" He's our next hitting coach !!"
If there is one thing that could ever be said about us Mets fans, I think the term ” schizophrenic“ would sum up the mental make up of the majority of our emotionally fragile fan base. We run hot and cold. One day we laud the hiring of Sandy Alderson and how he is going to rebuild this franchise into not just a contender – but a winner, the next day we whine that he is not moving fast enough in terms of hiring a manager. The frustration de jour of late has been the fact the Mets probably will not import any of the sexy expensive names on the free agent market because of the lack of payroll flexibility. First off there would have been less than a 25 % shot that Cliff Lee would have signed here anyway – especially when your main competition is the financially loaded Yankees. But yet there are many voices in Mets Nation ( oh how I hate that term!!)that insist it’s because the Wilpons are cheap and that Sandy Alderson is just their puppet, and that it will just be business as usual for this organization . I say that this segment of the Mets universe need a serious enema !!
First off if they listened with their ears and not with their heinies they would have heard Alderson say that they would be vigilant in the free agent market , they just don’t have the flexibility to sign aging players to long , expensive contracts. No where did he say that they were shunning the free agent market all together and next years team will look almost exactly like this past years !! The Mets can still attempt to sign a Ramon Hernandez to back up Josh Thole if he isn’t traded . He can pursue either a Orlando Hudson or a Adam Kennedy to plug up the hole at second base if Luis Castillo is either released or traded. I am sure either Edgar Renteria or Ty Wiggington can be had for a decent price to shore up the bench and There are good low cost starting pitchers on the market such as john Garland,Javier Vazquez or Brandon Webb on the market that can hold down the fort just in case Johan is out for most of the season. Add Jose Contreras to the bullpen as the eighth inning man and this team looks a bit more competitive. Are these the marquee names that we are pining for ? The answer is no – but we have to wait at least one season before the sins of Omar can be erased from the payroll ledger and Alderson’s plan can be totally implemented. I feel as is this team we have righ now is a slightly better than .500 team. With a few minor tweaks I believe they can win closer to ’87-’89 games. But we have to be patient and see how the hot stove shakes out.
And with that said… HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!
Mets alumni celebrating a birthday today are :
Mike Vail, the rookie phenom from the ’75 season is 59 (1951). Vail led the Mets that year with a .302 batting average and was on the verge of being their next superstar outfielder. But he broke his foot during a freak basketball accident, and he never put up anything close to those numbers again .
The man who single handily rebuilt the organization in the early part of the last decade – only to see it implode on his watch, former general manager, Omar Minaya is 52 (1958).
Reserve infielder from the’92 team, Junior Noboa is 46 (1964).
The ” Gambler” Kenny Rogers is 46 (1964). It still pains me to utter his name because of him walking in the the winning run of the seventh game of the NLCDS in 1999.
Butch Huskey , the one time highly touted power hitting prospect is 39 today (1971). He tore the cover off the ball when he was recalled by the Mets in ”96 hitting 13 homers in 414 at bats , unfortunately he was a feast or famine hitter who in five seasons with the Mets had 55 homer runs and a batting average of .264.
The “ Hebrew Hammer “- Shawn Green is 38 (1972).
New York Mets signed free agent outfielder, Carlos Mendoza on November 10, 1992. He would make his major league debut five years later.
Atlanta Braves signed all glove – no bat outfielder, Esix Snead of the New York Mets as a free agent on November 10, 2004.
Japanese pitching import, Shingo Takatsu was granted free agency on November 10, 2005.
Mo Vaughn is still running the New York City Marathon . He just stopped into Juniors for a slice of cheesecake !
66 comments
metsfan4decades
11/10/2010-8:29am at 8:29 am (UTC -4)
I always thought that would be more bipolar than schizophrenic, but I’m no expert.
Back in the day, especially late in the 2007 season, the posts and comments over on FWIGC.com were often comical. They ranged from ‘Season Over’ to ‘We’ve got this’, in a matter of hours, often by the same Met fans.
Today, reading the mood via comments on various sites, it runs the full spectrum from Alderson is the savior to we won’t compete in the NL East until at least 2013.
To me, I prefer to wait until I actually know what the team is going to look like next year before I write off 2011.
rustyjr
11/10/2010-8:36am at 8:36 am (UTC -4)
Well you are the most even keeled mets fan I know
metsfan4decades
11/10/2010-9:22am at 9:22 am (UTC -4)
Call me delusional but back in mid/late Sept of ’07 I honestly thought we were gonna pull that out. Didn’t think we’d actually blow that entire 7 game lead we had. I remember commenting on just that to many of the Met fans over there who said we were going to blow it.
