As you’ve probably heard by now the Mets search for a field manager has been painstakingly whittled down to four candidates. A fun coincidence is that all four have ties to the Mets organization. Adam Rubin of ESPNNewYork reports those candidates are (alphabetically, don’t want you to read anything into the order) Wally Backman, Terry Collins, Chip Hale and Bob Melvin. May the best candidate win.
actually professional baseball, 2010 and New York but otherwise...
36 comments
njstuckintx
11/16/2010-10:39pm at 10:39 pm (UTC -4)
ooooohhhhh…. A Houston reference.
My vote is Hale, then Collins, then Melvin then Backman.
TRS86
11/16/2010-10:43pm at 10:43 pm (UTC -4)
I can agree with that order. I might call a toss up between Hale and Collins with Backman for sure bringing up the rear.
Prismo
11/16/2010-10:45pm at 10:45 pm (UTC -4)
Hale – Melvin – Collins (toss up between M/C) – Backman
GravediggerHebner
11/16/2010-10:48pm at 10:48 pm (UTC -4)
The Houston reference was just for you.
The Genesis reference was because the new manager will find himself Down and Out, caught in the Undertow, Snowbound with nothing but a Burning Rope, have Many Too Many problems with the roster, and be disheartened by the Follow You Follow Me orders from the front office. Or maybe just for the album title.
Prismo
11/16/2010-10:45pm at 10:45 pm (UTC -4)
One Manager to rule them all
One Manager to find them
One Manager to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Flushing where the Shadows lie.
-Lord of the Mets: Fellowship of the Manager
GravediggerHebner
11/16/2010-10:59pm at 10:59 pm (UTC -4)
If it were up to me I’d go with Hale as manager, Melvin as bench coach, leave Collins in his current MiLB field coordinator job and promote Backman up to one of the full season A ball teams as manager.
If the current players truly need their manager to be a cattle prod up their asses then let Sandy and the Super Friends ™ form a new roster of players that don’t.
stickguy
11/16/2010-11:04pm at 11:04 pm (UTC -4)
so hire them all. Good idea.
I actually think you are right about them all coming in (or staying) even if you got the roles wrong. Since 3 work for the team already, and none have other jobs for next year, not tough. It really means hiring Melvin to do something.
stickguy
11/16/2010-11:58pm at 11:58 pm (UTC -4)
dang, I forgot that Melvin is on staff too.
should make it easy on the HR department.
njstuckintx
11/16/2010-11:07pm at 11:07 pm (UTC -4)
Considering they all have Mets ties, (Hey, so does Sandy!), your idea ain’t all that far fetched.
stickguy
11/16/2010-11:02pm at 11:02 pm (UTC -4)
an interesting bunch. But with just 4, and some pretty known quantities, since 3 worked for the team this season, round 2 should not take long.
at this point, I don’t know how i would rank them. especially since all I know about some of them is what was reported via the media.
The only one I am leery of is Collins, just the whole history at his other gig deals.
and if the Wright stuff (about no discipline) is worth worrying about, is hale tainted by that? Or is the 3B coach to removed to take the heat?
I also am not worried about Wally from any personality (melt down) perspective. Just worried about too many sac bunts!
So I guess that just leave Melvin to take as a favorite. Wonder how he got into this mix?
njstuckintx
11/16/2010-11:13pm at 11:13 pm (UTC -4)
Well, discipline for a dead man (men) walking is never present. See the Dallas Cowboys as an example. Same with Omar and Jerry. Considering that there is a possibility that Sandy takes some one out behind the shed and kicks the living crap out of them… I’m not to worried about discipline.
kingman 26
11/16/2010-11:05pm at 11:05 pm (UTC -4)
Hale’s primary job was infield coach.
Could Wright and Reyes have gotten worse in the field?
I wonder if he was one of the coaches who “were afraid to assert authority over the players.”
Definitely the wrong choice.
Collins or Backman it will be.
