As another Met-free postseason begins, this Met fan since birth will again reluctantly be admiring the Phillies.
To this writer, over the last few years, there has not really been another team in the game which both conjures up memories of the great Met teams of the 1980s, and also is an organization which has done just about everything right recently.
The 1984-1988 Mets just reached the postseason twice and only won it all once, but they were excellent year-in and year-out. They won 90 or more games for five straight years, and had there been a wild card, they would have been in the playoffs all five years.
Those Mets were extremely solid, had homegrown stars as well as great players brought in by trade, had a knack of getting fine play out of players who did not do as well elsewhere, and were able to overcome injuries and still perform at a very high level year after year.
Their manager knew how to use his players; they always seemed to be in position to maximize their abilities, whether it was the fantastic second base platoon, the use of four outfielders, the very deep bullpen, or the excellent role players on the bench.
Toughness? Even when they missed the postseason, no one ever questioned the toughness of that team–even first base coach Bill Robinson insitgated a fight with Pirate pitcher Rick Rhoden.
While the Phillies are not the overtly violent fighters and lawbreakers those Mets were, they certainly do bring back some memories of how a team that maintains a high level of play over several years conducts itself.
Yes, Chase Utley leans into pitches and slides really hard into second base. How many Met fans can honestly say that he and Victorino would not be among our very favorites were they wearing the orange and blue? Yes, Utley’s slide into Tejada was questionable, but that’s baseball at the highest level and how it is played by tough, winning teams. Do Phillie players spew laughably hollow tough talk after games as David Wright did in the clubhouse to reporters after Utley’s slide? Doubtful.
Acquiring Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, and Roy Oswalt–three of the game’s best and most sought-after pitchers–in a period of roughly a year is just plain amazing. While the Phils have become one of the game’s highest spenders, they still spend nowhere near as much as the post-George Yankees, who know quite well that unless they outspend the Red Sox by 30-40%–and the Rays by maybe 200%–that they stand little chance of making the postseason. And a look at the game’s biggest spenders generally puts the Phils in fourth place–right behind the Cubs, and right ahead of the Mets and the Tigers. And about five spots ahead of the Mariners. Which all goes to show, with the exception of Tampa, that while it is true that annual contention is generally mostly the province of the big spenders, the Mets’ sorry results with all of their often-injured hugely expensive players points out that there is definitely a lot more to winning than simply having one of the game’s top 10 budgets.
Howard, Utley, Rollins, and Hamels were all drafted by the Phils. Trades brought Halladay, Oswalt, and Lidge. Victorino came via the Rule 5 draft. And Ibanez and Werth were signed as free agents. Pretty similar to the 1980s Mets, isn’t it all? A healthy combo of homegrown talent, great trades, and other pickups along the way.
The hatred of the Phils by a segment of Met fandom is understandable, as for four straight years they have left us in the dust, creating a run better than at any other time in the team’s century-plus history, with the possible exception of the great teams from 1976-1983. Should the Phils win it all this year, they will unquestionably have to be considered among the very best teams of the last 30 years.
Is the hatred reasonable, or is it just jealousy? This is hard to judge. This writer was reared by a wonderful father who grew up a Brooklyn Dodger fan–and as the Dodgers lost to the Yankees in the World Series again and again in the 1940s and 1950s (six out of seven matchups!) Yankee hatred can be understood.
Do Met fans hate the Phils for being dirty showoffs or just for winning?
Is Utley’s play really that dirty, or is he simply like Jackie Robinson, Pete Rose or Lenny Dykstra–a player who will use every reasonable opportunity to gain an advantage on his opposition?
Is Victorino a showboat on the level of Jose Reyes? And if he is, is it different to be this way when your team wins every year?
This writer thought that the constant curtain calls and multiple major fights in 1986 were thrilling and made that team even more memorable–but they all occured in the context of season-long domination of the rest of the league.
The feeling here is that the Phils really are not all that bad of a group. Hating their success is one thing, but hating Utley for playing hard when one worships the violent teams that the 1980s Mets undoubtedly were seems a tad hypocritical. In the same vein, calling out Victorino for his showboating when many seem to enjoy the same from Jose–when our team basically gets worse every year–also seems kind of odd.
