The feeling in Met Nation seems to be virtually unanimous—give the reigns to Sandy Alderson, let him hire a manager, get the Wilpons out of the room, and wait for the inevitable title.
Are we being a bit hasty?
Yes, the Oakland A’s from 1989-1991 were a great team. Three straight pennants, a World Series title, and publicity the Wilpons dream of.
But a close look at Alderson’s A’s tenure might be a bit illuminating.
He was the A’s GM from 1983-1997, a fifteen year period. The A’s had records over .500 in exactly five of those years, which included one fourth place finish amidst the four postseason appearances. In addition, those winning teams were led by the co-champions of steroid-inflated stats, Mark McGwire and Jose Canseco. How many other members of those great A’s teams were also using chemical enhancements?
Dave Stewart had been a mediocre journeyman pitcher who came alive at age 30 for four excellent years in Oakland from 1987-1990 and never did anything close to what he accomplished then before or after those four years. Those teams were undoubtedly loaded with talented players, but a close look shows that many of them had their best years during their time with the A’s, and often at advanced ages to be finally reaching their prime.
Does this mean they all were cheating? Absolutely not. But Canseco and McGwire were probably among the most successful cheaters in baseball’s steroid era, and much of what Canseco has said and written about those days—scoffed at at first—has turned out to be pretty accurate. Who knows how many others were also hiding in the bathroom stalls in Oakland Coliseum with syringes?
In addition, Alderson has not been an active GM since 1997. That’s a long time away from the game.
Would he be able to come right in, in a totally different era, and succeed? This is not Pat Gillick or Frank Cashen, who built more than one very successful team, and without the benefit of cheating stars.
The Mets have also been interviewing others, and a report this morning on Metsblog states that the Mets have asked permission to speak with Al Avila, Tigers Assistant GM, who was formerly with the Marlins’ scouting department. The Marlins’ scouting department? Hmmm. This man supposedly was responsible for drafting Adrian Gonzalez and Josh Beckett, and signing Miguel Cabrera.
A key figure from baseball’s best scouting department, coming to the Mets with their payroll and presence? To this writer, this sounds far more intriguing than asking Sandy Alderson to re-create success from over two decades ago, which was achieved in a far different sports world.
Another issue is the sabermetrics debate. Alderson is often credited with being at the forefront of the movement later championed by his successor Billy Beane, which wisely shifted some of the statistical focus of player evaluation. While this cannot be understated, it is also no longer a revolutionary movement or a secret; everyone uses OBP and SLG rather than simply BA and HR to judge players nowadays.
In addition to Avila, the Mets have interviewed Rick Hahn, currently the White Sox VP and Assistant GM, who is very highly regarded and has been named among the very best GM candidates in the game by both Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus. Hahn has diverse experience, as a contract negotiator, player evaluator, and statistician. He started as an agent, has studied advanced statistics, and fully understands sabermetrics and the most esoteric advanced stats used today.
Sandy Alderson clearly was a successful GM, a long time ago. He would be coming to the Mets with the clear endorsement of Bud Selig. Is this the right candidate?
It says here that the Mets should give very long, very serious consideration to men like Al Avila and Rick Hahn. As the people who scream for a GM and a manager with “experience” often easily forget, every single great MLB GM and manager at one time was in their very first job as an MLB GM or manager.
Let’s hope the Wilpons seriously consider what a man like Al Avila, from the best scouting department on the planet, could do if he was able to find another group like Beckett, AGonz, Cabrera and others and actually be able to keep them. Or what a universally highly regarded guy like Rick Hahn could do if given full control over a team with a large budget and huge resources.
Let’s not rush to judgment on Sandy Alderson due to his record of success with one team two long decades ago, which was clearly fueled at least in part by PEDs.
11 comments
metsfan4decades
10/16/2010-1:45pm at 1:45 pm (UTC -4)
Patrick Flood’s latest post on this is a comical comparison between the current candidates and late night talk show hosts. His conclusion is Alderson is over qualified and the rest uninspiring.
http://www.patrickfloodblog.com/2010/10/guide-to-the-mets-gm-candidates.html#more-689
I only know what I read about those interviewed so far. Have no idea if some inexperience is a negative, if working in NY for some would be a problem, if past success/failure would translate any differently in 2010 for some of these.
None of them have particularly ‘wowed’ me but I’m far from the best judge of what is needed. Probably more like I’m looking for a savior, that all around perfect candidate, who doesn’t really exist.
I’ll just have to trust the Wilpons to get it right.
Mr North Jersey
10/16/2010-2:07pm at 2:07 pm (UTC -4)
Man Kingy if you not commenting means you will provide these type of quality posts on a consistant basis then I am going to have to go duct tape your mouth shut and see how much better your posts get.
Now as to your post while you raise fair questions regarding Alderson. To wipe all that he did in Oakland with the steroid brush seems a bit of a stretch also.
The man is highly respected in baseball not just cause of what McGwire Canseco and Stewart did I would hope. I’d say look at his overall history and tell me what players he signed traded and drafted and then compare that to the 3 you mentioned and then maybe we can talk if his claim to fame is based on 3 individuals or not.
I do think though that you make a good case as to why Mets should be sure to not rush to judgment and I don’t see anything to suggest that they have other than some unnamed sources here and there.
