" He's my candidate - who is yours ?"
Sorry that I haven’t been around lately but with all the recent inactivity with the Mets , I took a short vacation with the wife to Long Island’s wine country. Of course while I was away round two of the Mets managerial search picked up steam with the call backs of Backman, Hale, Melvin and Collins. I reiterate that I will support whoever the Mets deem to be the right man to (hopefully) guide the Mets back on the winning path .
While these call backs were being conducted down in Orlando Florida, I started thinking about Mets managers through the years, and I wondered who truly was the worst Mets managers ever. Through the last 49 years the Mets have had 19 managers – 20 if you count whoever is announced on Tuesday. Of these 19 only six have had winning records, ( Hodges, Berra, Johnson, Valentine and Randolph) .
But in my opinion I have to give an exemption to another seven managers . These managers include Stengel, Parker, Westrum, McMillan, Frazier, Torre, and yes interim manager of seven games – Mike Cubbage. I feel that these men managed during times that the Mets were not expected to win. In the Case of the Mets first three managers, the team was constructed to get fans in the seats by bringing in marquee names that were past their prime, along with rookie players that were not ready for the big leagues. The next set of managers, ( McMillan, Frazier and Torre) were hired during a time of transition in the Mets front office. It was a time where M . Donald Grant took the reigns of the Mets finances and hamstrung the Mets general managers – by not allowing them to sign the top flight talent that were being made available in the newly organized free agent system. Grant also found it hard to part with a single penny when it came to give the talent on the Mets roster much deserved raises, which saw many a talented player either bolt the team or request to be traded, hence the Mets would become a laughing stock of the league. So yes I feel the Mets managers of the mid to late ’70′s deserve a pass.
So here are your candidates for the worst manager of all time.
George Bamberger ( ’82-’83) In two seasons and 208 games as the skipper of the Mets, Bamberger compiled a 81 -127 record which translated to a winning percentage of .389 . In George’s defense he came back to manage as a favor to then general manager, Frank Cashen. He would quit midway through the ’03 season.
Bamberger would be replaced by then hitting coach and Washington Senators hitting legend, Frank Howard. But unfortunately “Hondo” couldn’t get the team to win and in a half season at the helm of the Mets he went 52- 64 in 116 games which was good enough for a 0.448 winning percentage.
The next contestant – and in my opinion the worst Mets manager ever, Jeff Torborg. In his two years as Mets manager, Torborg managered 200 games , going 85 -115 which translates to a winning percentage of 0.425. Torborg’s laid back persona coupled with the fact that he was managing a team full of under performing superstars( Bonilla, Murray, Gooden, Saberhagen)would help seal his fate. He would be fired midway through the ’92 season, only to be replaced by our next contestant. Mr. Dallas Green.
Dallas Green was a fiery manager in every sense of the word. He came from the Billy Martin school of managing which courses included ” Getting into fights with players 101,” how to make a spectacle of yourself when being ejected by a umpire” and my personal favorite – ” How to berate up and coming rookie talent ” Needless to say Green would pilot the Mets for almost four years and in 512 for the Mets he would compile a record of 229 -283 , which was good enough for a 0.447 winning percentage.
Next up was ” Mr Sunshine” himse;f, Art Howe. Art Howe fell into the same pitfalls the Jeff Torborg did. He was very laid back and the talent on the Mets at the time underperformed for him. In his two seasons and 323 games for the Mets , Howe would compile a record of 137 -186 with a putrid winning percentage of 0.424.
That leaves us with the latest Mets managerial casualty, Jerry Manuel . In his two and a half seasons with the Mets, Manuel went 204- 213 with a winning percentage of 0.489 . Jerry was always quick with a joke whether the Mets won or lost, but he had a penchant for making in game blunders, overusing his bullpen, under utilizing his starting pitching and the occasional punishing players who didn’t seem like they deserved to be in his dog house .
I am throwing Willie Randolph’s 3 and half year stats as Mets manager out there, and I will dare anybody to tell my how he was a bad manager . In 555 games as manager, Willie Randolph went 302- 253 and a winning percentage of 0.544. Willie’s fatal flaw was that he was not well equipped to handle the New York media which bred his mistrust and subsequent paranoia. His playing the race card a few weeks before his firing didn’t help his case either.
So who do you think was the Mets all time worst manager? there are plenty of candidates, so make your case.
And with that said…. HERE COMES THE INFAMY !!!!!
Mets alumni celebrating birthdays today are :
Possibly the best hitting coach the Mets have ever had – Tom McCraw is 69 today (1941) .
On and off Mets utilityman from from the ’80 – ’87,Bill Almon is 58 (1952) .
Mets second baseman from the ’92 season,Dick Schofield is 48 (1962) .
Relief pitcher from ’99, Dan Murray is 37 (1973) .
New York Mets signed free agent relief pitcher, Tom Hausman of the Milwaukee Brewers on November 21, 1977. It was the Mets first free agent the Mets had ever signed.
The Pittsburgh Pirates signed relief pitcher, Andy Hassler of the New York Mets as a free agent on November 21, 1979.
The Oakland A’s signed spot starter/ middle reliever, Dave Telgheder of the New York Mets as a free agent on November 21, 1995.
New York Mets signed free agent outfielder, Steve Bieser of the Montreal Expos on November 21, 1996.
And don’t forget, there are just 131 days until the Mets open the 2011 season against the Florida Marlins in Miami.and just 138 days until the Mets 2011 home opener against the Washington Nationals at Citi Field.
Mo Vaughn has taken up animal husbandry during the offseason !
