" Vince Coleman's motto !"
With the exception of the tragic passing of Sandy Alderson’s father and the announcement that Mets Managerial Idol has entered the final round, there has been very little Mets news to get worked up over.
So if you haven’t noticed over the past few days I have asked your opinions which have ranged from ” Who is your least favorite Met of all time? – to ” What Met do you think was underrated/ overlooked ?”
Well now I am going to ask a rather subjective question because through the years the Mets have dived head first into the free agency pool with rather mixed results.
So my question is who do you think the Mets free agent signing in the 35 years since it was implemented ? By Te way, I will not accept the names Beltran or Bay as viable candidates so get over it ! Is it Bobby Bonilla – the man who promised that the New York Media ” Couldn’t wipe the smile off his face ” ( but the fans and official scorers drove him to wearing earplugs). Is it Moises Alou – a man who when healthy ( which was not often) was able to help propel the team to victory . Maybe it was Scott Schoenweiss, a great guy and team mate but he just couldn’t pitch well when the game was on the line . It can be somebody even more recent such as last years Japanese import – Ryota Irigashi. He made us wish the Mets offered Takahasi the two year contract . Then there is everyone’s favorite whipping boy – Oliver Perez. I know we didn’t sign Ollie away from a opposing team, but he technically was a free agent and he has been a total bust since we re-signed him.
For me the answer is simple , it had to be Vince Coleman. I was very wary when I first heard the news that he had signed with the Mets in ’91 I was furious. I always felt that he was the enemy from his days with the Cardinals ( it would be like signing Chase Utley today). Vince Coleman proved me right. in his two and a half seasons with the Mets he lallygagged it in the outfield, he didn’t hit much, and his base stealing abilities had eroded – which was his bread and butter. But I would have lived with that but when he threw that fire cracker into a crowd after a game in Los Angeles, seriously injuring a little girl – he in my opinion sealed his fate as the wort free agent signing in Mets history.
And with that said…. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!
Mets alumni celebrating birthdays today are :
The man who is the only player to be elected in to the Hall of Fame, Tom Seaver is 66 (1944) . If there was ever a man who should be synonymous with the Mets it is Seaver! He is a true Mets icon and there have been very few pitchers to follow him that were anywhere near the caliber of player that he was !
Utilityman from the ’06 team, Eli Marrero is 37 (1973).
Relief pitcher from the ’00 season, Jim Mann is 36 (1974) .
Florida Marlins drafted reserve outfielder, Chris Donnels from the Mets on November 17, 1992.
New York Mets signed free agent and Brooklyn born outfielder, outfielder, John Cangelosi on November 17, 1993.
And while you are taking bets on who will be the next Mets manager , just remember that there are just 135 days until the Mets open the 2011 season against the Florida Marlins in Miami, and 142 days until the Mets 2011 home opener against the Washington Nationals at Citi Field.
Mo Vaughn gave a sigh of relief when he didn’tsee his name on this list !
60 comments
metsfan4decades
11/17/2010-7:01am at 7:01 am (UTC -4)
I think I’m going to agree with you, Rusty.
I’m giving the nod to Vince Coleman over Ollie right now only because of the attitude.
I don’t rightly remember how much we paid Coleman but IMO he really was very full of himself. Ollie, as bad as he’s been, hasn’t really shown me that same kind of arrogant attitude, despite not wanting to go to the minors (if he was even asked to).
It’s close though because for 36MIL over 3 years we’ve got very little production out of Perez, if any at all.
rustyjr
11/17/2010-7:40am at 7:40 am (UTC -4)
Yeah vince had that aura of aloofness as soon as the mets jersey touched his skin
oleosmirf
11/17/2010-9:07am at 9:07 am (UTC -4)
i said it the day he signed and I will stick with it. Oliver Perez is the worst free agent signing in the history of the New York Mets.
btw Jake Westbrook just resigned with STL for 2 years 16.5 mil with a mutual option for 2013 and a full no-trade clause. So for those of you hoping that someone like Garland will wind up in Queens should lower their expectations…
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-9:16am at 9:16 am (UTC -4)
They overpaid for Westbrook.