Prismo
11/16/2010-11:08pm at 11:08 pm (UTC -4)
streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch
kingman 26
11/16/2010-11:13pm at 11:13 pm (UTC -4)
Yes, you are right.
Two Gold Glove-level fielders reverted to mediocrity; Reyes especially and Wright forgot how to throw.
Wright says the coaches are afraid to discipline the players.
Solution: hire a coach from the disaster of 2010!
Yessssssssssssssssssssssssss!
Prismo
11/16/2010-11:17pm at 11:17 pm (UTC -4)
First of all, 2010 was not a disaster by any stretch of the word. 6 teams in the NL alone finished with worse records than the Mets. 4 games below .500 isn’t a disaster, unless you’re a spoiled Yankee fan (not you specifically, someone in general). It’s a very disappointing season, nothing more, nothing less.
And Collins hasn’t had any disasters of his own? I would say have two teams worth of players petition to get you fired is pretty much a walking disaster.
kingman 26
11/16/2010-11:21pm at 11:21 pm (UTC -4)
Collins’ teams finished above .500 and in second place all five of his full years.
That’s far better than this team has done the last two years.
And I disagree; with our payroll and roster, 2010 was a disaster.
We had the 20th best record in baseball with a top 5 payroll.
That’s pretty bad.
Mr North Jersey
11/17/2010-3:55am at 3:55 am (UTC -4)
Prismo for me outside of a 33 game stretch the season was a disaster.
Speaking for myself the record does not accurately reflect how bad the team played overall this season.
I would guess there are those that feel differently and I don’t wish to tell them otherwise but as far as me saying the season wasn’t a disaster due to the Mets finishing only 4 games below .500 it will never happen.
Ceetar
11/16/2010-11:17pm at 11:17 pm (UTC -4)
Reyes didn’t get fielding spring training either, and he didn’t take any of that when he hurt is oblique (and he looked rusty and sloppy when he returned after that)
I do recall it being credited to Hale that Wright was throwing with that little sidearm loopy thing. To be honest, I thought that was just fine and he wasn’t seemingly missing as much. A lot of his failings seemed to be some basic stuff, and ranging to his left more. bad positioning? I’d been pondering if the infield was positioning itself properly a lot the last couple of years.
njstuckintx
11/16/2010-11:20pm at 11:20 pm (UTC -4)
who was responsible for positioning?
kingman 26
11/16/2010-11:22pm at 11:22 pm (UTC -4)
Well, it couldn’t be the infield coach!
Ceetar
11/16/2010-11:25pm at 11:25 pm (UTC -4)
No idea. Manuel? Razor? all of ‘em? the infielders themselves?
njstuckintx
11/16/2010-11:16pm at 11:16 pm (UTC -4)
King, I’ve no way to confirm that it was Hale, the system, or what that caused their decline in D. I can’t drop the whole load on Hale. Him being cognizant enough to where you didn’t even notice the 3B coach (sign of a good 3B coach, in my mind) speaks a lot for him, and if you can take solace in one thing, Hale would have to appoint a new infield coach. Maybe Jose Oquindo?
kingman 26
11/16/2010-11:19pm at 11:19 pm (UTC -4)
I think new blood is VERY badly needed.
I will be shocked and hugely disappointed if they choose Hale.
He was a part of the disaster of last year.
Some look at Warthen and correctly note the performance of Dickey, Pelf, Niese, and some pen guys.
What do we see when we look at Hale as infield coach? A dramatic decline?
Sure, a 3rd base coach who is not noticed is better than one who is negatively noticed.
But we need to change the culture 180 degrees and bringing in one of last year’s coaches is not the way to do it in my opinion.
njstuckintx
11/16/2010-11:22pm at 11:22 pm (UTC -4)
I can go with that thought. I personally don’t roll with it, but I see the mindset. In that regards, does Warthan need to go too? IE, a total clean slate.
kingman 26
11/16/2010-11:24pm at 11:24 pm (UTC -4)
In my opinion, they all need to go.