Boy, was I wrong….
kistics
11/10/2010-8:47am at 8:47 am (UTC -4)
El Duque plays second base now? That’s awesome!
kistics
11/10/2010-8:48am at 8:48 am (UTC -4)
Hope he lost some weight though..
rustyjr
11/10/2010-8:53am at 8:53 am (UTC -4)
I wrote It at 5 am lol I’m allowed a brain fart
kistics
11/10/2010-8:58am at 8:58 am (UTC -4)
Just pulling your chains…
gategem
11/11/2010-12:22am at 12:22 am (UTC -4)
Getting up or just going to bed?/
TRS86
11/10/2010-8:52am at 8:52 am (UTC -4)
LOL, nice catch. I just saw Orlando and skipped right over it.
TRS86
11/10/2010-8:51am at 8:51 am (UTC -4)
Hmm, wonder where I fall. LOL
As for your suggestions I think this year while not a rebuilding year is a transition year. I really don’t want guys like Odawg, Eckencrappy and Contreras. My hopes are for the position players we find some good value guys that might be cast offs from other teams or we have someone in the system that has been shunned like Turner. While I would not mind a pickup of a guy like Renteria as a MI backup I am not interested in handing guys like that starting positions and most of them (Wiggy) will be seeking one in a down market. However guys like Garland, Vasquez… for the rotation intrigue me.
rustyjr
11/10/2010-8:56am at 8:56 am (UTC -4)
I meant as a one year stop gap until the bloated contracts are shed btw can you please edit the hernandez and put in Hudson ? I can’t from my phone
kistics
11/10/2010-9:08am at 9:08 am (UTC -4)
I think ODawg and/or Eckrappy would probably want a 2 year deal and to sign them to a one year deal would take some time. A bit like what happened to ODawg last offseason. 2nd base market being very shallow, ODawg or Eckrappy might get that 2nd year or an option year.
Anyways, I’d rather give Murphy/Tejada combo a chance before getting someone.
As for a SP, how much do you think the Mets will spend on a SP? I think Kuroda is an interesting candidate too. He might be little bit more expensive than Garland, but had pitched well. Durability could be a problem though. Or Kevin Correia? Correia could be had for cheaper than Garland.
TRS86
11/10/2010-9:48am at 9:48 am (UTC -4)
Kistics, I am hoping they invest around 15M in starting pitching between 2 players.
kistics
11/10/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
2 pitchers for $15M? Kuroda $10M, Vasquez $5M. I’m sold.
TRS86
11/10/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
As would I but not sure you can get Vasquez for that price. We shall see.
I just hope the Mets do see the need to obtain 2 of these type players. If Johan returns mid-season then you can deal from a strength.
I also would not mind a stable guy like Garland paired with a potential guy like Webb, Young, or even Kyle Davies through trade or FA if he reaches that.
kistics
11/10/2010-10:13am at 10:13 am (UTC -4)
Any of your options sound good. But IMO, the Mets won’t be spending $15M on 2 SPs. I think they might have $10-$15M for all of this offseason for SPs and bench/BP. Guys like Garland would probably want minimum $7-8M which would eat up most of the flexibility.
I think they’ll sign some SP at around $5-6M and trade for another. I know I’ll be opening up another can of warms, but I would love to see them trade for Garza (or Shields) and sign Webb/Young/Bedard/Dusch/Francis etc…
TRS86
11/10/2010-11:05am at 11:05 am (UTC -4)
To me they don’t need to spend a lot of money on the rest of the roster. We don’t need any 3M bullpen options or 2B options really either.
kistics
11/10/2010-8:57am at 8:57 am (UTC -4)
How about this Japanese kid Tsuyoshi Nishioka? Sounds like he can hit for average and has decent speed.
Probably hard for the Mets to get involved because you would have to post to get him. But he would be a pretty decent fit.
rustyjr
11/10/2010-9:05am at 9:05 am (UTC -4)
I think the point that people are forgetting is the mets have $ to spend – just not enough to spend on one big name player – they need good complimentary players
metsfan4decades
11/10/2010-9:27am at 9:27 am (UTC -4)
And I’m fine with not spending big bucks this off season for that one big name player. We’re not a player or two away this year, mainly because of our pitching needs. Honestly, I haven’t seen many Met fans demanding Sandy go after the likes of Cliff Lee.