19 comments
Ceetar
11/21/2010-7:52am at 7:52 am (UTC -4)
Manuel, easily. But I don’t have any real personal experience with most of the others. Howe’s teams had a downward momentum of suckitude that I don’t think anyone could’ve stopped. Manuel’s teams were teetering on the edge, and he sunk them like a boulder.
rustyjr
11/21/2010-8:26am at 8:26 am (UTC -4)
All though I agree with you – Torborg was a exercise in futiity
fongy2
11/21/2010-10:28am at 10:28 am (UTC -4)
I vote for Bambi who was retired, didn’t want to be here in the first place
took the contract and money, was disinterested and bailed-out soon
thereafter.
oleosmirf
11/21/2010-10:32am at 10:32 am (UTC -4)
it seems like Willie (and Manuel too) was undermined by the front office. For that reason I will give both, especially Willie, the benefit of the doubt. I wonder how Willie would have done without Omar and co meddling with the clubhouse…
fongy2
11/21/2010-10:44am at 10:44 am (UTC -4)
Agreed Oleo! Plus, while we were alldisapointed both Willie and
Jerry had some success. Torre can easily be excused b/c he was
a fading player trying to be a rookie MGR with no experience at
all AND trying to MGR a team full of other flawed,fading players.
Torborg was awful BUT he had a real bad mix of players.
Howe was awful as well but had few players, so………
Happy B-day Dickey Schofeld….Uncle of Jason Werth…..Wish he
was a Met!…..And wasn’t it Bieser who stole home to win one of those early Met-Yankee games in Shea in ’97 or ’98???
rustyjr
11/21/2010-10:47am at 10:47 am (UTC -4)
You may be right
stickguy
11/21/2010-10:54am at 10:54 am (UTC -4)
Well, after al the ragging, I gotta go with Jerry!
I can’t remember the details of all the older guys, and who managed which teams. And I also don’t look at the record, given how little talent some guys had to work with. So, if a team played hard for a guy and just lost do to general suckitude, he gets a pass.
My 2nd will be Dallas Green. I do remember just not liking him at all.
fongy2
11/21/2010-11:21am at 11:21 am (UTC -4)
I was never a Jerry fan BUT remember that at the A.S. Break,
despite a rusty Reyes, nothing from Ollie&Maine, Little from Bay,
no Beltran, etc…We were a solid contender.
stickguy
11/21/2010-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
then he blew it!
I just couldn’t stand his style, and blame him for a lot of the losses and problems.
And fresh wounds always hurt the most.
Ceetar
11/21/2010-11:30am at 11:30 am (UTC -4)
and again he managed a winning situation into the ground.
kingman 26
11/21/2010-1:51pm at 1:51 pm (UTC -4)
Very tough and excellent question. But Casey has to be the answer.
Good arguments could be made for Howe, Bamberger or Torborg, but to me, Howe, Torborg and Jerry Manuel managed groups of players who were just uninterested in winning. Bamberger’s teams were a year or two away.
The Bonilla/Saberhagen/Coleman/Murray group was the worst group of cretins to soil the orange and blue.
Howe’s teams were just plain mediocre and apathetic.
Last year’s team could care less about hustling and winning.
Really good question Rusty.
Although I was born in 1966, I have to go with Stengel. He might have been great with the loaded Yankee teams of the 50s, but before and after that he was a loser and a buffoon for three other teams. He slept on the job while his four Met teams were the laughingstock of the game. Wes Westrum took over in 1966, and the only real changes were Cleon and Grote playing every day–this was before any of the late 60s pitchers were there or had an impact–and the team won 16 more games; the 66 wins in 1966 was by far their best total yet.
Stengel was a frigin buffoon and a joke. A VERY poor man’s Joe Torre—won when he had by far the best talent in the sport, and finished last or close to it every damn year in his other three managerial jobs. A chimp of average intelligence could have managed the Mantle/Berra/Ford Yanks to all those titles.
Definitely the worst manager in Met history.
rustyjr
11/21/2010-1:56pm at 1:56 pm (UTC -4)
Wow – neutral kong
rustyjr
11/21/2010-1:57pm at 1:57 pm (UTC -4)
*brutal
kingman 26
11/21/2010-2:08pm at 2:08 pm (UTC -4)
LOL!
Well, first off, I hope you had a great vacation.
The idea of Stengel as this cute little smurf on the bench doesn’t work for me. I think he was a joke. Yeah, he had poor talent, but look at those records the first four years–I mean, they were ridiculous!
I am guessing he did absolutely nothing but snooze on the bench, and his personality and past history as Yankee manager distracted the press from what a useless manager he was.
rustyjr
11/21/2010-2:17pm at 2:17 pm (UTC -4)
lol i gave the first 3 managers a pass because of the lack of talent
kingman 26
11/21/2010-2:26pm at 2:26 pm (UTC -4)
Well, I honestly think this is a great question—all of your questions posed lately have been provocative and fun.
A great argument could be made for Torborg or Bamberger—if we indeed throw out Casey due to the truly rotten (lack of) talent he had.
Although Jerry overall could be in there too, considering that the team WAS good to very good immediately before his time, and was loaded with high-paid stars.
Howe was as apathetic as his players, and that team really was just sad, and was sad a year before Howe arrived.
I guess if Stengel is given a pass, I have to agree with you and go:
1) Torborg
2) Bamberger
3) Howe
4) Manuel
5) Harrelson
rustyjr
11/21/2010-2:35pm at 2:35 pm (UTC -4)
thats funny I wouldnt include bud on the list – did he lose the team ? Yes but he managed well enough before he was canned
gipperpdx
11/21/2010-2:43pm at 2:43 pm (UTC -4)
Bamberger or Howe.
Tie goes to Howe, as when Bamberger was managing, I was too young to care much beyond laughing at a guy whose name sounded like hamburger.
Howe was just a useless lump.
rustyjr
11/21/2010-2:44pm at 2:44 pm (UTC -4)
wow where have you been my conservative friend ?