I’ll still have hope, but like you mention, the odds of it happening are dwindling quickly.
oleosmirf
11/17/2010-9:31am at 9:31 am (UTC -4)
that might be true but remember Kuroda also re-signed with LA for 1 year 12 mil so I don’t see how Garland will sign for anything less than 8-10 mi a year something the Mets probably cant afford.
I expect a #4 SP like Vicente Padilla, Kevin Correia, Jeff Francis or Aaron Harang if they go the FA route and in house like Dillon Gee or a minor league invitee for the #5
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-9:37am at 9:37 am (UTC -4)
the one factor that keeps me hopeful is that Garland wouldn’t require anything longer than a 2 year deal and I’m going to go with the assumption that Sandy is not working with a complete hardline number for the salary this year. I would expect he would be given some wiggle room, maybe 10 mil? If he doesn’t, well, bye bye garland. And i’d take 2 years of garland at 8.5 a year.
oleosmirf
11/17/2010-9:51am at 9:51 am (UTC -4)
the Mets are no giving out a multi-year contract for mid-tier rotation guys. They might give a bullpen guy a 2 year deal but you dont give a gauranteed roster spot next season in the rotation when all that money is coming off the books next season.
you sign a guy to eat innings this year, let him go and then next season with all that money coming off you now have the ability to sign a better player.
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-9:56am at 9:56 am (UTC -4)
So then Vazquez it is.
And as to the innings eater thing, what’s the point of throwing 200+ innings if they aren’t that good for said 200+ innings. Just saying.
oleosmirf
11/17/2010-9:59am at 9:59 am (UTC -4)
well obviously they have to be semi-decent but I dont see how Vasquez will sign for 1 year 4 mil given his track-record of success in teams that dont play in NY and thats the max I believe we will/can go.
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-10:01am at 10:01 am (UTC -4)
Based on that, it’s going to be a long 2011.
kistics
11/17/2010-10:06am at 10:06 am (UTC -4)
Agreed. He’ll certainly get better offers elsewhere.
oleosmirf
11/17/2010-10:07am at 10:07 am (UTC -4)
i don’t think we will be any worse than last year b/c even though our pitching wont be nearly as good, the atmosphere plus a healthy Beltran and Reyes will get us maybe to winning record
kistics
11/17/2010-9:44am at 9:44 am (UTC -4)
I agree. I don’t see Garland signing any less than what Westbrook signed for. If anything Garland had a better season and is younger (?).
I like Francis and Harang. But how much do they want? I know the Rockies want Francis back and he want to stay in Colorado. Harang would be a great choice, but will he sign for $3-5M?
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-9:47am at 9:47 am (UTC -4)
I’d prefer they stayed away from Harang. Far away.
kistics
11/17/2010-9:53am at 9:53 am (UTC -4)
You’d rather go with someone less risky?
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-9:58am at 9:58 am (UTC -4)
At this point, I don’t think I would classify Harang as high risk, high reward. He’s more of a High Risk, Low reward.
If he’s coming in at 1 mil per, I’d consider a 1 year deal as you can cut ties real quickly and easily, but Harangs last few years haven’t been pretty. Maybe it’s a product of his home ballpark, but I’d guess checking his pitching stats on the road would help to give clarity if it was the ballpark or just him sucking.
kistics
11/17/2010-10:08am at 10:08 am (UTC -4)
I think he can certainly benefit from change of scenery. I would offer him 1/3M.
oleosmirf
11/17/2010-10:16am at 10:16 am (UTC -4)
im not very high on Harang. To me Vicente Padilla is the kind of guy we should go after. Not sure if he is still injured or not but his numbers last season were pretty good despite the ERA slightly above 4.