The Phils simply are an outstandingly constructed team, whose players have both the talent and the undeniable desire to win which the 1986 Mets had. Their manager does not bunt constantly; he even lets the lower-placed hitters swing away in an admirably aggressive style. Their front office does not acquire huge stars by bludgeoning the league with money; they make shrewd trades. And then they fill in their holes with second-tier free agents.
This writer would truly prefer to have seen the Mets follow the promise of 2006 with a few more playoff appearances rather than the four-year run of incredibly expensive failures which we have all seen. But the fact of the matter is that these Phils overcome adversity and injuries, they play aggressively, and they just keep on winning. Their front office keeps making great acquisitions, and their manager uses the team’s talent in a way that maximizes their chances to win.
In other words, they are absolutely and positively everything we wish the Mets were over the last four years. And weren’t close to being.
Here’s hoping the Wilpons take a look at what the Phils have done in this period and try to learn something.
37 comments
Mr North Jersey
10/6/2010-8:32pm at 8:32 pm (UTC -4)
Well I can almost guarantee you one thing Kingy, you will get a lot of comments.
Mr North Jersey
10/6/2010-8:33pm at 8:33 pm (UTC -4)
Not to hijack your post Kingy but when I read this I though of you.
Pinch Me
You don’t realize how hard it is to find a good pinch-hitter until you take a closer look at the stats. National League pinch-hitters batted .223 with a .293 on-base percentage in 2010 and that’s not far off from what they do on an annual basis.
In Chris Carter, the Mets found someone who can handle the role well. Carter finished with a .328 batting average and 19 hits as a pinch-hitter. He performed in a manner resembling those who were some his best predecessors: Rusty Staub, Matt Franco, and Marlon Anderson, while his cohorts in reserve performed at a below-average level (.203 batting average).
With runners on base, Carter was a valuable bat over a limited sampling. In 28 pinch-hitting situations, he had 10 hits, two walks, and advanced runners via out on three occasions. He made the most of his opportunity, doing just about everything that could be asked of him. Will that warrant another look in 2010? We hope so.
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/mets/post/_/id/11178/2010s-significant-developmets-part-i
stickguy
10/6/2010-9:36pm at 9:36 pm (UTC -4)
He would only love him if he was on the Phillies.
wannybackstra
10/6/2010-10:08pm at 10:08 pm (UTC -4)
this guy is obviously kissing up to the mets in hopes of getting a job in the general manager’s office.
Mr North Jersey
10/6/2010-10:10pm at 10:10 pm (UTC -4)
did u read the article wanny about 2nd base?
wannybackstra
10/6/2010-10:13pm at 10:13 pm (UTC -4)
I did. I was just joking with those conspiracy theorists who have pegged Adam Rubin, Simon’s colleague at ESPN NY, as a bitter and jilted ex-girlfriend. (and note that I am certain that these people don’t even read the ESPN NY articles as some have even admitted)
In any event, the offensive futility at 2B was just that… offensive and futile.
TRS86
10/7/2010-7:45am at 7:45 am (UTC -4)
Who are THESE people? I have read many of his articles and how can you call someone out for something they perceive? So you don’t see it that way, big deal.
stickguy
10/6/2010-9:35pm at 9:35 pm (UTC -4)
PHilly lover. I hear Beerleauger is looking for authors. Just make sure to use small words.
I hate and despise the phillies. And their fans. And always will.
stickguy
10/6/2010-9:37pm at 9:37 pm (UTC -4)
actually, you already have your first piece for them all done.
TRS86
10/6/2010-9:39pm at 9:39 pm (UTC -4)
Here fishy fishy fishy. Here fishy fishy fishy. Mmmmmm, good bait; LOL.
Prismo
10/6/2010-9:55pm at 9:55 pm (UTC -4)
This could get ugly. I’m going to duck and cover.
TRS86
10/6/2010-9:58pm at 9:58 pm (UTC -4)
Lay back enjoy the show.