But Warthen is the only one who I think a reasonable case could even be made for keeping.
A 3rd base coach with no MLB managing experience who was ineffectual as infield coach?
Why?
njstuckintx
11/16/2010-11:31pm at 11:31 pm (UTC -4)
Again, i see the point you are making and it’s logical, mr. spock. Going on what i’ve read, gut feeling, etc. I think Hale will do a very good job. The reservations about Wally’s, well, Wally-ness, Melvin’s less than stellar Major league track record and the whole Collins/Mo debacle leads me to be re-affirmed on the Hale factor.
Like i said, I can role with what you say and in the long scheme of things wil not be overly upset if Hale isn’t chosen and 1 of the other 3 are.
Can I get a “Let’s Go Mets”? Cause that’s why we’re here, no?
stickguy
11/17/2010-12:05am at 12:05 am (UTC -4)
we have discussed Reyes before, but I believe that missing ST, then playing 1/2 the year taped up like a mummy with a sore side was the cause of any decline in his D. Not anything to do with Hale.
I have no idea if he helped wright, hurt him, or was irrelevant. Now, the discipline issue is legit, but we have no idea how Hale fit into that. If anything, you are damning him by association.
besides, even if he was not perfect as an infield coach, that has nothing really to do with this ability to manage.
oleosmirf
11/16/2010-11:35pm at 11:35 pm (UTC -4)
im honestly undecided between Hale and Collins. I liked Hale, i thought he was a genuine nice guy who seemed pretty sharp and well-liked plus he was a very good 3B coach. Collins on the other hand is more of disciplinarian and fiery guy who we probably need to change the culture of the team.
stickguy
11/16/2010-11:57pm at 11:57 pm (UTC -4)
Just had to copy this from FWICG. Just too good to pass up, and he has plenty of friends (and look out, they are starting to turn on each other over there). And this post was a continuation, complaining about the Met FO sleeping on Uggla, and not making any moves yet.
Luis Nov 16, 2010, 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #
MAYBE BUT AS U KNOW WE NEED A 2 BASEMENT TEJADA IS( NOT ) READY LET’S NOT TALK ABOUT CASTILLO, JUSTIN TUNER IS A ????? ALSO WE NEED A BACK UP CATCHER,WE NEED A NUMBER 2 PITCHER BECAUSE PERFREY IS NOT ACE MAYBE A #3…. NOW TELL ME IF AN NOT RIGHT TO BE SICK OF IT.????????????
Reply
Mr North Jersey
11/17/2010-12:24am at 12:24 am (UTC -4)
Grave my apologies in advance after spending 3 hours on this Hot Mets Ring Girl announcing round 2 I saw that you posted tonight the announcement.
I don’t know if I will ever have a chance to use her again so I hope you don’t mind my post tomorrow morning at 6:00 reemphasizing this post but in a Boxing sense so that I can at least see the fruits of my labor.
GravediggerHebner
11/17/2010-12:38am at 12:38 am (UTC -4)
Go for it man. I covered the NCAA tournament angle and the 70′s progressive rock angle but the boxing angle is wide open.
Prismo
11/17/2010-1:19am at 1:19 am (UTC -4)
Hot Mets Ring Girl? I am so confused by your post i don’t even know where to begin. WTF!?
GravediggerHebner
11/17/2010-1:19am at 1:19 am (UTC -4)
As far as not wanting Hale because he sat in the dugout with Manuel I can respect that. I disagree with it just like I disagreed that Manuel couldn’t have the job because he’d sat in the dugout with Willie, but I respect it as a different yet valid opinion.
But to selectively decide that Wright and Reyes were worsened by Hale seems unfair and perhaps unprovable. It also leaves out 50% of the infield.