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-10:18am at 10:18 am (UTC -4)
His Whip has gone up the past 3 years in a row to a 1.585 last year. His Innings pitched have declined the last 4 years in a row. His K/9 has declined 3 years in a row. I just can’t see even throwing 3 mil his way. I can barely see throwing 1 mil his way, unless it was such a heavily incentive based.
kistics
11/17/2010-9:49am at 9:49 am (UTC -4)
This is not the worst signing, but I think Pedro Martinez should be mentioned here as well. He may have had good influence off the field or whatever. But his production was pretty much non-existent after his first season.
oleosmirf
11/17/2010-9:52am at 9:52 am (UTC -4)
i was thinking of that too but i’m not sure Pedro’s laid back and goofball personality is good for the change of culture we’re trying to get
kistics
11/17/2010-9:55am at 9:55 am (UTC -4)
I guess during his tenure with the Mets, it may have worked. But look where the Mets have come since. Looking back, I’m not sure his goofball personality (and Delgado’s) were good for the Mets. Of course, I didn’t mind it at all when they were winning in ’06.
So I have no idea what I’m talking about… lol
TRS86
11/17/2010-10:27am at 10:27 am (UTC -4)
Who the hell said the Mets only have 5M to spend? Was it ANYONE connected to the Mets or just an unnamed source?
I will wait and see before I proclaim that the Mets only have 5M available.
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-10:29am at 10:29 am (UTC -4)
AMEN!
kingman 26
11/17/2010-10:33am at 10:33 am (UTC -4)
Joel Sherman NY Post:
“Recently when I suggested to a Mets official that there is not a lot to do with $5 million in available cash this offseason, the official responded back, “I don’t know if we even have $5 million.” “
oleosmirf
11/17/2010-10:39am at 10:39 am (UTC -4)
i think thats a little harsh and probably not accurate but I don’t see given our lack of guys in AAA, how we can spend 8-10 mil on lets say Garland and replace guys like Takahashi and Feliciano in the bullpen.
kingman 26
11/17/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Wright, Reyes, Bay, Beltran, KRod, Santana, Perez and Castillo eat up $111.5 million according to Cots. That’s 8 players, and two who might not play much or at all.
Attendance was way down.
It’s totally reasonable; remains to be seen if it is accurate.
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
With Santana on the DL, do they get an insurance relief? Prob. not, but curious to know how that works.
kingman 26
11/17/2010-10:48am at 10:48 am (UTC -4)
Don’t know, but highly doubt they would get much on that sort of a contract for a pitcher who had previously had injuries.
stickguy
11/17/2010-11:13am at 11:13 am (UTC -4)
at least 2 of them, if not more, won’t (hopefully) be on the team next year.
Ceetar
11/17/2010-10:42am at 10:42 am (UTC -4)
I’m tired of unnamed officials. Which one is this now? name names. tired of the leaks.
kingman 26
11/17/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
Wright, Reyes, Bay, Beltran, KRod, Santana, Perez and Castillo eat up $111.5 million.
That’s eight guys, and maybe actually only 6 or 7 who will be on the team.
They have to make up a roster of 17–19 other guys. Sure some will be low-paid, but how could we expect them to add an additional $10–20 million?
Pagan and Iggy, $3 mil. Pelf and Dickey surely another $3 mil.
That’s almost $120 million on the first 12 players.
kistics
11/17/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
I think Pagan and Pelf would make at least $3M by themselves.
oleosmirf
11/17/2010-10:59am at 10:59 am (UTC -4)
not to mention our bullpen right now consists of 3 locks, K-Rod, Parnell, Acosta and Igarashi, Dessens (should they make the team). gotta pay the other bullpen guys and idk if we even have guys from the minors who can step in.
stickguy
11/17/2010-11:19am at 11:19 am (UTC -4)
BPs are supposed to be made on the cheap. there were a couple of interesting live arms in teh Met MiL system last season, and other than that, they will pick up some arms off the scrap pile to round it out.