I think Alderson’s time away as a GM should be a factor and if not Alderson than I hope they look hard at Hahn also.
Good post indeed. What time can I come over and duct tape your mouth for your next post?
kingman 26
10/16/2010-2:09pm at 2:09 pm (UTC -4)
Thank you sir!
My mouth is securely taped…..took three rolls of duct tape…
Mr North Jersey
10/16/2010-2:11pm at 2:11 pm (UTC -4)
Hahahahaha
njstuckintx
10/16/2010-2:58pm at 2:58 pm (UTC -4)
No kidding. King… Solid. Just plain solid.
stickguy
10/16/2010-2:33pm at 2:33 pm (UTC -4)
well, Alderson is being touted for more than his GM duties. He has much more recently been Sr. VP (grand poobah?) of the A’s, and then the Padres. As such, credited with building a strong organization, instilling a proper way of doing things, and most importantly, bringing in strong people to groom for top jobs.
Those talents are what, to me, puts him on a higher plain than a asst. GM/scouting guy. Avila might be some kind of rainman finder of prospects, but that is a relatively small part of a GMs duties. More accurately, there are people in charge of scouting and finding these guys, and it isn’t the GM doing the digging.
What the GM needs to be able to do is put the right team in place, give them clear parameters to follow, then be able to make decisions based on many layers of input.
and not matter how they pitch it, ALderson (IMO) will be a senior guy, with an Asst. serving as the “real” day to day GM
Mr North Jersey
10/16/2010-2:41pm at 2:41 pm (UTC -4)
Keep the faith. LoL
GravediggerHebner
10/16/2010-3:08pm at 3:08 pm (UTC -4)
It’s hard to know how many of Alderson’s A’s, or for that matter how many players on the rosters of all the other teams as well, were or were not using enhancers. Because of that I am reluctant to use that specifically as a strike against Alderson or any GM candidate.
While yes it is true that sabermetrics are no longer a secret and thus less of an advantage to incorporate, the Mets are as best as I can tell from where I sit an organization that has placed little emphasis on them thus far and therefore any new front office that utilizes them more is welcomed by me, whether that be Alderson, Hahn, or other.
I think a major factor in many people’s desire for Alderson is their thought (whether true or not) that the Wilpons are meddlers who have too much say, more than your average baseball team owner, in the daily duties of the front office. These people believe Alderson, of all the candidates interviewed thus far, has the best chance to stave off this meddling given his combination of age, experience, Marine training, and past success.
I was one who believed in this meddling. After their recent press conference, which could very well have been a sham I have no way to know, I relaxed a bit on my “those effin meddlers” stance. I took the Wilpons at their word. Maybe this was naive.
Certainly some occurrences since that press conference, such as the “Uncle Saul won’t like giving up his title” quote attributed to Jeff W and the alleged general notion that the team is interviewing some of these candidates not for the GM position but for a scouting director position suggest some meddling exists to this day.
But I’m trying to maintain my “the meddling was overblown” stance for now and given that I, as I think you state in this post, prefer one of the “next” GMs as opposed to a “past” GM such as Alderson.
So given all that, of the candidates that have had an interview, I want the one who can come to the Mets and through his vision, planning and execution, can become a person who has the experience and respect that Alderson does currently.
Someone who can be around with the Mets for a decade or more, securing their own legacy in the sport the way a John Schuerholtz or someone of his ilk did, by fielding a consistently good team based largely on a good farm system, ultimately by representing a consistently respected organization. Which of the candidates is that guy? I don’t know, I only know the one it isn’t and that’s Alderson.
So I am in favor of any of the other guys (except Baird, he’s already had a GM job and wasn’t particularly good at it in my opinion). I feel that would be the best way for the Mets to begin the longest successful period in their history – making the correct choice from among these young guns.
GravediggerHebner
10/16/2010-3:37pm at 3:37 pm (UTC -4)
Avila has a couple of things going for him that the average Mets fan will just love: he’s responsible for the Marlins acquiring Luis Castillo; and Fred Wilpon certainly has some affection for him since he’s the son of a former member of the Dodgers front office (Ralph Avila) and Tommy Lasorda is the godfather of his son.
stickguy
10/16/2010-5:02pm at 5:02 pm (UTC -4)
coupole of points:
1) at that time, most likely every team had cheaters (yankees were loaded too), so give him credit for being the most successful at incorporating “new technology”!
2) trying to formulate an opinion for the various reports is difficult, but I am thinking that the problem in the FO was not that the Wilpons had a voice, it was that EVERYONE had a voice, and the buck really did not stop anywhere. So the meddling idea I do think was overblown, since that mostly amounts to glorified advice to the GM.
so even if the wilpons still want to give their opinion to Alderson (or whoever is the GM), fine. The key is, the GM gets to be the final arbiter in making decisions.
True democracy never works in business. Someone has to be in charge, and able to make a decision for the group.
metsfan4decades
10/16/2010-5:27pm at 5:27 pm (UTC -4)
Good points, especially the last. ‘By committee’, running an organization is never a good idea.
I’m still waiting for the Mets to add Kim Ng to their list of potential candidates. I guess she would be considered the exact opposite of of a direction the Mets might want to go in if Alderson is their main candidate though.