If Alderson can come up with an arm or two for the SP staff that will get us through this year, we should be in good shape with the money coming off the books end of ’11.
Ceetar
11/10/2010-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
but our team shouldn’t be that bad. the offense is mostly set, and shouldn’t require high cost additions. It really should be a rather good offense. as of right now, every single person is healthy. but injuries can derail anyone..
The pitching?
We’ve got Dickey Pelfrey and Niese.
for perspective, the Yankees have C.C. returning from knee surgery, Hughes, and Burnett. Are they really that much better off? Obviously they’re rumored to be going after Lee and we’re not, but there is no guarentee that he goes there.
metsfan4decades
11/10/2010-9:38am at 9:38 am (UTC -4)
I one of those in the camp of not writing off 2011 yet. I don’t even know what the team will look like, let alone the other NL teams.
It’s baseball – anything can happen. Anything usually does.
I think it’s all going to come down to our SP staff though – and an arm or two in the BP.
Ceetar
11/10/2010-9:14am at 9:14 am (UTC -4)
I think the Mets could afford that. It’s not adding to payroll, it’s just money. (well, the posting is.)
kistics
11/10/2010-9:28am at 9:28 am (UTC -4)
Right. But are the Mets willing to shell out $10-20M to post for this guy? He’ll probably want a multi year (3-4 yr) deal on top of that as well.
Ceetar
11/10/2010-9:32am at 9:32 am (UTC -4)
I think the 3-4 year deal holds them back more than posting $20 million.
kistics
11/10/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
Agreed.
TRS86
11/10/2010-9:46am at 9:46 am (UTC -4)
I think the Mets would factor that in as part of the salary. If they believed he was a 3 year option at 2B then I think Sandy would look at it.
TRS86
11/10/2010-9:34am at 9:34 am (UTC -4)
I am intrigued by him but the question is how much does the posting cost? Also, how enamored is Sandy with the Mets current/future 2B options? It would not make sense to sign him long-term if Sandy loves him some Havens, Valdespin, Tejada, Murphy….
oleosmirf
11/10/2010-11:02am at 11:02 am (UTC -4)
thats too much money to spend on a complete unknown. when you factor in the posting and the contract, there isnt enough money to get him and anything else really.
kingman 26
11/10/2010-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
LOL!!!
Rusty, you really had me laughing at your oh-so-accurate descriptions up there, especially the enema and heinie references, which were perfect.
This 3-headed braintrust is more than any of us could have hoped for, and while some are free to fantasize about 2011 playoffs and having the best lineup in the NL next year, I look at it as morning in Metland (NOT Met Nation, at your request!) right now.
2012 will see expensive players added and the combo of these three new guys, with the Mets’ resources, is going to reward us in a few years, VERY handsomely.
And yes, I remember that Kenny Rogers pitch so well. Was watching the game with my Dad when I lived in Seattle and he was visiting in his hotel room. What a crazy game. You could just see that walk coming though; Rogers was terrified of throwing Andruw a fastball and as soon as I saw the grip in his glove, I knew it was all over. Still, along with McDowell/Pendleton and Gooden/Scioscia, one of the most painful pitches in Met history.
Great work as always my friend!
metsfan4decades
11/10/2010-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
Ted Berg making a case for a one year solution at second base in the form of Edgar Renteria.
http://www.tedquarters.net/2010/11/09/a-potential-fit/
Ceetar
11/10/2010-9:35am at 9:35 am (UTC -4)
decent case.
TRS86
11/10/2010-9:40am at 9:40 am (UTC -4)
I am also intrigued by Edgar but I think he would fit better as a bench guy and mentor for a 2B option. I would not be upset with him in a platoon situation either. I just really want to see what these young guys offer for 2B. Honestly, 2B is such a weak hitting position in general that I don’t think it’s a must to have a heavy hitter there.
I mean is Orlando Hudson’s .268 .338 .372 .710 really worth 6M more than our in-house options? Honestly I think that a rebounding Castillo could surpass all of those numbers except obviously SLG. I would expect .280 .350, .330, .680 or more from Castillo. Who knows how much below our other in house options will be? Regardless when we need so much, I can’t see spending 6M of that on a 2B option that will hit close to .700 OPS.
kistics
11/10/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
I agree. If Murphy can play decent defense at 2B, his bat should be more than sufficient to surpass any of available 2B options.
kingman 26
11/10/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
“I mean is Orlando Hudson’s .268 .338 .372 .710 really worth 6M more than our in-house options?”