I also have a feeling (just my gut) that Iggy is going to have a huge year next year.
Mr North Jersey
11/17/2010-10:46am at 10:46 am (UTC -4)
the quote speaks for itself the official said “I don’t know if we even have $5 million.” translation: they may have 50 million cause he just doesn’t know.
Someone make a Mr Met thermometer and use to track if the Mets add $5M in payroll.
TRS86
11/17/2010-11:29am at 11:29 am (UTC -4)
That is what I am saying too. An unnamed official says the Mets have an undisclosed amount to spend that might not be 5M. Wow, big news.
He could have said “How the hell should I know” and achieved the same result.
TRS86
11/17/2010-11:27am at 11:27 am (UTC -4)
And what official would that be? Also, couldn’t that quote be taken in many different ways? Couldn’t it also be that Sandy has not told him a damn thing about how much money they are willing to spend?
TRS86
11/17/2010-10:30am at 10:30 am (UTC -4)
Also as I have mentioned before I think Kyle Davies would be an excellent pickup from KC. Still young, still throws hard. Perhaps moving to Citi and the NL really starts to develop him.
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-10:31am at 10:31 am (UTC -4)
FA or via trade? If trade, elaborate on what it’ll take, as I’ve not put a thought towards Mr. Davies until now.
TRS86
11/17/2010-11:34am at 11:34 am (UTC -4)
Depends on if he is non-tendered. If he is not then it should not take any really good prospects to obtain him. Maybe something like an Evans and a mid-tier younger guy.
kingman 26
11/17/2010-10:35am at 10:35 am (UTC -4)
On Vince Coleman from Wikipedia:
He offended many baseball fans, the press and many African Americans in 1985 when he declared “I don’t know nothin’ about him. Why are you asking me about Jackie Robinson?” Responding to Coleman, Rachel Robinson, Jackie Robinson’s widow said, “I hope somehow he’ll learn and be embarrassed by his own ignorance.”
metsfan4decades
11/17/2010-10:51am at 10:51 am (UTC -4)
That’s just, well bad. And ignorant.
stickguy
11/17/2010-10:50am at 10:50 am (UTC -4)
Interesting question there redman.
Ollie of course has to be high on the list, just for the fan outrage factor (and the utter worthlessness for the 1st 2 years). Actually, Ollie has the distinction of actually adding negative value, in that the team would have been better if he did not exist. Talk about bringing nothing to the table.
Alou was not bad for the first shot. But as Omar sometimes did, it was resigning him that was the killer.
Bobby Bo of course was a winner.
And I think our man Bay is going to be high on this list too before it is over. A last parting gift of the Omar era. an aging guy with an albatross contract, clogging up the position that we actually have some prospects coming along to fill. Having his 16mill to spend this year on pitching and/or 2B, with a cheap platoon in LF, would make this team vastly better.
So, I will pick Bay!
stickguy
11/17/2010-11:18am at 11:18 am (UTC -4)
I am not putting any stock in the Sherman quote. 1st of all, it is Sherman tweeting, so of course he is going for th esensationalistic, and any facts checking (hell, facts) are irrelevant. Like I said yesterday, his source could be the janitor.
even taken on face value, it literally means that they don’t know what the budget is yet. Given the fact that the FO is brand new, and they are focues on putting the organizatin together and figuring out what exactly they got to work with, I would not be surprised if they haven’t set a firm budget yet.
So, the might not have $1 to work with. Or might have $20mill to spend. Of the Wilpons might have just spent a ton of maoney on expensive FO minds, and are now going to tell them to cut payroll by 20%.
If Alderson comes out in public and says they aren’t rasing payroll back to last years level (meaning more than $5mill to spend), then I might believe it!
