Nov 05
Hoyer says Sandy Alderson has asked permission to interview Paul DePodesta. Says he hopes DePo decides to stay with the Padres.
Marty Caswell
Marty1090
Hat tip to MLBTR for link.
The question is will Anderson interview DePodesta when he goes to San Diego this weekend or not?
MLBTradeRumors
How Much Longer Should The Mets Go... { Question: I'm occasionally getting an... } – May 20, 9:33 AM
How Much Longer Should The Mets Go... { So far this season Ike... } – May 20, 8:45 AMHow Much Longer Should The Mets Go... { Thank 'Yankee mentality' is only... } – May 20, 7:59 AMHow Much Longer Should The Mets Go... { LOL } – May 20, 7:53 AMHow Much Longer Should The Mets Go... { If he is the first... } – May 20, 7:52 AM
330 comments
rustyjr
11/5/2010-4:42am at 4:42 am (UTC -4)
We’re getting the band back together !!!
CaseStreet
11/5/2010-8:09am at 8:09 am (UTC -4)
Does this mean art Howe is getting a call?
BTW, anyone else hear Francesca day the mets will never be a joke again because of their all-star front office? High praise from the king.
rustyjr
11/5/2010-8:17am at 8:17 am (UTC -4)
You know he’s praying for epic fail
CaseStreet
11/5/2010-8:48am at 8:48 am (UTC -4)
I’m sure he’s got plenty of material for the players.
Ceetar
11/5/2010-8:39am at 8:39 am (UTC -4)
Was this before or after he spent hours making fun ofteh amazin’ mets perks?
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
He’s brown-nosing alderson big time.
kistics
11/5/2010-8:50am at 8:50 am (UTC -4)
What will his role be? Special Asst GM II?
Where’s Ricco in all of this?
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-9:00am at 9:00 am (UTC -4)
I’m curious on both your questions.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-9:12am at 9:12 am (UTC -4)
on a side note, how much do you think Jose Lopez would cost? 1 or 2 years?
Prismo
11/5/2010-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
The one with a .609 OPS last season? I don’t know…a 1-year utility or minor league contract?
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-9:25am at 9:25 am (UTC -4)
2008 & 2009 he averaged .285-21-93-.765 OPS. It’s a buy low scenario, in my mind that wouldn’t break the bank and would solidify the 2B position, which most want to see some sort of upgrade at. I think I would be content to try out Murphy, Tejada, Castillo & Havens, but wouldn’t be upset if Lopez came in on a short term deal.
TRS86
11/5/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
Guys a negative fielder at best. Not sure how much of an improvement a declining Lopez is over our internal candidates.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-9:43am at 9:43 am (UTC -4)
Is it declining or is it a bad year? I think he’s about 27/28 years old, no?
kistics
11/5/2010-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
His career OPS is below .700 with OBP under .300. Not sure how much he’s looking for since he was paid $3M last season.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
I was just throwing it out there. I prefer the Murphy (or tejada/castillo) route and spend all $$$ on pitching.
kistics
11/5/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
Same here.
TRS86
11/5/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
Yeah he’s listed as only 27.
TRS86
11/5/2010-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
But his OPS has been UNDER .700 more times than it’s been over.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
Again, just throwing it out there.
GravediggerHebner
11/5/2010-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
To use a fishing analogy, we’re throwing it back.
kistics
11/5/2010-9:18am at 9:18 am (UTC -4)
Not sure if this was discussed here. It’s been couple days, but I just saw one of MC’s links about a Tampa Ray’s blog on Duda and Garza. The blogger basically said that Duda is a very interesting candidate to get in return for Garza.
It sounds like the Rays need OF and 1B. I wonder if they’ll do Duda, FMart & Gee for Garza.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-9:21am at 9:21 am (UTC -4)
Probably would have to be something more, in my mind, than that. I get the feeling that Fmart doesn’t have the value with other clubs that he does with the Mets. That said, I’d ship those 3 plus another to get a hold of Garza. I know he’s no Lee or CC or anything like that, but he would vault right to the top of the Met’s pitching staff and, while not completely cheap, is fairly contract friendly.
TRS86
11/5/2010-9:23am at 9:23 am (UTC -4)
I read the article and it was basically saying that Duda would basically be a nice throw in based on my interpretations. The Mets would have to include one of their top 5 prospects along with Duda.
TRS86
11/5/2010-9:26am at 9:26 am (UTC -4)
Example:
Mejia/Flores, Duda, and one other prospect with potential.
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
Does that read one of Mejia, Flores? Because IMO, both plus Duda is a little high for Garza.
kistics
11/5/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
I think he meant Mejia OR Flores plus Duda and another prospect (perhaps someone like Familia?)
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
And if it is one of both, who would you rather give up?
For me, that’s a tough one. Hard to predict what prospects will work out, especially one as young as Flores but I like just about everything I’m reading about Flores so far.
Then again, Mejia is almost ML ready. With him though, tough to say if he’ll pan out as a starter or wind up in relief. Some have the opinion he won’t pan out as a starter.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-9:41am at 9:41 am (UTC -4)
It is a tough one, as the Mets have no pitching depth, but Flores, like you said, seems to be the real deal. If I had to choose, I’d ship Mejia away, just based on his size (a little small-ish) yet the attractiveness of him being almost ML ready. I’d think he would hold a little more value.
kistics
11/5/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
same here
TRS86
11/5/2010-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
Yeah it’s Mejia OR Flores.
kistics
11/5/2010-9:36am at 9:36 am (UTC -4)
Not sure if I would deal Mejia/Flores. Garza had one good season with the Rays. I’m sure coming from AL, he’ll do relatively well in NL. But I don’t know if I would trade top pitching prospect.
Why would the Rays trade Garza anyways? He’s under team’s control for another 3 years.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-9:39am at 9:39 am (UTC -4)
They have 6 starters on the roster, currently, and they are looking to reduce payroll. Garza makes the most, I believe.
TRS86
11/5/2010-9:50am at 9:50 am (UTC -4)
I think it’s more of a sell high and not low. I think if they had a choice it would be Shields they moved but know they would not get back enough in return as he had a terrible year. Garza had a very solid year and would return much more in a trade.
kistics
11/5/2010-9:29am at 9:29 am (UTC -4)
I read it as Duda is one of couple key pieces, because it sounds like they are looking for a major league ready 1B or OF. I know Duda is probably not ready to be the full time starter, but if he can continue what he did in the minors 2010, he could be serviceable.
TRS86
11/5/2010-9:45am at 9:45 am (UTC -4)
I would still consider Pagan, Davis for Garza. I love Davis but 1B is just easier to get than front line under control pitching.
If we go prospects it will most definitely take one of our top 3 prospects.
kistics
11/5/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
I’m not sure if I would value Garza that highly. He had one good season with the Rays. His stats are impressive, but they are not an Ace-like stats. If you give up Pagan and Ike, I would want an ace back.
TRS86
11/5/2010-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
Where is this “one” good season stuff?
He has had under a 4.00 ERA in the AL East every year he has been a starter.
kistics
11/5/2010-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
Past 3 seasons, he’s ERA is barely under 4.00. So was Burnett during ’07-’09 season.
I agree with you that he is better than any of SPs that the Mets currently have (excluding Johan). But I just don’t think he’s worth giving up an arm and a leg.
If it came down to it, maybe Pagan OR Ike. But not both.
CaseStreet
11/5/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
That’s very interesting considering Davis is very cheap and Pagan is our best all-around OFer. Not saying you are wrong.
TRS86
11/5/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
Not sure I would do it either. It would depend on a few things. Could we sign a 1B like LaRoche for cheap. What does Flores project to play. Can Duda play 1B….
kingman 26
11/5/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
Take a look at Pagan’s offensive numbers for Aug and Sept—might be surprising–horrifying production—Mr North was right—Pagan should have been traded after playing WAY over his head for two months last year. He’s a 4th outfielder or a VERY average starter.
If he’s our best outfielder, we are in very serious trouble.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
i wish that was enough for Garza unfortunately Gee is not a good enough pitching prospect.
Familia, Duda and F-Mart would probably not be enough either…
Prismo
11/5/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
You guys know that Garza isn’t that good…right?