Everyday is a winding road.
Mr North Jersey
10/6/2010-9:59pm at 9:59 pm (UTC -4)
Prismo
10/6/2010-9:39pm at 9:39 pm (UTC -4)
No offense Kingman, but I can’t make it through your piece. I’m sure it’s well written and all, but I don’t want to reach so much about the Philthies. I’m sure you understand.
But on broader terms, this happens…teams make a few playoff runs and fade out, then fade back in a few years later. It’s baseball.
The Braves made the postseason 14 times in a row, then they suddenly didn’t make it for several years.
Mets made it in ’99 and ’00, then didn’t make it until ’06 (and were very close in both ’07 and ’08).
The Phillies hadn’t made the postseason since 1993, and have made it from ’07-’10.
It happens, it’s normal. The Phillies will eventually fade – let’s just hope they don’t have a 10+ year run like the Braves once did. And the Mets will come back to life and make the playoffs; probability says it will happen within the next few years.
TRS86
10/6/2010-9:46pm at 9:46 pm (UTC -4)
AGREED.
GravediggerHebner
10/6/2010-10:19pm at 10:19 pm (UTC -4)
Maybe it’s just my poor math background but I don’t understand why probability says the Mets will make the playoffs in the next few years.
Mr North Jersey
10/6/2010-10:23pm at 10:23 pm (UTC -4)
Don’t you know?
When you add the barometric pressure from Mets games since 2006 and then divide it by the average humidity over the same time. You get that probability says it will happen within the next few years.
I kid I kid Prismo
Much Luv
stickguy
10/6/2010-10:47pm at 10:47 pm (UTC -4)
well, the probability is that every team will eventually peak and have a down period.
some teams though may never experience the opposite.
Prismo
10/7/2010-12:11am at 12:11 am (UTC -4)
This is totally silly on my part, but I don’t have time to do a real statistical analysis this late at night. (when I have more time I’d love to find the average number of years between post season appearances for the entire set of teams)
But since the Mets made their first playoffs, in 1969 of course, they’ve averaged 7.5 years *between* playoff appearances.
This year was number 4, so we only have an average of 3.5 more crappy years until we strike gold! That’s gold Jerry, gold!
stickguy
10/7/2010-12:15am at 12:15 am (UTC -4)
don’t say Jerry around here!
Prismo
10/7/2010-12:16am at 12:16 am (UTC -4)
That’s gold Bobby V, gold!
Prismo
10/7/2010-12:16am at 12:16 am (UTC -4)
But without the numbers, stick said it perfectly.
Most teams have ups and downs. A couple teams have more ups (Yanks for example) and a few teams have more downs (Pirates, Nats, etc), but most are more like a rollercoaster.
TRS86
10/6/2010-9:48pm at 9:48 pm (UTC -4)
My only comments to this article are why do I need a rational or irrational reason to hate the Phillies? Can’t I just hate them because they are the Phillies?
2nd comment: No comment.
GravediggerHebner
10/6/2010-10:05pm at 10:05 pm (UTC -4)
I read it. I don’t hate the Phillies, as close to hate as I might feel for anything related to them I feel for Victorino who I believe is a hypocrite regarding celebrations so what I hate is his hypocrisy. I do respect the recent Phillies and their well earned accomplishments. They did a fine job of building their organization from within, having depth which allowed them to make key moves and allowing them to have low cost talent at some positions thus being able to spend lots of money at others.
But I don’t like them either and I have no particular interest in or desire to celebrate them. I have no interest in their goings on aside from how the Mets might be doing in relation to them, in the same way as any other division foe during the regular season, which is now over so I have no interest in what’s going on with them right now.
The only positive I derive from their presence in the post season is the opportunity to do something other than watch them play. In that way they’ve given me a lot of extra free time in the last few years. And for that I thank them.
TRS86
10/7/2010-7:47am at 7:47 am (UTC -4)
Agreed
Mr North Jersey
10/6/2010-10:07pm at 10:07 pm (UTC -4)
In spanish there is a saying “Ese no tiene pelo en la lengua”.
