" The sun sets for Shines"
Well it seems like Sandy Alderson has started the healing process for us Mets fans yesterday. No I am not talking about the hiring of his former protege, J.P Riccardi as a senior advisor. I am talking about the severing of ties with former Mets third base coach and Jerry Manuel confidant, Anthony ” Razor ” Shines !
Look I am not here to bash Shines as a person. He from what I have seen first hand and heard from various sources a very good man. He would always in between innings find a young child in the stands and made sure they would receive
a game used ball. He was also very accessible with the fan base in general.
But let’s face it his lack of restraint as a third base coach during that mind numbing ’09 season ( He made Willie ” Wave ‘em Home” Randolph’s tenure with the Yankees look subdued in comparison). It was obvious that Mets players were either second guessed his judgements or just didn’t have much respect for him after a bunch of blown scoring attempts in the first couple of months of that season. You would never confuse him with such third base coaching luminaries such as John Stearns, Sam Perlazzo or hell even Bobby Valentine. Instead he will always be spoken in the same breath as Mike Cubbage or Sandy Alomar . You know that the perception of Shines as a third base coach was bad when last season in order to protect him from us rabid and outspoken Mets fans, converted him to the first base coach – a job that is pretty much a glorified valet and motivator.
Am I surprised that Shines is gone? No we knew that his demise was inevitable but let’s remember that he is all but human , and we are all prone to making mistakes. But there is no mistaking that fifteen or even twenty years from now when anyone utters the name Razor Shines all you will see are grimaces and all we will here are collective groans.
And with that said…. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Utility-man and original Met, Rick Herrscher is 74 today (1936) .
One of the most detested players in Mets history -Armando Benitez is 38 today (1972) . Benitez was an enigma. It seemed like he would cruise through thfirst five months of the season, shutting the door on almost every game that he closed. But when it game to the final month and a half of the season or they were in the playoffs he always seemed to give up the lead in spectacular fashion.
Florida Marlins signed back up outfielder, Ryan McGuire of the New York Mets as a free agent on November 3, 2000.
Utility infielder, Abraham Nuñez was granted free agency on November 3, 2008.
Middle reliever José Santiago granted was free agency on November 3, 2008.He pitched briefly for the Mets in ’05, appearing in only 4 games.
Mo Vaughn has thrown his weight behind Bob Melvin’s candidacy for Mets manager !!
38 comments
metsfan4decades
11/3/2010-8:22am at 8:22 am (UTC -4)
I never understood the very vocal disdain most fans had with Razor.
I’ll agree that he made some very questionable decisions as a third base coach and so many in a row over a period of games he made himself very visible to fans.
It seemed like from what I’ve read over the past year, he was synonymous with Jerry. If he was going, Razor had to be going also. Is it possible his attitude was one of disdain at the Mets for firing Jerry that keeping him would be perceived as a negative type influence? I’m thinking it was along those lines, that’s why he was let go. Because really, how bad do you have to be as a 1st base coach to be let go?
Armando Benitez…..I used to hold my breath every time he was brought in. You could almost tell after the 1st couple of pitches where it was headed. I know he wasn’t the worst closer but he’s the one stuck in my mind, that gets the award of ‘Most likely to blow the lead in the 9th’.
rustyjr
11/3/2010-8:29am at 8:29 am (UTC -4)
Yea razor suffers from guilt by association and the amount of games he helped blow wouldn’t have gotten us anywhere close to .500 in ’09 but he had to go
Yeah k-rod is almost the second coming of armondo
TRS86
11/3/2010-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think we can say K-rod is the 2nd coming of Armando until we have significant games with him as the closer. We know he has gotten it done in the past and he was actually having a fine season last year until the beat down. I for one am glad he is the closer. Do I wish the option year did not exist? Sure but that’s hindsight considering at the time the overall contract was considered a bargain.
rustyjr
11/3/2010-8:55am at 8:55 am (UTC -4)
I was trying to be humorous with my assessment of Rodriguez but he has had the tendency to blow saves after he was trying to by cutesy with the opposing batters
kistics
11/3/2010-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
I think that’s just KRod’s game. I think he’d rather walk a batter than giving up a hit. I think he loves to strike out batters. And I think that makes him a good closer. Probably not the most efficient pitcher, but I’m fine with him closing games.
Ceetar
11/3/2010-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
I agree, but in this day and age of sabermetrics, the “never walk anybody ever” camp is very vocal.
I think a proper manager/pitching coach can help in this regard. There are obvious times (2 run leads, sluggers coming up) that the walk is more dangerous. Readjust the focus of your closer by emphasizing that in certain situations.
kistics
11/3/2010-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
That’s a very good point in adjusting to situations and changing your approach. I think that’s probably one of the reasons why MO was/if so successful.
Having said that, to me KRod seems like a stubborn guy that doesn’t want to listen to anyone but himself.
Ceetar
11/3/2010-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
I don’t know how much was KRod being stubborn, and how much was Jerry/Dan being incapable of standing up to players that aren’t already hated/backups.
kistics
11/3/2010-9:33am at 9:33 am (UTC -4)
Probably some combination of both…
I remember a game this season when KRod was about to face a slugger (either ARod or Pujols). After putting a man on base, Warthen came out to ask him if he wants to pitch to him. And I can clearly see KRod’s mouth saying ‘F*&% Yeah’. Warthen just turned around and went back.
metsfan4decades
11/3/2010-9:10am at 9:10 am (UTC -4)
I’d have to look up his numbers but my perception is that it’s not necessarily a tendancy to blow leads all the time, it’s that he can never come in and just get the 3 outs. He’s not efficient and puts a lot of guys on base. Sometimes, those base runners come into score before he gets that 3rd out. And if the lead was slim, well…blown save.