In his only 3 full seasons (08-10) he had ERA of 3.70, 3.95, and 3.91.
Also, he’s about to get some significant salary raises in arbitration – $3.35 in ’10 with 3 arbitration raises to go.
This, in addition to Sandy’s very clear notion of keeping the popular homegrown players (Ike), I would not trade any of our starting players for Garza. He’s just not that great.
TRS86
11/5/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
Isn’t that good? Those ERA’s in the AL East? A place where CC has just a shade lower ERA? Same with Lester. An under 4.00 ERA in the AL East is nothing to laugh at all. He’s a mid to upper rotation guy IMO, especially in the NL.
Prismo
11/5/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
Mid-rotation, not upper rotation.
So you think Sandy would go against what he *just* said and trade a homegrown favorite in Ike Davis for a mid-rotation starter who will likely be paid $7+MM in 2012?
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
What do you think a guy who has averaged a 3.80 ERA in the AL East would translate to in the NL? A guy who pitches 200 innings with something around a 3.00 ERA would be my guess.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
So every guy with a 3.8 AL East ERA is an NL Cy-Young candidate?
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Not sure about that. I would not say he is Halladay, Lincecum level but I think he could be Hamels, Carpenter level.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
The AL East had 8 starters with sub-4.0 ERAs last season. All those guys are 200 inning, 3.0ERA pitchers in the NL East? The leagues aren’t *that* different!
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-10:12am at 10:12 am (UTC -4)
well he is certainly on the same level or better than Pelfrey. I wouldnt give up Ike Davis but i would certainly give up F-mart…
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Much better than Pelfrey and much more proven.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
It’s not just the leagues it’s the division. Out of those 8 (9 counting Pettite) only Price, Garza, CC, Lester, Romero and Guthrie pitched 200 innings. To me the move to the NL would put all of those guys in that low 3.00 ERA category if not below.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
And CC’s ERA was 3.18 last season. A far cry from 3.91. Come on…
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
We could a mid-rotation guy.
Ceetar
11/5/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
those are decent ERAs, and doesn’t he have a high K rate?
TRS86
11/5/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
Not high but decent. Has averaged about 7.1 K/9 over his career.
Ceetar
11/5/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
Not overly. He doesn’t seem to have shown significant improvement. K/9, and BB/9 and WHIP all fairly stagnant. HR/9 was around 1, which I don’t think is good. (means a home run a game at least, and his walk rate isn’t that low so they’re more likely to be multi-shots.)
I wonder if a new pitching coach though, could get a good year or two out of him. He’s Mexican-American..maybe it makes Ollie better? I wouldn’t overpay for him for sure, and certainly not TWO major league pieces (pagan and Ike)
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Ike Davis, who is already known for his gold glove quality defense after his *rookie* season. (and his offense wasn’t too shabby either)
Angel Pagan, who is also known for excellent defense, and on top of that was a fairly high ranked offensive player as well last season.
For a mid-rotation starter? Huh?
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Again to me in the NL he is an upper rotation guy. If you want to put numbers to it 1 or 2 in the rotation.
kistics
11/5/2010-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
I think he’s a solid #2. But Ike and Pagan are still alot to give up. Perhaps Ike, FMart and Familia?
kingman 26
11/5/2010-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
Prismo, Pagan is mediocre at best.
Please check out his Aug/Sept offense—non-existent.
He’s not fairly highly ranked—he’s VERY average.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
Stop hatin’ on my team, Philly fan!
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
Oooohhhh… This is edging towards AA vs. MMO and name calling. Beware the moderation!!!!!
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
It was a low-blow.
kistics
11/5/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
I think you also have to consider Pagan’s speed and defense when looking at his value. Sure he may not be Crawford offensively, but defensively he’s much better than Crawford. Plus Pagan can play all 3 OF positions with no problems at all.
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
I wouldn’t trade any of our starting players (i.e. Ike) for Garza either. Prospects though is another story. We need pitching and we’re going to have to give up something this off season to get that.
There isn’t anyway we have enough internal options for a starting rotation and depth for next year, especially with Johan out for at least a half a year, if not longer.
Prismo
11/5/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
Totally agree 4D. I would definitely hear the Rays out on prospects, including high level prospects.
kistics
11/5/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
IMO he might be little better than Pelfrey and will automatically be team’s opening day starter (assuming that Johan is not available) in 2011. But having said that, I agree that he’s couple levels below Johnson/Halladay/Lincecum. Heck Oswalt has better stats past 3 years than Garza (granted Garza played in a much tougher division).
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
To me you put Oswalt in the AL East and his ERA is over 4.00. Obviously to be considered as well is that Garza is still arbitration elligible for the next 3 years.
Ceetar
11/5/2010-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
I’d bet on Oswalt over 4 in 2011 anyway.
kistics
11/5/2010-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
I think you also have to consider playing in NY factor. I know there are lots of people that disagrees with me here. But Oswalt is an established veteran SP that has had success. He has no doubt in his ability. I think the case might be different with Garza. Sure he played in ALCS and WS. But playing in NY day in and day out, dealing with the pressures of media and fans are a lot different than playing in Tampa.
But I’m not saying that he’s a bad player. I’m willing to give up Ike OR Pagan for him. But not both.
kingman 26
11/5/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Garza is very young and pretty good and very proven.
If we could get him for Ike and a lesser prospect? Do that in a second.
Good ERAs–pitching all those games against the Yanks, Sox, and Jays offenses in the AL?
Pagan they could have on a silver platter with a couple prospects.
Johan/Garza/Pelf/Dickey/Niese?
That’s very good.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Johan’s in long-term recovery mode last time I checked. Probably don’t want to brag about him in a rotation until he’s healed and shows he can pitch at a high caliber.
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-10:21am at 10:21 am (UTC -4)
I’ll be surprised if Johan makes it back much before mid August and even then, he won’t be in top ‘Johan’ form. I’m not expecting much from him next season.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
So the question though Kingman is would you trade Ike for him to lessen the prospect damage?
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
You could always put Murphy back at 1B!
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
I hear Mike Jacobs is looking to be signed!
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-10:10am at 10:10 am (UTC -4)
And Cat’s still an FA!
kingman 26
11/5/2010-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
Great question. I think if we could get him even up for Ike or with a Duda, yes.
I think Ike is what he is–a better version of Mike Jacobs. Seems like he will always K a lot, he’s not all that patient, and his fielding is good, but very overrated. A nice player, but no cornerstone.
Mejia should be kept unless we can get a better pitcher than Garza and we still don’t know how good FMart can be.
Personally I think Garza is pretty darn good, and in the NL, in a much easier division, in Citi, etc, I think he’d be a real good number 3 or even a number 2.
Those ERAs, considering his situation, and pretty good.
Hey, I love the homegrown idea, but Garza is healthy and young and good and we still have a lot more homegrown guys.
Ike and Pagan? I might even do that if they threw in a prospect.
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
I don’t agree with Ike’s defense being very overrated. He was one of the top in defense last year for a first baseman. I don’t see any reason to think he’ll be less going forward.
His bat is a question mark yet, I’ll agree there.
I’d trade Mejia at this point before I’d trade Ike. I might wind up wrong on this but I just don’t see Mejia’s long term projection as a starter. I’m betting he winds up in relief.
kistics
11/5/2010-10:24am at 10:24 am (UTC -4)
I would too.
Something like Ike, FMart and Familia.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
Once again, I would be ***shocked*** if Sandy trade Ike for just about anyone. Shocked.
Pagan wouldn’t surprise me too much though.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-10:09am at 10:09 am (UTC -4)
I would too.
kingman 26
11/5/2010-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
We all overrate our own players.
Ike’s not that great. He’s good, but not THAT good. Enough with the strikeouts, poor OBPs, and lack of plate discipline.
That’s not winning baseball and not what Alderson is all about.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:14am at 10:14 am (UTC -4)
I’m not basing that at all on Ike’s stats. Although, you seem to forget that Ike is only 23 years old with 1 season in the majors and a terrible hitting coach. Sounds like you’ve completely given up on him.
Anyway, what I’m basing it on is how extremely important Alderson said homegrown stars are for a team and for a fanbase. On the Mets, I think that’s players like Reyes/Wright/Ike/Pelfrey, probably no one else at this point. Alderson really really really emphasized this point. And even if it’s just for that alone, I don’t see Ike getting traded unless it’s for a true star.
fongy2
11/5/2010-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
All teams overrate their prospects!