Translated means “that person has no hair on his tongue”.
It is used for people that have no reservations speaking their mind regardless of if someone may be offended or not.
Kingy fits that mold and I respect him for that.
I may not agree with a lot of what he says but I don’t think Kingy wants me to agree with him but rather just to listen to what he has to say and if you also happen to agree GREAT if not it don’t matter anyway.
I may be way off but that is how I like to think of it.
wannybackstra
10/6/2010-10:10pm at 10:10 pm (UTC -4)
Agreed. And well said. Though I find myself agreeing with Mr. Kingman a great deal of the time.
njstuckintx
10/6/2010-10:41pm at 10:41 pm (UTC -4)
Ah, Halladay… you and your no hitters…
stickguy
10/6/2010-11:55pm at 11:55 pm (UTC -4)
At least the Yankee game looked good for about 5 innings or so.
Guess it is back to watching poker reruns.
Prismo
10/7/2010-12:17am at 12:17 am (UTC -4)
Gonna watch MO blow it against the twins…
Prismo
10/7/2010-12:24am at 12:24 am (UTC -4)
or not
metsfan4decades
10/7/2010-8:41am at 8:41 am (UTC -4)
Ah……glad I didn’t see this until this morning after a Phillie and Yankee win.
I want to say upfront: Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have no problem with that.
‘Is it hatred or just jealousy’?
Why does it have to be one or the other?….is my question.
Using the word ‘hate’ in the context Stick so eloquently put it a few days ago – I hate the Phillies.
It’s a rivalry – much like the rivalry in the 90s with the Braves. I guess I’m not getting why that’s such an unpopular opinion with some Met fans. Why is it so easy to understand said ‘hatred’ for all things Yankees but not all things Phillies?
So fair is fair, if that’s premise meant to convey in this post. I expect to see a post along the lines of ‘Respect For The Yankees’.
After all, they’ve been far better than the Phillies for the past 20 years, they play the game hard, they’ve got ‘heart and grit’, etc., etc. And they’ve been on top far more than the current run of the Phillies.
Something tells me most here would choke on those words before they could finish a piece like that…..
TRS86
10/7/2010-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
Perhaps I can refer Mr. Baby to that one. Is the rare Mets Yankees fan.
No 4D you are correct, the Yanks deserve the same respect or even more so than the Phillies.
Also, there is no reason that we should have to justify hating a rival. Sports allow you to hate your rival.
njstuckintx
10/7/2010-9:01am at 9:01 am (UTC -4)
I have to say, I don’t hate the Phillies. I wish we had their starting pitching, that’s for sure. I guess what I do dislike about the Phillies are their fans (barring the left and right ladies in the picture caption to this story). In that same realm, that’s why I dislike the Yanks. Their fans. You’ve got Dirty Philly fans & Arrogant Yankee fans. Of all the teams that come closest to hate would be the Braves. Even though it’s been a long while, for 14 frickin years they just backhanded the Mets consistently. Terry Pendleton… Chipper… Smotlz/Glavine/Maddux… Their smarmy-ness drove me nuts.
But, I will say I’m going to miss Chipper when he is gone. It’s like the Death of Darth Vadar or something. You love hating him. And the bastage named his daughter Shea. Talk about a super-D-bag/villain to root against… He’ll be missed by me, for sure.
TRS86
10/7/2010-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
It’s strange though. For some reason as much as I hated the Braves during that time period I also respected them more than I do the Phillies now. Not to say again that I don’t respect how the Phillies have been built but I just think the Braves were a team that played the game in a way I respected much more.
njstuckintx
10/7/2010-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
Must be that “dirty” perception that Philly fans have.
njstuckintx
10/7/2010-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
And by that Dirty perception, I use the “sex for tickets” and the puking incident as 2 examples. I think Philly fan, I think of a Skinny dude wearing a wife beater who just pulled up in his camaro (with T tops off!) who’s favorite statement is “I only came here to do 2 things. Drink beer and kick ass. Almost out of beer…”