No, no, and NO!
No way they’re bringing in Renteria or Hudson nor should they.
This team is definitely done with aging vets well past their primes.
Murph or Tejada will probably be playing second. Which I welcome.
Enough with aging free agents just coming here for another payday.
Out with the old and in with the new!
kistics
11/10/2010-9:57am at 9:57 am (UTC -4)
ODawg is not that old. He’s going to be turning 33 in December.
TRS86
11/10/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
That’s 99 for a 2B.
kistics
11/10/2010-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
oh.. good thing i’m not playing 2B…
kingman 26
11/10/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
And his game was down almost across the board—have we not learned enough yet about signing aging players clearly past their primes as free agents?
There is zero chance that the new braintrust is bringing in a vastly overrated, aging 2B whose OBP has declined four straight years.
TRS86
11/10/2010-10:00am at 10:00 am (UTC -4)
Edgar only intrigues me as a bench/platoon guy at that type of money as well. If you can get him for one year at 3M or less and he is ok with backing up Reyes and playing 2B while mentoring our youth… fine. Odawg, no way he settles for that role.
Ceetar
11/10/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
If they don’t sign anyone, I don’t see how Castillo won’t be the starting 2Bman. I think it’ll be pretty obvious in spring that he’ll be the best option.
TRS86
11/10/2010-10:04am at 10:04 am (UTC -4)
Not sure that will be the case at all. For one I fully expect Sandy to desperately try and trade Castillo. Also we know that Luis is not the type of guy that wants anything to do with mentoring our youth.
Ceetar
11/10/2010-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
We know that? I though Castillo was helping Tejada out?
We’ll see I guess. I imagine a lot depends on how they think Murphy shakes out.
TRS86
11/10/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
I thought it was well published that Castillo was sulking about being benched for Tejada.
Ceetar
11/10/2010-10:11am at 10:11 am (UTC -4)
yes, and rightfully so.
However bitching about playing time and thinking/knowing you’re an everyday player is one thing, helping out teammates is another. I’m pretty sure I read reports that Castillo was working with Tejada at least a little bit. or at least answering questions.
TRS86
11/10/2010-10:34am at 10:34 am (UTC -4)
Rightfully so? The Mets out of the race and decided to make the move to a younger player. Just what they should have done. Regardless of good decision or poor decision by the Mets.
I like Castillo but I hope his time, as it should be, in NY is done.
Ceetar
11/10/2010-10:41am at 10:41 am (UTC -4)
the Mets weren’t out of it . it was a long shot, but even David Wright questioned why they seemed to be sending mixed signals in that regard.
I think we’d seen enough of Tejada to realize he wasn’t likely going to be a good option for 2011, so I’m not sure there was a ton of value in bringing him up and playing him every day. And of course, they demoted F-Mart again when they felt he wasn’t ready/good enough. mixed signals. Hopefully those days are over.
Ceetar
11/10/2010-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
And regardless, it was very very clear that Castillo was/is a better player. From his stand point, shoudln’t he be annoyed that he was benched for a lesser player? Shouldn’t he have felt that they will still in it, and should play to win?
kingman 26
11/10/2010-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
Actually, it will probably be pretty obvious that he is the third best option–barring surprises that move him down.
kistics
11/10/2010-10:19am at 10:19 am (UTC -4)
Yeah I agree. If Murphy can play decent 2B, I think he’ll be the Mets best option.
TRS86
11/10/2010-9:54am at 9:54 am (UTC -4)
Can someone please turn the Lee watch off? I am tired of going to Mets sites and seeing minute by minute updates on where Lee is going. Why do we care? Go somewhere, make lots of money, be that 30something pitcher that breaks down, fine.
Ceetar
11/10/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
It’s like this every season. Metsblog will post an update about every major free agent, and the commenters will berate the front office for not doing something about them.
kistics
11/10/2010-10:02am at 10:02 am (UTC -4)
Haha I hear Lee was eating grapes this morning and was reading the newspaper while sitting on his favorite gold toilet.
metsfan4decades
11/10/2010-10:03am at 10:03 am (UTC -4)
Maybe he’ll sign somewhere sooner rather than later and we can stop reading about it.
I’ll give it 95% he goes to the Yankees.