It would be like giving credit to Warthen for “Dickey, Pelfrey, Niese and some pen guys” but not assigning him blame for Maine, Perez, Feliciano, Mejia, Parnell, Igarashi, Stoner, Green, Nieve, Valdes…
Wright played 141 more innings at 3B in 2010 than he did in 2009. In ’10 he had 9 fewer putouts, 97 more assists (he led the NL in 3B assists), the same number of fielding errors, 2 more throwing errors, turned 11 more double plays, had a fielding percentage .006 higher, had the 4th best range factor per game and the 2nd best range factor per 9 innings in the NL, got worse in RngR but better in ErrR, worse in actual UZR but better in UZR/150, improved his RF/9 and his RF/G despite the fact that these last two stats went down overall in the league, improved his Rtot and Rtot/yrs, and improved his Rndrs and Rndrs/yrs.
I don’t know what the hell many of those things are but I see more areas and/or measurements that suggest improvement than regression from pre-Hale to Hale for Wright. Should we blame Hale for the fact that Wright made 2 more throwing errors in 141 more innings over the previous season?
Reyes missed 30 games so I can’t do much with his counting stats but his fielding percentage of .973 was an improvement over 2009 by .007 and is .001 below his career percentage. He did get significantly worse in RngR and UZR, and slightly worse in UZR/150, but improved in ErrR, his Rtot and Rtot/yrs got worse but his Rndr and Rndr/yrs improved, and like Wright his RF/G and RF/9 improved over 2009 for him as an individual while going down for the league as a whole.
I see that as a bit of a mixed bag, not an obvious decline, and I’m willing to assign more of that to injuries than I am to Chip Hale.
Interestingly enough it’s Ruben Tejada who might serve as a good example if one is going to criticize the infield defense, his various percentages and factors as a 2B were all below league average for 2B (but he has no prior season without Hale to compare as an individual).
Davis, like Tejada lacks a previous Hale-free season, his fielding percentage was equal to league average but his range factors are well above league average.
It is my opinion after reading these stats, which one can of course not take stock in but I would want to know what criteria they were using to pass judgment, that the concept of the infield falling apart under Hale’s tutelage has been exaggerated.
metsfan4decades
11/17/2010-6:55am at 6:55 am (UTC -4)
Someone’s been studying up on sabermetrics!
Once again, the voice of reason here. It was good to see the perspective on Wright as it pertains to his stats.
As far as Reyes, I know many of us have said this time and time again but missing almost all of ’09, then in ’10 no ST, then the oblique injury he tried to play through instead of resting all contributed to some of his regression, IMO. I’m more than willing to see what a healthy Reyes brings to the table in ’11. I’m not willing to believe right now that a 27 year old has regressed to the point that some believe he has.
kingman 26
11/17/2010-9:30am at 9:30 am (UTC -4)
Well, Manuel was one of Jerry’s coaches and how did that work out overall? Was there one bright spot?
Wright claims that the coaches are afraid to discipline the players. Hale is one of the coaches.
Are you going to deny that Reyes was worse in the field last year than ever? And I did not say they “fell apart” I said that Wright and Reyes were clearly not as good as they had been, and they weren’t.
Maybe during infield practice while Jose’s mind was wandering (if it wanders during games, I wonder how much it wanders during practice?) Hale was hesitant to call him on it?
I just cannot see how hiring a coach from the 2010 train wreck could possibly be a good idea.
If they didn’t listen to him and he was too timid to command respect in 2010, what will be different in 2011?
In retrospect, hiring Jerry was a disaster, and new blood was needed.
I will be astonished and appalled if they CONTINUE to drag on the Era of Shame by hiring another coach from the Willie/Jerry era, which has seen the team decline four straight years.
Yes, they won more in 2010 than 2009, but without the incredible injuries; the team certainly was no better in 2010 than it was in 2009.
oleosmirf
11/17/2010-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
well a relatively unknown 3rd base coach can’t really intervene much in that sense b/c that would mean he’s going against the manager but I do agree that we need that no-nonsense SOB in the clubhouse.
Collins as the manager, Melvin as bench coach, Hale returning as 3rd base coach. I would also love to see Rick Down back as hitting coach, Rickey back as 1st base coach. I have no problem bringing back Warthen as well.