I wouldn’t want to move move Ike BUT as I’ve said many
times, the guy is the 2nd coming of Adam LaRoche.
He’s already a solid player, likely gets better and becomes
a very good all around 1Bman, his #s vs. Lefties were impressive, so…He might be in a few yrs a better version of
LaRoche. I have to say it amazes me how often I see folks
here post that the likes of Sheilds or Garza are 3,4,5 Pitchers.
In who’s rotation???…The Giants??…And maybe a handful of
other teams??…These are young Pitchers who have been top of the rotation guys on playoff teams who’ve pitched(mostly) well in big games already AND should still have many great yrs left. Whats funny is that many who think Sheilds is only a #4or5
AND Garza is only a #3 are some who argued like crazy to bring guys likeSheets, WolfHarden or Vasquez here the past couple of seasons.
kingman 26
11/5/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
Absolutely correct.
I love homegrown players, but the idea is to win.
Garza is a good-to-very-good pitcher, is only a few years older than Ike, and is a big reason the Rays have been so good the last three years.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
And Ike’s gotten universal praise on both his defense and early offensive abilities. Did you see the recent analyst poll where they ranked his 1B defense 3rd in MLB? Let’s see where he ends up with ROY balloting too, which I believe is not voted on solely by Mets fans!
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-10:17am at 10:17 am (UTC -4)
he was a rookie though, a line of .270+ BA .360+ OBP 25+ HR and top 5-10 defensively at his position is not unrealistic for his 2nd year in the league…
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-10:22am at 10:22 am (UTC -4)
Agree on the over-rating of our own teams players. That said, I have to say, Ike’s D is stellar. He makes the 2B players better. He cover’s a ton of ground, hits for power. Maybe the plate discipline comes along? I dunno. Knowing he can handle 1B and handle it well, and being a minimal payroll guy + being homegrown, I with Prismo, I don’t see him going anywhere.
The need for a Garza Type to compete THIS year is necessary, especially with Johan on the DL. Hopefully he can move prospects for him or someone comparable. Maybe JP and Sandy sit down and say that they don’t see Duda, Mejia or Havens in the long term plans and ship all 3 for Garza. I’d much rather that, than losing Ike.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:25am at 10:25 am (UTC -4)
100% agree on all counts.
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-10:45am at 10:45 am (UTC -4)
Same here.
kistics
11/5/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
If you can pull off Duda and Havens/Mejia for Garza, sign me up.
Though the pitching farm would be pretty much depleted w/o mejia.
But weren’t we all willing to give up Mejia for Lee last season?
fongy2
11/5/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
And THAT would be the reason for the Draft.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
I was saying all 3, duda Mejia and havens for Garza. It may take that much, especially with SP being so thin this year. But my talents are not in trade proposals and my talents are not going to south beach.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
See to me I don’t do that. I would much rather have our best pitching prospect, our best 2B prospect and a potential power hitter still in the system than to keep Ike. It’s not that I don’t like Ike but I am not sure he is worth 3 prospects. Would you trade those 3 guys for Ike if Ike were on a different team?
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
Our best pitching prospect (for which it’s agreed the pitching prospects are not top notch), our best 2B prospect (who’s injury history is extensive) and a potential power hitter (i’m not even sure what that means. Carter is a potential power hitter too) all for Garza? I’d sign that before ink was dry on the offer sheet.
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Wow, I just don’t see it. 3 of our top 10 prospects for Ike?
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
My only counter point to that is where do our top 3 prospects sit on the overall top 100 list? It’s not like it’s #16, #27 & # 40 on the overall list. Saying top 3 of our prospects is leaning towards over valuing, in my mind.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
I would rather keep Ike as well but I am not sure Duda gets it done. To me I would rather keep Duda and Mejia than Ike by himself.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
Here is what my question is
Are we better the next 4 years (my window for some reason) with
Garza, Duda/1B option
or
Ike and ? at SP?
I can’t help but think about a 2012 rotation of
Johan, Garza, Pelfrey, Niese, Mejia.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
That’s optimistic.
You can’t count on Johan coming off surgery and missing most of a season.
Pelfrey should be a lock to be decent, but you never know.
Niese is still a question mark, though projects to be decent.
Mejia is a huge question mark. Who knows.
I mean they could all be great, sure…but how can you predict a rotation 1.5 years in advance?
kistics
11/5/2010-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
I think he meant 2012.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
I do.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Right so if all of those guys have question marks shouldn’t getting a solid guy like Garza be a priority?
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:38am at 10:38 am (UTC -4)
Sure, but trade prospects, not major leaguers. I’m fine with trading Mejia, Gee, Fmart, whomever…but not starters. Just seems too lateral at this point.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
I’m with Pris.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
It depends on how many of those guys you have to trade in my mind. Again if it was Gee, Fmart and Tejada? Sure what the hell.
If it’s Mejia, Flores, etc? Not so sure.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
Not Mejia, Flores, and another? I would.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:58am at 10:58 am (UTC -4)
So you would trade Mejia, Flores and say Duda for Garza but would not trade Ike alone for Garza? Wow.
Prismo
11/5/2010-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Ike alone? Oh, sure! Rays would laugh at that.
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
I think Ike and Pagan could get it done IMO.
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
But if you want to put prospects on it.
To me it becomes more of Ike, Tejada, LOW level guy instead of
2-3 of our top 10 guys.
Prismo
11/5/2010-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
I would not do Ike and Pagan.
However, I might do Pagan and a couple prospects.
kistics
11/5/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
I would go with option #1. Garza & Duda/Murphy
fongy2
11/5/2010-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
Can we calm down about Lucas Duda please.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
I don’t see anyone that high on him besides maybe stick.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, talk about overrating our own players. The guy’s done just about nothing so far at the ML level, and people are already replacing Ike with him at 1B.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Who?
I said he would be an option at 1B.
kingman 26
11/5/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
LOL!
Duda is probably a non-prospect.
fongy2
11/5/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
24 going on 25 hits .202 in a small sample BUT K’d every 4ABs
and cant hit Lefties. Is a plodder in LF(the only position he can
play) …. AND The Rays would want him for what reason exactly?
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
How do you know that Duda can’t play 1B. Have you seen him play it enough to make a judgment?
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
C’mon man…..Duda, who we don’t even know can hit MLB pitching is at the same time gonna learn on the job at the
MLB level how to play 1B….If he even can??
If this is your theory, why trade ANY of these kids for
anything? Why not leave them be, figure out positions for
them, bite the bullet for a couple yrs and totally rebuild??
kistics
11/5/2010-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Well he’s viewed pretty well by the Ray’s blogger. Which got this whole thing started. LOL
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
I love Ike but do we realize how close his stats were to Daniel Murphy?
.275 .331 .437 .768
.264 .351 .440 .791
fongy2
11/5/2010-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
I’m a fan of both BUT Murphy isn’t Davis. Not as good a hitter
and not even close with the glove.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:36am at 10:36 am (UTC -4)
Murphy was going to be the starting 1B, don’t forget.
Ike is better defensively, and slightly better offensively in his rookie season.
How can people give up on him after 1 season? I’m not saying he’s going to be Pujols, but he might be a very good 1B.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Who is giving up on him? I am saying that his numbers were not far from Murphy (who was also a rookie) and while his defense was better most rated Murphy’s defense good as well.
Ike is a very talented player and I would hate to lose him but to me we need Garza more.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Go Big Murph!
kingman 26
11/5/2010-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
Great point.
Again, we all dramatically overrate players like Ike and Pagan.
A guy like Garza is much more valuable to a winning team than a 1B with fair power who Ks like Ike.
He hit 19 HR in 600 PA. Big deal.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
Heyward hit 18. Is he a bust too?
