pm at 5:16 pm (UTC -4)
Wright IS a good player. I’m not advocating keeping a Frenchy type player b/c he might be the fan favorite of the month.
I don’t believe Wright’s skills are deteriorating. In fact in order to get that boatload back, the new GM would have to market Wright as an elite pick up for some team.
If he does this, he’s telling us we’re officially in the rebuilding mode then. I just don’t think we need to get that drastic – yet…
Just my opinion. Check back with me in a couple of years. That could all change……
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-5:10pm at 5:10 pm (UTC -4)
No, no, no….I said I’d JOIN the lynch mob, not form it. lol….
For the record, yes…that’s what I’m saying.
While the ultimate goal as I’m sure we’ll all agree, is to win a WS, that’s usually few and far between for most clubs – especially multiple WS in any one decade.
So…while we’re tolling away trying to get the WS, I, for one, would like to be rooting for a team all season that includes players I actually like to root for and what better example of that then our very own home grown, 3rd base All Star?
In reverse, even though it might makes sense on some planet to go all in and try and acquire Werth, I know it would be some time before I could put my hands together and clap for him when he came up to bat in a Met uniform…
Yeah, I’d have no choice to go along with it (cause no matter who wears the uniform they’re still my beloved Mets) and it might be a very smart move, but I know I’m gonna hate it…
Mr North Jersey
10/5/2010-5:18pm at 5:18 pm (UTC -4)
I can relate on the Werth thing. I had a real dislike for Sheffield when he played here for things he did in his past but like you said once they put the uniform on it is kind of hard to not root for them to do well.
I will say in Sheffield’s case I did grow to respect him more as the season went along and though I have issues with things he did in the past. As a Met I can’t say he did anything to make me ashamed to see him in the uniform.
metsfan4decades
10/5/2010-5:33pm at 5:33 pm (UTC -4)
True, but thankfully I think that’s because his tenure here was short. lol.
Mr North Jersey
10/5/2010-5:40pm at 5:40 pm (UTC -4)
Good Point.
oleosmirf
10/5/2010-6:43pm at 6:43 pm (UTC -4)
I am vehemently against trading Wright. who’s to say that these current starts like Evan Longoria, Carlos Gonzalez, Joey Votto or even Albert Pujols could come to NY and put up the numbers Wright did last season.
sure his clutch stats have gone down tremendously since 2007 but he still is better than anyone who we could possibly get in return.
Reyes is a completely different story. His OBP last season was terrible but i will give him 1 more year to prove he can return to being the best leadoff hitter (outside of Ichiro) in baseball.
Mr North Jersey
10/5/2010-7:04pm at 7:04 pm (UTC -4)
No one is advocating trading Wright.
The point is that if trading Wright was what led to finally winning a W.S.
I am sure that those that are opposed would come around and in retrospect thank the GM for having the balls to do a move that played a integral part in winning a W.S.
Believe me trading Wright had better lead to a positive end or else the GM will be burned in effigy most likely.
oleosmirf
10/5/2010-6:43pm at 6:43 pm (UTC -4)
I am vehemently against trading Wright. who’s to say that these current starts like Evan Longoria, Carlos Gonzalez, Joey Votto or even Albert Pujols could come to NY and put up the numbers Wright did last season.
sure his clutch stats have gone down tremendously since 2007 but he still is better than anyone who we could possibly get in return.
Reyes is a completely different story. His OBP last season was terrible but i will give him 1 more year to prove he can return to being the best leadoff hitter (outside of Ichiro) in baseball.
Prismo
10/5/2010-6:57pm at 6:57 pm (UTC -4)
Wright hit .836 OPS with RISP this season, which isn’t much lower than his overall OPS of .856.