TRS86
11/17/2010-11:33am at 11:33 am (UTC -4)
Agreed Stick. I was hoping these unamed officials with blind quotes stuff would stop. If I was Alderson every time one of these came out I would release a statement saying, “The reporter’s sources are incorrect and I can assure you that whom ever that official is they have no clue what my plans are.”
GravediggerHebner
11/17/2010-11:40am at 11:40 am (UTC -4)
I share a birthday with Vince Coleman so there’s that. Went to Busch Stadium in the summer of ’93 to see the visiting Mets play the Cards. Wore a Mets t-shirt, sat in the upper reaches in the LF corner, the St. Louis fans lived up to the generalization of the kind Midwesterner there were very friendly. They joined me in a chant of “Firecracker firecracker sis boom bah, Vince Coleman Vince Coleman rah rah rah!” and we all laughed and consumed numerous Anheuser-Busch products.
So based on that moment in time I can’t call Coleman the worst signing. By some statistical measures Coleman was more productive than Roger Cedeno for example.
Plus I don’t have the skills necessary to make a financial comparison (1993 dollars to 2009 dollars if you will).
So for me the big winner (read: loser) is Oliver Perez. 3 years, $36 million, and so far he has provided a 3-9 record with a 6.81 ERA, a WHIP of 1.985 and a K/BB ratio of 0.99.
It’s possible that if I did lots of research I’d find someone who provided less than that but after looking at those numbers I don’t feel like I have to look any further. I’d like to think if someone had been worse than that I’d remember.
Mr North Jersey
11/17/2010-11:48am at 11:48 am (UTC -4)
I think in Mets history you will be hard pressed to find a pitcher earning the equivalent for their time what Ollie did this season and provide less than ollie did for the Mets this season.
kingman 26
11/17/2010-11:52am at 11:52 am (UTC -4)
Pedro is definitely nowhere near Ollie in any way, but he very well might occupy 2nd place on the FA pitcher list.
Mr North Jersey
11/17/2010-12:24pm at 12:24 pm (UTC -4)
Kingy here is a link to a comparison chart between Oliver Perez and Pedro Martinez once they signed as a free agent.
Link
oleosmirf
11/17/2010-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
Pedro was also old and had a probably career ending injury. Perez has been a mess his whole career…
Mr North Jersey
11/17/2010-12:34pm at 12:34 pm (UTC -4)
yep but I think we are just lookin at what a pitcher did once they signed a contract with NY.
Obviously Martinez is a HOF pitcher compared to Ollie. when u look at their career.
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-11:59am at 11:59 am (UTC -4)
Benoit is off the board. three-year, $16.5MM deal to detroit.
kistics
11/17/2010-12:27pm at 12:27 pm (UTC -4)
Holy Cow!
kistics
11/17/2010-12:29pm at 12:29 pm (UTC -4)
Why??
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-12:35pm at 12:35 pm (UTC -4)
He posted a 1.34 ERA, 11.2 K/9, 1.6 BB/9, 0.9 HR/9, and 38.9% groundball rate in 60 1/3 innings
kistics
11/17/2010-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
But he’s a 33 year old setup guy with career 4.47 ERA.
I could possibly see 1/$5.5, but a 3 year deal with incentive to add $1M more per year!! Gees.
It’s going to be a long off-season for GMs and relievers.
I bet you could’ve signed Kerry Woods for that kind of money.
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
agreed!
oleosmirf
11/17/2010-12:41pm at 12:41 pm (UTC -4)
unless your name is Mariano Rivera you cant repeat those numbers consistently…
njstuckintx
11/17/2010-12:46pm at 12:46 pm (UTC -4)
I hear you.
The market is nuts. MLBTR stated it’s based on something similar to what Lyons got, which got me thinking that the Astros started regretting that deal about a month into it, as Lyon’s deal was based on him being the closer and he lost that position to Lidstrom real quick. I’m thinking unless the Met’s trade for some arms, there is going to be a lot of reclamations and noobies in the BP.