ROOKIE SEASON
Ceetar
11/5/2010-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
And he was rushed, as you pointed out. I doubt he would’ve been on the team at all except for the random (gritty!) injury to Murphy.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Who was also rushed and forced to change positions multiple times.
fongy2
11/5/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Because he’s a butcher with the glove.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
So we should not believe the stats or scouts who said he was above average at 1B? Or even Keith himself? Not as good as Ike but average at least.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
TRS, I think he was talking about Murphy being moved to multiple positions due to his glove.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
Right, but he did very well at 1B. He was also given very little time to learn LF or 1B before being thrown there in the MLB>
Ceetar
11/5/2010-10:55am at 10:55 am (UTC -4)
he was moved to the OF because he played David Wright’s position, and he did so in the major leagues, and if you really look at it, he wasn’t that bad. He had a couple of showy errors (just like Jeter makes a couple of showy plays and won gold gloves for it) but he was basically learning on the fly.
At least part of the reason he was moved to first was the Delgado injury and Manuel’s believe that Sheffield and Tatis could play the outfield better. (In my opinion, they didn’t)
Ceetar
11/5/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
It’s decisions like those that I’m most looking forward to not seeing next year.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:00am at 11:00 am (UTC -4)
Ceeter, with all due respect, do you have any idea it is
to in any way mention Murph and Jeter in the same conversation?….Murphy was moved off 3B NOT b/c Wright was blocking his path BUT b/c he was terrible at 3B. He was worse in the OF and at 2B.
You can always try and hide a guy at 1B BUT with your
own eyes, you really mean to tell me Ike wasn’t a significantly better 1Bman than Murphy?…C’mon man!
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Ike is a better 1B than Murphy. No one is questioning that. However, based on scouts, stats and Keith’s own opinion Murphy was above average there as well. Also, how many games have you seen Murphy play at 2B?
Ceetar
11/5/2010-11:06am at 11:06 am (UTC -4)
Did I say that? no. I wasn’t comparing Jeter and Murphy in any way, merely commenting on the way the flashy play tends to be the deciding factor in “what your eyes see” evaluation.
Murphy was part of a ‘fast track’ program put in place in part by Bernazard. There have been hints that the Mets have undervalued defense, and it’s evident by the constant moving of guys around. Murphy was fast-tracked to the majors and put in a position he didn’t play, because they decided they wanted him up there but he coudlnt’ play his natural position.
He was not worse in the OF, he was handicapped (the ridiculous “throw to Reyes instead of Wright” crap with cut-off throws) and not really given much of a chance to learn a position.
he was pretty good at first. not as natural as Ike, and didn’dt have as good glove work, but had very good range, and was aggressive.
Ike was better, but it wasn’t lightyears better, and had Murphy not gotten injured I do not believe Ike would’ve won the job from Buffalo.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
Alright you guys keep hope alive that Murph will
ever be anything other than a below average fielder.
See where that gets us going foward.
For me, I think I know better having seen this too many times since I’ve been a Met fan.
Trying to hide Kingman all over, messing with HoJo as
a SS&CF, moving Keith Miller to CF, Getting Juan Samuel to play CF, Hundley in LF, Reyes as a 2Bman
and on and on. If your gonna play in a play like Citifield, you need to be able to play well above average Defense….Unless of course you can somehow flip our SPing for The Giants SPing.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:40am at 10:40 am (UTC -4)
Nobody is saying he is a bust. We are saying he is easier to replace than a guy like Garza. We have guys close to Ike in the system, we have no one even close to Garza in the system.
fongy2
11/5/2010-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
“We have guys close to Ike in our system”…….Really???
kistics
11/5/2010-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
I think what he meant is that the production difference between Ike and Murphy/Duda is much less than Garza and Mejia/Gee.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:56am at 10:56 am (UTC -4)
Bingo. To me having Mejia, Havens and Duda is better than having one Ike.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:01am at 11:01 am (UTC -4)
Havens???…Duda???…They are what??..Exactly??
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
Who knows? What is Ike? Adam Laroche based on your opinion.
Thus would you trade Mejia, Havens and Duda for Adam Laroche?
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
Left handed first baseman, very good defense…
I don’t know anyone we’ve got that could fill that slot.
As far as his bat, I’m in the camp of it was pretty good considering he was rushed and it was his rookie season. I was especially impressed to see after the slump coming out of the ASB, he made some adjustments and did pick it up in Sept.
IMO, since I don’t think Mejia will pan out as a starter, I’d rather give up him, if necessary.
TRS86
11/5/2010-10:57am at 10:57 am (UTC -4)
I think it’s too early to say on Mejia and if he does pan out is worth so much more than Ike. The problem is that Mejia alone most likely does not get Garza where as Ike and filler might.
Prismo
11/5/2010-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
Ike…as filler…!?
That’s it sir. You’ve taken it one step too far! I challenge you to a duel!
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:03am at 11:03 am (UTC -4)
Meijia is still a baby…But with a golden arm.
One has got to be sure b/f giving up on that.
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
Ike and filler might.
Prismo
11/5/2010-11:07am at 11:07 am (UTC -4)
Phew, you scared me for a moment. I retract my challenge.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
What I do know is that Ike as a 23y/o rookie came
in played a very, very good 1B, had a .350obp,
K’d less than Dave Wright, hit well again Lefties,
had some huge hits while we were still contending
and did all this having been thrown into the middle of the line-up while not exactly getting the kind of
help someone in his position might if he’d have come
up with say the yanks,phils or rangers.
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
You guys keep acting like I don’t like Ike. I love Ike. I just think we need Garza more.
Ceetar
11/5/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
I’m not sure on the whole field right now, but I’m not sure we can’t get something approximating Garza on the open market/for less prospects.
fongy2
11/5/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
Thank you Prismo!… In our Park Davis likely becomes a 25HR
guy b/c he has already shown the ability to hit Lefties.
Prismo
11/5/2010-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
So okay TRS/Kingman. Let’s clear the air.
If you wanted to trade for Garza, who would you be willing to realistically offer, not including Ike?
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
I know I’m not TRS nor the Ka-nog, but here’s my 2 cents.
I’d do what I mentioned above. Mejia, Havens and Duda. Would I want to do it for less? Yes. Would TB trade Garza for less? Prob Not.
I think with TB, they have a stud prospect that is an OF and the Mets really do not have a backup CF/OF guy that can play more than just from time to time other than Pagan. If they had more OF depth, it wouldn’t hurt as much to trade Pagan, whom I feel is in limbo between an everyday player vs. 4th OF type. Flashes of Brilliance, Flashes of Mediocrity.
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
Hmm. Not sure. I am getting tied up with the amount of upper prospects it takes to get Garza if you do not include Ike. To me we are not in the position to trade 3 of our top 10 prospects and IF you could get him for Ike and 2 filler guys I would rather do that.
So not including Ike what would I part with?
One top 5 guy not named Mejia/Flores, and a of the Duda, Tejada type and one lower level pitcher. Not sure that gets it done though.
Again how many does it take?
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:23am at 11:23 am (UTC -4)
Unless Tampa suddenly hires Omar to run things there,
It would take Meijia&Ike to even begin a conversation about
getting Garza. So……????
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
See I disagree. No way does it take both. Not even their fans expect that much.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
Really??…What exactly do you think Garza is “A Solid #3 or
#4 SPer”???
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
mid to upper rotation pitcher.
GravediggerHebner
11/5/2010-11:15am at 11:15 am (UTC -4)
In the context of having people close to Ike in the system perhaps we do, but none of them play the position Ike plays at all let alone as well defensively.
According to Sickels recent system prospect rankings the only person who plays 1B that even made his list at all was Duda who he ranked as the Mets 9th best prospect and gave him a C+ grade. Here’s how he defines a C grade:
“Grade C prospects are the most common type. These are guys who have something positive going for them, but who may have a question mark or three, or who are just too far away from the majors to get an accurate feel for. A few Grade C guys, especially at the lower levels, do develop into stars. Many end up as role players or bench guys. Some don’t make it at all.”
So in summary it’s my opinion the Mets have no viable in house replacement at 1B for Ike Davis and therefore the concept of replacing Davis from outside the organization should be factored into any discussion about trading him away.
kistics
11/5/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
Murphy?
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:20am at 11:20 am (UTC -4)
How ’bout we just keep Ike.
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Gets my vote.
Prismo
11/5/2010-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
So a team not looking to significantly increase payroll would get Garza, who will cost about $5MM this season and have to pay for a replacement 1B, which would probably cost at least a few MM.