He’s been doing that since his days with the Angels – putting base runners on, so that’s nothing new.
Ceetar
11/3/2010-9:13am at 9:13 am (UTC -4)
I actually don’t think those numbers will end up being worse than anyone elses actually.
kistics
11/3/2010-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
Last time I looked (during the season), KRod’s WHIP was better than average amongst closers.
TRS86
11/3/2010-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
To put a little perspective on it. While Krod is not near the top his WHIP is better than Brian Wilson, Heath Bell, Carlos Marmol, Brad Lidge, Matt Caps, Brandon Lyon, and Paps.
TRS86
11/3/2010-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
My point is however, that Krod was having his best season in years.
Lowest ERA since 06.
Lowest WHIP since 06.
Lowest BB/9 since… ever
Highest K/9 in since 2007.
Best SO/BB ratio since 2006.
Ceetar
11/3/2010-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
He’ll get booed heaviliy I imagine, at least to start, but I’m glad he’s here.
njstuckintx
11/3/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
He’ll get booed up until he comes in for a 1-2-3 9th inning with 3 K’s. Then all is right with the world.
Ceetar
11/3/2010-9:42am at 9:42 am (UTC -4)
If course if he walks the leadoff guy the next day he’ll get boo’d again.
Mr North Jersey
11/3/2010-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
Ahhh, the life of a closer in NY.
TRS86
11/3/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
NJ brings up a good point that I think gets overlooked. I don’t think just any good closer can come to NY and be successful. Everyone wants to point out how good Heath Bell is but there is still a lot of difference closing in NY while your own fans are booing you and closing in SD.
njstuckintx
11/3/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
Or Greinke for that matter. Granted, his NTC I thought included NY teams, so my point is likely moot.
rustyjr
11/3/2010-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
Or gives up a grand slam
Ceetar
11/3/2010-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
Who knows. I doubt he added much value. He seemed like a good bench coach, from the stuff I saw in Spring and what not. But I don’t think he added anything worth even considering keeping him around. Pretty much the same for Hale
kistics
11/3/2010-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
I think HoJo needed to go before anyone. But I understand his ties with the Mets so maybe he’ll be ‘reassigned’.
njstuckintx
11/3/2010-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
I can’t see him not being reassigned. But, I’m sure that won’t officially happen until a manager is signed. Having a manager that you don’t trust enough to have them choose their own staff doesn’t make for a good environment.
stickguy
11/3/2010-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
just reassign him to a non-uniformed role. SOmething like community outreach laison. Let him make all the public charity appearances, stuff like that.
Basically, just hang out and be Hojo. And stay the hell away from David Wright.
rustyjr
11/3/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Btw Metstradamus gave us a shoutout on his site yesterday
http://metstradamusblog.com/
Prismo
11/3/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Yep, that was nice of him.
Ceetar
11/3/2010-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
I don’t rearemember to read Metsradamus enough.
btw, which WP->Twitter wordpress plugin are we using here? I’ve tried two and since the oAuth stuff can’t get them to wo rk right.
TRS86
11/3/2010-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
Email Mrose. He knows. I am not even sure. We have had to change it a few times.
Ceetar
11/3/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
Not sure i have his email. I really need to spend a couple hours doing some programming/admin stuff on my site. soon.
TRS86
11/3/2010-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Twitter Tools
I think is the name of it.
Ceetar
11/3/2010-10:49am at 10:49 am (UTC -4)
Taht’s actually the one I’ve been trying, but I didn’t set it up properly or something. get twitter errors when I try to connect it.
when I’m not at work I’ll have to poke at it again tonight. for now, manually tweeting my posts. oh joy.
stickguy
11/3/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Davey Lopes is available as a base coach. He is a good one. And could be fantastic working with Reyes.
He just parted ways with the Phils (partly money, but mostly respect. as reflected in money). ANd he gets a ton of credit for how well they did the last few years baserunning.
the interesting piece in the article about him was that he had full autonomy over the running game. Supposedly he is the only 1B coach that decides who runs when, instead of having it come from the dugout. So, he wanted to get paid to reflect that, as opposed to the usual 1B coach glove holder and ass slapper.
could be a great base coach and infield instructor.
Prismo
11/3/2010-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Hey, if the hitting coach can make a lineup card and in-game substitutions, and the pitching coach and manage a bullpen, we don’t even need a manager!
stickguy
11/3/2010-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
a lot of pitching coaches do pretty much make the BP decisions I think.
So the 1B coach runs the play on the field, and the PC handles all pitching issues.
Let the fans vote before the game on that day’s lineup, and the manager will have nothing to do but sit on the bench, sleeping and picking their nose. Hey, got 4 rings for Torre.
TRS86
11/3/2010-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
I like the idea but I heard that he was likely headed to the Dodgers.
GravediggerHebner
11/3/2010-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
Wow, epic day in Mets transaction history, not.
rustyjr
11/3/2010-2:20pm at 2:20 pm (UTC -4)
Where were you sunday when I reported the 30th anniversary of the richie hebner to the tigers trade ?