And I can’t believe the Phillies are reported to be in on that. Are they really going to increase their payroll to exceed some 170MIL to get him? — because I don’t see how they can shed payroll unless they can get some team dumb enough to take Ibanez or Lidge with those contract.
I see they’re also in on Vertik?
TRS86
11/10/2010-10:05am at 10:05 am (UTC -4)
Question, not likely but could they shed an Ibanez if he was paired with Hamels?
Could they find a taker in a down market for Blanton?
stickguy
11/10/2010-10:53am at 10:53 am (UTC -4)
Blanton is the (relatively) big money contract that they think they can move. So that would end up being a net increase of ~ 15mill, depending on exactly what Lee gets and if they eat any Blanton salary.
No chance they trade hamels though. The rest of the rotation is ancient (by BB Sp standards). although with some of the odd moves that their FO has made recently, who knows?
If you want another Philly prediction, they let Rollins walk after 2011 (his option year).
Ceetar
11/10/2010-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
All these teams looking for SS in 2012 is exactly why we need to lock up Reyes now.
TRS86
11/10/2010-11:04am at 11:04 am (UTC -4)
Thing is they have to know their window is closing so they may look to bring in Lee and trade a Hamels just to make sure they get another ring during that window.
Something to keep in mind, I thought there was a report that Lee was pissed at the Phillies and was openly rooting against them.
Mr North Jersey
11/10/2010-11:09am at 11:09 am (UTC -4)
I wouldnt read too much into the pissed part if these are the quotes being refered to.
“Kind of mixed emotions, to be honest with you,” Lee said of how he watched the games. “I pulled for a lot of those guys, but it’s weird, when a team gets rid of you, you kind of like seeing them lose a little bit.”
Hoo boy.
“I know that’s weird,” Lee continued, “but part of me wanted them to win where I could face them in the World Series, too. It would have been a lot of fun.”
No doubt, it would have. Instead of Lee-Tim Lincecum, it could have been Lee-Roy Halladay in Game 1 at Citizens Bank Park, with Lee — a beloved figure in Philadelphia — on the mound for the opposing team.
Lee said he would have enjoyed that.
“When a team gets rid of you, it’s funny how you have a knack for stepping up a little more when you face them,” he said. “There’s a little more incentive to beat them, and that’s definitely the case with me watching the game.
“I was in between. I didn’t want to have to face them or want to have to face the Giants. I let that series play out, and I pulled for those guys individually, but I didn’t mind seeing them get beat, either, just because they got rid of me. That is what it is.”
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies_zone/Lee_on_Phillies.html
Prismo
11/10/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
100% agree – not sure if you saw my comment about this a few days ago. What does Lee have to do with the Mets? They’re not signing him, so what gives?
Now, if an NL East team signs a huge FA like Lee, I can see writing *one* post about it, because it could affect the Mets. But no need for a constant stream of updates.
kingman 26
11/10/2010-10:15am at 10:15 am (UTC -4)
The Lee watch is only on for the Met fans Rusty so accurately describes up above.
Would we even WANT to spend $120 million on a 32 year old pitcher? No way.
Prismo
11/10/2010-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
No way!
TRS86
11/10/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
I don’t get that type of desire either.
They were talking about Lee on MLBN radio this morning and it was something I had not given much thought about. Lee is the type of pitcher that when is stuff is on he is unhittable, however when he losses command or is not on his game he is very hittable. To me that is what separates him from guys like CC, Halladay and even Johan. These types can give you 7 innings of 3 run ball even when they are not on. It may take them 120 pitches to do so but they get it done. I don’t know why but to me that does not apply to Lee.
Prismo
11/10/2010-10:37am at 10:37 am (UTC -4)
You’re correct, check out Lee’s August stats from this (last) season.
Runs given up per start in August: 4/1/4/6/8/5/4
The Rangers lost every one of those games except for the 1-run start.
Now, he was stellar in June, July, and September…but how much would Mets fans dog him if he had a run like he did in August?
oleosmirf
11/10/2010-11:10am at 11:10 am (UTC -4)
The best option for 2B is Daniel Murphy iff he can play the position no worse than Dan Uggla and can put up at least the offensive numbers he did in 2009.
GravediggerHebner
11/10/2010-11:53am at 11:53 am (UTC -4)
Mets nation? I thought it was Red Sox nation, and Yankee universe. I’ve always thought of it as Mets township.