Hmm…
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
A team that will most likely HAVE to bring in a starter that will cost more than 5M.
Again, to me we are better off with Garza, Murphy/other internal guy/FA than we are with Ike and ???SP/FA scrub pitcher.
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Here is the issue I have. If I am not misunderstanding you. Your saying that when you say,
“we are better off with Garza, Murphy/other internal guy/FA than we are with Ike and ???SP/FA scrub pitcher.”
That should be interpreted as
(Murphy/other internal guy/FA) is equal to (Ike)
but
(Garza) is greater than (???SP/FA scrub pitcher)
So the thing is how can you project what (Murphy/other internal guy/FA) will be when it is an unknown?
For that matter how do you know that Garza will be much better than (???SP/FA scrub pitcher) when you don’t know if indeed the question marks will be a scrub pitcher?
Are the Mets better with Gaarza/Murphy as opposed to say Ike/Garland?
And how does one know that when no one has a clue of what Murphy is yet?
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:00pm at 12:00 pm (UTC -4)
Well if we got Garland, and I’m not against it, ya better have
Ike @1B and keep Murph away from 2B because Garland
gets ALOT of groundball outs!
GravediggerHebner
11/5/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Well said. The financial issues you note, plus Alderson’s quotes on home grown players you noted above, plus not having a cost effective on par Ike replacement in house, all combine to make me believe Ike as a piece in a Garza trade is not a realistic option from the Mets perspective.
If Alderson/Ricciardi/DePodesta? can come up with some package that entices the Rays while not including Ike I could see them going for it, if they can’t I see them passing.
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:42am at 11:42 am (UTC -4)
I can see the point of why they would not, but again considering they are going to have to pay for a SP anyway I don’t see a difference in price.
kistics
11/5/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
I don’t think it’s so much the money that will be in conflict, but the “home grown talent” will be.
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
I agree with this.
kistics
11/5/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
How about a trade including Pagan?
Rays are looking for someone to replace Crawford and 1B (can’t remember his name).
They are assuming that Zobrist can either play 2B/OF or 1B.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I think they already have their OF replacement for
Crawford in super-prospect Des Jennings.
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
I think you have to look at it a few different ways. Again is the production potential of Mejia, Havens and Duda greater than Ike?
Also as far as Grades, if you moved Flores to 1B what would his grade be?
Now factor in what would Ike’s grade be in the minors at 1B and what would Garza’s grade be as a pitcher?
GravediggerHebner
11/5/2010-11:36am at 11:36 am (UTC -4)
Yeah no disrespect but I’m not going to do any of those things, in part because I fail to see the relevance in any of them. I’m just going to stand by my opinion based on all the information available to me at this moment (that doesn’t require me to go hypothetical to the Nth degree) that the Mets will not be packaging Ike Davis to the Rays for Garza.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-11:22am at 11:22 am (UTC -4)
you cannot sacrifice the future just to “compete” this year. mets fans need to be more realistic about 2011.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:24am at 11:24 am (UTC -4)
Thank You!….A true voice of reason.
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:25am at 11:25 am (UTC -4)
Garza is not a short term pickup so why would we be sacrificing the future?
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
+1
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
it was more of general statement but unless the Mets have a future franchise 1B in AAA waiting in the wings, I can’t part with Ike Davis to get Garza.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
ooohhh.. + 1.1
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
Unless the Mets have a future SP like Garza in AAA waiting in the wings….
I just think we have closer to Davis guys in our system than we do guys that are closer to Garza.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
well i could be sold on that if you were to tell me that the Mets will be players for Gonzalez, Pujols or Fielder in 2012
kistics
11/5/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Perhaps it’s easier to acquire/replace Ike talent at 1B. But a 25/26 year old pitcher like Garza is harder to find.
TRS86
11/5/2010-1:26pm at 1:26 pm (UTC -4)
That’s obvious.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
Agreed, he wouldn’t be for the short term however, since contending next year even with Garza but w/o Ike and likely
Meijia and more isn’t very likely, Garza will in a yr or two be looking at a huge contract. Combine that with the fact that to
replace what you’d think we’d get from Ike and the potential
of Meijia…..Again, if thats the cost….Whats the point???
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Wait a minute. The deal goes south if you are throwing in Mejia. No way do I do that deal.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:44am at 11:44 am (UTC -4)
You don’t think Tampa’s FO is aware of the lack of top
pitching and how valuable an asset like Garza is?
You don’t think there would be a major bidding war
of offers for him? It would take alot more than Ike to
get a young, proven, big game winning SPer like Garza.
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:47am at 11:47 am (UTC -4)
Not top prospect wise I do not. I think you could get him for Ike, and 2 lower guys. Again, I am basing this on what MLB network guys have said and what even their own fans are looking for in a trade.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
What the fans and what Tampa’s FO which we know is good and want to con’t to contend want are two different
things.
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:01pm at 12:01 pm (UTC -4)
Obviously. But given the tendency to over rate your own players to me their thoughts are to be considered.
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-11:26am at 11:26 am (UTC -4)
The comparison of Murphy and Davis are good ones because they show that statistics do not tell the entire story.
If you never saw the 2 players play you would think you have 2 promising rookies to build around for the future.
It is only after witnessing how they put those numbers together that you come away with a far different impression of the 2 players.
Murphy is a kid that after his fast start in the latter half of 2008 season their was excitement about how people were projecting those numbers over an entire 2009 season.
In 2009 we all know the disaster of a start he got off to defensively out in LF. So much so that clearly everyone will admit he just could not continue as our future everyday LF (welcome Jason Bay).
Despite his bad D when you look back Murphy actually did get off to a decent start with the bat but once Delgado went down all that changed.
Now I don’t know how much having to learn how to play a new position had to do with it. I will say it had to be difficult to know your failings as a outfielder has forced the team to try you at 1b now with Delgado gone. To his credit he played better than expected at 1st but again he did the same in LF in 2008 so take it with a grain of salt.
In any case his bat just disappeared. I mean Murphy was non existent from the time Delgado went down till some time in August. His final numbers for that season paint a poor picture of how poorly he really was offensively that year.
In hindsight when you look at Davis’s 2010 season you see a kid thrown into a lineup with just no offense whatsoever similar to what Murphy you can say went through once Delgado was hurt and yet in Davis you see what could be with his majestic homers and his glove at 1st base.
Here comes 2011 and the question will be is Davis just another reincarnation of Murphy waiting to happen doomed to have a sub par year in 2011?
Is Murphy going to show that the Murphy we saw in 2008 really exists and that the Murphy of Sept 2009 was a sign of what’s to come?
This is something I just don’t know but I do know that I have more faith that Davis barring injury has more upside than Murphy at this point. That doesn’t make me more righter than someone who feels Murphy has more upside but just wanted to show how I view both of them.
Prismo
11/5/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
Good analysis NJ.
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Thank you Prismo.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:35am at 11:35 am (UTC -4)
Very good!…One other thing though just a bet, but I am a gambling man so I’d put cash money down on a wager putting
Murph up against Davis. I’d think every other team if given the choice would take Ike AND I think Ike will end up with a far
better career than Murphy.
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:31am at 11:31 am (UTC -4)
I think that Ike is more talented and has a higher ceiling than Murphy, no doubt. However, I think that Garza and Murphy are better than Ike and ?.
Ceetar
11/5/2010-11:32am at 11:32 am (UTC -4)
Perez? Misch? John Maine’s dog?
Ceetar
11/5/2010-11:38am at 11:38 am (UTC -4)
They’ve talked about 8 pitchers/depth a bit lately. The Mets do lack in that regard, and I wonder how they’re going to address it, specifically I wonder about John Maine. I wonder how other teams view him, and if someone will take a major league shot with him. I’d certainly be willing to offer him a minor league type deal as that 7th/8th depth guy. I feel like he’s “less” injury prone given that all of the last two years was the same injury that is now fixed. He should be healthy and pitching by Spring Training and if he’s done, he’s done, but there is upside there.
GravediggerHebner
11/5/2010-11:39am at 11:39 am (UTC -4)
I trust Alderson and company to find a pitcher to satisfactorily close that gap without sacrificing Ike to do it.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:41am at 11:41 am (UTC -4)
Agreed…And Thank You Old Sage!
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
OK I trust them to draft a Tim Lincecum. I once trusted Omar too.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
Darvish?
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Possible I guess.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
Again Oleo, Thank You!
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:57am at 11:57 am (UTC -4)
But for how much?
After posting and contract he could cost us as much or more than signing Garza longterm AND picking up a 1B.
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:12pm at 12:12 pm (UTC -4)
I’d gamble with Darvish and the cost to get him
AND IKE over Garza and the cost to get him which
would be Ike and others AND then the cost of the
contract it would cost to keep him.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
You “once trusted Omar”???….
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:56am at 11:56 am (UTC -4)
Yeah, I lost that trust around mid-season of 2009.
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:13pm at 12:13 pm (UTC -4)
A couple years too late my friend!
GravediggerHebner
11/5/2010-11:51am at 11:51 am (UTC -4)
Somewhere Sandy Alderson is feeling a voodoo pain in his side at being compared to Omar Minaya.
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-11:50am at 11:50 am (UTC -4)
Not knowing really what this Alderson will do for us I would have to agree with that scenario also Grave.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
Do we have any idea who might be available this time next season
after our new FO has had time to sort out what exactly he has
to deal with? Do we know who might be available at the allstar break if we’re contending? And what it may or may not cost?
Look I’m not saying I wouldn’t listen BUT I’d take it real-slowly
in moving a young,inexpensive player like whos already proven
he can play solid baseball both ways and should only get better.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
well considering Pujols, Gonzalez and Fielder will be available as FAs in 2012, i could buy into trading Ike for Garza iff the Mets go after Gonzalez or Pujols (Fielder i dont want but can use him as leverage).
with all that money coming off the books and SP locked up (Santana, Garza, Pelfrey, Niese, Dickey, Mejia, Harvey etc.) they can appropriate that money to 1B and still have left over to spend elsewhere such as a closer, OF, 2B etc.
fongy2
11/5/2010-11:54am at 11:54 am (UTC -4)
So then in a couple yrs we’d be on the hook for 30to40million
for Garza and one of the 1Bman you named.
O.K. if you can assure me we get Pujols or AGone….
Because if not, and it’s unlikely, I’d rather keep Ike and see
what else develops later this and into next yr.
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
OK but how much do you think Darvish cost?
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-12:11pm at 12:11 pm (UTC -4)
Only $ and no prospects.
He’ll need a posting cost too, right? Maybe 20 Mill posting with a 12 a year contract for 3 years? Something on par with DiceK without such a large posting?
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:14pm at 12:14 pm (UTC -4)
No idea. How much above Ike would it cost to get Garza?
And then how much would it cost to keep him here long term?
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-12:02pm at 12:02 pm (UTC -4)
well Garza doesnt become a FA until 2014 so he wont be making more than 10-12 mil till then and i will assume Pujols stays in STL. with all the big market teams except the Cubs already having a 1B, the Mets should be in prime position to get Gonzalez.
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-11:55am at 11:55 am (UTC -4)
My thoughts on par with this.
To me, Ike is more of a natural fielding 1st baseman as a lefty. Murph will probably be serviceable as a righty there, but I don’t see his defense being on par with Ike’s.
The bats going forward is the real question mark.
GravediggerHebner
11/5/2010-11:49am at 11:49 am (UTC -4)
I imagine many of you read that very long multi-part Ducksnorts interview with Alderson from a few years ago during his Padres tenure that made the blogosphere rounds when Alderson came aboard.
I don’t have it in front of me right now but one quote that stood out to me I remember going something like this:
“In San Diego obviously we have a ballpark that is conducive to pitchers. Given that as an organization we never felt as if we’d have any problems attracting pitchers to come and play for our club if we could offer them a reasonable salary. We felt that hitters on the other hand would shy away from our team due to perception or reality that our ballpark would depress their stats and therefore they wouldn’t be interested in coming at all or they would demand overpayment to come here. We’ve placed an emphasis on developing hitters confident that we’d be able to easily recruit pitchers.”
Now if you want to you can go the extra step and freak out “OMIGOD Sandy is going to be terrible those Padres never developed any hitters” and I really couldn’t argue with you except to say he was only there about as long as Omar was here and the hitters he may be drafting/signing/developing perhaps haven’t arrived yet.
Or you can say “we need to keep anyone who resembles a good hitter because we’ll be able to just snatch up pitchers at will with our NYC money and our pitchers park to entice them to come.”
TRS86
11/5/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
He’s also said that he does not like 2nd generation long-term contracts. Would be hard to sign a big named FA pitcher on those terms.
GravediggerHebner
11/5/2010-12:04pm at 12:04 pm (UTC -4)
It will be hard to sign any big name FA regardless of position given the public stance on 2nd gen players.
But it will be easier to attract pitchers without having to overpay to get them.
kistics
11/5/2010-12:08pm at 12:08 pm (UTC -4)
What is 2nd generation long-term contract? Is it like what Beltran, Bay and Santana got?
GravediggerHebner
11/5/2010-12:15pm at 12:15 pm (UTC -4)
Basically yes although I think Beltran was young enough when he signed his contract that maybe if we’re really picking this topic apart he didn’t count.
Roughly I took what Sandy said about that to mean was he’d be more inclined to lock up his own young system developed players through arbitration and early free agency than he would be to sign outside free agents in the context of “big” contracts.
More like what the Mets did a few years ago with Wright and Reyes, less like the Mets with Bay or Santana.
kistics
11/5/2010-12:19pm at 12:19 pm (UTC -4)
So if Ike is traded to get Garza, Sandy is unlikely to replace 1B with signing guys like Fielder or AGonz.
GravediggerHebner
11/5/2010-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
That’s basically how I interpreted it but I imagine there would be exceptions and Fielder is young enough to be an exception IMO.
But yeah otherwise spend the big money/long years on your own talented younger players to keep them rather than pay to get someone else’s players especially if they’ve already given their “peak years (roughly 27-30)” to another franchise.
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:28pm at 12:28 pm (UTC -4)
But he’s also less likely to be able to bring in an established FA pitcher.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-12:10pm at 12:10 pm (UTC -4)
i usually value pitchers especially young ones like Garza much greater than position players but if the Mets cant find a replacement and wont spend for Gonzo or Pujols then we cant afford to hinge our hopes for 2012 and beyond on someone like Flores
GravediggerHebner
11/5/2010-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/11/5/1795048/mets-recognize-bloggers-have-a-role-to-play
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
turns out we were invited but someone didnt pass along the invite when they couldnt keep the appt.
I wont say his name but its what happens t metal when exposed to the elements for a long time.
GravediggerHebner
11/5/2010-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
Hello (blank) Jones, goodbye (blank) cars.
Ceetar
11/5/2010-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
Well, it’s not like there was more than 3 hours of notice.
kingman 26
11/5/2010-12:06pm at 12:06 pm (UTC -4)
Back to Prismo’s question, and thanks for asking!
First off, Garza is about to turn 27. Three solid to very good years, 30+ starts, for a very good team in a VERY tough division. Great numbers? No. But good to very good across the board—WHIP, ERA, K, BB, etc.
He’s not back of the rotation material any more than he is a true number 1 ace. A very good number 3 or even a number 2, and it is not unreasonable to think that he could improve somewhat, and have better results in the NL/easier division/Citi.
Trading prospects for him has ZERO to do with mortgaging the future as Garza is only about to turn 27 and could be a mainstay with Pelf as our 2-3 or 3-4 starters for years.
I would gladly trade Pagan (who is a borderline starter, as his entire career clearly shows) and two prospects, but not Mejia.
Pagan/Gee/Duda or Evans?
Pagan/FMart/lesser prospect?
Really, other than obvious stars and if Ike is out of the conversation, I would probably trade anyone other than Mejia and maybe Thole, as without him we truly have a huge black hole at C and I see him as maybe hitting .300 with a lot of 2B.
Pagan is nothing. He’s a spare part for a winning team, or a starter for a team like the Rays looking to drastically cut payroll. His last two months last year were comedy. He’s like Figgy but slightly better—good enough to start for a bad/low-payroll team.
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
Thole is my guy!…I’m pretty much in agreement with you about
this Brock. It’s just too damn bad the great FMART doesn’t have
anywhere near the value he did a couple yrs ago.
And yeah, yeah I know he’s still young….God have we been hearing
that for years BUT judging from what we pretty much already know and have seen, skills wise, hows does he ever add up to more than
Dave DeJesus???…A corner OFer with average speed, not a big
Base-stealer, maybe develops more power but in our Park and
from what he’s already done, what? …A 12-15 HR guy?…..
Is he gonna be a .320/.330 type hitter who maybe one wins a Batting title or two?..Or more likely a solid .280 hitter?
I think your right on about Pagan, he’s already better than I ever thought BUT what is he?..The third best OFer on a good team?
Maybe?..I don’t think either Duda or Evans are big time prospects
BUT I like Evans much more. Think in time he can be a platoon corner OF/1B for someone.
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
Here’s the issue with Pagan. He is a very good CF that was one of the top CF in the NL for 1.5 years. His WAR is very high as was his contract value. Figgy has never been any of those.
kingman 26
11/5/2010-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Pagan is not a top 5 anything. Any stat that ranks him as top 5 over the year is as valuable as a stat which ranks Bay as “defensively challenged.”
Pagan was top five for two months this year.
He’s fine for a 4th place sub-.500 team. He’s a bench player for a good team.
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
So do we also need to go in a take away the good months for the other top CF?
I think your prejudice is getting in the way. Lets throw away ALL of his 1.5 seasons worth of stats and say they are meaningless. Lets throw away his traditional offensive and defensive stats as well as all of the newer stats that point to that and just go based on opinion. Nice.
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Take a look here and sort by almost every category and then come back. Look at all the traditional ones and new stats and then come back and say he is a 4th OF based on anything but opinion.
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=nl&qual=y&type=1&season=2010&month=0
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
And again that factors in only offense. Use ANY defensive stat you would like and add that to his value.
Again, I am not saying I would not trade him for a top SP but he is much better than you are giving him credit for.
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Thank you BUT your getting very close Brock to being lumped into the Anti-Sabermetric Club with me!
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
It’s not just saber stats that rate him that high. It’s traditional offensive and defensive stats combined that do that as well. It’s also not just one Saber stat but multiple stats developed by different groups and they all point to the same thing.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-12:26pm at 12:26 pm (UTC -4)
that is not fair to compare Pagan to Figgy, however i would absolutely trade Pagan in a deal for Garza.
kistics
11/5/2010-12:21pm at 12:21 pm (UTC -4)
Can’t keep up with all these comments!
stickguy
11/5/2010-12:25pm at 12:25 pm (UTC -4)
Jeez, you people argue a lot. I love the off season!
I would love to have Garza. But given the various scenerios, would prefer to trade prospects 1st, pagan 2nd, and Ike 3rd. Although what matters much more is what TB wants in return!
I also seem to have a higher opinion on the ceiling that Ike reaches, but since he is still only 23 and should have spent all year last season in the minors tuning is swing, it is hard IMO to truly project him. Still a work in progress, but with a ton of tlent (Treemendous upside potential!).
Pagan is good, but is also a 30 YO CF that had an OK overall year with the bat in 2010 (dragged down as Knog noted but a horrific couple of months). Of course, if you take out the couple of months where Ike was making adjustments mid season, then he had a fantastic year too.
To me, Pagan would be a classic Sell High situation. I just don’t expect him to bust out and have a string of 3 years or so as a stud. And if it leaves a hole at 4th OF instead, then fill that (as opposed to the much more gaping hole at SP).
also, $ comes into play. Garza is no longer going to be cheap. Maybe a bit below full market, but not Ike level bargain. Even Pagan is starting to go up there.
bottom line, I would rather get teh NEXT garza (the MiL for MiL trade of stregth from strength, like when TB got him from the Twins.)
Going back to Moneyball for a second, paying top $+ for a scarce commodity is being on the wrong end of a market inefficiency. Hell, if young, affordable SP is that wildly overpriced, trade Pelfrey for talent you need elsewhere.
OH, and if you are in the “2011 is a transition/buidling/non-competing year” club, then Pagan is way better option to trade.
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
Escucha eso y que “You people”.
jejejejeje “Get this man a mirror”
stickguy
11/5/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
I wasn’t part of this discussion. Just got here.
although sure, I like to give my opinion from time to time. usually when everyone else is wrong and needs to be straightened out!
kingman 26
11/5/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
A BIG mirror, so we can see not just Stick, but all of his life-size Duda posters too…..
stickguy
11/5/2010-12:39pm at 12:39 pm (UTC -4)
Those would be some big freaking posters. THe guy is large.
And reread my post Reyes hater. I did not mention Duda once. Hell, I was even supporting your arguement on Pagan!
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-12:31pm at 12:31 pm (UTC -4)
well Pagan most likely will never have a better season than in 2010 plus he’s 29. If you can get a 27 year old bonafide #2 SP with control until 2014 and with postseason experience.
I still dont understand why TB would keep Shields over Garza but i wont complain…
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Selling high instead of low. Shields gets you very little after the terrible year he had.
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
If they are selling high, it’s going to take more than just Mejia + duda, for sure. Not saying that is what you are saying, TRS, just saying that in general, if they are selling high, they aren’t accepting low or “reasonable” offers.
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
At this point I am not sure what Shields even brings back so obviously Garza would bring back an incredible amount more than Shields. Shields if he was traded might top out at 1 top 20 prospect and filler.
stickguy
11/5/2010-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
They work in a different cost model than the Mets. Cheaper is real important to them. Although in this case, Garza might not really be more expensive $ wise.
so, the other factor is Garza should bring back a much bigger haul than shields.
From their perspective (related to the Mets), if they could have Ike + Mejia , or Duda + Gee , which package do you want back?
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
From their perspective (related to the Mets), if they could have Ike + Mejia , or Duda + Gee , which package do you want back?
Seriously?
stickguy
11/5/2010-12:49pm at 12:49 pm (UTC -4)
yes, it was a serious question.
Just that frmo TB’s perspective, Ike + mejia costs you Garza, and Duda + gee costs you Shields.
And that is why Garza is more likely to be traded.
stickguy
11/5/2010-12:30pm at 12:30 pm (UTC -4)
235 comments, and I don’t think Depodesta was mentioned once!
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-12:32pm at 12:32 pm (UTC -4)
You sir are wrong Grave mentioned him once and I quote:
GravediggerHebner
Posted November 5, 2010 at 11:31 AM
Well said. The financial issues you note, plus Alderson’s quotes on home grown players you noted above, plus not having a cost effective on par Ike replacement in house, all combine to make me believe Ike as a piece in a Garza trade is not a realistic option from the Mets perspective.
If Alderson/Ricciardi/DePodesta? can come up with some package that entices the Rays while not including Ike I could see them going for it, if they can’t I see them passing.
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:33pm at 12:33 pm (UTC -4)
Ha, ha, ha,ah,aha,ha,ha,ahha,ha…..LOL….Just before I saw you post, I refreshed and saw 246 comments and thought the EXACT
same thing!…
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
IN YOUR FACE!!!
stickguy
11/5/2010-12:36pm at 12:36 pm (UTC -4)
Gee, how could I have missed that, buried at the bottom of a long comment, where it really had nothing to do with Depodesta, and what he would bring to the table.
\
I feel so ashamed.
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
You should be.
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
THIS IS R.D.M. Boooyyyyyy!!!!
We hijack posts like a mutha fu**!!!
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
True Dat!….Talk about a bunch of 10 year olds with A.D.D.!
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-12:53pm at 12:53 pm (UTC -4)
That’s a timeout for you.
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
Hey I hope he does hire DePodesta!
The more Italians, the more better!
kistics
11/5/2010-12:44pm at 12:44 pm (UTC -4)
Oh now it’s gonna be too much Italians and not much Latinos!
njstuckintx
11/5/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
Is there an Italian version of Los Mets? La Metos?
kistics
11/5/2010-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Mentos…
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
I had no problem with Los Mets. Just that Omar got
the wrong guys. Again though, you can never have too many Italians!
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
LOL then instead of saying were Gangsta we can say were the “METS MAFIA”
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:56pm at 12:56 pm (UTC -4)
Dude, theres no such thing as the mafia.
kistics
11/5/2010-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Just ask Charlie Samuels
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
Seriously though, I thought “The Mets Mafia”
was RIGHT HERE!
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
Nice!!!
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-1:17pm at 1:17 pm (UTC -4)
+1 speaking from a resident Italian here.
Yum…..pasta……
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
Hey we have been straight knocking out the comments this entire week!
stickguy
11/5/2010-12:37pm at 12:37 pm (UTC -4)
How about we trade them Bay for Shields?
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Done!!!
kistics
11/5/2010-12:42pm at 12:42 pm (UTC -4)
I still think it’s too early to give up on Bay. On his average season, his value is higher than Shields. Shields has had his troubles before and I think you can get him for much less.
kistics
11/5/2010-12:43pm at 12:43 pm (UTC -4)
Plus no way Rays take on Bay’s entire contract and thus the Mets need to eat portion of his contract.
stickguy
11/5/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
I wasn’t serious (although I would drive him to Fla. myself if they could make the deal). It was a joke at TRS’ expense.
kistics
11/5/2010-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
oh…
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:48pm at 12:48 pm (UTC -4)
I was all on board for Bay but am affraid in the end the type
of player he is might be a bad fit for our park.
BEFORE his “injury”, his debut was the worst I remember
for a still-in-his-prime, big time power/RBI hitter since
1982 and George Foster!
And with him, it never really got much, if any better.
TRS86
11/5/2010-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
LOL, even I would do that. Why on earth would they? Bay would never find TB he is still wandering around in the OF.
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:40pm at 12:40 pm (UTC -4)
Speaking of Knockouts anyone think getting 6to1 on Margarito
to KO Pacquiao was a good bet?
wannybackstra
11/5/2010-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
no. not unless margarito has cement in his gloves (again).
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:52pm at 12:52 pm (UTC -4)
Well I just think that b/t his continued moving up in weight and
from what I’ve seen and heard about Manny’ lack of training
AND Margarito’s desire to get his rep back AND the fact that he
is a friggin’ warrior, It was worth a wager.
stickguy
11/5/2010-12:45pm at 12:45 pm (UTC -4)
anybody see this little tidbit from Martino on Samuels? I find it amazing that anyone invloved in illegal gambling actually put it on his taxes. Although I guess it was smart, since at least you can’t get hit with jail time and penalties for tax invasion!
************************************
“Samuels, who has not been arrested, is believed to have told Major League Baseball that he bet on baseball games, a strict violation of baseball rules. Samuels, the Mets’ clubhouse manager for 27 seasons, was described by a source as a “spider who sat in the middle of a money web,” a man who earned about $80,000 a year from the Mets but whose tax returns showed about $600,000 to $700,000 in income.”
kistics
11/5/2010-12:51pm at 12:51 pm (UTC -4)
nice…
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-1:19pm at 1:19 pm (UTC -4)
I saw that.
Earlier this year when I was doing our taxes (yes, we’re probably the last couple left in America that does it manually), I laughed when I got to the section of ‘other income’. It specifically said from sources such as:
illegal drug selling
kickbacks
illegal gambling
graft
etc., etc.
Said to hubby, ‘boy you really gotta be stupid to be declaring that’.
Ceetar
11/5/2010-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
you wonder though (I always chuckle at that part) if the IRS would rather just tax you on the money than investigate. I mean if I tell ‘em I won $5000 playing party poker online through a proxy, they’re certainly going to be happy to tax me on it.
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-1:32pm at 1:32 pm (UTC -4)
I don’t know about those online internet gambling sites but I’d have to imagine the site/company is reporting winnings to the IRS, no?
Several years ago, I had friends that were ordering cigs online from Indian reservations outside of NJ b/c it was so much cheaper and didn’t charge tax. –NJ taxes the heck out of cig sales to make money.
Fast forward a few years and these same friends got a tax bill in the mail from the state of NJ.
wannybackstra
11/5/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
Garza would be a great fit for the Mets for all of the reasons TRS mentions. If I thought we could get a suitable replacement for Davis (Adam Laroche might be just that if you think — as I do — that they will essentially be the same player) I would trade him for him in a flash.
Otherwise, I would be on board to send Mejia and Duda.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-12:50pm at 12:50 pm (UTC -4)
agreed Mejia and Duda works well but Pagan, Duda and any pitching prospect not named Mejia or Harvey is preferred.
wannybackstra
11/5/2010-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
of course i’d prefer that too.
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-1:21pm at 1:21 pm (UTC -4)
My vote as well.
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:54pm at 12:54 pm (UTC -4)
Tampa would never do that…….Again, unless they suddenly fired
everyone and got Omar to run things. Then again if that happened, I’m sure Omar would hold out for FMart.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-12:58pm at 12:58 pm (UTC -4)
stranger things have happened
stickguy
11/5/2010-12:57pm at 12:57 pm (UTC -4)
I know that Laroche gets tossed around like a 4 letter word, but he is not a bad player. And if you can get that level of production from a minimum wage guy, it is actually very good for the team.
Of course, it would be much better if they could get cheap production from some more SPs…
kistics
11/5/2010-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
what 4 letter word that might be?
M-E-T-S
fongy2
11/5/2010-12:59pm at 12:59 pm (UTC -4)
He’s not a bad player at all. And when icompare Ike to him I
mean it in general terms but certainly NOT as a knock.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
execpt Ike had more walks as a rookie (without playing in April) than LaRoche has ever had in his 7 seasons so far.
TRS86
11/5/2010-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
Oh my. Wanny and I are in agreement. It really was my birthday yesterday.
kistics
11/5/2010-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
No read carefully. He said he’ll do Mejia and Duda for Garza as well. You can’t have everything.
TRS86
11/5/2010-1:11pm at 1:11 pm (UTC -4)
Oh if it only took Mejia and Duda total for Garza? Hell yeah.
wannybackstra
11/5/2010-5:05pm at 5:05 pm (UTC -4)
TRS — it’s not that we never agree. It’s that it’s much more fun when we disagree.
fongy2
11/5/2010-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
Comment #300!……..What was this thread about again???
kistics
11/5/2010-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
I’ll take the credit. I started this whole Garza thing. Thank you~
*bows*
kistics
11/5/2010-1:01pm at 1:01 pm (UTC -4)
I wonder what Alex would think about Alderson.
fongy2
11/5/2010-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
That he’s a choker!……..And certainly no ARod!
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-1:23pm at 1:23 pm (UTC -4)
Speaking of….I’m almost positive Alex surfaced again on FWICG.com under another name. Style was similar with the ever popular ‘jajajaja’ throughout.
TRS86
11/5/2010-1:24pm at 1:24 pm (UTC -4)
And yet, the only reason I have not been approved yet is because he is back logged. LOL.
metsfan4decades
11/5/2010-1:33pm at 1:33 pm (UTC -4)
Or so he tells you….
I’ve seen several new names over there commenting lately.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-2:00pm at 2:00 pm (UTC -4)
im “backlogged” as well.
Mr North Jersey
11/5/2010-2:10pm at 2:10 pm (UTC -4)
I hear “Prune Juice” is good for that.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
“your comment is awaiting moderation”
kistics
11/5/2010-1:04pm at 1:04 pm (UTC -4)
Sounds like Taka wants a 3 year deal $12-15M.
Bye bye Takahashi. Thanks for the memories~
TRS86
11/5/2010-1:06pm at 1:06 pm (UTC -4)
As Fongy and Wanny have taught me wanting and getting are two very different things.
kistics
11/5/2010-1:08pm at 1:08 pm (UTC -4)
It’s probably a starting point from Taka’s side as 1 year offer was for the Mets. But $4-5M per…. sheesh..
I think 2/$5M should be the max for Taka.
TRS86
11/5/2010-1:10pm at 1:10 pm (UTC -4)
I would even go 2/6 but that 3rd year would be just plain silly.
Ceetar
11/5/2010-1:14pm at 1:14 pm (UTC -4)
Ed Coleman said Mets offered 1.5 plus an option year, Taka asking for 2 for 2.
oleosmirf
11/5/2010-1:16pm at 1:16 pm (UTC -4)
thats pretty reasonable, 2 years 4 mil.
fongy2
11/5/2010-1:05pm at 1:05 pm (UTC -4)
Alright……Later.